Quote - > Quote - I've been looking for one those 'foot out of mouth extractors'!  Is this the standard model or the deluxe version with mouth rinse (listerine or soap depending upon bent)? ;)

 

hehehe, you can see a pic here:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1286310&member
I forgot, It's not in my freestuff, but I did make the mesh available for a dl... I think in another forum.
It's an old model I whipped out for bryce, it's not UV mapped, and might be hi polygom, but what the heck, it may be fun playing with it!
www.cb-design.net/footmouth2.zip

I'm serious, I'm making the dead horse flogger next!!!

Impressive.  Time to scramble for the credit card. ;)

Must see the 'dead horse flogger'!  There should be various stages of decay in the 'dead horse' and possibly options for the type of flogger - standard whip, Roman Cat-o-nine-tails, strands, sledge hammer (hmmm), and so on.

It's sad to see this thread diverge so much from the original topic.  I didn't help much, but it was in direct relation to particular features being presented therein.  We should stay the course or find an exit strategy (I have a particularly good one) - something that our government can't do, anyhoo...

Free stuff is wonderful -- no doubt about that. But it doesn't pay for bandwidth. Tell that to CG Share. No doubt much less bandwidth would be required if Free Stuff was all this place was about. Not that I would like that. The Market is good. If CG Share can pay someone for posting Free Stuff, I would imagine that there might be some solid value in having it here at Renderosity, aside from the obvious value to the user.

Poser Pro and some Dingoes Ate my Baby!!

Quote - Free stuff is wonderful -- no doubt about that. But it doesn't pay for bandwidth. Tell that to CG Share. No doubt much less bandwidth would be required if Free Stuff was all this place was about. Not that I would like that. The Market is good. If CG Share can pay someone for posting Free Stuff, I would imagine that there might be some solid value in having it here at Renderosity, aside from the obvious value to the user.

Woah Der Buddy...comparing a site as HUGE as Renderosity with a site that's barely half a year old is just a tad bit silly. We don't even know if ShareCG will live out it's first year yet. It's a new twist on an old idea. Advertising pays for everything. Some sites can survive that way, and some can not. It's a toss of the coin. 

I remember when NetZero was FREE Internet access paid for by advertising. That lasted a few good years but alas, it's now just like the other internet providers. You pay a monthly fee. ShareCG is trying to go an extra mile here as well and pay it's uploaders for content. We have yet to see just how successful this will or will not be.

Quote - Poser Pro and some Dingoes Ate my Baby!!

hehe, someone ought to make a rendering of that!

Quote -

Monger isn't a negative term at least I’ve never heard it used as such.

To the contrary, I've never heard it used as a positive term.  Never heard of a peace-monger, for example, but war-monger is quite common.  LOL

I wasn't really comparing CG share to Renderosity. My point was that Free Stuff draws people to a site. It is a postive value. Even the merchant princes of the Poserverse use Free Stuff as a lure for the cash cows. Personally, I find Cgshare useless as a host. I was unable to upload my original, textured, fully rigged and morphable Nargron character to that site via 56k and had to go to divshare instead. Cgshare wouldn't have paid me anyway, since I didn't intend to start a PayPal account. I would imagine that divshare isn’t a nonprofit organization either, though I am at this point.

Free stuff is a draw for sure.  And it's not a bad way of honing skills for merchants-in-training.

As LostinSpaceman has already pointed out -- the business model for CG Share is quite different from Rendo's.  I wish them success.

Quote - It's sad to see this thread diverge so much from the original topic.  I didn't help much, but it was in direct relation to particular features being presented therein.  We should stay the course or find an exit strategy (I have a particularly good one) - something that our government can't do, anyhoo...

This thread really has gone way-y-y-y-y off the rails -- but as you are well aware: that's not unusual for the forums.

The group can always choose to go back to discussing the features of (or arguing about) Poser Pro -- assuming that everyone votes to drop the current line.  I'm game.  Even an argument about Poser Pro would be more productive than the admitted nonsense that we've gotten sidetracked into now.

"I wasn't really comparing CG share to Renderosity. My point was that Free Stuff draws people to a site. It is a postive value. Even the merchant princes of the Poserverse use Free Stuff as a lure for the cash cows".

Don't get me wrong. This isn't an attack on you, but the cash cows can afford it and don't you think they do it to squash competition? Of course this means everyone who has a site now has to have a fantastic freebie section or they won't get the crowds. People even post freebies because they downloaded so many of others. Psycological retardation of the market. Everything happens because profit comes from someplace.

