(Posting here since, IIRC, the original topic started here. Also cross-posted to the Copyright Forum.) For those of you following the Sony Rootkit Scandal, check this out: http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Entertainment/Industry/?article=/Entertainment/Industry/News/Q7P7L4N2 Looks like there might be more to this than a DRM screwup.

Yikes. o_O

Way to go, Sony. Now people are going to be downloading pirated stuff off P2P networks because it's safer than buying a legal CD. :-P

Yeah, totally sucks. Protecting their stuff is one thing but this is going way over the line. Makes me wonder what the heck they were smoking to come up with that bright idea.

Bad Sony, evil Sony!

Thanks for the link. I hope Sony gets charged; it might serve as a lesson to these corporations that they can't do whatever they want to peoples' computers.

Sony is a Japanese corporation, so it must have been too much incense and sake (maybe bad blowfish). ;)

How stupid is this? This is like handing the world over to the crackers and hackers on a silver platter. Not only does the Rootkit compromise the entire computer (great for crackers), but it uses your internet connection to send data to Sony (great for the hackers). In other words, playing a Sony BMG CD on your Windows computer connected to the internet is an invitation for disaster! Not only do they provide an means to seriptitiously install malware (or worse), but they provide the avenue (right down your connectivity pipeline).

Who thought up this ridiculous idea? Forgot to add: whoever was responsible, I sure hope that they have a tanto or similar for seppuku...

Message edited on: 11/09/2005 15:30

Oh well, I live in Canada and our Federal Courts ruled that it's perfectly legal to file share music. I download using P2P programs, burn them to CD and play them on my stereo. If I found a company had installed something on my computer to collect my personal information without my consent, I wouldn't think twice about running to a lawyer and suing the company for violating my privacy.

Quote - It's the american branch of Sony, dumbass.

Sarte, there is no need for name calling, geez! Attack the words, not the poster.

"It's the american branch of Sony, dumbass."

... who of course have no connection with the Japanese parent company at all?

The branch is irrelevant; a global company has been caught screwing its customers, and I hope they get hammered for doing so.

Most of us at least try to watch our mouths on this forum, btw.

"Oh well, I live in Canada and our Federal Courts ruled that it's perfectly legal to file share music. I download using P2P programs, burn them to CD and play them on my stereo." Maybe because I'm in a different country, "Western Canada", that I haven't heard of that ruling. I'm not saying that it's not true, I would sure like to see some real documentation on it being legal to pirate music or software. Sony needs to be made an example. Hit them hard and show what WILL happen to any others thinking of doing something similar.

actually with the Canada thing.. it was the courts telling the RIAA etc that laws are already inplace to enforce copyright, they were not going to allow the courts to be choked with this (they have more important cases to deal with), if you want to take the sharers to court - use the laws in place already we're not changing them / making new ones and get out of my court room you horrible little oik. cutdown version : the Canadian Courts told the music industry follow the laws in place. they would not. Courts told them, or else. music industry went off to sulk. upshot. P2P is a legal grey area in Canada, but only with music. at this time, you can't really be sued fo sharing. Software etc is still a no no. (quite right)

File sharing legal in Canada

Sony is a Japanese corporation. I don't care what 'branch' it was. The main headquarters is in Japan and the company started in Japan. Do you think that 'any' branch of Sony works completely independently of Sony itself?

This is the address of the main headquarters:

6-7-35 Kitashinagawa, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 141-0001, Japan

Ad hominem, the best form of argument...

Baka! ;p

Message edited on: 11/09/2005 18:05

And just in time for the Xmas PS3 season..... >:)= Did you hear about the little patent Sony recently obtained? It was for technology that would effectively lock a game disc to one console. No taking game over to buddies house to multiplay, and if the console goes Tango Uniform, well..... It isn't just Sony btw. The Media conglomerates all need to be broken back into smaller fry and the 'Mickey Mouse' laws that permit them to have a free ride on the backs of artists from 80 years ago on scrapped completely.

"The Media conglomerates all need to be broken back into smaller fry and the 'Mickey Mouse' laws that permit them to have a free ride on the backs of artists from 80 years ago on scrapped completely." Here here!

Have heard talk of RIAA being countersued under some organized crime/gang activity statutes. Seems they picked on the wrong little old lady -- will post URL to the article when I find it. Heh, no wonder some people call 'em the "Record Mafia". ;-)

Attached Link: http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5182641.html

beryld , yes, it's totally legal to file share **music** (the ruling doesn't apply to software, just music). I download and share music all the time. If I like enough songs on a CD, I will go and buy the CD. However if there are only 1 or 2 songs on a CD that I like, I'll download them and make my own CD of mixed songs.

In Canada we pay tariffs on blank media such as casette tapes, video tapes, CDs and DVDs regardless of what you are using them for. I don't know exactly how it works, but this tariff is directed to the music and movie industries, and is quite substantial from what I understand.

