I rely on wonderful freebies. I dont spend a dime on this hobby anymore.

It's called greed, everyone wants to make a fast buck so they make the same items over and over again the only thing they do is change the textures.

How many cross-eyed Vickies can you render in oneday? LOL.

Tell you what, Sean -- we'll agree to work together to save the Poserverse from itself  -- next week.  Another thread or two in the forum should do the trick.  It's worked up until now........so there's no reason why it shouldn't continue to work on into the future.

We can take mutual credit for making it all happen with our forum posts -- and then split the resultant take 50-50.  I'm sure that SM, DAZ, et al will give us a contract for our efforts on their behalf.

Stay if you like, and be welcome -- or go if that's your decision.  Such personal choices are free, and no one can legitimately criticize you for your choice either way.

Quote - I rely on wonderful freebies. I dont spend a dime on this hobby anymore.

It's called greed, everyone wants to make a fast buck so they make the same items over and over again the only thing they do is change the textures.

How many cross-eyed Vickies can you render in oneday? LOL.

It's been pointed out elsewhere -- but the massive bandwidth requirements for freebies wouldn't be possible to fill without a steady income stream coming from somewhere.  Someone foots the bill for the general community access to those freebies -- all "greed" aside.

I only do this as hobby.

For me, myself and I, I prefer freebies.

I don't even render Vickie anymore.

The marketplace wont starve with out my money.

Yes and when the frebies are no longer around because the price of bandwidth is to much. Remember what was paying for it. That is what XENO means by "Someone foots the bill for the general community access to those freebies."

Just go strait to CG share? Just Google it. Even those folks can annoy you with their shameless promotions of their for sale products. It's the guilt technique I guess. They give you so many freebies, but then buy nothing?

My wish is a site with 1-2 dollar items. Lots of them. No club fee or nothin'. Just prices that keep the the site and contributors going. The outfits are getting smaller and smaller so why not lower prices. Besides how many items are there that if you made it you couldn't sell it for more than a buck that just end up free? Yet it would be better than nothing. Look at this store. Throwing away stuff that doesn't sell. I can't afford to buy every item in this MP. I don't make that much and neither does most people. Some never sells because it's not very high on everyone's priority list yet they'd still like to get it if they could. Some just isn't worth more.

dogor,

Quote -
My wish is a site with 1-2 dollar items. Lots of them. No club fee or nothin'. Just prices that keep the the site and contributors going.

Then start designing, modeling, uvmapping, texturing, shading, rigging, testing, rendering promos, packaging, dealing with the upload process and the two week wait to get it into the store, and customer service now so we can have lots of your wonderful 2 dollar models.   I look forward to seeing them.

Sean, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one figure obsession of yours. There are so many other figures out there that people prefer to use over any one figure. This reminds me of when V4 came out and this thread was similar to one that was in the news groups about V3 and how obsessed people where with V3 and I was using at the time  V1 and V2.  I did upgrade to V3 and have spent  much more on V3 than either previous version.
Right now I am not much into rendering and more into clothing creation. I am working on a new set of outfits for Kururu (my new favorite female) and I might if they do well make something for other females.  I have also started on new chapter for me in poser, creating figures/props that are not just static objects as I have done in the past. I am trying to spend  time away from here and more time on my site and with my projects but someone(s) keeps messaging me you gotta read this thread!

I am very happy this morning.  I've been looking for a bald hair texture for M3 for a week, now, and this morning I stumbled upon this combover.  I'm sure he'll be a hit with all the perky Barbie V4s :)

Quote - Well campers, since were all interested in cutting to the chase here, lets do that.

Merchants create stuff they think will sell.  There not going to do otherwise, regardless of what opinions might be expressed or any underlying motivations or agenda's behind those opinions.  If you have this many merchants making so many items that are the same, that should be a clear indicator that those items are selling well enough to keep the merchants in question creating those items.

Now, if you wish to "fix" this, there is one way and one way only.  As they old expression goes, money talks, bs walks.  So, put together an organization or group or whatever and get as many other disgruntled we hate sexy vicky outfit people as you can, and everytime you see an item that isn't in this category each and every one of you rush out and buy it.

