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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 18 7:39 am)
Subject: I think maybe it's time I left the party
Quote - :: sigh::
No, Xeno, hate to disappoint you, ol' chum, but this has zero, zip, nada to do with what you think of as "political correctness". The issues are slightly more involved than that -- and were you to actually read the posts, you might figure that out.
Oh, I'm able to figure quite a few things out. 
And political correctness is one of those things. As for the "issues" being "slightly more involved" -- I prefer to cut directly to the chase: and to set aside the cover.
BTW - my own artistic creativity -- such as it is -- is in no way limited by whatever others might choose to do with their own time, money, or purchasing habits.
Sorry to disappoint you -- but there's no disappointment here. :biggrin:
Quote - Well, my contribtion to the "let's warp a standard character!" game (one I do so love, BTW -- he says with an evil grin). I dont leave any of them alone once I get ahold of them, and some of my favourite work, as was shown a couple of pages back, is in Ichiro -- I prefer version 1 over version 2, but that's just me. This one is from my "Gilgamesh" series: the Death and Burial of Enkidu. Between using Wardrobe Wizard to give Gilgamesh his outfit and the fact that almost no part of the Ichiro meshes used here have been left to manufacturer's original specifications for scaling, morphing and even some mesh-mangling in Hexagon, I think it sorta kinda shows what you can do with these characters if you're willing to spend a little time re-working them. It's nothing wildly extravagant from a re-creation point of view, but still...
Next project BTW is probably "Gulliver's Travels", which will involve some pretty serious prop building for the re-take
All well and good -- have fun (no sarcasm intended).
>> As for the "issues" being "slightly more involved" -- I prefer to cut directly to the chase: and to set aside the cover.
You may be cutting to the chase, but you've clearly cut somewhere around the ankle and not near any meaningful organs.
Tell me: how does the community's obsession with one character mesh fall into the realm of "political correctness"? Frankly, I would have the same issue were the mesh in question Michael, in case you hadnt figured that one out, or the Freak, or even the Toon Dragon, for that matter. It's the simple fact that we have reduced this program to one that, in the main, serves the needs of one company (That would be DAZ, incidently) which has (yes, with the users' compliance) decided the standard for eight years now and, in the process, replaced imagination with a whopping amount of tedium and repetitiveness, the "sameness" aluded to by another poster above. Just for grins, so look at the product line for V2 and compare it to the current product line for V4. Not a lot of difference, when you "cut to the chase and set aside the cover". Sure, there's the occasional blip on the radar, but even today, when I looked at the front page for the Maketplace here, it simply underscored what I found the last time I looked: more cookie-cutter products, nothing that really yelled out much uniqueness. We are literally drowning in our own compliance.
So how is this, by any stretch of your imagination, "political correctness"? Truly, that's some reach.
And all the links of images of pretty girls at CGTalk isnt going to help you, by the way. This isnt about Maya or 3DStudio. It's about Poser and what's happened to it since 1998. Stay on topic, if you would.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
The thing that sets the CGSociety images and the Poser images apart isn't just the professionalism. I've seen some pretty damn professional looking Poser stuff.
The thing that sets it apart is the fact that none of those images sport the same outfit / texture in a variety of poses, from different people.
And God help you when you happen to say "Guy stuff". You practically get rocks thrown at you by a lot of people.
Reminds me of this:
Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! 
Do you understand?! Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
THUNK.
Alas... That M4 thread over yonder kinda... died. Instead we're "teased" with V4.2 Elite.
Silke
Quote - You may be cutting to the chase, but you've clearly cut somewhere around the ankle and not near any meaningful organs.
Uh......I won't go near that one. Other than to say that the vulnerability in Achilles' heel was the critical weakness that brought down everything else.
Quote - Tell me: how does the community's obsession with one character mesh fall into the realm of "political correctness"?
It has nothing to do with it -- but here we are talking about two different topics. So, I'll deal with the following topic:
Quote - Frankly, I would have the same issue were the mesh in question Michael, in case you hadnt figured that one out, or the Freak, or even the Toon Dragon, for that matter. It's the simple fact that we have reduced this program to one that, in the main, serves the needs of one company (That would be DAZ, incidently) which has (yes, with the users' compliance) decided the standard for eight years now and, in the process, replaced imagination with a whopping amount of tedium and repetitiveness, the "sameness" aluded to by another poster above. Just for grins, so look at the product line for V2 and compare it to the current product line for V4. Not a lot of difference, when you "cut to the chase and set aside the cover". Sure, there's the occasional blip on the radar, but even today, when I looked at the front page for the Maketplace here, it simply underscored what I found the last time I looked: more cookie-cutter products, nothing that really yelled out much uniqueness. We are literally drowning in our own compliance.
