PMd you at DAZ. mac

"i'd be fine if this case was ignored entirely for the first version"

Sure. I would too.

I only mentioned it because it might be one of those things that's easy to include at the very start, rather than realising later that you've forgotten it.

mac

I don't want to complicate things for you, but you might also need to consider how alternate (switching) geometry will be handled.

For instance, in Daz Studio, when the user switches to an alt geom body part, the list of materials is automatically updated to include any new/different materials in the alt geom. However, this isn't the case in Poser. Poser includes ALL materials in the list - from both normal and switching geometry.

This could mean that any figure with alt geom will have materials listed which only appear when the geometry is switched.

I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but I thought I'd mention it at this stage in case it becomes a hassle later on.

mac

"I dunno, it seems like the management between EF/Smith Micro and DAZ have shaken hands and agreed to go a bit closer together with Poser 8, SM finally got the damn conforming scale stuff working pretty well.  Maybe they decided to do that on their own but it was a huge favor to DAZ and will end up making a ton of money for both parties"

It was done through mutual collaboration.

Ok, here's a paradox. Some people don't seem to be too fond of the DAZ figures. On the other hand, they don't appear to be crazy about the Poser figures either. So what exactly do they want? And before anyone answers, I can guarantee that if you ask 100 people that question, you'll get maybe 10 of them who actually agree on a similar figure type.

I'm all for 3rd-party development, but you also have to ask yourself why the DAZ figures get so much support. Obviously, it's partly because they're now an established 'brand', but even more so is the fact that they're FREE. That's the clincher. And yes, you can say it's an evil plot to sell morph packs or whatever. Doesn't matter a hoot. It works. IIRC, V4 was downloaded 10,000 times in the first couple of weeks. Of course vendors support her. Wouldn't you be looking to sell to 10,000 people?

Before any 3rd-party figure can compete, it would need to be free, heavily promoted and supported, and of course, better than anything else around. Given that figure modelling is now done by large teams of people, to say nothing of using expensive body scans for textures, I think the likelihood of any one person, or small group of people matching those resources is slim - not impossible, but slim.

I also have to agree with what DarrenUK said about the various approaches to 3d art and content. There's a certain vein of snobbery in a lot of people who make comments along the lines of  "Oh, that's just click and render art", etc. In fact, an often-expressed train of thought here in these forums is that the entire DAZ community are just a bunch of mindless morons who shell out good money for the same products over and over again.

What these people seem to forget is that this is a hobby - You know? Something that people do for fun? Many people have no interest in getting into the guts of software, editing and hacking the files, spending hours making complex node setups. They're quite happy to use pre-made content, apply the MATs that come with it, and get a nice render. What exactly is the problem with that? If they're happy doing it, that's ok. No need to refer to them as 'sheep' and other derogatory names. Let them get on with it, and you do whatever you want to do.

And for the record, I've been at this for over 12 years, and I'm quite happy to spend long hours editing files, if necessary. I just don't expect everyone to do the same.

mac

Quote - Many trade-offs (buid this, not that, build now or later) had to be considered. Far more "good ideas" did not make the cut than did make the cut. Nobody on the team wants to do the wrong thing, i.e. leave a good idea on the table, but the realities of running a business drive the decisions. We can arm-chair quarterback these decisions all day, but I can tell you that juggling all these choices is a very difficult job.

Thanks, BB. I can live with that. It would be nice to see some of these features, but I don't mind waiting so much if I know they're being considered for a future version.

Multi-selection of both geometry and materials is a huge time-saver. People have mentioned DAZ figures having too many materials. Fine. I won't disagree with that. But you try building a large house or maybe one of stonemason's sets and see how many materials you end up with. (The more materials, the more options, remember). Sometimes, having a lot of materials is just unavoidable.

Poser is still a very human figure-centered program. I don't have a huge problem with that, but many of us don't deal in figures. I understand the Dev Team's priorities, and I'm not complaining. I just hope that in future versions we'll get some extra options like multi-select and camera framing.

mac

"What the mouse is over is where it goes. It looks at the polygon under the cursor. When dragging a material collection, it applies to that pro or figure"

Perfect, BB.  Thanks.

mac

I'm wondering how it works in Poser when dragging single materials - ie. mt5 files? In DS, you drag single materials and they apply to the currently selected surface. In Poser, will it apply to any  material you drop it onto?

mac

BB,

Thank you! You answered my questions.