Bolster the sales for the items you find "worthy", and boycott the rest.  If you do this, the merchants will respond and start creating more items like those.  Until then all of this is just shouting to the wind, because merchants are not going to spend a lot of man hours producing products that are "worthy" if they don't sell.

If you want meshes other than Vicky or Mike, do the same.  And when a new figure does come out, get a group of people together and start cranking out as much free or low cost add on stuff as you can as quickly as you can and get it out there post haste. 

If you do that a new figure has a chance of taking hold in the market place.  If you don't it won't, it's simply a matter of inertia as I said before.  People don't want to invest money in a figure that won't get much support, and merchants don't want to support a new figure until they are reasonably sure that people will buy products for it.

So when it's all said and done it's not about morality, artistic freedom or expression, pro vrs amatuer, or anything of the sort.  It all comes down to the almighty dollar.  That's the only "opinion" that the merchants will truly care about in the end, because all the critical acclaim in the world doesn't put food on your table.

And that is the only "chase" to cut to in this whole argument :)

Yea, but... that takes much more effort then posting one's complaints on the forum....
:lol:                                               ................................................................[ducking and running------------>>>

Quote-"Then start designing, modeling, uvmapping, texturing, shading, rigging, testing, rendering promos, packaging, dealing with the upload process and the two week wait to get it into the store, and customer service now so we can have lots of your wonderful 2 dollar models.   I look forward to seeing them."

No!!! You lay down too many conditions with it. What do you expect for a dollar or two? When you go into a dollar store or a flea market if you have one where you live, do you expect top of the line items? No you don't, but for a buck or two you buy it anyways even when the English on the package is so bad you can't read it.  I don't want a bunch of harsh terms of service or ultra high quality control with it. For a buck you could remap or re-texture and or tweak in some way.. I say 50 cents even is better than zero, but who has a place where they do that?

I can buy songs all day for under a dollar and they require bandwidth too. I imagine that it was harder to make the song also. But the it's the same in terms of copy, copy, copy. Sell a million and it adds up. Shoot, sell 1000 even. Oh, well I tried and got "put" in my place. See ya

dogor,

Quote - Quote-"Then start designing, modeling, uvmapping, texturing, shading, rigging, testing, rendering promos, packaging, dealing with the upload process and the two week wait to get it into the store, and customer service now so we can have lots of your wonderful 2 dollar models.   I look forward to seeing them."

No!!! You lay down too many conditions with it. What do you expect for a dollar or two? When you go into a dollar store or a flea market if you have one where you live, do you expect top of the line items? No you don't, but for a buck or two you buy it anyways even when the English on the package is so bad you can't read it.  I don't want a bunch of harsh terms of service or ultra high quality control with it. For a buck you could remap or re-texture and or tweak in some way.. I say 50 cents even is better than zero, but who has a place where they do that?

I can buy songs all day for under a dollar and they require bandwidth too. I imagine that it was harder to make the song also. But the it's the same in terms of copy, copy, copy. Sell a million and it adds up. Shoot, sell 1000 even. Oh, well I tried and got "put" in my place. See ya
dogor,

You're joking.  That list is only part of what it takes to put a product up for sale, whether (and IF) it sells for one dollar or fifty dollars.  I didn't even include the cost of hardware and software, time to learn it, etc.  nor opportunity cost.

If you want cheap models and can do them for a dollar, go for it.

"We lose a nickel on every sale but we make up for it in volume."

*quote: 'My wish is a site with 1-2 dollar items. Lots of them. No club fee or nothin'. Just prices that keep the the site and contributors going.'

This could actually work if the site's entire product line consisted of products that have had their day in the sun via the traditional venues and were only going to be retired anyway. That, and perhaps some smaller items that may not have made it into larger packages and hence, larger stores.

I have to find a new home for my freestuff sets anyway and maybe I'll look into setting something like this up. Since I don't know jack about setting up sites if anyone else was interested in the idea let me know. I know I have a hell of a lot of products that are just sitting in storage doing no good for anyone. Perhaps if enough vendors got warm to the idea we could have an enormous repository for old(er) products that would fit the niche dogor described :)

• Rick

Cool!  You know I try not to do this very often,  but I was thinking.  Daz teams up with Mogware.  Starts putting Poser content into video games.  How long will it be before some entreprenuer puts the Poser content they bought into their own video games.

