The Empire is Recruiting, and we want YOU! Are you tired of all the Millie Hype? Feel Zygote is even more evil than the Evil Empire? Wonder how one model/tex map/hairpiece can cost nearly 25% of the program it's created for? Join us...we will crusade and the citidel of Madness will come crumbling down. VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!! -Darth_Logice

Sorry Darth, Yes, I am no fan of Millie. But Zygote is in business for one reason, and hype is just a part of all that. My advise is if you like Millie buy her and show your support because you think the figure is great and worth it. Otherwise, stand your ground and don't give in to the hype and rush out and buy something you think could have been, or should have been, better. It all boils down to personal like and dislike. And that is the way it should be. If Zygote puts out a product that falls short of their hype than let loss of sales and customer dissatisfaction show that. Maybe they will get the message. Maybe not. But that is what makes business, business. Power to the people and all that. Cheers, Rob

Well, I wish they would have made her more resonably priced. 60 bucks is kinda much to pay for a new model. I can see them charging that if they gave her morphs and a T-Map. I mean they should have released her as a freebie, or dirt cheapy, and then sell her with the morphs, hair, T-map, and maybe some clothing for the 100. Like they did the Tess model, or the CompuGuy. Even if she's free for a week. That'd be nice. Nick

To say what has been touched upon very little. Go out and price a hi-res female model from any of the other major 3D suppliers. $60 is a very fair price, in the 3D world. And if you could find one of this quality (this inexpensive) you'd have to make that model posable, and if you want them to do it ..more money. We have been spoiled by all the freebies we DO get. I think it will be a split decision. Some will get and use her some will not. And niether should hate the other. James

Ah, but James, you don't realize one simple fact. Zygote is getting tons of sells on this model. They could easily do more with it, period. I'm sure the people around here will take the initiative and create morphs, and that's probably what zygote was planning on. Don't bother doing the work, somebody else'll just do it for free, anyway, and everybody'll be happy. But why should the cool people around here have to do it for free when the company is reaping all the rewards? I think it's lame. And I agree we do have it good around here. There are some nice people who give some great stuff away. But that doesn't mean someone else should be allowed to do nothing and get rich(er).

Hmmm... Compared to other 3D software Millie is cheap. This is true. But it's not a statement that she's well priced. Rther that the 3D world is absurdly priced. Compare the top Apps in several different fields and you'll find 3D software is anywhere from 3 to 10 times more expensive. I for one cannot find any excuse for the price of 3DS-Max other than what they've managed to get away with so far. The problem we have is that while Poser is still and expensive app on the general market; it's dirt cheap for a 3D app. Millie is expensive compared to what you get in Poser; which is itself expensive. But Millie is cheap compared to what other 3D vendors try to push. Personally, I think the $60 should have been the regular price, not the sale. And the sale something like 20-30... That would have made her almost make sense in comparision to the price of Poser.

Sixty dollars is a lot of money. If I'm going to spend that, I'm going to buy their eagle since no one else has made an eagle or raven model for us poor people. Victoria is not as pretty in my opinion as the standard P4 figure. The only thing going for her is the imporved joints. I might be tempted to by the male version, but then there's the problem of no clothing for either her or the male. And it's hard enough to get male clothing from our dear modelers!

I would like to point out a few things here. There is a very simple reason why 3D Studio Max, Alias Wavefront Maya, Nichimen Mirai, Softimage 3D, and Lightwave 3D among others, cost about 20 times what Poser does. You can create super realistic special effects and characters, incorporate then into million dollar movies, and make a fortune. Poser has in no way such capabilities and has a very limited rendering engine. Don't get me wrong, I love playing with Poser 4 and I do a lot of web graphics and fantasy art paintings with it, but I know the difference and reason for the prices of the high end softwares.

On the Millie issue. Think about this. Even though the poser 4 nude woman that comes with poser 4 comes with a pretty good set of morphs the tallented modellers of this community still made hundreds of new ones. This will probably repeat itself with Millie as she gets arround. Take advantage of the sale price and save some money. There are morphs showing up in freestuff already and $60 for Victoria is a great price.