My logic is simple. If you train the customers/vistors to expect a lot for little to nothing then they'll grow to expect it. The sites will have to grab more percentages to compensate the bandwidth fees and site administration. Preasure will grow to move product faster while the merchant makes less and there will be less demand because so much is available for free. Nobody has yet gained a clear upper hand in the freebie wars in the whole "Poserdom". Could it be everybody is losing including the cash cows? People are not just downloading here. They surf around and grab from everywhere to fill all there needs and if they're good never spend a cent. Checkers is a game of losing peices. The last one out wins the game.

Totally, completely, and utterly OT --

Anyone remember this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEwuBb8u9LI

Or what about this version, with a 9-year-old Japanese girl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eabt9qJjanE

This is another way to waste my time after the day is done.........

Of course as everyone knows, the original version was done by an early-60's British group called the Tornados --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ybCjf6ras&NR=1

Most of the freebies I've seen require a user to own some product or another to use them. Daz, of course, gives away a lot of high quality products, but it's intended to hook a user into their marketplace where one must spend a small fortune to get up to speed with various plugins, morphs, textures, clothing, sets and whatnot. Collectors are insatiable. They will grab every chair, substandard skin and spaceship freebie they can find, AND they will spend in the marketplaces. So far, a myriad of markets have been able to survive. I don't foresee that changing any time soon. And yes, this is off topic, but if these chat boards didn't have such an idiotic (albeit widely used) format, a user might be able to see and skip a sub thread they didn't like.

Quote - I wasn't really comparing CG share to Renderosity.

But you were replying to someone who said Freebies don't pay for bandwidth, I assumed you were saying it could support the bandwidth here. It has yet to prove it can support the bandwidth there.

I'm not aware of the earnings of CG share, though the proliferation of free hosting (as opposed to hosts who actually pay you to upload) would suggest that there is a value in hosting popular content. YouTube sold for quite a bit of money recently and I wouldn’t define that site as a marketplace. No bandwidth complaints there.

Quote - I'm not aware of the earnings of CG share, though the proliferation of free hosting (as opposed to hosts who actually pay you to upload) would suggest that there is a value in hosting popular content. YouTube sold for quite a bit of money recently and I wouldn’t define that site as a marketplace. No bandwidth complaints there.

True, but as has already been pointed out. Some people will buy anything. LOL! YouTube is successfully making money from advertisers who want to pay to have their advertising on what has turned out to be a HUGE Media Center that reaches a HUGE Audience. It's also been funded by BIG Media players who think they see a way to cash in on it. You may not realise it but Media Center's are GOLD because they're based on information exchange and Information is the new Oil Money!

http://www.youtube.com/t/about

Renderosity wasn't always a marketplace either. It started out as a free community called poserforums.com if I recall correctly. I don't know the whole history of it myself, but it went from being a hobbiest community where freebies and sharing were the norm, to what we have now, a Marketplace moved by cashflow. If they wanted to change directions now, it would be pretty hard to do.

I'd even go so far as to predict that the CG site that finds a way to grow partnerships with big media houses like Pixar or LucasFilms, will soon become the dominant CG site on the net.

I think the future is CP and Daz going head to head and while Daz has been getting into the software end big time lately CP has been gathering content and creators as well as partner ships with sites from the four winds who now only make a percentage off of each sale under them. CP now has the largest collection of content available for Poser(I believe anyways) and it's growing. Daz better get back to what they were doing with content because they started a free software move and if Poser suddenly does and they have the widest variety of content anywhere that they could put on sale and give away, they could do some serious damage. I expect those two competing with each other is going to sqaush lots of sites or just absorb them. That's just a guess looking at what's happening.

*So, out of current 10,584 current Poser freebies, looks like at least some 7000 don't require a purchase of another product.

*It has to be said that of those 7000 items at least 75% is substandard quality and pretty much unusable by most of us. That leaves us with 1750 items, still impressive, but...... over 75% of those items can only be used for personal use (which makes it hard to use, since at times I'm doing non personal work and I can't keep track of every license, so I just let it be), so I'm suddenly down to 438 items I could use if I wanted. Now of those 438 items at least 90% is underwear and such, in which I have no interest at all, so in the end I'm left with 50 items or so and that's about the number of free items I've downloaded here.

Even though there are over 10,584 Poser Freebies, I've only downloaded about 50 of them, the rest is to me worthless.... stuff of substandard quality, for personal use only or items I would never use. Going through my runtime folders (12Gb), not even 10% is free stuff and most of it came from CP (the animals) and some from DAZ and only little from all the other places. 

I guess I'm not the only one who's in the same boat, otherwise no merchant would ever sell anything anymore.

Quote - Awwww, you're so darn cute when you're condescending!

But this you should know: I have no use for temper here... I'm just debating. Sorry if it got you riled enough to sink deep into ad hominem territory.

See, you say you have no use for temper here, but yet your argument is laden with feelings and temperament. It's a little like saying "I didn't eat the canary, and have half a yellow wing and couple bird feet sticking out of your mouth."

