The backroom went down when we changed the forums over last year. We are supposed to be getting all-new all-singing-and-dancing "community pages" for each forum which will be easy to maintain even for those staff who don't know HTML, which should be a big help in here since I'm the only fluent mod!

Only thing is, I think we asked the programmers for soooo many things to go on them that they're still printing out the list now :lol:

Quote - > Quote - ""There is, if you haven't bothered to conduct a forum search for the question first. ""

If you're like me and don't mind, then go ahead and help the guy/girl out.

Thanks for the voice of decency, JJ. As a former teacher, I could spend pages explaining why someone might ask a question again that had been "answered" in another thread. If people like DPH are too bloody busy or important to answer, nobody is holding a gun to their gonads.

The search tool is a joke. I have used Google to search R'osity sometimes.

As for doing the work of searching for the questioner, I don't see that as a requirement. I have occasionally said, "There's a thread out that that helps out with this question" and left it at that. And I wouldn't be offended if someone answered me that way. Without being insulting, the answer tells me that a search might work... optimistic, but at least I know there is a needle somewhere in the haystack.

Civility is a one-way street around here. I'm getting used to walking upstream.

M

Quote - RTFM? What does that stand for?

:)

Really Tough F@@# MoFo. It's a remnant from the days when little pencil-necked programmers with pocket protectors could imagine themselves as Conan the Cimmerican [sic] while typing anonymously.

The geek forums that introduced and propagated RTFM (they also loved to make their computers Submit, and would, on occasion, Kill them. Being extra-programmatically illiterate, they somehow managed to dub themselves Unichs) were made up primarily of folks who get a kick out of knowing something -- anything -- that nobody else does.

Finding the answer when you aren't sure how to ask the question, much less what the answer is, is no mean feat. To come back to Acadia's comment, there is no such thing as a stupid question. Just stupid answers.

M

Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

The RTFM answer is a joke, after all, since every "manual" produced with a piece of Windows software in the last ten years (show me an exception, please! I used to believe in technical writing) is worthless dreck. "The Help key will get you help. Click on Help About to learn more." It's a downward spiral. The unwillingness to read allows software companies to not care about the quality of the manual, and the quality of the manual discourages reading it.

The P5 manual actually had some information backwards ... things worked the opposite of the way the manual said they would. No surprise, when you consider that the software wasn't finished when the manual went to the printer. I don't much care if a questioner has spent four hours or none checking the manual. Either option could be an intelligent choice. The advent of searchable PDF manuals has simply confirmed what we know about manuals: the information is not there, or if it is, it's in a form that the keyword search mentality can't find.

Hey if any of your are referring to me in the snippy group, I plead guilty. Some days I get cranky when someone asks a very common question and I have to run search for them. Still I do it. The cranky comes with the actual answer :biggrin:

Anybody having troubles with matmatic, parmatic, or AMUCFS should absolutely post. Sometimes users help each other out, particularly on MAC/Python issues.

By the way, the Node Cult forum was specifically made so you can slavishly worship every word I have to say.  :tongue2:

I currently have 27 CG forum generated questions or private messages to get to this morning. I ignored everybody all weekend while exposing myself to massive quantities of harmful UV radiation on a sailboat. I also sliced my finger open with an electric hedge trimmer. It is very hard to type. My margherita glass is empty. Sigh.

bagginsbill - I quess some people will be getting some cranky pm replies from you today then, that's if you're able to type anything!! :blink:

Quote - > Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

Hmmn, actually, for me no, or at least not for very long. I have to agree with lkendall, if I see a post with zero replies but sixty-something people have read it, I think that's more hurtful, so I tend to jump in. Even if it's to say, good question, I don't know the answer or, again direct them to resources, even if it's providing the search terms necessary.

bagginsbill, you poor guy, the cut and sunburn are bad enough, but an empty magarita glass! Oh, my! Have someone fill that right back up: you can even use it to kill germs on that cut. ;) In my case, I really do need to RTFM. Never used a Python script in my life. Didn't even know where the buttons were. blush To my credit, I have been able to recreate every single error message listed in all the threads in both forums. g The good news is, muddling around in the Material room was an eye-opener!