I think I might as well throw my opinion in here. I'm not buying millie for several reasons: First, I never buy models unless I really need them (which so far has yet to happen.) Second, $60 is way too much for me even if they threw in the hair, tex, morphs, clothes, etc. Third, from what I've heard, she's not even living up to be as great as everyone hoped, save for the beautiful expressions she can make. Seems like Zygote's either getting lazy or greedy... charging too much for something that's either not done or not up to par... I also agree with the point that while we do have several talented modellers and morphers and mappers here doing things for free, that's no reason for Zygote to neglect such things assuming that others will satisfy everyone's desires. Oh well.. doesn't really look like I've said anything new.. just formed them into my own set of views. Rosh

Sorry, but what it boils down to is, you don't like the price, you're welcome to either buy another product or not use it. All, I repeat, all professional software is priced significantly higher than consumer software. If you don't believe me, look up the price of AutoCAD, Catia, Pro-E, or Oracle. It costs that much because it is much harder to develop then conventional software, and it is intended for only a small percentage of computer users, namely professionals, those who use it to make money. Considering how much money an average movie makes, Maya, Softimage, Lightwave, and Max are very reasonably priced. There is a reason why a GT2 category race car costs ten times more then a Toyota Camry. I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. As for Millie, I will not buy her because she's not worth 60 bucks to me, not because charging that much is somehow unfair.

I was looking forward to this model, because of the higher poly count and the improved joints. That's why I am so disappointed with what was released. In my opinion, it is very incomplete. Zygote has to realize that the default Poser4 Nude Female is the standard the new figure would be compared to. They inovated in a couple areas, but fell way short in others. Why? Not because it would be difficult, but because it would be less profitable. The problem is, by not doing the standard Morphs to match Poser 4, they will be loosing sales from a lot of people who otherwise would have bought the new figure. AND, they have sufficiently alienated me, as a consumer, so that they will have to work twice as hard in the future to convince me to buy anything from them. Some have questioned Victoria's looks, or lack there of, while others like that she looks less than perfect. It would be a moot point if you could customize her look the way you can with the default PF Fem. Instead of creating a product that would have appeal for the broadest range of customers, by including a good selection of morphs, they have created one that has much more limited appeal. The "reduced" initial price is just driving people to buy a figure they likely would not otherwise, in it's current state, just because it is going to be so much more expensive down the road. Many are buying purely on potential. It's a catch 22 for many here, buy it now while it's cheaper and almost useless, or wait and see what develops in the community to make her useful, and pay $100 at that point. In the short term, this strategy will work for Zygote. However, they are going to end up with a lot of very unhappy people on their hands as a result of all this. I know myself well enough that if I had shelled out $60 for her, and a month from now she still was useless to me, I'd be very angry and feel more than a little dumb. It's likely there are going to be some who, a month from now, are going to feel just that way over this. It's a shame. There was a need in the market that needed to be filled, and Zygote blew it... Fiontar

Um, I can't Spell (Points to the headline where it should say "Anti" not "Anit". Oops. Allie had the best idea: make a counter figure. The Empire's Resistance movement is all about that. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to help much in that department (Though, I do seem to have a knack for making things with way too many vertices.) I'm not calling for a Zygote Boycott, but I am against this whole Millie thing. You know, I'd be happy with a figure that was basically the same but with better elbows...one where all the existing stuff would still work. I don't know, I'm a novice where modelling is concerned. But Zygote's tactics sicken me and so do the first wave of demo pics I've seen of this not-quite-ready-for-sideshow Millenium woman of theirs. If she represents the new millenium, then let me live in the past. -Darth_Logice

I agree with you, Darth and Allie: A counter figure will be the best solution, for several reasons: 1. Everyone in the community can do his/her best to add to the figure. 2. We can focus on solving our well-known problems, not being dependant on some marketing guy who will tell us what is worth doing. 3. We can continuously enhance the figure. 4. It will be for FREE!!! I'm using Poser as a hobby, and I'm NOT going to buy any models unless I urgently need to. Some logistic questions are yet to be solved: 1. Who can coordinate the project? A web site with a progress report would be great. 2. Who can host the files that the team members are providing? 3. Can we join existing models together? (Evolution woman, real eyes, etc.) 4. What about the clothing? Will we still be able to use the (lots of) P4Fem clothing? Do we have to modify their settings (umph)? Do we have to create entirely new clothes (arrgghh)? Maybe we should start a new thread on this one...

i'm courious about what zygote is going to release next and i wonder if it'd be a morph package with exactly the things we're missing and i bet we'd have to spend a lot of bucks for it! if you modify the millie model and post a pz3 character in freestuff, would that be illegal ? or one way to keep zygote from makeing money with everyone now buying the new model ? -Ede

oh, and what about clothes ? we're not all going to buy loads of clothes for her, are we ? i hope there's a way of using the old clothes pretty soon! -Ede

