I bought the DAZ Satyr and he is fun on the Freak. But I think more could be done with it artistically than keep it on the Freak. David is more versatile. I can put the texture on David and it looks really good down to the ankles. But then there are just bare human feet. The hooves and their textures are not there. I don't understand how this works. I am guessing that the textures do not apply to the feet because the mesh has somehow been changed and not simply morphed. I don't know how DAZ would do that. But if that is the case then I suppose that what I want to do is impossible. Would I have to make morphs for David's feet myself and then figure out how to get the texture to take? I am not up to that yet. But if they have simply morphed the feet then one would think that at least the textures would take, even if the feet did not look like hooves. So basically I don't know what I am dealing with, or if there is even any hope of getting David to use the DAZ Satyr set-up. But that would be too bad. The rest of the texture does look quite good on him. The other way to go I suppose would be to try to make the Freak more normal with morphs. I don't know how to do that either. Comments? Suggestions?

can you show us a pic of Freak and David's feet so we can see what you're describing and having trouble with?

Yes it would be easier if you could post a full length picture. If you don't want to post nudity, just add a stripe of plain color in the appropriate position. ;o)

Let me try that. In the meantime I remembered that when you buy the Satyr they have you apply something called Minotaur legs in the figure file. It seems to involve a cr2 and a whole bunch of pz2 files. I don't understand all of this. In the thumbnail it shows up as a red body and green legs and head, and cream colored below the knees. Then as I recall you conform this to the freak (it does not conform to David) and then apply the MAT texture to this. Again, I don't understand all this. I will be back, let me play with renders.

Here we go, ALL three actors in this mystery. I am able to texture the colored figure without conforming it, if it helps to know that.

Maybe you could resize that part and parent it to David somehow? Or apply it as a morph target to David's shins and feet and then parent the object with "inherit bend"? I've added a Nudity tag for those who can stumble on this page from work. ;o)

I tried resizing the colored figure and parenting it. Everything crumbled. I can't understand your second suggestion. How can I apply a figure as a morph target? I would have to think about that. I forgot about the nudity business, so thanks. Hmmm. Getting philosophical here --- Satyrs are not human, and they are not really naked, because they are covered with hair. So can virtual representations of mythical and non-human creatures, clothed in hair be considered nude? Hmmm. Oh well, the world has never been easy to understand. I have my hands full understanding the logic behind how poser works. But thanks.

Here are the minotaur files that I came up with in a search of poser 4 runtime. So this is what I could work with, apparently. But I don't know what is actually possible. I don't understand the logic of all these files and of what is involved in this figure.

Message edited on: 03/20/2005 02:17

For the morph targets, I was thinking that maybe you could load the freak, export each part that compose the legs/feet you can't texture on David, then load them as morph targets on David. Don't know if it can be done... I don't know enough in Poser for that but it was a thought.;o) For the nudity, I think your logic "might" be considered for the Freak attire but not for David since he doesn't have hooves yet. lolll Looking at the list of files, I have another idea but again I don't know at all if it could be done... I heard about a program named "morph manager" or "morph master" or "morph something" that you can use to transfer morphs from one figure to another... maybe it would work if you could transfer the Freak's morphs to David.

Don't worry about the hooves... just give him a horned helmet and call him Ragnarr Hairy-Breeches! (a very famous and fierce viking) :whistle innocently and walk away: Carolly

The problem you have is that the the two figures are not boned for the same sized figure. The Minotaur legs are boned for the Freak, a much larger figure. This is how to take the legs and make them fit David and create a new conforming figure for him.

1. Load both David and the Minoaur Legs. Put them both in zero pose with IK turned off. DO NOT conform the legs to David!
2. Resize the Minotaur legs to match David. You'll have to use side-to-side on the shin's a bit to get a good fit between the figures. 72% works pretty well on resizing. I sidemoves the shins about 7% to get the fit over David's shins. Not an exact fit, but pretty close.
3. Export the minotaur's shins, feel, and toes as an object file. Check the Include Body Parts, Include Existing Groups, and Weld options. All other options should not be checked.
4. Delete the Minotaur from your scene.
5. If you have P5, import the Minotaur legs object you just exported. Use the default options. Then go into the setup room and use the David Blank character to add bones to it. Go back to the pose room and conform the new figure to David. You'll have to zero pose it to get it to fit right after conforming. Save the new leg figure to your library.

