Quote - Traditional animation had better stories, too.

OK, I"ll bit. How do you figure that. What has media used got to do with the story. Bad writing is bad writing or good writing is good writing, no matter what you use.

LOL.

I use Toonboom or AnimeStudio for 2D. I can't draw my way out of a wet paper bag with a sharp pencil. But I can with the vert drawing pens.

I will be using both 2D and 3D till the day I die. I just love it and have to much fun doing it.

Quote - Because you always make it sound like you need the more expensive version to rig a figure and that's not true. The fact is you fully rig a figure with the $29.95 version.

You always assume that nobody here needs or has a use for the Property Editor. ExP Exporter, Morph Loader Pro. Why is that? When anyone says how much these tools are and they are expensive. $169 for the bundle if your not a plat member and don't catch it on sale to get it down a bit. You come waltzing in after me for agreeing and start telling everyone they only need the basic to do everything.

Quote - If you don't like it, delete it. Simple.

No. It should not be automatic install without letting people know. It should have been stated in the first place if there is no option to op out of that install. And even when uninstalled. You have to go looking for the leftover files that are place all over the place because DAZ has a different path for every little thing. So not simple as you say. That's just not right to do that in the first place.

Quote - So yes you do need to be connected to the net for those updates. Yes, but you have to allow it to connect. It doesn't do it by itself.

With no way to get those updates unless you connect to the net as what I was saying in the first place. So those of us that don't let our work machines connect are still forced to do so. Again, why is this so hard for so many to understand.

Why is it coldrake that you always need to jump in with that $29.95 version when we already showed the price of the full version. Sure it may be a bit cheeper on sale but still it's not the little version. Your argument that we don't need the full version doesn't hold water because some of us do and that price is very high.

Quote - It's kind of hard to beta test it if no one download sit.  If you're referring to the Content Management Service (CMS) it doesn't connect to the internet.

That's right. With no warning that you have no choice in the matter. As pointed out in more than one thread. It could have been a separate install for those that want to test it and may have a use for it. Notice how many don't want anything to do with it. But anyone can read those threads and see for themselfs. Also when asked if it will be changed or if there will be an alternative way to DL the meta updates from another computer. DAZ was very avasive about it. So yes you do need to be connected to the net for those updates. Which is what others and not just me have been saying about our machines that we don't connect to the net.

I still don't know why it is so hard for so many to understand the fact that many of us don't let our workstations connect to the net.

Silke. Agree with the Content management. DAZ made everyone install that with no choice in the last beta version. Boy am I glad I didn't install that. Many of us had told DAZ not to pull that kind of stuff on people before they did it. It was mentioned in some other thread earlier on about doing this. I think it was the Genesis thread. But don't quote me. Everything to do with all this is so scattered in so many different forums and threads there.

Unfortunately there are to many DAZ fans that think anything DAZ does is a good thing  and tell them so and most of those seem to have only one computer and use it for everything. Unlike those of us that don't let our main work machine/s connect to the net. We shall see if they have done something with that on the next release. Just wait and see what others have found out before installing it.

The setup tools still do what they do in DS4 for everything but the new gen figure. IIRC there will be an upgrade to use with the figures. Agree the price is ridiculus. Can you imagine what the price will be to use with the new figures? But then again, buy the tools and never buy anymore content is much cheeper. I can prove that now. I rarely buy anything from these stores anymore. I just make my own stuff.

No point in telling V5 to pack because you know it will not happen. How many times have we heard that one over the years and the fact is, DAZ still makes the best figures. Not counting the one or two that are out there. 

Quote - What I did today was that I 1) dowloaded and fouled around with Daz studio 4 beta and 2) learned that the Daz people do rigging (up to now) with something called Figure Setup Tools - no doubt better documented and supported than anything in the Poser world. I am already 90% sure that I will do the switch. Version 4 is completly different, a totally new program.