Ede if anyone creates a character with her or any of her body parts etc, and uploads her to the fun stuff they would have to encode the character with objaction mover so only the people who owned her could use the character.. As for cloths, well we have some very talented cloths makers here on the forum that offer up stuff free all the time.. In fact I usually prefer their cloths over many of Zygote cloths sometimes..If they don't then I'll buy her cloths from Zygote when they come out or make my own hopefully which I'm learning right now with my Cinama 4.. It will take time but I'm sure Vickie will have her day ... =) She's a new toy for all the texture artist, modelers and morph magic makers to tinker with.. Considering Poser 4 chick has got everything a Poser girl almost needs right now, Vickie is a whole new ball game and a fun challenge for many of the artist here, I'm sure.. A think a little boredom has set in of late and Vickie has got some of us interested and busy again.. You just have to be an artist and have a vision .... =) As for boycotting her well, I'm one of the earlier buyers and not dissatisfied with her yet, but I have 30 days to decide then I can return her for a full refund and I would if I didn't like her for any reason.. Not sure how they do that but it's Zygote's Guarantee.. Simply put, I don't think anyone should feel pressured in buying her but I also don't think anyone should make the ones who did buy her feel stupid they did.. It's seems like the ones who don't own her are the one who are complaining the most.. Seems like it anyways.. I'm happy so far and excited over the potential.. Even if one thing wasn't created for her I'd use her, but I'm still using my Poser 4 gal too.. I think lots of people are afraid the Poser 4 gal will get buried and be forgotten.. I doubt that will happen... But it might.. Who knows at this point .. I don't.. My mom says if you wanna find something wrong with anything you'll find it because ain't nuttin' perfect.. ~Cindy

As I recall, in P4 all the ethnic and other morphs were included in the marketing for Poser--Zygote didn't do that marketing--and probably didn't make those decisions--just made the models. I don't think Zygote has marketed any of their other models with morphs (I could be wrong). However, it really comes down to--buy it or not. I thought the eagle was expensive, but it is a wonderful model. I think calling a company greedy and evil for doing what they do is silly, Darth. $60 for this model is not exhorbitant, IMO, compared to lots of other filter packages and other small graphic apps available. And as for 'zillions of sales'--if every Poser owner bought this model, it still wouldn't be 'zillions'. The texture was priced separately also. You don't have to buy the texture. Textures are going to be readily available and, as a novice, I've already proven it isn't hard to adapt the P4 textures to her. As an aside--if I don't like her within 30 days, I can get my money back--its in writing on their site. Diane B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

True there are no morphs for Millie, nor are there any conforming clothes, and the only texture map is one you have to buy, ditto for the hair. All of these are a bit of a bummer :( BUT.... How long is it before the knack of conforming clothes is discovered? There are already boots available for Millie courtesy of f91 - thanks f91. bushi and rtamesis already have morphs out for Millie and sbesalke is working on them too. And you've got to know that Traveler - the great god of Morph himself - is working on these. Diane has proven that the P4 textures can be adapted to Millie and I would guess that new textures for her will be along fairly quickly. The standard hair (from what I understand) simply needs repositioning and rescaling slightly, so we can use Allie's wonderful curls, Kozoburo's transmapped hair, Darth's Spiral Perm, Ian Grey's Hair 5 and all the other excellent styles - all of which are freely available. I'm going to be looking at the eyes very carefully when I get Millie home. If they're excellent, then there's no problem. If they're merely good, I'll be unlimbering CR2Editor and looking to replace them with bushi's excellent RealEyes. Remember, there are people out there who discovered how to simulate gravity in Poser 4, how to make volumetric water, and how to do lens flares. Paul

One thing to remember when criticizing the "dual pricing" on Victoria - the Dragon was released this way too (List Price 94.95, debuted for, IIRC 59.95), and it now sells for slightly less than they claimed (79.95, last time I checked). IIRC, Zygote was planning to release a bunch of free "extras" for Victoria (morphs, clothes, hair)and then bundle it all together on a single CD, perhaps with the Millenium Man (Victor?)... Now, I could never bring myself to pay $60 for Victoria alone, but I'd come up with about $120 for both figures with props easily enough - even if he turns out as bland as she is!

Have anyone of you created a working model? I just made a crude robot (can't really mess that up, if I did it was a 'feature') using 3d studio max and it took a good 2 weeks. After I was done with the transmaps, bump maps, reflections maps, and texture maps it was 2 12 weeks. I added all the joints in stuff in Poser and named all the parts so the stander poses will work...3 weeks. It took a total of 3 weeks to complete this model and if anyone wants it they should pay for the convince of not making it themselves. The pricing is very fair, and I belive it's that low because they can sell 1000's of models at that price. It's like the Gas Prices......Oh no gas is going up I can't drive my cars....in other countrys gas is $5 a gallion. Is $.50 really going to hurt you that bad?