I'd suggest producing & offering up for sale your own products: and to create those products in such a way as to fit into the 'proper' ideological / philosophical / artistic / marketing-sales underpinning in whatever way you choose to define it -- by your own lights. And then see if it sells.
You certainly aren't going to stop anyone else from doing whatever they wish to do, purchasing-wise -- even if you disapprove of their choices. For whatever reasons.
Quote - So how is this, by any stretch of your imagination, "political correctness"? Truly, that's some reach.
Complaints about a dominant figure don't fall under the rubric of "political correctness" -- when the dominant figure is being discussed in terms of its technical existence as a "mesh". But -- when the primary (and opening) complaint revolves around the dominant mesh being female -- then it's a different story.
Not much of a reach. In fact: I barely had to move my arm.
Quote - And all the links of images of pretty girls at CGTalk isnt going to help you, by the way. This isnt about Maya or 3DStudio. It's about Poser and what's happened to it since 1998. Stay on topic, if you would.
Oh, those links made their point quite nicely -- in response to claims that the "pros" only do "non-sexualized" work -- in contrast to the silly amateurs around here. The links were quite topical to the mark of their address.
Nevertheless -- "topical" is defined by the speaker, and not by any would-be directors.
>> It has nothing to do with it
Well, bingo has been called. No point in reading any further.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Quote - Well, bingo has been called. No point in reading any further.
:lol:
Declaring victory is always a great device for winning a debate. And so in that spirit........I hereby declare VICTORY! No need to read any further.
:biggrin:
This same topic has come up before -- many, many times. And the complaints have historically tended to center around the prevalence of "female items" in the stores. This thread is merely an extension of that same old complaint.......with a slightly different take on it in the margins.
Quote - CG Society- Artists pushing boundaries.
Poserverse-People reliving their glory days of high school. Cliques, hero worship, etc.
CG Society -- Students looking for a job. Usually for low pay.
Poserverse -- People with the leisure & the money to burn on a sideline hobby.
......or at least that's the cynic's view. I'm not a cynic.
Quote - ahahahahaha...snort...AHAHAHAHAHA! Stop it! you're killing me! Waitress another round for my friends!
Pat -- maybe you'd better give me your car keys............. :biggrin:
Hey XENO
Check this out! This has got me pissed it's another example of government interference in the market that stiffles competition. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1245660.ece
>> Declaring victory is always a great device for winning a debate.
And pretending that something is (even when it isnt) is delusional.
You believe this is all so because we're talking about a female character mesh? That that is the sole issue at disucssion here?
And you wonder why, when I ask you what that has to do with PCism and you reply, "Nothing at all", that I stop reading, even as you continue to rant about how it's all about hatred toward women and how we shouldnt hate women and its PCism to (apparently) hate women.
The only person I see hating women around here right now, this moment, is you, bubba. The rest of us are looking at far more comprehensive issues that all the links to CGTalk wont come close to addressing and all your posts about how "See?? Sean hates WOMEN!" wont come close to addressing.
But please, continue to play. It's fascinating seeing this... whatever it is... in action.
Look, hate to shatter that bubble you live in, but it's a little larger than your sexist fantasies. It's about de-evolving a program down to the lowest common denominator and stagnating it in the process. In case you missed the memo, I said -- quite clearly -- that I would have the same issue were it Michael or the Freak or the ToonDragon or even BotBoy.
But all you can focus on is, "Oh well, he's complaining about a woman. How PC of him!!!"
Get a grip, Xeno. And go find another string for that harp of yours. That one's wearing perilously thin and about to break.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Owwwwww!!!!! My eye! Now I'll have to go the hassle of filing a workman's comp claim..........and I hate dealing with government bureaucrats!
BTW - what was that creature that flashed by (real fast) on my screen? Whatever it was, I imagine that it'll have back trouble on down the road.
Quote - Hey XENO
Check this out! This has got me pissed it's another example of government interference in the market that stiffles competition. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1245660.ece
OMG -- that's hysterical!
Sad. And pathetic. But still, hysterical.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Like this? (it's hard to see the brass in this render, but they're definitely on the texture)
Jeff
Renderosity Senior Moderator
Hablo español
Ich spreche Deutsch
Je parle français
Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?