Picture this.  You've just spent 6 months creating the mighty morphing jockstrap.  Place it in the market for $20.00  and make 2 bills in sales.  Now,  your kid tunes up for the latest gotta have video game.  So you run them to wal-mart.  Stand in front of the display case and ask" what game do you want?"  " I want mighty morphing jockstrapman!" Your blood runs cold as you see your model,  morphs and textures in a video game that has sold 250,000 copies in one month!  Someone made money hand over fist off of your work,   that you sold for a sawbuck.

If you doubt this check out "Sims" in the copyright forum.

No wonder vendors are holding back.

patorak, the licenses are for rendered images of the models, not the models themselves which may not be redistrbuted.  Oh, and if you place it in the market for $20, you get one bill, not two.

Quote - I have to find a new home for my freestuff sets anyway and maybe I'll look into setting something like this up.

• Rick

Check your site mail ;)

I pulled my freebies from rendo and they are now hosted here:  http://forum.okcrandy.com/

As my product line grows, anything that gets retired from rendo store will be sold at Randy's site too.

Quote - Cool!  You know I try not to do this very often,  but I was thinking.  Daz teams up with Mogware.  Starts putting Poser content into video games.  How long will it be before some entreprenuer puts the Poser content they bought into their own video games.

Picture this.  You've just spent 6 months creating the mighty morphing jockstrap.  Place it in the market for $20.00  and make 2 bills in sales.  Now,  your kid tunes up for the latest gotta have video game.  So you run them to wal-mart.  Stand in front of the display case and ask" what game do you want?"  " I want mighty morphing jockstrapman!" Your blood runs cold as you see your model,  morphs and textures in a video game that has sold 250,000 copies in one month!  Someone made money hand over fist off of your work,   that you sold for a sawbuck.

If you doubt this check out "Sims" in the copyright forum.

No wonder vendors are holding back.

Which is one of the big reasons I don't want to offer my freebies commercially. If you make them commercially free for poser community, you have to make them commercially free for the whole world - there's no distinction between markets.

As for the purchase items, I think there's a license restriction to this, so if the outfit is legit, at least you have some recourse.

*Oh, and if you place it in the market for $20, you get one bill, not two.

Ohhhh Muralist ...

In my neighborhood a bill is $100.00.  A sawbuck is $20.00 

*patorak, the licenses are for rendered images of the models, not the models themselves which may not be redistrbuted. 

ahahahahaha...snort...AHAHAHAHAHA!...You really need to get out of the 'burbs and visit the city sometime.
* *
*Which is one of the big reasons I don't want to offer my freebies commercially. If you make them commercially free for poser community, you have to make them commercially free for the whole world - there's no distinction between markets.

As for the purchase items, I think there's a license restriction to this, so if the outfit is legit, at least you have some recourse.

Connie grab a seat.  You're right!  I think vendors better start adopting a rolling EULA.

Quote-"You're joking.  That list is only part of what it takes to put a product up for sale, whether (and IF) it sells for one dollar or fifty dollars.  I didn't even include the cost of hardware and software, time to learn it, etc.  nor opportunity cost.

If you want cheap models and can do them for a dollar, go for it."

Nope, not joking. The cost of hardware. Hmmm, lets see. Blender and a free download of UV Mapper and a copy of Poser 5 or Daz Studio and a text editor. I'll go better. Lightwave 8.5 and a copy of UV Mapper Pro and Poser 7 and Microsoft Word. Of course the ability to use them all, maybe not as good as some can just thought I'd mention that because not many can and been doing it for a long time. Think that does it.

It would work. Probably make money like gang busters if enough people took part. When this happens someday you don't have to participate either. It would be voluntary I'm sure so don't worry unless your the competition.

dogor,

*It would work. Probably make money like gang busters if enough people took part. When this happens someday you don't have to participate either. It would be voluntary I'm sure so don't worry unless your the competition.

What's that?  I dropped my cigar and missed it.

Quote - Quote-"You're joking.  That list is only part of what it takes to put a product up for sale, whether (and IF) it sells for one dollar or fifty dollars.  I didn't even include the cost of hardware and software, time to learn it, etc.  nor opportunity cost.

If you want cheap models and can do them for a dollar, go for it."