Pointing out logical fallacies in your argument, which are relevant to your discussion is not ad hominem, darlin’. It's a part of the debate.
Now, if I said something like, your feet stink, therefore you possibly couldn't know what you're talking about, that would be an arrgumentum ad hominem. Which is a personal attack witn no logical connection to the discussion. I have noting against you as a person. However, I don't buy your arguments. If you 'feel' that's argumentum an hominem, perhaps you;re too emotionally involved to carry on a logical debate.

Also, the proper expression is argumentum ad hominem, meaning argument against the man (as opposed to argument against the subject in the debate). Ad hominem would mean 'against the man' and without the preceeding 'argumentum' really doesn't mean much.

However, all that put together does contribute to my wondering about your overall ability to put together a believable argument.

Quote - So... if you're still curious, the reason why I don't bother posting art theory &tc here? Because I like to read them instead. I figure that between all the esoteric stuff I've done in and about Poserdom for all this time, I feel kind of entitled to passively soak in what good stuff I do find.

Does that offend you?
/P

It doesn't offend me at all. I know that people that leech exist. It's a fact of life.
Also, I have no emotional ties to you or to your arguments, and no expectations of your behavior, so there's nothing you can possibly do that could offend me. No matter what socially offensive behavior you attempt to engage in.

However, engaging in socially offensive behaviors only damages your reputation here. You do know that means people will only give less and less value and validity to your arguments.  You speak of wanting a community, but yet you don't want to participate and give back. That kind of an attitude just invalidated great deal of your own arguments.

On the other had you just engaged in a temperamental rhetorical outburst, which is in direct contradiction to your previous statement of having no use for temper in here. I'm not going to try and figure out which statement is true and which isn't. Seeing that you don't mind being duplicitous to try and promote your argument tells me all I need to know.

It just makes you look like you're ticked off that you can't get even more stuff out of people for nothing. Regardless your 'kind of feeling entitled', you aren't. Also, entitlement is not a feeling. It's usually a legal term, and at times indicative of someone's belief. In this in your case, it appears unrealistic. Learning to differentiate between feeling and thinking and spotting faulty reasoning will help you construct a good, believable, logical argument, and it will help you build a more objective and realistic belief system.

Quote - *So, out of current 10,584 current Poser freebies, looks like at least some 7000 don't require a purchase of another product.

*It has to be said that of those 7000 items at least 75% is substandard quality and pretty much unusable by most of us. That leaves us with 1750 items, still impressive, but...... over 75% of those items can only be used for personal use (which makes it hard to use, since at times I'm doing non personal work and I can't keep track of every license, so I just let it be), so I'm suddenly down to 438 items I could use if I wanted. Now of those 438 items at least 90% is underwear and such, in which I have no interest at all, so in the end I'm left with 50 items or so and that's about the number of free items I've downloaded here.

Even though there are over 10,584 Poser Freebies, I've only downloaded about 50 of them, the rest is to me worthless.... stuff of substandard quality, for personal use only or items I would never use. Going through my runtime folders (12Gb), not even 10% is free stuff and most of it came from CP (the animals) and some from DAZ and only little from all the other places. 

I guess I'm not the only one who's in the same boat, otherwise no merchant would ever sell anything anymore.

Very true, I don't make much use of a large number of freebies myself.
However, I was answering Penguinisto's claim that most freeebies won't work without purchasing something else besides the basic program.
Well, they may not be what we want, but great many do work without acquiring other things.

We're all in the same boat, if we want something of good quality or to our specs, and no limitations to copyright, we either have to pay for it, or make it ourselves.
shrug that's just life.  

I don't particularly believe that myself, or anyone else should be getting results of someone else's hard work for free. If I do, I consider it a gift and a bonus.  Most poser models available for purchase are so cheap, that the authors would have to sell between 500-1000 models to cover the cost of their time alone, and would have to sell about three tiomes that many to turn some sort of a profit that would put them into the 'wealthy' category. I doubt each merchant selld more then 20-50 copies of their product. Perhaps up to a few hundred for the more popular ones.

Then there's the big bad 'unspoken' which is the fact that many of the more desired models are soon pirated and downloaded in few hundred or more copies... 

What's that on your tail Connie?

Yeah, I better go turn myself in and save moderators the trouble of giving me a slap on the wrist. 
Which way to the confessional....

Quote - Of course as everyone knows, the original version was done by an early-60's British group called the Tornados --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ybCjf6ras&NR=1

First record I saved up my pocket money to buy! I was ten years old and I'd never had a piece of music really make me feel something before, and don't think I did again until Hendrix's version of All Along the Watchtower some 5 years later.

Very true, I don't make much use of a large number of freebies myself.
However, I was answering Penguinisto's claim that most freeebies won't work without purchasing something else besides the basic program.
Well, they may not be what we want, but great many do work without acquiring other things.