Quote - >> Declaring victory is always a great device for winning a debate.
And pretending that something is (even when it isnt) is delusional.
You believe this is all so because we're talking about a female character mesh? That that is the sole issue at disucssion here?
And you wonder why, when I ask you what that has to do with PCism and you reply, "Nothing at all", that I stop reading, even as you continue to rant about how it's all about hatred toward women and how we shouldnt hate women and its PCism to (apparently) hate women.
The only person I see hating women around here right now, this moment, is you, bubba. The rest of us are looking at far more comprehensive issues that all the links to CGTalk wont come close to addressing and all your posts about how "See?? Sean hates WOMEN!" wont come close to addressing.
But please, continue to play. It's fascinating seeing this... whatever it is... in action.
Look, hate to shatter that bubble you live in, but it's a little larger than your sexist fantasies. It's about de-evolving a program down to the lowest common denominator and stagnating it in the process. In case you missed the memo, I said -- quite clearly -- that I would have the same issue were it Michael or the Freak or the ToonDragon or even BotBoy.
But all you can focus on is, "Oh well, he's complaining about a woman. How PC of him!!!"
Get a grip, Xeno. And go find another string for that harp of yours. That one's wearing perilously thin and about to break.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
OK -- let me be sure that I've gotten this right:
I hate women, I live in a bubble, and my harp string is wearing thin and is about to break.
I have to scratch my head over the "hating women" aspect of things -- I don't seem to recall saying anything about that........or accusing anyone of it. shrug Oh, well.........
Very good, then -- straighten 'em out in the Poserverse. 3rd-party meshes aren't just simply technical meshes -- they are an ideological statement. A break from stifling conformist sameness -- and a step into..........liberty, I suppose. Liberty as predefined for us by someone else.
Please excuse me if I don't go along for the ride -- I have an annoying tendency to define liberty in my own way.
Speaking of breaks -- it's time for me to take one for a few hours. So, I'll leave these burning issues up to y'all to solve for the time being. I know that it's all in very good hands.
In the meantime, I think that I'll go buy another V4 character............because sometimes these actions aren't just mere commercial transactions: sometimes it's ART. And an ideological statement, to boot. :thumbupboth:
Sean: I get what you're saying. I go through the markets and find it awfully booring too, so I don't buy much. Then again the people who are buying get exactly what they want (apparently) So, whats to say? And I don't understand where the idea this thread was about complaints about women came from. I thought it was about stagnation, the same old same-o. I think there are likely lots of people out there making different things if for no other reason than they're boored with what there is to buy, like me, it's just their stuff does not see too many peoples runtimes. That's a matter for the people who own those runtimes though, if they want Dolly Parten Vickies then that's what they're going to buy. I think that's probably not going to change anytime soon, regretable from my point of veiw but, I can't change it.
If you dig enough you might find something else besides Vicky but not much. I did like the new orch model by pjz99 and his partner. Bagash, was a pretty cool and different character, I purchased V4.2 just for that orch character. (in fact it's the only thing I own for V4.2) So, there's one character that's different.
Well campers, since were all interested in cutting to the chase here, lets do that.
Merchants create stuff they think will sell. There not going to do otherwise, regardless of what opinions might be expressed or any underlying motivations or agenda's behind those opinions. If you have this many merchants making so many items that are the same, that should be a clear indicator that those items are selling well enough to keep the merchants in question creating those items.
Now, if you wish to "fix" this, there is one way and one way only. As they old expression goes, money talks, bs walks. So, put together an organization or group or whatever and get as many other disgruntled we hate sexy vicky outfit people as you can, and everytime you see an item that isn't in this category each and every one of you rush out and buy it.
Bolster the sales for the items you find "worthy", and boycott the rest. If you do this, the merchants will respond and start creating more items like those. Until then all of this is just shouting to the wind, because merchants are not going to spend a lot of man hours producing products that are "worthy" if they don't sell.
If you want meshes other than Vicky or Mike, do the same. And when a new figure does come out, get a group of people together and start cranking out as much free or low cost add on stuff as you can as quickly as you can and get it out there post haste.
If you do that a new figure has a chance of taking hold in the market place. If you don't it won't, it's simply a matter of inertia as I said before. People don't want to invest money in a figure that won't get much support, and merchants don't want to support a new figure until they are reasonably sure that people will buy products for it.
