V3 HAE introduced a hand scaling thing that worked very well. I was wondering if anyone knows why they didn't do this with the new kids (or were they released before HAE was?) I'm trying to update Laura, and her knuckles are exploding a little....but it could be a paste error. Anyone know if there is a reason the code shouldn't work for these kids as well (afterward, I guess I'll do it for the rest of the gang..) Or, if you know daz is near release of updated versions, I can just wait:) eric

Last month, Steve Kondris mentioned in the DAZ forums that they have plans to upgrade all the main figures in this way, over the course of the next year.

Well, I can see why they aren't in a hurry. In a reasonable text editor, just copying the channels is a real pain. I suspect the modified the joints as well...but who knows...It's really a shame that the kids didn't get them. They are just so new.... Thx for the info. eric

No modification - It's ERC-controlled scaling. It works the same way as stretch-arms and stretch-legs.

Cool Hand Luke...errr, Big Hand Luke. Laura/Luke hands bugged me from day one. I was hoping for SR1 on them.

V3 SAE, you mean, I trust? I looked into this recently, I was thinking about including the ERC in my Glamorous Vickie and Ingenue Vickie figure updates. First of all, there is more to it than the ERC, they also redid the scaling joint parameters. Second of all, there are problems if you try and do other than use the new dials- try scaling V3 SAE's hand (only) to 90%- it gets bigger, not smaller, for example. Glamorous Vickie has her hands scaled smaller overall, with the X-scale pumped up to give the effect of a same size, more slender hand (as you can see from the pic), this will not work with V3 SAE. Bottom line is, after I checked it out, I decided it was a non-improvement for my purposes, GV and IV will not get it.

They may have redone the parameters but I'd have to go deeper in comparison to be sure.

For the left hand:

scale scale
{
name GetStringRes(1028,5)
initValue 1
hidden 0
forceLimits 0
min 0.1
max 100000
trackingScale 0.004
keys
{
static 0
k 0 1
}
interpStyleLocked 0
valueOpDeltaAdd
Figure 1
lHand:1
PBMScaleHand
deltaAddDelta 0.700000

They also wired parts of the thumb and ends of the fingers.

It would be an easy task to make the dials go backwards not forwards by simple cr2 editing.

All I'm saying is that this is billed as new technology and it's mainly ERC rigging. Nothing new there.

I have hand scaling and ERC to curl each finger separately in Bot-Boi and it's just a creative (I think) way to put ERC to good use. Wait until I get to making organic figures ;)

Message edited on: 03/12/2005 23:33

Well, unless I messed something up, laura's hands don't look very good scaled down with my fix. I used exactly what you posted here NW, so I think the new CR2 has some modified joints (improved to handle this). So, we give vicky smaller hands...now, let's find a way to make her have shorter legs (inverse use of the stretch legs causes problems with the feet....arg). Jim Burton, you are correct. I had been looking at the file name all morning, you would think I would have remembered it correctly....doh! eric

Hmm... interesting, eric I wonder if gloves made for pre-SAE Victoria 3 still work correctly? Besides, I don't see this as a new technology just using old things in old ways. Body handles were novel and new, if you like that sort of thing. But ERC and switching geometry has been there from the get-go, just not used extensively as it is experimented with now. That's all I'm saying. ;)

Reason I know this, incidently, is I edited Glamorous Vickie's CR2 to include all the ERC that V3 SAE has, only it didn't work right. I then cut and pasted all the hand and finger scaling joint parameters into GV's CR2 (which was a fair amount of work, incidently), in addittion to the ERC, and it scaled from the DAZ dials fine, only not as I mentioned. Thinking I made a mistake (Gee, imagine that!) I tried scalinfg V3 SAE's hands and finger down to 90% and up in X Scale 112% too, that didn't fly either, it is an limitation in how SAE is set up. Netherworks- running the ERC the other way isn't going to fix it, the hands scale all weird - scaling her hand (only) to 90% looks like this, it is about doubled in size (way more than 10%), the joint to the forearm is more-or-less broken, too. For all practical purposes V3 SAE's hands can only be scaled with the new dials, and if they are used no existing glove (or whatever) can be scaled to match. I'd guess this is why V3 SR2 is also included with the base figure. ;-)

Ok - I concede ;) But if I get a wild hair up my arse, I'm going to start dissecting. :D

Well, here is a picture of laura's hands after applying the morph (at -.5) If you notice, her limits are set to .5, which, IMHO might indicate that the dial wouldn't yeild good results at values smaller than that Jim, I wonder if you are scaling the palm down? Your trouble is very different than mine. In the cr2 there is a palm FBM as well. I copied those lines as well, though, I'm not sure it did any good. They only affect the hand, and the first portion of the digit extending from the hand. As for it being the latest and greatest technology, I realize this is hardly new. Actually, I think the idea for it came from philC or from another poster here at renderosity, so I don't even credit DAZ with the idea....but, Vicky's hands have always look clumsy to me, so I was happy to see it. And Jim, I agree that your treatment of *Vs hands were much improved. But, again, that is hardly news:) eric

For fun, try replace all of the standard scales on a hand and fingers to propogating scales (like what is found on the body). You can scale up and down...the only real draw back is that it affects only from the parent down. Of course if you go this route on a figure and change it, you would have to do the same for the clothing also. --Rebekah--

Yep, the pic shows scaling just her palm, fingers and forearm not scaled at all. The Poser joint parameters are normally set so when you scale a body part (the rHand in this case) the parent of that part (the forearm) scales a bit too, near the joint, so it doesn't get all weird unless you go pretty far. These are really awful to set up, incidently. ;-)