Nope, not joking. The cost of hardware. Hmmm, lets see. Blender and a free download of UV Mapper and a copy of Poser 5 or Daz Studio and a text editor. I'll go better. Lightwave 8.5 and a copy of UV Mapper Pro and Poser 7 and Microsoft Word. Of course the ability to use them all, maybe not as good as some can just thought I'd mention that because not many can and been doing it for a long time. Think that does it.

It would work. Probably make money like gang busters if enough people took part. When this happens someday you don't have to participate either. It would be voluntary I'm sure so don't worry unless your the competition.

dogor,

I think you should really show us how it's done, and do it yourself - rather then just talking about it!  :lol:
And where exactly do you get your sales figures of 1000 pieces... even Aery Souls hottest items din't sell in that many pieces, AFAIK.
Top merchants count their items in few hundred pieces if they're lucky, the rest of the crowd, two to four dozen or so.  If the item is sold here for $5.00, the merchant gets $2.50 (which are pretty much your dollar pieces).
Take a look at the quality that many pieces have for that price. Not something youll be able to make with the software you're listing. Not even close.

That's coming from someone that actually makes content, not someone like you whom just speculates how quick and easy it must be to make it.

Since when has Aery Soul ever sold his stuff for a dollar or two? Since when have any of the hottest items ever sold for as little as two bucks?

But hey wait a minute. Did I suggest they sell for that cheap. No. Go back and read my post.

We all know you're good ConnieKat8. So go ahead and boast that ability. Just rain all over us nobodies if you like. Put me in my place. I ain't talking trash. There are bunches of items already gone from the market that will find another home or vanish forever or just become free items someplace else or be sold someplace else. It's not about me. Or you!

Quote - Doesn't really work. They do have a group at Daz that tries this but as merchants will tell you, lots of gripping and talk but only a few, in these groups actually buy. So can you blame the mechants for pimping the female stuff?

Don't blame the merchants for anything they do - it's there time, effort and energy they spend in developing, so if whatever they feel like creating is entirely up to them.

Quote - It is true that you see 50 of the same thing with very little difference. I swear that many of the clothes are done with the same mesh with a slight different cut. Maybe it's all these quick clothing apps that there are like Fashion Shop or whatever it's called, PhilC's clothing creation software, all the merchant resource products. Maybe the market is so saturated that everything is just one big blur now.

Could be, I don't really buy much though so I don't keep a very close eye on the market as a whole  I peruse every now and again just to see if there's anything out there that grabs my attention, but for the most part I haven't seen a whole lot that does.   When I do use Poser I'm not generally using V3, V4, etc and I've never really needed to render a scantily clad woman so for the most part I don't buy much from the marketplace.

Quote - Seems everyone wants to be a merchant, except me, with thoughts of riches and fame. Could be why some tell the newbies it is so hard to do in hopes of less competition but as I said in an earlier post, it discourages some fresh young blood, which is something this community needs. It is getting stale.

 
Dunno, I create a lot of my own content so I have a pretty good idea just how much time it takes, and from the prices I've seen in the marketplace I can't imagine anyone ever getting rich being a vendor for Poser items.  Toyed with the idea of releasing some of my own stuff eventually, but to be honest I'm just not sure if it's even worth the time to package it, at least not at this point.  Perhaps someday, but right now I have bigger fish to fry :)

Take the fight outside,  you two.  And don't start until the bets have been placed!

Quote - And that's the point where I, too, disagree -- as Tashar does.  Half-a-dozen (or even fifty.....an unlikely number) people organizing a boycott does not a mass market movement make.  On the other hand -- it might make for some briefly entertaining forum reading.

Everyone has an ideolgically-driven idea about how to "save" the Poserverse from itself -- and it's a frequent topic of hand-wringing discussion in the various forums.  So far, the Poserverse has continued to grow & expand on its own regardless, and in spite of the dire predictions to be found in those myriad -- lost -- threads.  The Poserverse doesn't seem to need -- or want -- anyone to save it from itself.  It seems to be chugging along quite happily without the help.

I was merely pointing out that would be the only way to combat the "problem" as presented, but I don't for a moment  thing it would be effective either.  You'd never hold such a group together, for one thing, and you'd never be able to get enough people interested to make it work.