So when it's all said and done it's not about morality, artistic freedom or expression, pro vrs amatuer, or anything of the sort. It all comes down to the almighty dollar. That's the only "opinion" that the merchants will truly care about in the end, because all the critical acclaim in the world doesn't put food on your table.
And that is the only "chase" to cut to in this whole argument :)
-Never fear, RenderDog is near! Oh wait, is that a chew toy? Yup. ok, nevermind.. go back to fearing...
Alot of effort is poured into the female figure market which is why often the figures are introduced for free with content creator packages. Other types of Poser content doesn't create the same market opportunities. It's not like they edged the other markets out. They were free at first at times, had potential and they were popular already. Plus some very talented artists build some neat stuff for her too that somebody else can make a texture for and make money off of that also. Nobody takes a car and does that or a boat or a building. That I know of. You buy a car there ain't no add ons for it. Buildings either or boats and you don't see them for free as a promotional deal to get it off the ground either. Just not as versatile and less apt to make the buyers any money either. It's about money.
dogor,
*quote: '... Until then all of this is just shouting to the wind, because merchants are not going to spend a lot of man hours producing products that are "worthy" if they don't sell...'
Yup ... what he said :)
Someone (a top merchant) once mentioned to me that he never paid any mind to what was said in the forums because no matter how many people were complaining about something - they didn't represent even 1% of the Poser userbase. The vast majority of Poserites happily make their purchases without concerning themselves much with the criticisms being made in threads like these. That's a sad fact of life because if it's true then the only way you can influence what is being made and marketed is by casting your dollar votes for what you believe in.
So it looks like Renderdog has it in a nutshell :)
- Rick
Quote -
So when it's all said and done it's not about morality, artistic freedom or expression, pro vrs amatuer, or anything of the sort. It all comes down to the almighty dollar. That's the only "opinion" that the merchants will truly care about in the end, because all the critical acclaim in the world doesn't put food on your table.
And that is the only "chase" to cut to in this whole argument :)
I agree, the reason the market place is full of what it is, is because thats what sells. It works like any other business or store, you fill it with what sells. But then again this market is really only a small part of the overall 3D comunity, there is more out there.
*Someone (a top merchant) once mentioned to me that he never paid any mind to what was said in the forums because no matter how many people were complaining about something - they didn't represent even 1% of the Poser userbase. The vast majority of Poserites happily make their purchases without concerning themselves much with the criticisms being made in threads like these. That's a sad fact of life because if it's true then the only way you can influence what is being made and marketed is by casting your dollar votes for what you believe in.
A top merchant ( I think he's part of the Poser 12 ) told me there's not much of a Poser market left.
Hay averyone has an opinion and each opinion has there vadid points so dont atack the poor guy. i understand what he is saying becuse i remember the days when we had to make all our own props and textures simply becuse none existed and the market was young. It did cause a diferant kind of creativaty to explode. I am a tinkerer my self and have made thousands of props and even modfied props i have bought. The one thing i have to say is that i am noticing alot of the same textures and clothing styles in renders so the comments are valid in that respect.
Good luck and hope you still continue to do your own art work.
-Gabe-
Quote - Hay averyone has an opinion and each opinion has there vadid points so dont atack the poor guy. i understand what he is saying becuse i remember the days when we had to make all our own props and textures simply becuse none existed and the market was young. It did cause a diferant kind of creativaty to explode. I am a tinkerer my self and have made thousands of props and even modfied props i have bought. The one thing i have to say is that i am noticing alot of the same textures and clothing styles in renders so the comments are valid in that respect.
Good luck and hope you still continue to do your own art work.
-Gabe-
Not attacking anyone here, just telling it like it is I'm afraid. There's a reason why "Baywatch" continued to stay on all those years even though all the critics out there (rightfully) panned the show. The acting was terrible, the scripts were worse, but one attractive female running down the beach in a skimpy bathing suit was all that show needed to stay alive year after year.
Merchants create what sells, because that's how they make money and thats all there is too it. All the blame throwing in the world won't change it, and no matter how many people come or go on Renderosity or Daz or any other website that simple fact will not change.
The only way to influence the market is with dollars, not words. Me I never complain about what's available in the market because I honestly have no right to do so, I rarely if ever purchase add on products, most of what I have is stuff I made myself.
But if others are interested in seeing a market change, $ is the only way to do it. Doesn't matter what market your talking about, what 3d program, etc. Cash is the only language that matters in this situation, and if your not saying it with cash your voice will not be heard. It really is that simple.
-Never fear, RenderDog is near! Oh wait, is that a chew toy? Yup. ok, nevermind.. go back to fearing...
