Since CL will be selling P5 at a reduced price, have they announced whether us pre-ordering people will get a refund for the difference in price? It may only be $10 per person, but that's $10 that I could have saved if I had waited 2 months. With the economy the way it is, every little bit of money that I can save, helps. Sure, CL may lose thousands of dollars by issuing refunds, but how much will they lose (in customer service and reputation) if they don't do it? Or will CL be treating their loyal, pre-ordering, customers shoddily and thumb their noses by saying "No refund"? And, please, CL, we do not want a "$10 discount coupon on your next order"- some of us think this kind of thing will happen again: we pre-order something, get a buggy copy, and then the price is reduced.

think of 10$ as a learning fee: never preorder, never buy a x.0 version.

I'm not going to dwell on it, or the fact that lots of programs I paid for ended up free on some magazine cover. Just letting it go....releasing it to the winds....not thinking about it at all.....fly....be free....arrrrrggghhh!!!!!!!! lol Marque

Hey JohnRender, Go ahead. Hold your breath for that refund. I dare ya. I think you really answered your own questions with "CL be treating their loyal, pre-ordering, customers shoddily and thumb their noses by saying "No refund" I share your feelling of betrayal. I illustrate my faith in their product by snapping it up quick. It's more than my faith, it's my support. Then, whammo. How would all you non-early buyers who really weren't willing to unass the gidas like a little discount incentive. But, that's business I guess. Regards, Brent

Curious Labs needed money, we provided it by pre-ordering. We did a favor to them (and knew we would get a buggy program) but to help support them we ordered ahead of time. Curious Labs should give a cash refund to those who pre-ordered or $20+ for the Content Paradise if it ever opens. If CL does not do this, I will be buying more from DAZ then Curious Labs.

The fact that you ordered early gurantees you ONLY that - that you would receive the product first or shortly after release. It guarantees you nothing else. Curios Labs does not owe you a refund because they dropped their price several weeks after release. That is not how the software market works for ANY company. Deal with it and get over it. If $10 means that much to you, you probably should not have purchased P5 in the first place. Furthermore, you should take this up with CL, not in this forum. They do have official means to communicate with them, of which this forum is not one of them. They do check it periodically, but they are not required to do so. and you are not guaranteed a response by posting here. - Ray

I think under the circumstances that it would be fair for CL to offer free content for the people who preordered P5 and additional content for helping iron out the bugs in the bug parade. That would equate with good customer service. Now we just need content paradise to come on line.

Oh, C'mon. You've never bought something and have it go on sale at a later date? I really hope you guys weren't serious about the refund.

Any price reduction after less than a month and a half after the release date with no refund would make me a little angry. Add to that that we wound up alpha and beta testing the software and I get VERY irate. CL owes us compensation. $10 per person isn't much, $10 for everyone is enough to make Mike and Vicky face room ready, and to pay for the coding to change the default size to 2000X2000 on textures. I expect compensation of some kind. I'll take it in content or new features. I think we should come up with a list and post it here as to what compensation would be acceptable. When we come up with a list after a week or so, lets all forward the URL to it to CL. Officially. And ask. That at least will start the negotiations.

"$10 for everyone is enough to make Mike and Vicky face room ready, and to pay for the coding to change the default size to 2000X2000 on textures." Makes perfect sense to me. Bump those textures up into the three grand range and we may have something here. Even higher would be better with user selectibility for different rendering situations. Many have said the face room is nothing more than a toy the way it stands now...I'd have to agree. Mike, Vicky, Steph, and all new Daz models(V3) having compatibility in the face room is a must. Compensation for me could include free dog and cat models. A new program CD once everything is solid would help as well. In the future I hope we never have to unwittingly become beta testers again. This has been a trying experience for many; not all, but many. On a related topic, I just recieved a notice from Rhino that beta testing will commence for version 3. Anyone with version 2.0 wishing to beta test version 3.0 is invited to download(for free) beta version 3.0. The message also states: "we are looking forward to your feedback".