The figure rigging tools are realitivly new compared to the software. Couple of years now? So it is only from that time on that they used it. And you still read every once in awhile about things not working right in Poser using them. So they are not perfect either. They used Poser before that for everything. There is documentation on the set up room for Poser but after all these years it has kind of got scattered around a bit. But that does not mean there isn't any. Daz is not known for updated documentation and hasn't been for years. Unless you count the pay for documentation. Manuals are years and versions behind. One tool does not make it all OK again.

As for DS4. I did say a few times in this thread that people need to try the beta so they can understand the new system and software better. I still prefer Posers UI over DS4 even with it's UI changes. But I did say I would put it in my toolbox. Might not use it much except for export reasons. Tools are tools and have some use.

But who knows what the next version of Poser will bring. I don't buy because someone says it's the best thing going as some will and do. I need a copy in my hands to see for myself to make up my own mind. And there lies the problem as in DAZ is showing what they are doing and SM is not. I can see how some will jump ship on that alone. Getting to actually try something to hearsay.

Still it will be later on, maybe end of year? So lots of time to show thier hands.

In the mean time and in between time it's time to fire up messiah and do some rigging today before I turn into a couch potatoe watching hockey.

Quote - I rest my case. I don't want to give the appearance that I WANT Poser/SmithMicro to fail, which is not the case. I long for something better though.

I have not said anything that backs up what you have been saying except the poor figures and as I said, most don't buy Poser for the figures. You don't buy DS for the figures either. Just a couple of bases come with it. So far all your statements that you say are big problems with SM, except the figures, I have shown you that DAZ have the same problems. So what makes you think one is doomed more than the other if both are still developing.

Then do what many of us have done for better software. Invest in higher end software. Costs a lot more but you get what your looking for. Though Poser does quite a lot for what it is. DS as well as they pretty much do the same thing.

cage

Quote - Discussing the future of Poser vs Daz Studio is not out of context in a V5 Thread. What I say is somewhat similar to circumstancial evidence. There is a number of issues about Poser's future and the company that market it, as I have pointed out. Each point per se doesn't prove much but when stacked upon each is somewhat worrying. To that you can add that they never have been able to market a successful figure and that the Marvelous team choose Daz Studio and not them. It adds up. But facts doesn't rock a true believer. Time will tell.

OK your statement still does not make sense to me.

First, lets point out that the reason that the Marvelous team chooses DS is because DS HAS to have a plugin. Poser doesn't need a plugin to use MD clothing because of the way the Poser clothroom works. In fact if you look at your import export options in MD you will see that the Marvelous team included more than one setting for Poser. So in fact. Couldn't we say that they chose Poser over DS first?

Second. I still don't understand why you think MD is playing a significant roll in the future of DS and Poser. Both are still going to be around with or without MD.

And as for Poser owners not able to market a successful figure is simply the lack of figure integrity. But not very many people buy Poser for thier figures since P4 who it was Zygote who made the figures and split to become DAZ for Poser figures IIRC. Yet none of that has stopped the development of Poser. Nor has it stopped us from buying each new version. With version 9 in the works.

You know, I've been watching the Poser is dead posts for years now. Funny thing is. We still have Poser.

Quote - The reason there is no consensus about almost anything here in the poser forum is because we are talking from different viewpoints. Most people want to use Poser to create illustrations. Nothing wrong with that but a few (bigbraader, London224 come to mind) try to use Poser as a tool in the workflow for serious art. Anyone who has tried to do a studie of something by Bouguereau or Waterhouse know how utterly ridiculous it is to claim that you can make clothing like this in Poser, dynamic or not. (in any reasonable time that is) Marvelous Designer is the first breakthrough (a beginning) to real art. Clothing is the first and main obstacle.

Still what has this got to do with the thread topic. It's like your pushing MD on everyone because it's the best thing ever. But it still does not convert any .obj like Poser can. So it's still not a full answer to the Poser clothroom. Don't get me wrong. I have and use MD. I think it is a very good app. But again it's not even a plugin for DS yet. So again I'll ask. What has this got to do with this thread about the new gen 5 figures and thier rigging and what software to use them in.