That's true indeed!

*I don't particularly believe that myself, or anyone else should be getting results of someone else's hard work for free. If I do, I consider it a gift and a bonus.  Most poser models available for purchase are so cheap, that the authors would have to sell between 500-1000 models to cover the cost of their time alone, and would have to sell about three tiomes that many to turn some sort of a profit that would put them into the 'wealthy' category. I doubt each merchant selld more then 20-50 copies of their product. Perhaps up to a few hundred for the more popular ones.

*Couldn't agree more.....

*We're all in the same boat, if we want something of good quality or to our specs, and no limitations to copyright, we either have to pay for it, or make it ourselves.

*I'm a modeler myself, but for the price content is offered, it's not even worth spending my time modeling it. It would cost more to model it myself, so I save double when I buy.....

Quote - I'm a modeler myself, but for the price content is offered, it's not even worth spending my time modeling it. It would cost more to model it myself, so I save double when I buy.....

Ha, Very true! 
However, for some reason I keep modelling things... I think in my case it's an ego thing, I like making things. If I weren't making 3D models, I'd be running atound the house taking a powersaw making modifications to furniture... LOL
Honest, I've done that... and it worked out - lucky for me.

Quote - > Quote - Awwww, you're so darn cute when you're condescending!

But this you should know: I have no use for temper here... I'm just debating. Sorry if it got you riled enough to sink deep into ad hominem territory.

 

See, you say you have no use for temper here, but yet your argument is laden with feelings and temperament.

No, really... I thought it was cute!

(you really have to stop assuming so much... ;) ).

Quote - It doesn't offend me at all. I know that people that leech exist. It's a fact of life.

Well, this is interesting.

Maybe I should explain. You see, I'm not your ordinary leech. I, dear madam, am a SuperLeech.

Please, allow me to show you the highlights of my leechiness:

• Hosted hundreds of freebies (gratis) for just over a year (the monthly bandwidth xfer averaged 150GB or so)
• Saved PoserPros from oblivion (by literally talking DAZ mgmt into buying it after Mehndi imploded)
• Set up the DAZ fora (most of the mods still there, I personally chose).
• Wrote the first D|S User Manual and all tutes therein (after Hernandez dropped the ball with naught more than a rough chapter outline)
• Contributed code and worked up the SDK for D|S
• Helped found Faeriewylde (by hosting the DB and maintaining its first server for as long as I was able)

...only two of those were for pay.

So, umm, not to be snide or anything, but: what exactly have you contributed since you arrived? You posted some stuff in the Gallery? Answered a few newbie questions? Please, show me what you can do, or have done.

Quote - However, engaging in socially offensive behaviors only damages your reputation here.

I apparently have no reputation, as evidenced by being declared a leech upon Poserdom. ;)

But my poor reputation aside - what is so socially offensive by pointing out that all may not be cherries and cream around here, and that perhaps a greater focus on community (vs. "money") is needed?

One would think that the only ones offended by that would be, well... merchants.

Quote - It just makes you look like you're ticked off that you can't get even more stuff out of people for nothing.

There go them nasty ol' assumptions again...

In short, you misread what and why I wrote what I did. What I meant (in detail) was that there should be more focus on tutorials, more focus on creating and distributing free stuff that isn't a naked promotion... more focus on community - instead of on, about, and always with... the store. I figure that I feel at least somewhat entitled - to the same benefits as any other ordinary member.

But heya - let me read along w/ the rest of the posts.

Oh, and thanks for further delineating your logical follies, but I don't think it was necessary or anything ;)

/P

Quote - I have instead a question for you: Tell me what percentage of Poser freestuff posted here doesn't require purchasing anything beyond Poser (or downloading D|S). 

Lelle see, V3 is/was free, and that chick has all the clothes.

You may wish to reach back further... V3 came out awhile after Renderosity was founded ;)

Speakin' of clothes, the majority of free stuff usually consists of textures for V3 clothing, and most of that in turn is purchase-only.

Sorry, but simply blurting V3 won't cut it. Too much room for deconstruction there.

Quote - I hear people complaining all the time how most of the stuff is for V3. So, I'd say majority of the free content doesn't require purchasing anything past the Poser.

Non-sequitur. V3 != all morphs, clothing, accessories, etc etc. made for it.

Unless you're asserting that all things made for V3 are automatically free?

We both know better than that.

Quote - Most pf the props that lot of top vendors tend to give away as freebies don't requre purchases. I was looking at stonemason's freenies for example, none of them require purchase of his other things.

That is a prime example of a "No True Scotsman" argument; you'll have to be a bit more conclusive if you're trying to describe a general thing like "Renderosity's free stuff listing".

Quote - 41 pages of freebies for V3 - that's 1443 items.