Looks as though Poser now has a UI I'll like.

mac

Sorry, BB. Right after I posted, I saw your LARGE CAPS post - lol.

Thanks.

mac

PS. Dockable Hierarchy? Oh, pleeeease, yes!!!!!

"Undocking and resizing the content library is a feature since P6"

Yes, I know. I should have been clearer. What I meant was does it actually dock - as in 'snap to' - as opposed to just moving around.

What I can't tell from the UI images I've seen is whether the docking gives us the freedom to resize the various UI elements but with some sort of 'snap to' so they all line up. For example, I only keep the library, main doc window and parameters open, and the rest are hidden. So I'm trying to figure out what happens when only a few are visible. Can they be docked to the left-right sides, leaving the main window in the center to fill the available space?

mac

The new UI looks much better (to me), but I'd like to know if the main 'room' tabs can be removed - Hair, Face, etc. I'm also hoping we can add new 'rooms' and rename existing ones, same as in DS. The other thing I'm wondering is whether the Library can be docked elsewhere or if it's still nailed to the right-hand side of the UI.

Oh yes, and is there an option NOT to have the file information on library thumbnails?

Can anyone with P8 comment, please?

mac

Hi VK,

Yep. I'm still in the Alps. Went for a 3-day hike to a refuge at 3,000m last week.

As Ronald MacDonald would say "I'm still lovin' it!" - lol

mac

Thanks, VK. I'll try that too.

Btw, long time, no see. I still give people the link to your ERC tute. LOL.

mac

Les,

I appreciate the camera files and I'll certainly try them, but it doesn't change the issues with Poser.

You see, the problem is I sell content - large scenes - and anyone who uses them has the same issues. That's why I'd like to see these things resolved in Poser itself. I've already done things like include Dolly Cam props in my packs, but again, it's not a real solution.

"You will need to control the "FastDolly" camera from its parameters pallet. It won't work properly from the Camera Controls. The track ball should work OK , but not the others"

This is the sort of thing I come against in Poser too. I use all sorts of hacks, but it's a battle. For example, when I parent lights to a figure (giving them unique names, etc), they don't appear in some menus. Alt geom dials can't have geom names - just 0 - 2 or whatever. Saving figures with cameras and lights is a major hassle. (.pz3s aren't an option, since DAZ won't accept them because they change the users UI - and stripping that info out is a pain anyway). Lots of little things that make my workflow difficult, and most of which aren't even an issue in Daz Studio.

What I'm saying is Poser is still aimed at the 'one figure in the center of the viewport' mentality and anything else outside that isn't considered worth paying attention too by the Dev Team. That's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but sometimes it seems like they don't ever think that people use content other than humans, and it irks me.

Thanks anyway, les.

cheers

mac

I also have serious problems with Poser's cameras in large scenes (ie. almost everything I build). For years now, I've been hoping for a Frame command, similar to Studio's, where I can select any object or body part and immediately frame it.

Poser's cameras were designed for a human figure in the center of the window, and since Version 1, they've never really changed much. They need to be updated to reflect the fact that people make much bigger and more complex scenes than 15 years ago. Ever tried to move through one of Stonemason's scenes (like Streets of Asia) in Poser?

One of the biggest problems, apart from trying to zoom in on small details, is that the Poser cams are locked on the 0 0 0 coordinates (other than the Dolly cam), so once you do get close to something way off-center, you can't rotate around it properly because the camera always wants to point at the center of the universe. In DS, you have Frame and Aim At, both of which make the selected object(s) the new center, and the camera orbits round that, not 0 0 0.

As a scene builder, I find that all the things that drive me insane with Poser, go largely unnoticed by the majority of users and the Poser owners. (I once ranted to eF about not being able to delete a parent prop and all it's children with one click and was told "they didn't think it was an issue"). I know I'm in a minority because Poser evidently isn't meant to do much more than pose a figure and throw clothes on (as far as the owners are concerned), so I mainly keep quiet about it and use Daz Studio as my primary app instead. But I can't avoid using Poser to test products and that's when the screaming and cursing starts.

I didn't upgrade to Poser 7, and I'll only upgrade to P8 if it has some dramatic improvements. But they day they add a Frame function, I'll throw my wallet at them.

Sorry for the rant but it's not often this subject is brought up and it's one I feel very strongly about.

mac