this is poserpro, latest SR....

I uploaded my scene file. I had to modify it a little because I was using an image for the IBL. Rather than have you download an image as well, I changed the IBL shader to be procedural.

It is on this page:

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/misc

The file is ibltest.pz3.

I set up specific render dimensions in it, so you will get exactly the same composition as I did.

See if you get different results with it.

ok that rendered as expected, exact to yours.
so.... examines your setup

Quote - ok that rendered as expected, exact to yours.
so.... examines your setup

Whew! I was about to have a hissy fit.

It's funny - I take for granted all the subtle little differences I do from other people. I don't even know what I'm doing differently from the rest of the population anymore. I've done so many thousands of AO, lighting, and shader experiments, that I guess I do things differently without even thinking about it.

For example, I bet you had Diffuse_Value = 1.0. I never do that. But that is the default for primitives.

thanks mate :)

hmm good point about the Diffuse value.. lets try that..

Kai, I see another little quality difference in your render. I see some AO breakaway at the very bottom of the ball. This tells me your AO ray bias is too high.

I'll fix that...

Everything is better. The bounced light matters a lot. The AO just blocks the IBL, but doesn't take into account the lighting from the ground onto the bottom of the ball. The occlusion shadow here is much more realistic. And the overall color is better.

The scene has IBL color RGB .8, 1, 1 (a pale cyan) and the Main light color is RGB 1, 1, .8 (a pale yellow). The combination gives a green cast to the Poser Pro render and also to the P8 render without IDL and HSVETM.

But the colors I used should look like this, IMO.

I'll be P8'less till early november  at the earliest :(

Quote - I uploaded my scene file. I had to modify it a little because I was using an image for the IBL. Rather than have you download an image as well, I changed the IBL shader to be procedural.

It is on this page:

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/misc

The file is ibltest.pz3.

I set up specific render dimensions in it, so you will get exactly the same composition as I did.

See if you get different results with it.

can someoen who has poser pro or 7 open this file and render it out? i want to see if it is the same.

i really think that the AO was only in the shadow area.

ice-boy:

Kai did that. He said:

Quote - ok that rendered as expected, exact to yours.
so.... examines your setup

Then he found that my lights were 50%, not 100%, and that makes a huge difference.

ok am i getting crazy now?

i really think it was different.

Did you remove your previous Poser when you installed Poser 8? 

yes. i dont want any problems on my windows if both are instaled.

thats good right?

One quick question in between but isn't IDL not the same as radiosity? Or is it completely something different?

regards,
Bopper.

Quote - yes. i dont want any problems on my windows if both are instaled.

thats good right?

There is absolutely no problem having both installed. I have P8 and PPro here no problems. Each can use the other's runtime, too.

Quote - One quick question in between but isn't IDL not the same as radiosity? Or is it completely something different?

regards,
Bopper.

Same purpose, different implementation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiosity_(3D_computer_graphics)

agreed I've got poser 5, 6, 7 and Pro installed here. all seperate installs but shared external runtimes. (5/6 are now for testing only... and I'm to lazy to remove 'em!)

I don't want to hyjack the thread here away from AO but I would like to hear BBs thoughts on the skin node. I'm making an object using the skin node and it looks good in poser 6. But when I bring it into P8, the skin looks like its glowing (no ambient, but it looks like it). How can we play with the skin node not to look "blown out"?

The best way to use the skin node is to keep it out of skin shaders. ;-)

The skin node has ambient in it. Think of the skin node as another whole PoserSurface with a lot of nodes inside that you can't see. It's nonsense nowadays. I once looked at the RSL equivalent of it and it has no place in Poser 8 with IDL.

in order for it to not be blown out i had to set the diffuse almost black and turn the light down

Quote - > Quote - yes. i dont want any problems on my windows if both are instaled.

thats good right?

There is absolutely no problem having both installed. I have P8 and PPro here no problems. Each can use the other's runtime, too.

now i am angry.

why god why :)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - yes. i dont want any problems on my windows if both are instaled.

thats good right?

There is absolutely no problem having both installed. I have P8 and PPro here no problems. Each can use the other's runtime, too.

now i am angry.

why god why :)

You really want to reinstall several hundred gigs of content ? (potentially)

Poser 8 will produce a similar appearance if you have a very weak IBL. The attached image above is from P8.

This is one of those cases where trusting your eyes is a mistake. There is an occlusion shadow all around the ball, even in the lit areas. How we perceive it is very different than what it is. You must not trust your eyes so much.

For example, look at this render.

A and B are exactly the same color. Perhaps you don't believe it? Sample the colors in Photoshop. They are both RGB 120, 120, 120.

When we observe a highly simplistic 3D scene with strong light and shadow cues, our brains do strange things.

aha this makes sense. ok

does this still work in poser 8? 
because i now tryed the shader and it doesnt make ground invisible with dark AO on top.

something that also doesnt work for me in poser 8.
in poser 7 i connected an AO node in the diffuse channel.for the ground. then i used those render settings.

it renetered everything white but with AO shadows on the ground. was very practical

the question is is my computer damaged. is something wrong with my poser 8?

or

or did SM made changes and made it worse? rendering is art. sometimes people want to combine backgrounds and renders in photoshop. for this we need some tools to render out passes. for AO we used tricks and it worked. now it looks like it doesnt.