If you have P4, open the David Blank.cr2 in a text editor and change the lines pointing to the David object file to point to the minotaur leg object you just exported and save the file as "David Minotaur Legs.cr2" Be sure you've done a save as and not a plain save! Otherwise you'll overwrite the David Blank.cr2 file. Go back to Poser and load and conform the new figure to David.

It won't be a perfect fit, but it'll work as a conforming figure. The morphs will be gone, but you cna magnet the shins to get them to fit David's variations pretty easy. You also could ask Raw-Art to make a complete set of legs for the figures as conforming items. Daz is just brokering it for him. BTW, This is David using a morph set I call JimBoy's. It's designed for Vittorio, but will work with any V3 grouped figure.

Message edited on: 03/20/2005 08:36

Unfortunatly I will not be able to help much with this, the legs were designed by n0s4ra2 specifically for the freak. I agree it would be great to have a set for M3 or David as well, but seeing as my skills are texturing I have to work with what models are available to me. pdxjims seems to have given a decent work-around...I may even have to give that a try as well :) Rawn (RawArt)

I don't have the Satyr but I was able to make a werebeasty for M3. I converted Aiko3's cat girl boots to M3. I imagine the Satyr boots work the same way. You just go through the same process as you would in converting clothing from one figure to another. I choose to hide the M3's legs from the thigh down. Perhaps you would need to hide David's shins for David Satyr. The JPs for the boots I borrowed the JP's from M3's goth thigh high boots. So find some knee high or thighhigh boots for David (or use David's Body Suit) for the JPs. I'm still working on textures for the M3 werecat or is it M3 dogguy? Lol. He's confused. Heeh heeh ;p p.s. You don't have loose the morphs. I didn't for the Cat Boots, but you will have to hack the Cr2 in a text editor. In your new conforming Cr2 for david, copy into it the delta information from the original file. For catboots, I also had to make sure the weld/child information was the same as the original. Good luck1 p.s.s. Shouldn't there be more nudity flags on this thread? bB

Message edited on: 03/20/2005 13:09

Hi guys.
The Minotaur legs are not attached to the freak. The process is called swappable geometry. So what you see white of the Minotaur legs are newly created mesh. Not a morph.

As for the files. One folder contains, the cr2 for the Minotaur, one contains the mesh.
The other files are the inject for the Minotaur head morph.

As to how the satyr is packed; I didnt pack it, daz did. Rawnrr created the textures to require the Minotaur legs. Meaning you would have to own both the satyr and the Minotaur.
Then Rawnrr, daz and I decide to pack the legs free in the satyr. So daz was nice enough to pack the legs for us.

On to using the figure all you have to do is load the Minotaur legs from characters Minotaur folder. No need to conform them.

As for using the legs with other figures. To be honest I never gave that a thought when creating them. I wish I had and in the future anything I release I will leave my self the option of being able to make a version for all characters or release the add-ons with this option. pdxjims idea is the best way to go for now. But you will need to tweak joints as the Minotaur legs do not match bones for any of the characters other than the freak.-minotaur that it comes with. But I dont think much tweaking will be required to make them work well.
By the way Jim, very nice answer.

There will be another set of these types of legs in the near future as I start to release some creatures I have been working on. If you are interested check creatures that go bump thread on the daz forum for updates

Sorry I could not be more help but pdxjims beat me to the punch.

Oh boy. I can see this is going to be a learning experience and take some time for me to figure out, being I am not a wiz at this stuff. B But let me make a few comments before I try to figure all this out and dive into the challenge itself. pdxjims: Great image! And, it makes my point that even though the satyr set-up on the freak is fun, there is a lot more artistically that can be done here. No reasons all satyrs should have to look alike. Let me add that I don't understand what you mean after BTW. Is the JimBoy morph available? Does the satyr texture go right onto all of it, or did you first go through the steps that you first outlined to get the hooves on it? rawnrr: Thanks for your comment. It gives me a chance to say again that it is a very nice texture with a lot of possibilities. It looks as though it can go on other figures easily, except for the hoof issue. bastblack: Very cool werecatguy! I can't quite figure out your suggestions. I don't know some of the things you are talking about, like what are the cat girl boots (I can't find them), and so I can't visualize a lot of what you are saying. It seems that if I put on boots and then somehow morph them to look like hooves, the texture will not necessarily go onto that mesh. I would have to make a new texture, right? And I would have to somehow morph the boots to look like hooves, right? And it is not clear if you morphed boots to look like those nice cat feet, or if they were already that way in the cat girl boots that you mentioned and that I can't find anywhere. But anyway, very cool figure. Let us know how it goes. nOas4ra2: Thanks for the clarification. I suspected they were not just morphs. Yes, it would be a good idea to make future products more versatile. You would certainly have a bigger market! In this case, I do like the freak as a satyr, but one could do much more artistically if the legs and textures could be put on more versatile figures like david. there could be a whole gang or army of satyrs, for example and it could be more interesting if they were different sizes and shapes and faces. I am very curious to know what you mean by "these types of legs." Give us a hint????? Are you saying that creatures that go bump is not yet up but will be soon? Small suggestion. If you make legs for a lighter guy, and it is not too difficult, smaller hooves might be nice, as illustrated. But this would not be critical for me personally.