It is one thing for an older version of a piece of software to be given away free with a magazine or for a price reduction after a significant amount of time has passed. I'm a little annoyed that I can't even render an AVI file correctly with the program and that I could have gotten the program cheaper now. If Poser 5 didn't have any major problems when it was released, the price drop would annoy me but not as much as it currently does.

god! this thread is still in poser forum? i think jeffh is finaly asleep... ;]P

Good one aleks. On a strange note, a person got booted out of renderosity yesterday for reposting a thread that probably should have stayed in Poser forum( it was an apology), especially considering the many threads that remained behind. This thread should obviously stay because it is discussing aspects of Poser. But what seems obvious to me...(note to self..copy before posting...Damn server).

a super hero wrote: "Curious Labs should give a cash refund to those who pre-ordered or $20+ for the Content Paradise if it ever opens." I see a lot of misconceptions going on regarding Content Paradise, as it was explained to me a few months ago. Now mind you part of it might have changed some (who knows what they are doing anymore)... but Content Paradise is NOT a store... but a search engine. It is designed to allow users to search the Renderosity Market Place, Runtime DNA store and Turbo Squid store from one place, rather than going to each individual site. You go to Content Paradise type in "Tree" and it will search all of those stores for items with the word "tree" in the keyword area and list them all. Once you find the product that you want, and click on it, it takes you to that website's store so you can continue with your purchase. Think of it like the YahooStore.com, not an individual store. CL won't be supporting the products, the individual stores will be. The products will be the same products on Renderosity and the other sites, only now you can search and order them from within Poser 5. In other words, don't hope that CL will be offering refunds through Content Paradise, since they don't own the stores or products. Now they might contact some of those stores and ask for a way to offer a "gift certificate", that is possible. Jack

Actually, don't hope that Curious Labs will give refunds at all. They are unable to extend this discount to people who have previously purchased. Live and learn.

Unable? Why not? Money considerations? They have a profitable parent company and a legal obligation. Frankly, I don't want the stinking $10. I want my compensation to be in the way of content. We'd get a lot more bang for the buck that way. And if money is the issue, then I bet they could get a nice discount with Daz, or Phil C, or Dacourt, or here for that matter, for buying in bulk. Or they can improve the shipped models to an acceptable level. CL stands to lose a lot more in good faith than this will cost them.

I pre-ordered Poser 5. Before I ordered it I weighed the price, against my desire to have Poser 5 as early as possible. I decided it was worth it. I knew it would be buggy. In fact, I haven't had as many problems as I expected. (Maybe from my experience with World Builder). Today I feel that CL owes me nothing. I chose to purchase the program at the asking price. It was worth that much to me then, and still is. If I felt it was worth less, I would have waited to see if the price came down. I seem to remember a Bible story (from those days I was made to go to Sunday school many, many, years ago) where these workers started early in the morning for an agreed amount. Late in the day more workers showed up and got the same amount. The people that had worked all day were very angry. The Master said, "Why are you angry? It is what you agreed on." There is a message to be learned here. I am not going to explain the message, because it needs to be discovered by each individual. I think it is a message that is needed at this time in history. Try and learn it. You made YOUR decision. Be happy living with it!

Whenever CL sneezes, a lot of people seem to catch pneumonia.

It's something in the air, I think.

Meanwhile, things are fine on Apollo 9............

exactly, rwilliams. I made the decision, you made the decision, etc. Sure, I get a little upset when I buy a DVD the first week and it's two dollars a few weeks later, but I got the product when I wanted it. I get over it. I mean really...it's $10.

I suspect what upsets some people is not just that the price drop, but that Curious Labs said that pre-ordering would get them the best deal and the price would go up after release. But perhaps I'm just remembering wrong. I'm very scatterbrained.

Hey, guys... didn't you just get "atmosphere" as an ADDED feature FREE with the second SR? And it wasn't through extortion either, but because CuriousLabs wanted to give you something extra. Maybe getting something at the point of a sword makes you feel more powerful? :shake head: Carolly

I signed up with TurboSquid a long time ago.

I took one look at their prices, and I never went back.

