Hi, I admire what I see in the gallery and would like to play around with fractals. In thinking about it I have a couple of questions. I see a lot of discussion here about flames. But I can't figure out what you are talking about. I can't find a definition of a flame fractal. Also, I would hope to do 3D fractals and be able to export them as for example obj files. I have the impression that xenodream is the only program that will do this ( I use Poser and Vue so far).Correct? And I have the impression that zenodream can texture the obj objects and that they will be textured when they are exported. Correct? My other questions right now would have to do with the ease of using various fractal programs. I have some idea from reading the comments here, but if anyone wants to throw in any suggestions anyhow, any thoughts would be welcome. I am not great with computers or math, and so ease of learning is very much a consideration. Thanks.

Hi PJBear,

Here is the website of Scott Draves (the developer of flame fractals) with an explanation of what flame fractals are.
http://flam3.com/

If you would like to make your own flame fractals, get the freeware programme "Apophysis" which can be found here
http://www.apophysis.org/

I have tutorials on my website that explain to beginners how to get going with Apophysis. http://www.arcanefractals.com/apop_tut1.shtml All the fractals you see on my website are flame fractals.

There are many fractal generators. Fractal Explorer (freeware) produces lovely fractals and I think is a good programme for the beginner. http://www.eclectasy.com/Fractal-Explorer/index.html

The Fractovia website lists many free fractal generators http://www.fractovia.org/fractal_generators/gen01.shtml

Another excellent site to visit is Doug Harringtons "Amazing Seattle Fractals" at http://fractalarts.com/ASF/tutorials.html

Just a word of warning! Fractals can be extremely addictive!!!

Fran

Thanks, Fran But I still have a couple of questions. I went to the Apophysis website and downloaded 2.02. But I have not installed it because windows tells me it may not be safe because "the publisher could not be verified." Does this sound suspicious to you? I have not seen it before. Another question is that I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Apophysis can only run as an add-on to UltraFractal, which must be bought. Does that sound right? I guess I don't want to install it unless I first decide to buy ultrafractal if that is the case. I have the impression that xenodream does not make flames, as I am beginning to understand them (I hope). Way back in 1979 I spent a month in Perth and got out and about in W Australia and loved it. Do I understand correctly that you are lucky enough to live there? I live in Minnesota , USA, and it is a very nice place in many ways, but I would take Perth of 79 if I had the choice.

Hi Philip, It is quite safe to install Apophysis. The Apophysis website is well known and reputable. I have seen this error message before when I have been downloading legitimate programmes. I understand that when Apophysis was originally developed it was as an add on to UltraFractal but it is now well and truly a stand alone flame fractal generator. You don't need UltraFractal to use it. However if you wish you can export the flames from Apophysis to Ultrafractal for further playing. Yes I live in Perth, Western Australia. One of the remotest capital cities in the world. As you probably know this is one huge state. It takes up about one third of Australia and is approx 2.5 million square kilometres (1 million square miles). And you got out and about? That's terrific. Glad you had a great time. There are a lot of wonderful sights to see (I myself haven't seen alot of them yet) but you just have to drive quite a long way to get to them that's all :-) Happy fractaling. Fran

Thanks very much, Fran. It seems to work, and your tutorial is great. You are right, I have to make sure I also get exercise and rest. This could be addictive. I didn't get out into the REALLY remote parts of WA, but enough to see a lot of natural beauty. And Perth was just charming and comfortable then. Reminded me a lot of southern california where I was raised, but without the crush of people and all the traffic. And of course we did not have your spectactular wildlife. Phil

I believe that Mark Townsend (Apophysis' author) is also from Australia.

Hi Phil, XenoDream lets you interactively create a huge variety of 3D shapes, that may include fractal structures. You can export them as meshes in OBJ format. At present the coloring and material effects are not able to be exported with the mesh. XD can do flames, with more variety of shapes than other programs, but it's a different rendering method and sometimes the coloring and pseudo-texture doesn't look as good as the others. Regards, Garth

Thanks xenodreamsoftware. So if I understand correctly all your own excellent posts were rendered in xenodream itself. They are not 3d objects exported to other programs. Then, if I want (and I do) to export a XD obj to poser or vue, I would have to figure out how to testure it myself in poser or vue. Right? I have never used the UV mapper, but I suppose I could learn if I thought it would do what I wanted. Do you know, would that be difficult? I am not great at this stuff. I am enjoying playing with Apophysis,which I just got a couple of days ago, but I will also certainly want to buy Xenodream if I can retexture objs easily in another 3d program. I might get it anyway. You guys are right, these programs are very different! I have also played with fractal explorer, which is great fun, but seems very different from the two that we are discussing here. Thanks again also to Fran for the tips on Apophysis. which has been fun. I also saw your tips elsewhere for reducing the graininess, which so far for me has been a limitation. I don't ALWAYS want it there. I have been able to reduce it significanly in display, have not tried high quality renders. "Sample density" in the help file does not show up in the options box in my version (the latest) as it says it should and so I have not yet figured out what they are talking about. And they don't indicate what the possible range is anyway. Phil

Sample density is now called 'Quality' in Apophysis, I believe. Hope that helps! As to textures, at least for Bryce5, if you bring the .obj into bryce, you can also bring in the .jpg for the mat. Vivian

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12416&Form.ShowMessage=2100224

Thanks again for your help. I am doing pretty well with Apophysis. I went and bought Xenodream and am also trying to work with it. But I have run into a problem with the tutorial that comes from the company in the help file, and made a new posting about that, hopefully to attract the attention of Xendream afficionados. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12416&Form.ShowMessage=2100224 If anyone has any insights, I would appreciate it! I have started over several times with this tutorial and always run into the same problem. Phil

Hi Phil, I'm also a beginner in Xenodream so thought I'd give you a wave :) Good luck with the learning. I find it a very exciting program to be playing with. I can also recommend Doug Harrington's tutorial for XD mentioned above because I found it presented in a way that tapped right into my way of thinking and it got me to the point where I was at least making basic shapes that made sense. Like you I was interested in the exporting option though at the moment I am intrigued to learn the possibilities of rendering withing XD as well. But you mentioned using UV Mapper if you do export and I just happen to have bookmarked an excellent UV Mapper tutorial for beginners. http://scanmead.com/tutor/uvmapping/uvmapping.html So much to learn, so little time :) Kathy - who almost gave up the luxury of sleep this week ;)

Thanks Kathye, I will try the uv mapper when I get something I want to import into poser or vue, and when I get up the nerve to struggle with yet another new program! Right now I am going back and forth between XD and Apophysis, and hope to make some combined 2d images. Welcome! Phil