As to saving the Poser Universe, again something I have little to no interest in doing.  I just don't see Poser's development heading in what I consider ot be the right direction.  The areas I really want someone to be working on have more or less stagnated since Version 5, and the areas I have no interest in seem to be the only ones getting any attention in the development cycle.

So while I'll probably own and use a copy of Poser for quite some time to come, it's doubtful I'll be upgrading anytime soon, and in fact I've already started looking at coding an opensource replacement.  It will take some time, granted, but in the long run I think it will be well worth it.

You know ConnieKat8 you really must not be that good if you think the software I listed can't make a string bikini. You're just out to get me aren't you?

dogor,

Seriously though,  do you all think there will be a Poser market when gas hits $5.00 a gal.

Quote - "Merchants create stuff they think will sell.  There not going to do otherwise, regardless of what opinions might be expressed or any underlying motivations or agenda's behind those opinions"

Yep. This is true. What isn't necessarily true is that the ONLY thing that sells is female human models. There are plenty of us who do other types of products.

I was one of the first PAs at DAZ. Been with them 7 years now, and I've made my living for those 7 years selling models of houses and furniture. I didn't start doing them because I thought they'd sell, but because I enjoyed it (and still do). But once I discovered they sold, I saw no reason to suddeny stop and jump on the 'skimpy barbie' bandwagon.

I spent 20 years as a fashion photographer, which might explain my boredom with 'pretty girls'. Whatever it may be, I still find it more challenging to deal with real-world items, and flexible housing systems that give the user the options to build what they want (Room Creator). At this point, I'm exlploring other types of models, more along the lines of junk, grunge and debris. I fully expect them to sell well enough to let me continue doing what I do, without starving.

So, yes, I agree with sean. I see too many 'pretty renders' around. But I don't blame the tools. If I were to blame anyone, (which I don't), it would be the people who use them. But as a merchant, it's not up to me to tell people what to buy or how to use it. I do what I do, and let the customers decide what they want to buy.

mac

Quote - Your oh so clever observations about sexism and the effects of gravity on water are about as relevant to that as the latest exploits of Paris Hilton are to the political situation in Rwanda.

Lol.. theirs a great visual - Paris Hilton in Rwanda - "Wow, that's hot.  BANG!  Wow, that hurts."  Lol...

Quote - My point, in case you've missed it in the last five pages, is that the program has stagnated, nearly to the point of anthropy. It has hit a serious plateau in development. It's gotten boring. And if you cant understand why that's happened, then there's no point in telling you. You'll simply sit there and sing LALALALA even more loudly.

I agree that the software itself has hit a plateau in development, but I'm not sure if that's really something that can be placed at the feet of the community as a whole.  That really has more to do with the developers (past and current) of the Poser program itself.

Quote - So go buy another V4 character. Do it with my blessing. It only continues the stagnation, which, I gather, you like because, for you, that's all this program is about: making pictures of pretty girls. And hurrah for you if thats the case. But some of us would like to see this program doing more. Some of us would like to see the community as fertile with ideas as it was five years ago. Some of us would like to see Poser become innovative again, not merely decorative as it is now.

But sadly I think again this really isn't going to be possible given the inherint limiations of the current software, and it doesn't realy look like SM is interested in addressing those limitaitons, rather it has chosen to try to integrate Poser with other, much more expensive 3d apps instead. 

Quote - Of course, saying this to you is indeed like forcing water uphill. You dont want to get it. You're looking for cheap jokes, so please, make a few more. You'll simply underscore again and again why IMHO this community, such as it is anymore, just isnt worth it.

I am sorry you feel that way, at least for my part.  No, I don't think that anything you've said here today will influence the market in any way, the plain and simple truth is only money does that.  But I do see the point your attempting to make and I certainly do understand your feelings in this regard.

Quote - Yep. This is true. What isn't necessarily true is that the ONLY thing that sells is female human models. There are plenty of us who do other types of products.

Never wished to imply that only female models and there add ons had a market, merely pointing out that a lot of merchants apparently feel this way or they wouldn't keep creating this stuff. 

I've heard great things about room creator, btw - a couple of my fellow Poser fanatics keep telling me I really need to buy a copy for myself.  I'll have to see about doing that after I get a few other things taken care of :)

Quote-" I think you should really show us how it's done, and do it yourself - rather then just talking about it!"