Quote -
Oops, my bad, I totally missed that. Must have had the wrong glasses on...lol! I do think it should be a bit more prominent though. It's pretty easy to miss. It would be nice to get the backroom going again too, there was a lot of good stuff for newbies in once.

No biggie :). You had me going LOL, I thought it went away, or the link was broken. It is kind of hard to spot.
It would be nice to get the backroom going. I think they could use help with that....

BB I don't think anyone was referring to you, I certainly wasn't.  Though I have seen you get cranky, I found it quite funny when it happened.

I think anyone with any common sense (sense is never common I know), knows the people who are overloaded and can demonstrate a bit of patience with them. 

Quote - I have to agree with lkendall, if I see a post with zero replies but sixty-something people have read it, I think that's more hurtful, so I tend to jump in. Even if it's to say, good question, I don't know the answer or, again direct them to resources, even if it's providing the search terms necessary.

Yeah, I agree with that one!!! 30 views and no answer is worse then a hurried answer pointing someone to resources. I don't see short and to a point answers to newbies as mean or aggressive. I don't like antagonistic answers very much, but something short with a link to a search or answers is quite appropriate. Someone actually taking time to explain things is a big bonus, especially with questions that repeat themselves few times a week, or as JJ said are only few threads apart.
I was rolling my eyes last week, there was a same question asked 5 times, and all threads were on the same, front page here. That tells me that people asking didn't even bother to scroll around the page in search of info, but just posted a question and expected the answers will come pouring in.

Bill, with all the wonderful stuff you do for people around here and other places, you get a 'get out of jail free' card for being cranky any time you want. 

That's one major thing that's prteventing me from jumping into full vendorship. I don't have the time or energy or patience to provice cheerful customer service. Once you start selling your things, you're obligated to provide it. At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free).

"At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free".

So that's it now then Connie, you give us those brilliant Victorian shoes, you've had your way with us & now you're just going to leave us to play around with them with no help whatsoever!  :biggrin:

Quote - "At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free".

So that's it now then Connie, you give us those brilliant Victorian shoes, you've had your way with us & now you're just going to leave us to play around with them with no help whatsoever!  :biggrin:

Aw, thanks :)  that's cute!
I'm actually hoping someone whom knows more then I do will grab them and start playing with them, and teach me a thing or two!!!  [Okay, so I can daydream, can't I?]

I'm acutally using the shoes in one of my many projects at the moment. I've been in the material room putting in some black leather, Vicky looks quite sexy in them!

Just a thought...how about a new forum entitled  "Newbie Questions" or something similar?  That way, those who want to be helpful can, and those who don't want to bother reading don't have to?

Since we know the questions will continue to be asked, at least they could all be posted in the same place;)

MirageBay - Interesting idea, I think that could work.
BTW, who's the gal in your avatar? I saw her in the marketplace some time ago & thought she looked interesting but I forget who she is now & by whom. I could be wrong & she just looks like your avatar.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=MirageBay

WOW, sorry, I never realised it was you. 
I just wish I had the money. I like her face, it's rare to see V3 in the marketplace these days.

Quote - I'm acutally using the shoes in one of my many projects at the moment. I've been in the material room putting in some black leather, Vicky looks quite sexy in them!

You know, the Apollo Conforming Apron I jsut released has a really cool procedural leather shader in it by Bagginsbill... (hint hint)  in case you haven't snagged one of his shaders already :)

Quote - WOW, sorry, I never realised it was you. 
I just wish I had the money. I like her face, it's rare to see V3 in the marketplace these days.

No problem at all:) Thanks for the compliment.

A leather shader sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

Actually, BagginsBill posted it in this thread, about half ways down:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2703112
about half ways down. The file is a regular mt5, just drop it in your materials folder and use.
It's easy to change color of it, by changing diffusion color (I think that's all, but going from memory here.)