*I will say i do miss though some of the old days. =)
Me too. I think I miss the respectability Poser 3 had in the CG world the most. http://www.3dartist.com/3dartist.htm
I'm not attacking either, I agree with Sean the market is booring and full of the same old stuff, but I agree with renderdog too, it's full of the same old stuff because that's what people buy.
Doesn't sixxus make alot of different stuff? Seems to me I have some of their creatures.
I do wish Sean would stay though, I come by to read his posts even when I was not posting myself anymore.
patorak: that's an idea, lots and lots of freebies, including full figures ect. I don't know if that would change anything though.
Personally I am going to go another way and open a site just for fun. Hopefully if all goes right I'll have all kinds of unusual stuff. I wanted to have a smokers fight forum too with weekly prises for the winner of the best forum brawl the readers get to pick the winner. Who knows just might be fun.
Quote - Well campers, since were all interested in cutting to the chase here, lets do that.
Merchants create stuff they think will sell. There not going to do otherwise, regardless of what opinions might be expressed or any underlying motivations or agenda's behind those opinions. If you have this many merchants making so many items that are the same, that should be a clear indicator that those items are selling well enough to keep the merchants in question creating those items.
Now, if you wish to "fix" this, there is one way and one way only. As they old expression goes, money talks, bs walks. So, put together an organization or group or whatever and get as many other disgruntled we hate sexy vicky outfit people as you can, and everytime you see an item that isn't in this category each and every one of you rush out and buy it.
Bolster the sales for the items you find "worthy", and boycott the rest. If you do this, the merchants will respond and start creating more items like those. Until then all of this is just shouting to the wind, because merchants are not going to spend a lot of man hours producing products that are "worthy" if they don't sell.
If you want meshes other than Vicky or Mike, do the same. And when a new figure does come out, get a group of people together and start cranking out as much free or low cost add on stuff as you can as quickly as you can and get it out there post haste.
If you do that a new figure has a chance of taking hold in the market place. If you don't it won't, it's simply a matter of inertia as I said before. People don't want to invest money in a figure that won't get much support, and merchants don't want to support a new figure until they are reasonably sure that people will buy products for it.
So when it's all said and done it's not about morality, artistic freedom or expression, pro vrs amatuer, or anything of the sort. It all comes down to the almighty dollar. That's the only "opinion" that the merchants will truly care about in the end, because all the critical acclaim in the world doesn't put food on your table.
And that is the only "chase" to cut to in this whole argument :)
shrug I'm not going to argue with you -- because I agree with most of what you've so reasonably said. So there's nothing much to chase.
*"Now, if you wish to "fix" this, there is one way and one way only. As they old expression goes, money talks, bs walks. So, put together an organization or group or whatever and get as many other disgruntled we hate sexy vicky outfit people as you can, and everytime you see an item that isn't in this category each and every one of you rush out and buy it."
Doesn't really work. They do have a group at Daz that tries this but as merchants will tell you, lots of gripping and talk but only a few, in these groups actually buy. So can you blame the mechants for pimping the female stuff?
It is true that you see 50 of the same thing with very little difference. I swear that many of the clothes are done with the same mesh with a slight different cut. Maybe it's all these quick clothing apps that there are like Fashion Shop or whatever it's called, PhilC's clothing creation software, all the merchant resource products. Maybe the market is so saturated that everything is just one big blur now.
Seems everyone wants to be a merchant, except me, with thoughts of riches and fame. Could be why some tell the newbies it is so hard to do in hopes of less competition but as I said in an earlier post, it discourages some fresh young blood, which is something this community needs. It is getting stale.
Quote - Not attacking anyone here, just telling it like it is I'm afraid. There's a reason why "Baywatch" continued to stay on all those years even though all the critics out there (rightfully) panned the show. The acting was terrible, the scripts were worse, but one attractive female running down the beach in a skimpy bathing suit was all that show needed to stay alive year after year.
Merchants create what sells, because that's how they make money and thats all there is too it. All the blame throwing in the world won't change it, and no matter how many people come or go on Renderosity or Daz or any other website that simple fact will not change.
The only way to influence the market is with dollars, not words. Me I never complain about what's available in the market because I honestly have no right to do so, I rarely if ever purchase add on products, most of what I have is stuff I made myself.
But if others are interested in seeing a market change, $ is the only way to do it. Doesn't matter what market your talking about, what 3d program, etc. Cash is the only language that matters in this situation, and if your not saying it with cash your voice will not be heard. It really is that simple.