...just the default V3, or V3 clothing, V3 hair, V3...? You keep forgetting that lots of folks sell lots of things for V3 in the RMP, no?

IOW, you've used a bad search term to reach an erroneous conclusion.

Sorry to disappoint.

/P

Quote - > Quote - Please point out where I said that no one makes money at this. The difference is in how much is made, and the motivations behind it.

 

As for the "motivations behind it", I can suggest a few.  Eating is one that comes to mind.

Heh - if you depend on the RMP for your next meal, you'd best be one of the best there is at mesh-mongering ;)

Meanwhile... let's go over what I had said:

Quote - There was once a time when volume made up for price; back when the RMP here had less than 300 "merchants". There was a time when a solid modeller with an eye on the community could rake in a solid living from just selling stuff here.

Now - it's a flood. Just like a Gold Rush, most of the money has been made; there is still some to be made, but very few will reach the heights once held by the 'big hitters' of 5 years ago. Of course, that doesn't stop the masses from giving it a go.

Yep. Everything seems to be in order... so, let's see what you make of it:

Quote - The obvious implication here being that potential newbie marketeers shouldn't bother; the mines are now exhausted -- every bit of ore that there could conceivably be is already gone. :rolleyes: 

Compared to earlier days, it pretty much is true. Tell me, how many merchants does the RMP have nowadays? Care to draw up a curve showing income ratios among them? I bet it isn;t as generous as it would've been back when the RMP only had 600 merchants.

Quote - Just keep thinking that way -- (the converse philosophy is one reason why Rendo is successful & growing).

No, "Inertia" is why it still exists, coupled with Bondware.

Quote - > Quote -

I have instead a question for you: Tell me what percentage of Poser freestuff posted here doesn't require purchasing anything beyond Poser (or downloading D|S).

Tons.  I've downloaded a lot of it myself.

So now you answer my question.

As soon as I see some number from you, and not generalities ;)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Quote - "And a website which wouldn't exist without the vendors providing the financial wherewithal to run it. "

Really? Why do you insist that such a thing must be true? After all, how many consignment or direct merchants sell things from sites such as Tom's Hardware? Slashdot? Drudge Report? Craigslist? MySpace? Facebook? These sites make quite a bit of bank on advertisement alone... and Craigslist doesn't even do that, IIRC.

I insist on such a thing because it's true -- or I suppose that Rendo could become a subscription site like some other 3D sites are.

A store is one business model.

So you finally admit there are other successful business models worth pursuing, while denying it to be possible at the same time for Rendo?

So, in your opinion, is Rendo that incapable of pursuing such new (and obviously far more successful) avenues of income, or are they just being lazy about it?

I ask this because their current business plan may be great for making themselves money, but it really tends to distract from the actual community aspect of it, esp. anything beyond the "how can I make money offa dis?" aspect of it all.

Quote - Does a website need to be the size of Drudge or Youtube, etc. before it qualifies as a successful one?

Of course not - I merely chose the more obvious examples, in case you decided to try and escape the facts by claiming obscurity of data points. ;)

/P

Quote -
My logic is simple. If you train the customers/vistors to expect a lot for little to nothing then they'll grow to expect it. The sites will have to grab more percentages to compensate the bandwidth fees and site administration. Preasure will grow to move product faster while the merchant makes less and there will be less demand because so much is available for free. Nobody has yet gained a clear upper hand in the freebie wars in the whole "Poserdom". Could it be everybody is losing including the cash cows? People are not just downloading here. They surf around and grab from everywhere to fill all there needs and if they're good never spend a cent. Checkers is a game of losing peices. The last one out wins the game.

Very well said.

/P

Quote -   In short, you misread what and why I wrote what I did. What I meant (in detail) was that there should be more focus on tutorials, more focus on creating and distributing free stuff that isn't a naked promotion... more focus on community - instead of on, about, and always with... the store. I figure that I feel at least somewhat entitled - to the same benefits as any other ordinary member.

And the beatings continue till the morale and the sense of community improves. Eh!
Dude, You're working against your own agenda.

Sounds like not much of what I said sunk in. I really don't have anything new to say.
Kind of a bugger that you have to blow your own horn though... 
You could be king Faruk for all I care, you're still not making a good showing here, IMO.

Quote - First record I saved up my pocket money to buy!

Here's one that I bet NOBODY remembers -- even though it was a chart-topper for 3 months back in 1960 --

......don't ask me why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtMJgeSvPY

Speakin' of clothes, the majority of free stuff usually consists of textures for V3 clothing, and most of that in turn is purchase-only. 

Here's the deal, you're the one whom made claims about statistics and percentages of freebies, so really, the burden of gathering statistics and proof is on you. As I explained, I don't believe much of what you say at face value.
Till you provide more detailed statistics, I believe what I've seen yesterday while looking around the freebies (which is not the same as what you claim.)

Sorry, Pengy -- I'm caught up right now in the middle of a new school building design review deadline over the next couple of days.  So I don't even have the time to read your no doubt illucidating response.  So.....y'all can carry on without me --

-- I had to break typing to mini-conference for a minute.  Have fun!  I'll be back in later to check on your work!

I'll add that I'm certain that something of great significance is being accomplished here -- in the same sense that a moth repeatedly banging its head against a pane of glass represents a significant accomplishment on the moth's part..........

Quote - Sorry, Pengy -- I'm caught up right now in the middle of a new school building design review deadline over the next couple of days.  So I don't even have the time to read your no doubt illucidating response.  So.....y'all can carry on without me --

-- I had to break typing to mini-conference for a minute.  Have fun!  I'll be back in later to check on your work!

I'll add that I'm certain that something of great significance is being accomplished here -- in the same sense that a moth repeatedly banging its head against a pane of glass represents a significant accomplishment on the moth's part..........

I better go model that dead horse flogger .....

Quote - I better go model that dead horse flogger .....

Please do when you have the time -- it'll annoy the right people.  And that's something worth doing.

Thank you!  :lol:

O'm not sure what it should look like... I kind of like Kuroyume's idea of a cat'o'nine tails, perhaps it should have horse heads and hoofs at the ends, perhaps with a long horsehair dangle off the nandle. I need to get the hang of easy-pose anyways, and this may be a good experimental piece.

I think I need to make a 'forum argumentation tools collection' 
It would be fun to take descriptions of the forum trolls (there's a website I've seen somewhere) and model little characters after them...
... and a collection of food that morphs into colorful splats for the food fight thread ;)  Can't wait til take a few ice cream scoops and melt the in Max ;)

I just don't feel like working today, I'm sure you can tell....

Quote -
Here's one that I bet NOBODY remembers -- even though it was a chart-topper for 3 months back in 1960 --

......don't ask me why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtMJgeSvPY

What about this one then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_9MI2ymN6s

Twenty something years after Telstar my 10 year old daughter wasted her pocket money on that as her first record buy. I tried to disuade her, thought it was rubbish, but now she thinks it's rubbish and I think it's a classic. What goes around...

Here's one that I like better.

Anyone ever heard Sukiyaki?  It was a #1 hit here in the States -- the only Japanese song to ever achieve that status.  It's catchy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVIddibrWAM

Quote - Here's one that I like better.

Anyone ever heard Sukiyaki?  It was a #1 hit here in the States -- the only Japanese song to ever achieve that status.  It's catchy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVIddibrWAM

It was a huge hit at the time here too, and again a lesser hit recencently as a mobile phone advert for a Japanese owned network. Oddly the phone networks now seem to be going for total simplicity like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_vw4M0Ern8

Quote - O'm not sure what it should look like... I kind of like Kuroyume's idea of a cat'o'nine tails, perhaps it should have horse heads and hoofs at the ends, perhaps with a long horsehair dangle off the nandle. I need to get the hang of easy-pose anyways, and this may be a good experimental piece.

I think I need to make a 'forum argumentation tools collection' 
It would be fun to take descriptions of the forum trolls (there's a website I've seen somewhere) and model little characters after them...
... and a collection of food that morphs into colorful splats for the food fight thread ;)  Can't wait til take a few ice cream scoops and melt the in Max ;)

I just don't feel like working today, I'm sure you can tell....

I had this wonderful idea to model some dripping merange' today! I wonder why?

Gee you guys are talking about a remove foot from mouth mesh? How about a remove lips from ass mesh for some of the but smoochers?

Quote - Gee you guys are talking about a remove foot from mouth mesh? How about a remove lips from ass mesh for some of the but smoochers?

You volunteering to pose for it? (There's no Smilie for "I'm Teasin' ya") :tt2:

The count down continues for Poser Pro's anounced release date coming this Fall. Will this thread survive? Pleeeeeeease e frontier, release some more information....... That's it, I can't wait any longer. I'm going to imagine how cool it's going to be and make stuff up. :)

It's going to have an all new interface with changable custom skins like a music player has. No wait, I'll be able to just think of what I want in a scene and it will appear the way I imagined it would be posed and everything and be able to import and export all my content no matter what software it was made in. They'll never have to provide a service release ever. It'll be perfect from day one. It'll have a ton of new content, I'll have to get another hard drive for it all. No wait, they'll give me one with it for buying it pre-release. It'll be the most awesome program ever made and my computer will actually run faster and smoother when I'm running it so I'll just add it to my startup so it runs when I boot up and it'll make that happen faster too. It's going to be great! 

