Quote - > Quote - Or they could just impliment something like this to start...

CG Skin

sure, its only another $195.00 added to the cost.

 You are looking at creating software as if it has the same cost per unit as other items like cars.  It costs so much to build each car.  On top of that you have the costs of designing it.  Then you ad your profit and you get your price. 

With software there is no or a negligible cost to building each software item sold.   People can download it.  So all you have to do is distribute the cost of designing it over the number of copies you expect to sell.  If, it costs $x to make this software, you build in a profit and take (x+ a profit) divided by the number of copies you expect to sell, and that should be your price.   So unless you know how many copies you expect to sell you can't know what the price would or should be. 

Now when we look at CG skin we know that the makers can only sell it to people who use 3dsmax 6,7,or 8.  So first you seperate out the people who use those versions of 3ds max and then, of those 3ds max users,  you seperate out only those who will want that particular product.  

If this same technology cost the same to put in Poser then EF* would price it somewhere around the cost of development plus some profit divided by the number of copies of poser they expect to sell.  If they expect to sell 100xs as many copies of poser7 than the makers of CG skin expect to sell thier product then the added cost to poser would only increase $1.95.

If on the other hand, EF expected to sell 100xs fewer copies as the makers of CG skin then they would have to charge an extra $19,500.00 per copy.  

All I am saying is you can not look at how much a feature costs in one progam and assume it woudl cost the same if put in poser.

*Yes I assumed it woudl cost the same for EF to put it in poser as the makers of cg skin to put it in 3dsmax.  Thsi assumption could be wrong.  If it costs more then the price in poser will have to go up.  If it cost less then the price in poser coudl be lower.  That variable is really beside the overall point.

You think poser would have to sell to all of its existing userbase at that price to do those things? 

If poser sells more copies of its software than other companies they would not need to charge each user as much for the same cost of development.    Unless we can analyze how many copies of poser they sell each time they upgrade there is no way we can say how mcuh they woudl need to charge for a new feature. 

If poser has a larger userbase then they can add very expensive and complicated features without increasing the price very much for each copy.   I just don't know if they do have a larger userbase than other high end programs.

I like reason 5 as well.  In fact I think all the reasons have been great except the one about more content.  Poser 7 seems quite compelling - if it actually works. :)

"If Poser has things from High applications, Poser will be a High application, not only in its specifications bt its price too."

I don't think its that simple.  How many more copies do you think poser sells than other high cost programs?  If they sell 12xs as many downloads as a different program that costs 8xs as much they are still making more money. 

"Unless Poser 7 brings in some remarkable developments in the rigging of figures, does the new content, whether it comes with the program or is in the form of a new figure such as Vicky 4, really make a difference."?

I would say No.  

I am looking for new features and effects.  More of the same type of content that we find here by the thousands is not very compeling to me. 

Even if I couldn't use any of my current content, but there was a new figure that made animation better and easier I woudl almost certainly buy it.

Although I agree with much of what you(leonardis) say I wonder if you aren't somewhat contradictory.

I certainly would love to see them focus on animation and making better tools so amatures can animate.  The GUI is very difficult to get the hang of.  Even then I find it very very awkward (like you say no ability to resize windows is next to criminal)  Moreover the animation features are quite lacking and I wish they would do more here to add features and to make the current features more accesible. 

But it appears to me that they are indeed moving in this direction.  They are including lip syncing.  They have worked with the render engine so it can create renders quicker if you have newer hardware.  Sure we woudl all like the rener time to be 1/1000th of the current time on our current hardware.  But how hard is that and what can we expect at poser's price point? 

My hunch is that perhaps we could expect allot more.  Sure poser costs 1/8 the cost of other programs but then again I wouldn't be surprised if they sell 8x as many copies.  But this sort of price point and development cost benefit is not my business.  In the end I really don't have the ifnormation needed for those type of business decisions.

Where I think your perhaps a bit contradicory is where you are asking for better figures.   This is personal preference, but the last thing I need is another figure.  Unless this figure is really  going to bring allot more to the table I say don't waste resources on designing another.  Make the Animation software better.    Make better effects, easier to use, more realism, shorter render times etc.  I don't see how making yet another figure really applies to the goal of making better Animation software.  But we shall see.  Are the new figures really something or just another figure?