I heard a few months back about talk of increasing the tariff fees on these items. I don't know if it went through or not.

Message edited on: 11/09/2005 19:18

Message edited on: 11/09/2005 19:19

As far as I know, in the US this idea was nixed (probably by the RIAA). Then they couldn't charge $17.99 (and more) for a CD with those one or two songs you may like and keep any form of sharing illegal (not that I'm for passing copyrighted music around). It took all of this mess (and some reassuring CMP) to convince the RIAA that the idea of buying songs/albums online was worthwhile and the future. Yes, Sony still refuses. You will note that you will not find any Sony artists available at, say, iTunes.

Yeah mp3 in Canada is legal but we now have taxes on mp3 players and cd players that is paid to the music companies. So we are still paying for them.

Maybe it's time for a boycott? Marque

I'm guessing because this little piece of software changes & uses vital parts of windows to do it's dirty work a firewall wouldn't be effective at blocking it's reporting back to central command?

It's a part of the Sony company. A very shameful part. A hundred years ago, these men would be asked nicely to fall on their own swords to die an honorable death. Sony Corp. needs to take an in-depth look at Sony Music. Maybe firing a few greedy American CEOs and putting in Japanese replacements would be a good idea.

Attached Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4424254.stm

From the BBC News Website "Sony BMG is facing three lawsuits over its controversial anti-piracy software. Revealed in late October by Windows expert Mark Russinovich, the software copy protection system hides using virus-like techniques. One class-action lawsuit has already been filed in California and another is expected in New York. Digital rights group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), is also gathering information from users to see if a case can be brought." Affected CD's Trey Anastasio - Shine Celine Dion - On ne Change Pas Neil Diamond - 12 Songs Our Lady Peace - Healthy in Paranoid Times Chris Botti - To Love Again Van Zant - Get Right with the Man Switchfoot - Nothing is Sound The Coral - The Invisible Invasion Acceptance - Phantoms Susie Suh - Susie Suh Amerie - Touch Life of Agony - Broken Valley Horace Silver Quintet - Silver's Blue Gerry Mulligan - Jeru Dexter Gordon - Manhattan Symphonie The Bad Plus - Suspicious Activity The Dead 60s - The Dead 60s Dion - The Essential Dion Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten Ricky Martin - Life this sony software now declared "Malware" by Nortons and Computer Assoc....

OK. That just sucks. All those albums I bought just to learn to play 1 or 2 songs, I could have got for nothing. I had thought it was both music and software. You can't find anyone here that has a computer that doesn't have pirated software. Except me. They keep telling me it's legal to share PS, most popular, and so on. They must be confusing music ruling with software and I thought it was wrong for both. I thought that list of discs would have been bigger.

Thank you for that list, Khai!

LOL: Switchfoot - Nothing is Sound The Coral - The Invisible Invasion The Bad Plus - Suspicious Activity These are appropriately named, considering their hidden surprise package.

If the business culture of Japan is still alive, and not morphed into another flavor of American greed and sociopathy, then I expect some heads will roll at Sony Music. Not for doing the wrong thing, but for embarrassing the company. Which is fine with me. When the pimps start killing the loan sharks, everybody wins. M

This copyright protection thing sucks. Bought Star Wars III DVD in Europe yesterday and can't play it in my PC. Copy Protection prohibits this. Found out later that they have a data track on the DVD, where a Shockwave Flash Player is activated on autorun, which I didn't know, because I have this 'feature' deactivated (protects me from Sony). The Player plays your DVD on the PC, but it plays only in a small window (no stretching activated on my notebook's 1440 resolution) and the player supports only play, stop, fast forward and fast back. This is just ridiculous. Had to copy the DVD to be able to use a normal WinDVD and all it's features. This was the last DVD I bought. Poor people, who use Media Center from Microsoft for playing content. They will get into a lot of troubles in future. The pirates will not. There was only a small hint that the DVD is copyright protected, but no hint, that you can't simply use it on a PC or MAC.

"Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten" Whoa - Steerpike jr. #3 has that album; she hasn't played it on the computer, fortunately. Is Natasha's brother Daniel on a different label? Steerpike jr. #2 has 'Gotta Get Through This' - I think that's the title.

but no hint, that you can't simply use it on a PC or MAC.<<<< ----------------------------------------------------------- Ive watched EPIII ROTS on a Mac G5 several times already with ALL play back features available
must be a winderz/PC thing

Message edited on: 11/10/2005 11:54

The Sony/First 4 Internet Rootkit will only install on Windows. Doesn't install on Windows XP x64 and possibly some older versions (Windows 98/ME, for instance). And you need to have the 'AutoPlay' feature enabled for the CD/DVD drive for it to install the Rootkit (something that I always disable).

Attached Link: http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/10/technology/sony_spyware.reut/index.htm

It gets worse.