I don't know about show you how it's done and all that, but I am a merchant. Just not on this site. Admittedly I only have one product and it doesn't sell very well. It's not posted on this site so I'm not going to promote it. I only posted a picture of it here a few times. Provide me a trusted site and terms right, I'll post it for one dollar. Good enough for you?

Hi Dogor

Don't let it upset you.  You have to understand that a third of the people in this community are still stuck in high school.  To them Renderosity,  CP,  and Daz forums are a big pep rally and they are the rah clique.

Cheers

Pat

OH DAMN IT ALL, and I thought I found the perfect get rich quick idea!!!!! You all mean to tell me I wont be rollin in dough in six months? Dammit I knew I shoulda sold drugs instead.:)

Thanks,
Patorak, I'm willing to participate. I'm going to be alright. Not all of us can say we are the hottest sellers around. I've seen people jerk their stuff because it didn't sell like hot cakes and felt as though they were wasting drive space. I'm not going to do that  yet  or just fade away. I don't think I'm going to get rich just yet. I wouldn't complain if I did though, but I'm not looking for that to happen tomorrow.

dogor,

dogor:  keep going I haven't even made a product yet but I'm tryin. There are alot of naysayers and people who continually say it will never work, well, perhaps they're right, but no one ever got anywhere without trying out their ideas. These top sellers started at the bottom too, and I doubt very much they would still be doing it if they were not being compensated for it. So I say all the it'll never work, and you can't do it, is just a bunch of rubbish.

"Quote - "Doesn't really work. They do have a group at Daz that tries this but as merchants will tell you, lots of gripping and talk but only a few, in these groups actually buy. So can you blame the mechants for pimping the female stuff?"

Don't blame the merchants for anything they do - it's there time, effort and energy they spend in developing, so if whatever they feel like creating is entirely up to them."

How did you get me blaming the merchants out of my quote? All my quote does is backup what the mechants do and points out that your suggestion on how to fix things does not work because, read my quote again.

*"Dunno, I create a lot of my own content so I have a pretty good idea just how much time it takes"

Yes it takes time, never said it didn't. I said it's not that hard to do. I model, rig and texture most of my own stuff, so yes, I do know what it takes. Lets not confuse Hard with Time. i don't think merchants get enough for thier products for the time involved. Poser users have been spoiled in that respect.

"But sadly I think again this really isn't going to be possible given the inherint limiations of the current software, and it doesn't realy look like SM is interested in addressing those limitaitons, rather it has chosen to try to integrate Poser with other, much more expensive 3d apps instead."

I don't think you can put all that blame on SM. eF are the ones that were promoting and developing all that and then sold to SM. SM are the ones that released the product. I know myself that I cant say what SM is going to do with Poser, they don't let me in on thier plans. I think I will wait and see what happens first. I don't have a good feeling about it all but that is just a feeling and not fact.

Quote - Hi Dogor

Don't let it upset you.  You have to understand that a third of the people in this community are still stuck in high school.  To them Renderosity,  CP,  and Daz forums are a big pep rally and they are the rah clique.

Cheers

Pat

Hey now, that is totally bogus man!  And you'd better take it back too, because my dad can beat up your dad!

rotfl - ok - sorry, just couldn't help myself :)

Quote - I don't think you can put all that blame on SM. eF are the ones that were promoting and developing all that and then sold to SM. SM are the ones that released the product. I know myself that I cant say what SM is going to do with Poser, they don't let me in on thier plans. I think I will wait and see what happens first. I don't have a good feeling about it all but that is just a feeling and not fact.

I don't but the blame entirely on SM, as I mentioned this has been an ongoing problem since long before they took up development, back since about version 5 in fact - but it isn't a question of "blame".  Poser is becoming less and less adequate for certain tasks every day.  Much of the code is aging, and it becomes more and more evident as other 3d packages continue to update and improve their basic functionality when in truth Posers basic functionality hasn't really been significantly improved since version 5.  Their have been some minor improvements in workflow here and there, and a bell or whistle added, but no real major functionality increase since that time.  The closest they've come is taking a 3rd party program called body studio and "incorporating" it into the new Pro version, but if reading the forums here is any indication it really doesn't work all that well since a ton of people seem to be having problems with it.