I am new to this 3D poser, money grabbing, time sucking addictive habit about 7 months now. Been around computers to long to remember everything I forgot :) I feel the reverse is the case, that newbee questions get met with no issues. Granted having to service computers here at work as part of my job I know the fire drill. So I try to give information, like I searched the forums on these keywords or some such statement that says I am not looking for you to solve my issues unless I have first given some effort on my own to figure it out. The responses have been very helpful and I feel I was treated with respect and felt welcome here. In my mind based on the activities in other forums unrealated to 3D anything, this place is and or daz, rdna, etcs forums are nice places to hang out and learn. If you want to get your head handed to you on a silver platter, I can point you to som really crazy places.

Thanks for the link Connie!

grichter - Yeah, these forums are generally full of good & informative people. I've yet to get into a heated battle with anyone, but there's time yet!  :ohmy:

Quote - The backroom went down when we changed the forums over last year. We are supposed to be getting all-new all-singing-and-dancing "community pages" for each forum which will be easy to maintain even for those staff who don't know HTML, which should be a big help in here since I'm the only fluent mod!

Only thing is, I think we asked the programmers for soooo many things to go on them that they're still printing out the list now :lol:

That's good to know. Let's hope it doesn't take another year for that to happen.

Miragebay said   *Just a thought...how about a new forum entitled  "Newbie Questions" or something similar?  That way, those who want to be helpful can, and those who don't want to bother reading don't have to?

Since we know the questions will continue to be asked, at least they could all be posted in the same place;)
*I can see your point, but...

(Warning:  slight flippancy here) ...   I don't think that that would work.   Actually, it might make things worse.   I don't see any advantage in splitting up Poser threads in this way.   After all, the implication is that the most likely people to be on the "Newbie Questions" forum would be people who considered themselves to be "newbies", so they might struggle to get their questions answered.   Would the moderators define who was and who wasn't a newbie and expel unsuitable posts from the main Poser  forum?    And is a  "newbie  question" one that is asked by a  newbie (in which case, who decides whether the questioner is a newbie?) or one that conforms to the type of question expected to be asked by a "newbie" (in which case, any member of the forum could be named and shamed by having his/her closet newbiedom exposed and the errant question sent into newbie exile)?

I think that my solution is best.   If one knows the answer, or thinks one does, one should supply it.   It takes just about as long to refuse an answer (service with a snarl) as to give it.   If somebody really hasn't the time to batter out a couple of sentences on his/her keyboard, what is the point of visiting here?*

"I think that my solution is best.   If one knows the answer, or thinks one does, one should supply it.   It takes just about as long to refuse an answer (service with a snarl) as to give it.   If somebody really hasn't the time to batter out a couple of sentences on his/her keyboard, what is the point of visiting here?"

Agreed.*

Point well made:)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2705949

I guess the new guy wasn't asking for advice in that thread but WOW, I honestly cant believe those responses.

Hmmmm...

I'm an oldie. I came to this community when it was Poser Forum, just before the place came to be called Renderosity. I was at the time, new to being online. I was new to a PC in fact, having come from using an Atari computer (which I still proudly own and love). And new to 3D. I was kindly given Poser 3 by someone I met on the net who had upgraded to Poser 4, which at the time had only been out a few months. Unfortunately, it had no manual. I was clicking on things in the program and finding out what it did. I began asking questions of those whom I saw posting the most. I had no idea at the time WHO I was asking this questions of. Two names come to mind, like Traveler and PhilC. They all were wonderful to me and answered what I am sure were absolutely stupid and/or easy questions. Recently, I read the forums and only comment occassionally because I am quite surprised and sometimes appalled at the unfriendly response to questions. I may have been using Poser since 1998, but there are things I am still learning.  And even I have been unsure of posting a question in the forum these days. But, I still come here and cruise and look a discussion forums for what I can learn.

Quote - > Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

The RTFM answer is a joke, after all, since every "manual" produced with a piece of Windows software in the last ten years (show me an exception, please! I used to believe in technical writing) is worthless dreck.

I remember it being used to direct people to the UNIX manual (or online man pages). Which, generally, were pretty useful.