Something has changed. AO plugged into transparency (directly or indirectly) produces a different pattern than AO plugged into any luminance channel, such as anything diffuse. I am sick today - perhaps Swine flu, who knows - and don't feel like investigating.

But something is definitely different with AO. I was about to show you what I found, but P8 crashed and lost the scene. Sigh.

Thanks to BB for linking to this thread from a new one I created, asking about the same topic earlier today.  I'll just follow up the question via this thread.

Ok, using the example from your original post, I set up an AO node on the material for the floor I'm using and tweaked it a bit to try and suit my scene.  This is what I got:

Now... how do I soften the contact shadow under her left foot?  It's looking a bit rough at the moment.  Also, should the shadow under the tip of her right heel be there?

Problem solved.  I forgot to enable IDL in the render settings, and to tell the AO node to evaluate IDL.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to apply the same technique to her feet and torso.  She's wearing a blue velvet dress, but I'm having trouble creating contact shadows between her sandals and dress straps:

I've got an AO node on the Diffuse Value of her 2_SkinTorso and 3_SkinFoot with these settings in inches:

Samples: 10
MaxDist: 3.0
RayBias: 0.4

With IDL you don't need AO. You must have the IDL parameters messed up. IDL includes contact shadows.

In any case, what is your Poser Display Unit set to? Is it inches? If so, you need to decrease the RayBias. At .4 inches, nothing closer than .4 inches will produce a shadow.

Also, I usually prefer Samples = 7, since the quality difference with 10 is tiny and not worth the extra render time.

Also, I usually set the MaxDist to a much larger number - the AO node seems to treat that value at about 1/10th what you think you're setting it to. I use 48 to 60.

Quote - With IDL you don't need AO. You must have the IDL parameters messed up. IDL includes contact shadows.

Oh, right.  AO is just a way to fake IDL, and AO nodes aren't compatible with IDL anyway.

After following another thread of your's from a couple years ago - I was trying to figure out how remove nostril glow as well - I finally discovered why I wasn't getting any contact shadows even with IDL enabled.  The shadow map on my main light was set at the default 256 with a Min Shadow Bias of .8.  I had no idea what either of them were or what they controlled, so I never bothered with them.   Once I set my shadow map to 1000 and the bias at .1, I got contact shadows and eliminated my character's nostril glow.

:)

Depth shadow mapping is resource intensive, a huge memory hog.  You are better off just using raytracing and a low shadow bias on your primary light.  I never had to push any mapping resolution using that combination.

I must have gone through the same tuts of BBs as you mention here: I learnt so much from watching his help threads. I Also never gave a second thought to those same light settings/changes, and the realisation was almost, well, a gift from high above...!! Thanks again BB...

This is an old thread, but I'm reviving it.  I have been working on a render and it looked flat and pasted. I had to dig this thread out in order to review the AO.  It is definitely what the image needed.  I thought others might be interested in either a review, or if they haven't seen the thread before, learning something new to give more realism to their images.

Thanks again BB!

Yep - worth a look - unless you have Poser 8 or PPro 2010. With those I use IDL instead if IBL+AO.

Yes have to agree with Acadia fully...

This thread taught me how to add 'punch' to otherwise dull, flat and lifeless renders...

Hi,

I've been trying to follow this thread, and have tried the IBLTest.pz3 file in my Poser5 but it keeps asking for 'sky6.jpg' and for 'NO_MAP' - is there any chance someone has these files that I could use?

Quote - Hi,

I've been trying to follow this thread, and have tried the IBLTest.pz3 file in my Poser5 but it keeps asking for 'sky6.jpg' and for 'NO_MAP' - is there any chance someone has these files that I could use?

Not going to happen because they're copyrighted. You could choose a different IBL image.

Or, since the thread is very old, ignore all that: if you have Poser 8 or later use BB's env sphere and IDL (without AO).

I'm not sure Bb's sphere works with poser 5....

Quote - > Quote - Hi,

I've been trying to follow this thread, and have tried the IBLTest.pz3 file in my Poser5 but it keeps asking for 'sky6.jpg' and for 'NO_MAP' - is there any chance someone has these files that I could use?

Not going to happen because they're copyrighted. You could choose a different IBL image.

Or, since the thread is very old, ignore all that: if you have Poser 8 or later use BB's env sphere and IDL (without AO).

Sorry, but Poser5 is IT.  It's all I have.

Okay, so what is 'NO_MAP'?  And where does it go and what can I use to replace it?

Ditto 'sky6.jpg'

Surely a sphere is a sphere?  It looks like a simple sphere:

I believe the material nodes it uses to achieve it's "radiosity" do not exist in Poser 5.

Laurie