They had a lot of time to work on the code between aquiring it from Efrontier and the Poser Pro release, and all in all I'm not tremendously impressed with the direction they decided to take.  There are some real issues with Poser that haven't been addressed since version 5, and I guess I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are concerning future development considering what they've done so far.

Quote - How did you get me blaming the merchants out of my quote? All my quote does is backup what the mechants do and points out that your suggestion on how to fix things does not work because, read my quote again.

My point was I don't blame the merchants for anything they do, never meant to imply you blame them for anything.    In your original quote I think you said something to me about how I shouldn't  "blame the merchants" for something, I'd have to go back to get an exact quote as this thread has gotten rather lengthy.

Quote - Yes it takes time, never said it didn't. I said it's not that hard to do. I model, rig and texture most of my own stuff, so yes, I do know what it takes. Lets not confuse Hard with Time. i don't think merchants get enough for thier products for the time involved. Poser users have been spoiled in that respect.

Wow - you sure do go out of your way to pick a fight don't you?  I never said anything about you not understanding how much time it takes for this stuff to take place, again merely re-enforcing the point that I* have a great deal of respect for what merchants do, and I think it ought to be up to them what sort of content they wish to create since they are the ones taking that much time to create it.  So if yet another smutty outfit for V4 is what they want to spend there time on, who am I to complain?  It's not my time and effort going into it.

*please note that when I say I have such great respect for the various merchants in the Poserverse that in no way is meant to imply that you do not - sheesh

That was about the only point I was trying to make, not sure where you got all the rest of this stuff or why you chose to take any of it personally, but rest assured this post had almost nothing to do with you personally, other than the fact that I was replying to one of your previous posts. 

*They had a lot of time to work on the code between aquiring it from Efrontier and the Poser Pro release, and all in all I'm not tremendously impressed with the direction they decided to take.  There are some real issues with Poser that haven't been addressed since version 5, and I guess I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are concerning future development considering what they've done so far.

It's a shame the Poser dev team chose this direction.  Hell,  Poser Pro could've been an app like Messiah.

Quote - *They had a lot of time to work on the code between aquiring it from Efrontier and the Poser Pro release, and all in all I'm not tremendously impressed with the direction they decided to take.  There are some real issues with Poser that haven't been addressed since version 5, and I guess I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are concerning future development considering what they've done so far.

It's a shame the Poser dev team chose this direction.  Hell,  Poser Pro could've been an app like Messiah.

   

Actually though I'm rather glad things worked out the way they did, if I can get FAST up and running I can finally do what I've wanted to do for years, get rid of the windows installation on my hard drive compeletely and run Linux.  That has been the biggest holdup for me, there really aren't any good 3d rendering apps that run natively in Linux.

I was stuck with windows for two reasons and two reasons only, 3d rendering and the wife, who is not yet ready to make the Linux leap.  Well, I bought the wife a laptop and setup a wifi network, so she no longer uses my desktop and she's happy as a clam.  Which just leaves hurdle number two :)

Quote - Hi Dogor

Don't let it upset you.  You have to understand that a third of the people in this community are still stuck in high school.  To them Renderosity,  CP,  and Daz forums are a big pep rally and they are the rah clique.

Cheers

Pat

Some interpret any positive remarks or comments as falling under the file heading of "rah-rah".  I suppose that it's because they prefer to hear the negative -- and that only the negative has any validity for them.  Positive remarks are irritating distractions from the desired tone.

But of course: they never made it out of grammar school, so what do you expect? 

Quote - > Quote - And that's the point where I, too, disagree -- as Tashar does.  Half-a-dozen (or even fifty.....an unlikely number) people organizing a boycott does not a mass market movement make.  On the other hand -- it might make for some briefly entertaining forum reading.

Everyone has an ideolgically-driven idea about how to "save" the Poserverse from itself -- and it's a frequent topic of hand-wringing discussion in the various forums.  So far, the Poserverse has continued to grow & expand on its own regardless, and in spite of the dire predictions to be found in those myriad -- lost -- threads.  The Poserverse doesn't seem to need -- or want -- anyone to save it from itself.  It seems to be chugging along quite happily without the help.