YngPhoenix

Thanks for the reply and good advise.   I posted over there on the cp forums.  It seems the difference is you have the option for a hard copy manual and disks with the 7se purchase, but must downlad if you get the p6 upgrade with the 7SE later upgrade.

Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/1970/1/823?sbss=823

I already have a p6 upgrade. If I get another, I can sell my old upgrade on ebay and still get the p7 SE with the 6 month pasport etc.  I wouldn't sell my new P6 upgrade since it might be linked to the new p7 SE serial number or something. 

I guess its not that big of a deal but I think the p6 upgrade will be worth something and there is no reason nto to get the extra license right?

From reading the first post it doesn't sould like the alleged "harrasser" did anythign actionable. AFAIK there is no law agaisnt taking pictures of peoples houses (as long as you don't tresspass to do it) and the documents he obtained from the court were most likely public record or he woudln't have been able to get them. I don't knwo about Ohio but in Illinois there is no Cause of action for "harrassment". There is "sexual harrasssment" but no action for plain vanilla "harrassment." Cases like this are very very few and far between that is why it they get so much attention. The error occurs when peopel with interests in curtailing our rights, lie and say that our courts are full of cases like this. They are not. These interested companies then lobby for legistlation making it difficult to acces the courts when you need them.

I never understood this debate. Some - in fact many - people think that the only legitimate way to be interested in 3d in a creative way is if you want to model. Thsi is very odd to me. Take any movie. Someone chose the costumes but they did not necessarily sew them. If you want to say the costume director is not an artist becasue he or she did not actually stitch the clothes together then fine. But whether its art or not it still takes creativity and may be fun to do. Then there is writing and directing the script. They are not responsible for creating all the props on the stage. They don't help construct the stage. Are they therefore not artists? In 3d it seems the "stage hands" (those who literally construct the stage) often become the Self proclaimed one and only artists while the writers and "directors" are considered lower than scum. IMO I really don't care whether I am called an artist or not. I am interested in writing and "directing" animations. I am not the least bit interested in creating a pair of pants for the characters in my animations to wear. Why doesn't the 3d programing world realize there are probably allot more people like me than not. It seems Poser (and now daz studio, and perhaps carrera) are the only programs that tries to make my goals attainable. But even they are awkward to use. Why is there this absolutely stupid tension between people who want to model thier own stuff and people who don't?

Colbaltdream in post 49 states my views better than I could myself. I only look for the highest quality stuff I can get. If I see somethign that looks plastic I wont even bother investigating it further. There is so much stuff for free I would think the only way to sell stuff is by making the best. Something to keep in mind: I think the old p4 group will be more vocal than the people with my view. However just because you may get more e-mails with complaints from them doesn't mean you are losing more sales due to what they complain about. I don't e-mail vendors saying "your stuff isn't realistic enough" I just don't buy it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I have poser and vue and I am mainly interested in animation. I have absolutely no interest in designing my own 3d items. Is there any reason to get LW? thanks

Would like more smoking movements: Smoking and puting out in ashtray, Putting cigarette on ground walk up and stepping on it, Smoking and knocking ash off. Also a run with sort of short steps like a woman chasing a small child. Would also like specific dances. Salsa, Cha Cha, Waltz etc. thanks

This is a very interesting thread. My thanks to the many who responded. I am a complete noob to these programs. I have never heard of the ability to change ones voice say from male to female before. I downloaded the audacity and tried a test. The pitch controls are greyed out and there is no manual for this product. So I have no clue what to do. Wagnertheundead Please continue to ask questions on this forum as I'm sure there are many who would like the same answers. The gold vcs never sent the the key to dunlock thier demo software. So I couldnt' try it. I downloaded the free adobe trial version. Are there any pluggins that we should get for Audacity and/or for audition? Since my wife is not interested in this I would be interested in male to female changes. Some of the software talks about how they can change your voice live over the internet. I don't care about that. I would like the best software and plugins to change a voice. I don't care if it is done fast or slow. Are there any samples on the web of what these programs can do? Thanks again for the many responses.

I'm not sure what the rules are. Are you sure I would nto be able to upgrade using those? I woudl guess I couldn't use a program you already purchaed p6 with. But I woudl think I could use any version you didn't directly buy the p6 upgrade with. Does anyone know the rules?