Pjbear, The JimBoy morphs will be available very soon after Vittorio is released. He's still in pending at Daz, but I hope he makes it to the store soon. I've got 2 JimBoys done, I'd like to have more finished. The same Satyr texture is applied to both the minotaur legs and the figure.

pjbear, Don't worry, it can be done! There are some really talent people posting to this thread. =) Here's a link to Aiko 3 CatGirl: http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=2903 And add on FoxGirl: http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=3055 Isn't she cute? :D Aiko Catgirl is really more like a CosPlay costume than anything else. By that I mean the boots, gloves, whiskers, claws, tail, and ears are all "wearable" clothing items that conform to Aiko. This is an interesting approach to making werebeasties, imho. And you're right about it being a tricky problem to lining up a conforming "boot" fur texture to match a fur skin texture. EEK! That would be a nightmare unless the "boots" are exactly UV mapped like a skin texture. So it makes alot of sense that Satyr is geometry switching. If you want to read more why geometry switching is better than morphs for making WereBeasties, read the Creatures That Go Bump thread on Daz: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=5764&highlight=creatures+bump nOas4ra2 has some cool Sneak Peak pictures on this thread! We leave him cookies and encouragement! =) nOas4ra2 <---- Nudge nudge nudge Still looking forward to your werecritters, nOas4ra2. I think it would be very cool if you could do multi figure support. Perhaps as an expansion after the first release if not right at the start? That would be sweet. =) bB

Sadly my creatures have not been completed yet. But they are close and I am planning on finishing them up ASAP. And I have lot more creatures that I have not shown yet. These types of legs bull legs, and more. I have another creature that will have similar legs. I think it would be very cool if you could do multi figure support I do to. All my creatures (this time) were design with this in mind. I dont know how I will package everything but the option will be there. Thanks for the support. In fact I am going to update the creature thread today. See u there

I am working at it! following pdxjim's plan. This is how far I am now. I have not used P5 before, just opened it a few days ago. So I have to take a break and read the manual a bit. Jim's suggestions worked okay except that when I loaded the minotaur in P5 part of the leg was always missing. So I had to load it and work in P4 where I had it installed all along. Managed to save it as an obj. Then fooled around importing it. It was huge! I had to scale back to 29% and have it import on the ground in order for it to line up automatically with david. Last, I got it into the setup room and had to fool around a bit to get to what you see. Now I have to read the book a bit. My tendency would be to start deleting bones of the upper body to get them out of the way, and then go from there (whatever that means!). But for all I know this is exactly the WRONG thing to do. So I have to read. At least I got this far, and I am learning about P5 which so far is easier to use than I thought it might be. BastBlack: Thanks for the tips. I will check them out as soon as I make a bit more progress here. nOs4ra2: That sounds great!

Hmmm. Actually I am not sure what I am doing. I saved the two hooves as a single obj object. I don't know if that was right or not. If it was, I guess what I have to do next is groups polygons according to their original designations and names. Is there an automatic way to do this? Did I miss something? I have never used the grouping tool, so I have to read up on that. Anyway, so far as I can tell I have to group the polygons as in the original minotaur figure. Then I guess I just attach the bones by assigning names. Is that right? Then even though they are one obj mesh now, once I groups and divide they will move independently of each other? Is that right? The manual does not say anything about deleting the upper body bones. Do I just leave them there? Then how does this figure end up on david? I would guess that I simply parent this figure to david and conform the whole figure to david? Then do all the bones in this figure move with david? Or do I have to delete some? They will not be attached to any of his body, so maybe it does not matter. Then what about his own legs? I would guess I just turn them off in the hierarchy editor. Am I on the right track? Or should I try to delete them somehow? Just thinking. Probably I will sleep on it. In the meanwhile here are a few pictures of satyrs (or pan) to make the point that artists will want to portray a variety of them.