I was merely pointing out that would be the only way to combat the "problem" as presented, but I don't for a moment  thing it would be effective either.  You'd never hold such a group together, for one thing, and you'd never be able to get enough people interested to make it work.

As to saving the Poser Universe, again something I have little to no interest in doing.  I just don't see Poser's development heading in what I consider ot be the right direction.  The areas I really want someone to be working on have more or less stagnated since Version 5, and the areas I have no interest in seem to be the only ones getting any attention in the development cycle.

So while I'll probably own and use a copy of Poser for quite some time to come, it's doubtful I'll be upgrading anytime soon, and in fact I've already started looking at coding an opensource replacement.  It will take some time, granted, but in the long run I think it will be well worth it.

shrug  We don't have any major points of disagreement here.  Perhaps in some of the minor details -- but not enough to be worth expending a lot of time & effort on.

I wish you every success with your open-source Poser replacement.  If it works out as you say, then I might be interested in taking a look myself -- at that future date.  I'm always open for new software & alternatives.  That's how Poser itself got its start, after all.

Quote - Seriously though,  do you all think there will be a Poser market when gas hits $5.00 a gal.

At $5 a gallon -- yes, there probably still will be.  It's when the market price hits $12 / gallon (in the US - which would likely mean ~$30 / gallon in Europe) that we might be wondering where our next meal is coming from.

I.....have a sneaking suspicion that the price will magically stabilize around $6 / gallon.  At least for awhile -- until there's a civil war in Nigeria, or Venezuela's dictator decides to implement a lock-down on his country's oil supply, or something happens in the Middle East.

Better start looking at Vespa's -- here's an interesting model from the parent company.  It looks like a reverse-tricycle:

Piaggio

Perhaps someone would care to create a 3D model & Poserize it for us.

*But of course: they never made it out of grammar school, so what do you expect? 

Ah grammar school.  Too bad the rah rahs never learned the Golden Rule in kindergarten.  Knowing it and living it really makes for good citizenship.

BTW The Golden Rule is do unto others as you would have others do unto you. 

Quote - > Quote - Hi Dogor

Don't let it upset you.  You have to understand that a third of the people in this community are still stuck in high school.  To them Renderosity,  CP,  and Daz forums are a big pep rally and they are the rah clique.

Cheers

Pat

Hey now, that is totally bogus man!  And you'd better take it back too, because my dad can beat up your dad!

rotfl - ok - sorry, just couldn't help myself :)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote - But of course: they never made it out of grammar school, so what do you expect? 
Ah grammar school.  Too bad the rah rahs never learned the Golden Rule in kindergarten.  Knowing it and living it really makes for good citizenship.

And it's too bad that the nay-sayers never learned it in Nursery School -- or in the maternity ward.

Quote - BTW The Golden Rule is do unto others as you would have others do unto you. 

That's true -- you tend to get what you give.  So if someone doesn't want negativity to be sent their way (C.O.D.), then they shouldn't be negative.

Being positive is a good thing, then.

Quote - Quote-" I think you should really show us how it's done, and do it yourself - rather then just talking about it!"

I don't know about show you how it's done and all that, but I am a merchant.

All I'm doing is disputing your statements that dollar items will sell in thousands of pieces. I see no evidence in various poser markets that supports that hypothesis. Look at DAZ's platinum club - which is a lot like your dollar items ideas. Those items are not selling in thousands of pieces either, at least last time I had any info about it, which was about 6 months ago.

Heck, even a lot of freebies, except for the hottest ones never reach thousands of downloads. The ones that do, are either nudie oriented, or take a lot more to make then what a person would recover by selling them for a dollar-a-piece.

I'm sorry if that upsets you, but it's a reality that you'll end up having to face once you do some market research of your own.

Quote - Heck, even a lot of freebies, except for the hottest ones never reach thousands of downloads. The ones that do, are either nudie oriented, or take a lot more to make then what a person would recover by selling them for a dollar-a-piece.

Umm... You've obviously not checked out the counts on ShareCG lately. I made more money as MatrixWorkz on Share CG giving away my freebies than I ever made when the same items were in a store. They were downloaded by the hundreds and thousands when they were made free. Of course, that was when ShareCG was actually paying their content providers. Now? Meh! I'm not doing much of any content creation.