Wouldn't all your focus on MD be put to better use in a MD thread? Or a realistic clothing thread or something other than a new figure thread? Or have I missed something here in your posts and If I have I apologize beforehand.

@ Cage. I don't know enough about scripts except a bit of hacking and how to use them. Something I should learn in a long list of things to do.

Quote - Eventually Daz Studio 4 will be here, better designed, with V5 technology and with plugin from Marvelous designer. The question is only then, what do we need Poser for? A product that has changed owner several times, is currently owned by a company that has a ton of other non CG related products and that haven't updated their archaic documentation for years. The argument that Daz earm money on Poser users doesn't hold water they will switch to ds on the drop of a hat.

Yet none of that can turn any .obj into dynamic as poser's clothroom. It just makes it a little closer to what Posers is. Besides the plug can't be made until after DS4 is finished. So you are looking at even a longer time after that. It will be a good thing for DS users when it does happen.

Fact. DAZ has done dick with documentation themselves. Promises but never produce.

Not sure what you are saying about DAZ and Poser users. Are you saying that DAZ is wrong in thinking that Poser users will switch to DS or that the aurgument does not hold water because Poser users will switch to DS at the drop of a hat.

I for one can't stand the DS UI. So dropping Poser is not an option for me as well as with many other Poser users. Adding DS to my tool box is an option for the benifit of better tech figures.

It is also going to depend on what SM brings to the table in the new version of Poser. It looks like we will not know what that is until they release it. Just hints and rumours which mean nothing until it is actually out for us to make our own minds up about it.

Quote - I've been wondering, though, whether some kind of mesh-grouping will be retained, in order to define morph targets somehow. 

Would that not make it easier to morph? True single mesh. No groups to cross over.

 Clothing modeling should be easier too. Yes we will need to learn some new stuff but if it makes it easier to follow morphs or create morphs. That means less work in the long run. This is part of the reason that DAZ showed thier hand. In the first few pages of the V5 thread itwas meantioned how the new system would help with clothing. DAZ jumped in and said that IS how it was going to work and started to show what they have and has the public betas to see for yourself how it works.

So I wonder if Poser is going to have the figure mixer too.

I thought it said different maps for different figures to solve stretching. Just like it is now. That thread is a long read. It may have been in the DS forum I read that. Everything is kind of spread out amoung other forums and threads. Little bits here and there.

No groups. That is the whole point of wieght map rigging. Bones are not connected by groups as they are now. This is how the higher end apps do it. I think Carrara does it as well. Don't quote me on that one as I never rig in Carrara. But this is why bending is much better and more natural. As you can see by the images that were posted. The hand grasp looks really good. The way the breasts move with the arm pose. Two things right there that is a common complaint with the figures we use now among many.

I personally think it's a good thing to move up to the more updated tech that really is not all that new by other software/industry standards. IMHO.

Quote - I've had a look round at daz and cannot find any mention of a V5.

Is there some link I have missed?

In the commons. It is a stickie so you can't miss it. "DAZ Would you like us to give our suggestions for Victoria 5"

You need to read all the pages or at least the first 10 or so to see the images of V5 but it also explains the system as well.

I would have posted the url but I never know whats allowed here anymore.

If there is a free version. DAZ is removing the free figures to payed for. They are also raising the pricing of Bryce to double. Not that I really care as I have them all and Bryce just has a soft spot in my heart as it was the very first app demo I tried all those years ago.

Daz is slowly raising the prices of everything there. Maybe that merging of companies has something to do with it? Maybe not but it seems DAZ is tight for money. So it is quite possable that the gen figures won't be free. Or the base will be but what good is the base without the figure morphs. I don't know how they will sell it.

DS4 has a public beta that you can try out that has the base figure and some extra options. At least it would give people a clearer idea of what it's all about. I know. better to guess and assume than try a version of DS.

As a Poser user I am not promoting DS. Just pointing to a way to understand the new system better if you want.

You mean that april fools joke? LOL. I got a good laugh when I read the threads of those that DL'd that.