You mean it doesn't come preinstalled on it's own brand new QuadCore, 3Ghz machine with 8 gig's of RAM and a 500 Gig HD with Windows Vista Ultimate already setup to network with all my old XP machines for network rendering? Sheesh! I want my money back!

"You mean it doesn't come preinstalled on it's own brand new QuadCore, 3Ghz machine with 8 gig's of RAM and a 500 Gig HD with Windows Vista Ultimate already setup to network with all my old XP machines for network rendering? Sheesh! I want my money back!"

Just tell them what you want in your custom copy. The software elfs will make you a special copy and sprinkle it with their magic elf dust that makes the software become anything you want it to be. Just close your eyes and make a wish when you open the box. What do you think the e is for in e frontier? Elfs!

P.S. no geers about the dust. It's elf dust period. I don't know what it's made of and I don't sniff it. 

I think I like living in your reality Dogor!

Reality is, wish in one hand and uh-uh in the other. Which one's the fullest

I'm getting bummed out. I was merly expressing my Poser developed imagination and adding mystique to the whole software development process. Sorry! :(  lol

k...sorry Pengy...that was the last I heard. 

Anyway...why are folks comparing Carrara Pro and Poser Pro...apples and oranges...

Should more along the likes of Carrara Pro and Shade Pro  9 will have dynamic hair... and such...plus the added benefit of it already being out for a year in Japan.

http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/2269

Quote - I've been looking into Cinema and although the base cost is relatively low, the package I'd want, in order to bring the features into approximate parity with those included in 3DSMax 9, come to about the same total.

CINEMA 4D $895.00 
Advanced Render $595.00 
Dynamics $395.00 
Hair (Pre-order) $395.00 
MOCCA (includes cloth) $595.00 
NET Render $395.00 
Sketch and Toon $595.00
total $3,865.00 

::::: Opera :::::

What will also be interesting is benching the render node software; if it is similar to eon's rendercow, then there could be a significant speed up, with the GUI and memory management offloaded into a manager controller on the master system. So Shade 9 is getting dynamic hair...? Might be time to look at shade again....

My personal experience with Shade goes back to Shade 7 standard. It was impossible for me to model in and learn(what I did learn was it was hard to use). I should have never purchased it. I bought Lightwave and within hours I was modeling with ease. I could understand the tools and there was plenty of support and tutorials in launguage that I could understand. Personally I don't think they'll ever sell a version of Shade that attracts me again and (right now) 80 bucks for Carrara 5 with upgrade to C6 for free (plat club). All the new features in it. sounds like a good deal.

It's only a deal if you belong to the platinum club...I haven't for a long time and don't plan to go back.  Frankly I stopped being impressed with Daz Studio pretty quick and was completely disillusioned with the Bryce 6 release.  I don't like Daz's "We'll get it right eventually" stance.  That's why I've moved from Bryce to Vue and jumped on Shade when it was offered.  I've also recently purchased Manga Studio.  With EF I've come to expect quality models and software options.  I know people feel differently but that's my take on it.  Daz stopped living up to expectations a long time ago for me and I don't have faith that they'll do right by me on a software stance.

Modeling tools are a personal thing imo...Shade works for me...others find other ways of modeling better.  My sister prefers 3ds max.  I never grokked lightwave...I loved Maya but it was out of my reach after school until recently and now I've moved on.

The point was to compare apples to apples.  I managed to get myself into the pro shade upgrade structure a year ago...I'm pretty happy with that.  As for poser...the sheer joy of fiddling with poser is what I like about it that I never got with Studio.  I know there are a lot of folks who won't want to put in the effort (the mythos of Make Art goes pretty deep even if people don't realize that's what they are saying).  That's their choice.

On point of Poser Pro.  I don't need it.  When I eventually get a machine that can take advantage of those features...then I'll probably upgrade...but my computer is over a year old and came out just before the dual core standards and 64bit os craze....so maybe in a couple of years.

Currently all, with all the plugings besides fbx, Daz Studio cost's 124.97...I got Poser for 110.99.  And still Studio doesn't offer all of what poser has.  EF offers side grades to all their products which don't cancel out the upgrades on the cerial number.  I can't get that with Daz. 

Shade Pro which is a professional level product in Japan costs quite a bit more than Carrara Pro at Daz.  However Shade 8.5 already supports Poser 7 and UB and 64 bit.  When you buy Shade you get the UB and the 32 bit and 64 versions of Shade included.  Daz is really pushing Carrara's render capabilites over it's modeling...Carrara offers(there is an expanded list of what all these mean on the daz site.:

Polygonal Modeling

• Soft Selection
• 3D Manipulators
• Smoothing (Subdivision Surfaces)
• New Tools - 2D Curves tools
• Booleans
• Cut tool
• Bevel tool
• Edges tools (Pro Version Only)
• Surfaces tools(Pro Version Only

But then Daz want's you to buy their models.