I agree with those who mentioned they would only buy her if they NEED her. I gave in to the weakness when Tess came out. I think she might have been around $39 or so, not a lot in comparison to Victoria, but I think I only used her one time, and I don't even have her installed now. A waste of my money. It was a tempting character because she came with the posable outfit already on her and she had different hair (and I might add, the hair came with her, and a separate hair prop to use on other characters, as well), but she ended up useless for me. I'm really having a hard time justifying buying Victoria for this reason. I don't really NEED her. I keep wavering back and forth on buying this figure, but I'm strongly leaning in the direction of not buying her. She might become a white elephant later on. Can't even use her for a door stop if she becomes useless. I think I could put my $60 to better use somewhere else. I'd much rather add $20 and buy the dragon I've drooled over for so long, but have thusfar resisted because of the $79 price tag. I think I'd get much more use out of that instead. Melanie

Not to change the subject (I did buy Vicki and I have no regrets)but Melanie, you might want to consider getting Konan's Ultimate Dragon instead. It's half the price and just as good, if not better.

Melanie, exactly!.. I think if you believe you'll have no use for her then why buy her? .. People shouldn't buy a model if they feel as though this isn't what they want or need.. I bought her because of some complex poses I like to do that just doesn't cut it with the standard possette so I've trashed some very interesting images because of it.. Goin' into Photoshop and repainting and stamping all over the place gets boring.. I'm not ditching P4 babe at all but for the more complex and intricate pose images I do I'll use Vickie and most definitely for the extreme close ups too.. She almost flawless close up.. I know we often get overly excited about anything new here only to get burned out really quick but Vicky will be part of my collection that will meet special needs for those special pictures.. I'll probably never buy the Zygote Dragon only cause I'm not really into that kind of imagery but it doesn't mean it's not worth the cost just it's not worth it to me... ~Cindy

I really can't believe this... Zygote spent months developing a model. They put it up for sale and say, essentially, "Buy the model and sell the images you make with it and we don't care." $60.00 is a STEAL. Try buying a music CD, re-interpret the work and re-record it yourself, then see what happens when you try to sell your recording. There will be a flock of lawyers on you VERY quickly. You would need to pay thousands in licensing fees to do this, if you could do it at all. Has anyone here ever dealt with licensing?? You're not buying the model. You're buying the right to use it and profit from it, without having to pay royalties to the creator. As a filmmaker, getting rights to use images and music is a time-consuming and expensive part of my business. These rights, once paid for (much more than $60, I assure you) are only one-time rights. Zygote is giving perpetual rights for only $60. I know, many Posers are not going to make money with the images they make. But, look at it from Zygote's point of view... If they sold this model for $20, and required separate licensing for for-profit use, they would lose out BIG TIME. There would be rampant copyright violations, and there would be little Zygote could do to stop it. By charging $60, everyone gets perpetual rights to sell images made with the model, and Zygote needs not worry about chasing down violations of their copyright. People who think $60 is too much really don't have a clue how the professional marketplace works. Nor have they tried to make a living with their artwork. If someone wants to buy and use something I make, for profit, without paying royalties... they're going to pay bigger up front. This goes for rendered artwork, photographs, original music, film footage... whatever. And, to those complaining that Poser is expensive... wow... buy some software with REAL capabilities and you're really in for a shock. Poser has 1/10 the capabilities of ElectricImage, and is therefore about 1/10 the price. It's a simple economic issue: If Millie is worth $60 to you, then buy her. If she's not, don't. Where's the problem? Now that I've ranted... I'm not planning to purchase Millie, simply because I have no need for her. I do, however, defend Zygote's right to charge what the market will bear. If too many people feel that she's too expensive for what she offers, and they vote with their wallets, the price will come down. Don't plan on it, though. -sk

Hmmm. Go to BIOMECHANIX. There is a anime character there on the site. The character was used in a magazine story on the body type of the future. I d/l'd the sketches that was used to develop the character for inspiration and comparison to the images of the rendered model. (That's a story for another time). The model is $600.00. As much as I liked the look, $600.00??? I don't think so. You could by 10 Victorias now (6 when the introductory price goes away). I think I'm gonna pick up this model. Here is the thing: It's your credit card and only YOU can enter the authorization....