I took one look at the price of P5 (upgrade), and thought that it was a great deal.

I still do.

I'm happy with what I got for $129.

i am happy too... and I paid over $800 AU...

"Curious Labs needed money".....and to those naive people who think they won't go out of business and leave us hanging with a product we can't use.....:>0

"Hey, guys... didn't you just get "atmosphere" as an ADDED feature FREE with the second SR?"

Unless I read wrong, Atmosphere was already possible, they just made it easier to do.

Larry "sneaked" it in there. Atmosphere was added.

Face it... CL could give a rats ass about their customers anymore. It started with the copy protection... and it kept going downhill.... where will it stop?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!...um....wow.... Man oh man....some folks fell for this stuff real big time...sheesh (running off to make my own balls now.......).........;-)

{I seem to remember a Bible story } Here's a better comparision: A man sees a computer that will be sold soon so he pre-orders it. The compnay immediately bills him even though the computer won't ship for 2 months. He doen't mind, he wants the computer. Well, it finally ships, but it's missing a sound card. Okay, so the sound doesn't play. And his joystick doesn't work because the USB plug is messed up. He "benchmarks" his computer and finds it's not as fast as the ad promised. Okay, he downloads a "fix". It doesn't solve all the problems, but he can use it to do basic things. Now, 2 months after he got the computer, the company is advertising a faster model (that's fixed) for a lower price. Now, how would you feel? You pre-order something (on the faith of the company), only to get a pre-beta copy, and then see the price drop for people to get a new, post-beta copy? As for "atmosphere" being added, I only have one thing to say: Fix the existing bugs before adding new features! I don't care if it was "easy to implement", how about correcting problems that have been there since P4! It would be nice if someone from CL would answer this question... but I suppose their silence means that they have no intention of giving any kind of refund (money or content) to the pre-ordering people.

Much better analogy.

The response I got last week when I asked about getting a $10 refund: "Unfortunately, we are unable to extend this discount to people who have previously purchased. This is a limited time sale and we will be unable to offer you any refund at this time. ************************************** Tori Nichelle Porter Product Development Specialist Beta Goddess Curious Labs Inc."

I would rather have seen poser 4 and the probundle pack at a reduced rate. I preordered, full price, now its' $10 cheaper. CL clearly stated that pre-orders were a reduced rate and that they would raise the price (estimated street price $500). I only have Poser 5. I own lightwave and cant get poser 5 into lightwave. Now I have to buy poser4 and the pro bundle and they have RAISED the price of poser 4 pro bundle. I know eventually it will work out. but I'm stuck. Mac people are stuck on poser 4 for now. EULA issues, blah blah the list goes on. I thought I was buying a good peice of software, and I still believe that it is. However, the plugin issue for Vue4, Max, Lightwave, Cinema 4d, this is a big market and CL isnt even addressing this. Soon. great. I have bought something that sits on the shelf and has ZERO use in my production. If the plugin architecture worked like poser 4, and they said new features for the plugins would be coming soon, I'd have a peice of software that I could use, just like poser 4 people do. Instead I have to now buy the older software, and don't get an upgrade price. I don't forsee 3rd party plugin support until after the Mac version is released, thats just me. Sorry for the rant, but I DO feel hurt by purchasing a version at a specifyed price, being told this is the cheapest way to get the software, only to find out that this isnt the case. I think they call that fraud actually. So I use my other software until Poser 5 issues die down, and sit in the wings lurking. goes to the back of the class and puts on hat that says dunce

It would be nice if someone from CL would answer this question... but I suppose their silence means that they have no intention of giving any kind of refund (money or content) to the pre-ordering people.

It seems as though they only read messages when it's to their advantage. Any other time, they don't frequent the boards and e-mail should be used to contact them. ::shrugs:: Just my warped perception, though.

Just for the record (not that it really matters), the $10 price drop on Poser 5 that was a "limited time sale" is still going on. The lower price seems to have lasted longer than the pre-order price. On the upside, after moving to a new computer and installing the lastest patch for Poser 5, it is a lot more useable.