Shade pro modeling features are as follows(this is the expanded list from the datasheet):

Curved Surfaces X X
Revolve Object X X
Bevel Modeling X X
Polygon Mesh X X
Boolean Modeling X X
Meta Mesh X X
Regular Polyhedron X X
Arc X X
Spiral Line X X
TextEffector X X
Lattice Deformer X X
Twist Deformer X X
Curved Surface Transformer X X
Magnet Tool X
Ball Joint X
Bone & Skin X X
Auto Smoothing/ Interpolate X
MagicalSketch 2 X
Object Alignment / Arrangement X
Line Fit X
RoomPlanner X
Cut/Connect Curves X X
Display Normal Line X X
Display Start of Line Object X X
Eye Target Sets Focal Length X X
Link Object (Master Object) X X
Mesh Editing X X
Lasso / Trace Selection

The other features of Shade are simularly expanded over Carrara Pro. 

Now Carrara 9 promises to include new features...however it looks as if Daz is going through with their promise to intergrate Carrara and Bryce.  Ie the Ocean primitave which has been in Bryce since at least version 4 perhaps version 3... if not earlier.  I don't have interest in that...I can do water in Shade...or since I'm a Vue customer....in Vue...or even in Poser or I can just load up my trusty Bryce 5 and have a go...not that ga ga over it.  Carrara can get some of Poser 6's features imported...but no work on if they are going to up that to 7 like Shade and Vue and other high end apps.

1. Ocean Primitive (Original Forum Page 1)  See Above

2. Non-Linear Animation (Original Forum Page 13)  This is perhaps the most interesting feature...but for me not a grabber...I do stills not animation.

3. Dynamic Hair (Original Forum Page 14) Coming in Shade 9..available in Poser which can be imported into Vue or Shade already.

4. Symmetrical Modeling (Original Forum Page 19) Already available in Shade. 

5. Direct X Import/Export, Open GL Improvements, More Hair (Original Forum Page 23)   again available in Shade

6. Displacement Modeling (Original Forum Page 32)  Nifty...this is what you can do in in Poser but probably not as well (we won't know till it comes out)  Shade 9 does not list this...other implementations on a pro level are Mud Box and ZBrush...

7. Full DAZ Studio Content Support & Improved Content Browser (Original Forum Page 42) Shug...not a sale point for me.

8. Rigid Body Simulation (Original Forum Page 51) This looks like fancy way of saying Physics.  Shade has been concentrating on it's particle physics more...but again...I'm not an animator.

9. Depth of Field Improvements (Original Forum Page 60)....shrug...everyone works on this and has this...

10. Shadow Bias (Original Forum Page 74)  Called something different in Shade but already included.

11. In-Scattering (Original Forum Page 79) That's a new term for in direct lighting...already available...I wonder if they got this from Bryce.

12. Landscape Wizard(Original Forum Page 97)  I'm sorry but I snorted my milk here...IT'S A MAKE ART BUTTON!!!!!  lol   It looks lifted from Bryce.  Shrug...I'm not against it...in landscape software it's actually very useful to have a good starting point when you are a beginner. 

13. Euler Angles For Rotations(Original Forum Part 2 Page 10)...another way to move objects...sure why not?  They also show hair being used for grass...I use the Poser hair room primairly for grass...alot of people do this....

14. Conforming (Original Forum Part 2 Page 16) Um..okay great for putting clothes on in Carrara I guess.

15. RENDER TIME DISPLACEMENT ON TERRAINS (Original Forum Part 2 Page 19) K this doesn't really sound that different...or that spiffy from other programs that use displacement.  I'd have to see it in action to get the idea I guess.

Carrara looks like a step into Daz's uber app ideal.  It's a modeler...that compares well with Shade in a lot of areas but they are starting to combine Studio and Bryce into it.  I agree It's a good way to start for the 300$ pro version...I don't know that the 80 version is really worth it by comparison...

Still Daz relies on Poser to make models though...no iffs about it...you still can't make a model posable with out it.  I don't see that changed in Carrara. 

Shade has it's own rigging system...so does Poser...Vue can use Posers.  Until Daz either comes up with their own rigging system (or just pay for Poser SDK...but then EF won't pay for for theirs so oh well on that score(don't give me the crap that the Daz SDK is free..it's not and you only get a partial refund if you sell through Daz's store for a certain amount of time)) they will still be catering to poser...once they pass that hurdle I believe that they will finish their break away.  But who really knows, except for Steve...and he has trouble forming words on a regular basis(no it's not kind).

The reality is that Daz is creating a project that is just as cobbled together as Poser is.  Will it work?  We'll see...I'm not that impressed but others will be..others will defect to high end apps or to the medium end of EF. 

.