*A computer security firm said Thursday it had discovered the first virus that uses music publisher Sony BMG's controversial CD copy-protection software to hide on PCs and wreak havoc.

Under a subject line containing the words "Photo approval", a hacker has mass-mailed the so-called Stinx-E trojan virus to British e-mail addresses, said British anti-virus firm Sophos. When recipients click on an attachment, they install malware, which may tear down the firewall and gives hackers access to a PC. The malware hides by using Sony software that is also hidden -- the software would have been installed on a computer when consumers played Sony's copy-protected music CDs.*

I hate to say "I told you so", but I will anyway. ;0)

from the linked article in post#33: >>"The Sony copy-protection software does not install itself on Macintosh computers or ordinary CD and DVD players"<< Ahhh.. gotta love mac OSX :-)

but seriouslySo all this really means is hardcore P2P users may have to fork over a few $$ for an old dusty Used Mac G4 to rip music Cd's to Mp3 before putting them in their shared directories to spread on KAZZA,morpheus ,Limewire et al. ya sony.. truly unbeatable scheme you have there sheesh!!

But will these CDs even play on any computers if you don't have the DRM software installed?

What a headache for Sony this is turning out to be. I bet this really ruins their weekend...

Attached Link: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004145.php

Look at the EULA you're agreeing to when you play a Sony CD:

*1. If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. That's because the EULA says that your rights to any copies terminate as soon as you no longer possess the original CD.

1. You can't keep your music on any computers at work. The EULA only gives you the right to put copies on a "personal home computer system owned by you."

2. If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music. The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.

3. You must install any and all updates, or else lose the music on your computer. The EULA immediately terminates if you fail to install any update. No more holding out on those hobble-ware downgrades masquerading as updates.

4. Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. And Sony-BMG disclaims any liability if this "self help" crashes your computer, exposes you to security risks, or any other harm.

5. The EULA says Sony-BMG will never be liable to you for more than $5.00. That's right, no matter what happens, you can't even get back what you paid for the CD.

6. If you file for bankruptcy, you have to delete all the music on your computer. Seriously.

7. You have no right to transfer the music on your computer, even along with the original CD.

8. Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling. The EULA forbids changing, altering, or make derivative works from the music on your computer.

Crazier and crazier ...

As a consumer, you also do have rights. Like the right to not give them your money :) It is only music... entertainment. We are not talking about water or food here. And there are plenty of independant artists just as worthy as the ones licensed by Sony waiting to be heard from. Better give them your money directly.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHH i have got "Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten" and i have bloody played the damn thing on here... I hope SONY GET ABSOLUTLY GET THEIR ARSES SUED OFF FOR THIS... they need to be taught a lesson. A harsh and extreme lesson.

Attached Link: http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/RootkitRevealer.html

something we should all run - "ntroduction RootkitRevealer is an advanced patent-pending root kit detection utility. It runs on Windows NT 4 and higher and its output lists Registry and file system API discrepancies that may indicate the presence of a user-mode or kernel-mode rootkit. RootkitRevealer successfully detects all persistent rootkits published at www.rootkit.com, including AFX, Vanquish and HackerDefender (note: RootkitRevealer is not intended to detect rootkits like Fu that don't attempt to hide their files or registry keys). If you use it to identify the presence of a rootkit please let us know! " I'm clear... are you?

Attached Link: http://www.macintouch.com/#tip.2005.11.10.sony

Ive seen this mentioned on boingboing and slashdot, so... An RCA Victor title distributed by Sony that tries to install files in OS X. Don't give your admin password to a music disk. Real CDDAs don't have DRM.

All those albums I bought just to learn to play 1 or 2 songs, I could have got for nothing. lol very funny cuz thats how i think i pay nothing for Nsync's Bye Bye bye track... just kiddin'

The Sony copy-protection software does not install itself on Macintosh computers or ordinary CD and DVD players lol.. oridinary cd and dvd players getting a virus? wow where has this world come to if that was to really happen..

which reminds me i brough this cool kick ass Sony PSYC CD player it comes with a cd to install a program that lets you creat Atrac3plus files .. from audio and mp3s and whatnot i hope they aint trying to pull a fast one using this product

StandardOilNewYork
Then sold to Japanese********Message edited on: 11/11/2005 03:53

Fortunately for me, most Sony/BMG artists are crap. Unfortunately, Coldplay and Fiona Apple are a couple of exceptions to this. Looks like some letter-writing campaigns are in order: Encourage your favorite Sony/BMG artist to sign with a different label, independent if possible.

Yes, I stand corrected: for those using OS X, apparently some of the Sony disks are installing two kernel extensions, which may cause problems similar to the ones experienced by Windows users. It's in the link provided by 12rounds in the copyright forum and by lmacken in post 42. There is no security alert, but I don't know if the license agreement discloses what the two kernel extensions do, or what the "Start.app" does.