Yep. Again. 
Quote - *"Now, if you wish to "fix" this, there is one way and one way only. As they old expression goes, money talks, bs walks. So, put together an organization or group or whatever and get as many other disgruntled we hate sexy vicky outfit people as you can, and everytime you see an item that isn't in this category each and every one of you rush out and buy it."
Doesn't really work. They do have a group at Daz that tries this but as merchants will tell you, lots of gripping and talk but only a few, in these groups actually buy. So can you blame the mechants for pimping the female stuff?
And that's the point where I, too, disagree -- as Tashar does. Half-a-dozen (or even fifty.....an unlikely number) people organizing a boycott does not a mass market movement make. On the other hand -- it might make for some briefly entertaining forum reading.
Everyone has an ideolgically-driven idea about how to "save" the Poserverse from itself -- and it's a frequent topic of hand-wringing discussion in the various forums. So far, the Poserverse has continued to grow & expand on its own regardless, and in spite of the dire predictions to be found in those myriad -- lost -- threads. The Poserverse doesn't seem to need -- or want -- anyone to save it from itself. It seems to be chugging along quite happily without the help.
Well there must be a way to work in something new...........All this sortof reminds me of the realms of law and chaos. Total chaos and you have an uninteligible mess, total law and you have a stagnant nervana. There are of course new things being developed all the time. The old gets left behind and the new takes its place. The same with merchants, and the same with the people doing the purchasing, tastes and fashion change.
>> I have an annoying tendency to define liberty in my own way.
You also have an annoying tendency of wearing very convenient blinders and singing LA LA LA LA VERY LOUDLY when you dont want to see the point being made.
I have said, several times over in this thread, that I have no issue with the people who want to do nothing but the pretty girl renders. I have no issue with the merchants who continually supply them the means to do it.
My issue is what it's done to this program and the user base in the long run.
Your oh so clever observations about sexism and the effects of gravity on water are about as relevant to that as the latest exploits of Paris Hilton are to the political situation in Rwanda. My point, in case you've missed it in the last five pages, is that the program has stagnated, nearly to the point of anthropy. It has hit a serious plateau in development. It's gotten boring. And if you cant understand why that's happened, then there's no point in telling you. You'll simply sit there and sing LALALALA even more loudly.
So go buy another V4 character. Do it with my blessing. It only continues the stagnation, which, I gather, you like because, for you, that's all this program is about: making pictures of pretty girls. And hurrah for you if thats the case. But some of us would like to see this program doing more. Some of us would like to see the community as fertile with ideas as it was five years ago. Some of us would like to see Poser become innovative again, not merely decorative as it is now.
Of course, saying this to you is indeed like forcing water uphill. You dont want to get it. You're looking for cheap jokes, so please, make a few more. You'll simply underscore again and again why IMHO this community, such as it is anymore, just isnt worth it.
And funny how everyone else in this thread gets it, while you seem stuck in your strange little thesis on "political correctness" -- but I suppose that shouldnt be all that surprising either...
Enough. I'm turning off the bots. It's been fun, folks.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
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*>> Political Correctness attacking near-universal cultural sexual obsession is basically an example of one wrong-headed idea attacking another wrong-headed idea -- and for the wrong reasons.*:: sigh::
No, Xeno, hate to disappoint you, ol' chum, but this has zero, zip, nada to do with what you think of as "political correctness". The issues are slightly more involved than that -- and were you to actually read the posts, you might figure that out.
Well, my contribtion to the "let's warp a standard character!" game (one I do so love, BTW -- he says with an evil grin). I dont leave any of them alone once I get ahold of them, and some of my favourite work, as was shown a couple of pages back, is in Ichiro -- I prefer version 1 over version 2, but that's just me. This one is from my "Gilgamesh" series: the Death and Burial of Enkidu. Between using Wardrobe Wizard to give Gilgamesh his outfit and the fact that almost no part of the Ichiro meshes used here have been left to manufacturer's original specifications for scaling, morphing and even some mesh-mangling in Hexagon, I think it sorta kinda shows what you can do with these characters if you're willing to spend a little time re-working them. It's nothing wildly extravagant from a re-creation point of view, but still...
Next project BTW is probably "Gulliver's Travels", which will involve some pretty serious prop building for the re-take I'm putting on it. If you're interested, bookmark my website (www.joey-aristophanes.com) and follow along there. Should start posting preliminary images sometime in July.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider