Ok, I've been trying to use stock photos to create some textures for characters and I keep running into the same issues over and over. The face always turns out great, no issues there but when it comes to the neck and rest of the body, it seems even I get frustrated and use the same skin from the face to create the rest of the body, it always comes out different shades when I put it on the character. I understand there are different shades of skin on different parts of the body and that is fine but what can I do differently? I hope people understand what I am trying to ask, even though it was not said very clearly. It's REALLY annoying.... Oh and I have so much trouble with the hands and feet part.. anyone have any tips/????

The problem with using photos is that the lighting is already affecting the skin in the photo, and then again on the model. So it's tricky. You need to get very high quality and well lit images for it to work well.

A good approach to start with would be to find a good merchant resource and use that as your base. Then blend in details from your photos.

Ok so use the photos as a blend. Hmm ok I will try that instead - kinda feels like cheating though if you know what I mean but yeah I think if that solves the issue then I can handle cheating a little ;) 

It's a good start. As you master that, then you can move to the next step.

With a texture I created, I worked from an underlying merchant resource to eliminate seams. Then I basically covered everything with photo pastes, but the effect was subtle because I used the eraser (partially transparent) a lot.

Technically, the very best textures are not created from photos (unless they are high-priced body scans where light glares and shadows are virtually eliminated, but those are hard to come by). The most real CG images you'll see were hand-painted, believe it or not. But not very many people in the world of Poser have that kind of skill, I don't think.

Quote -
With a texture I created, I worked from an underlying merchant resource to eliminate seams. Then I basically covered everything with photo pastes, but the effect was subtle because I used the eraser (partially transparent) a lot.

Oh, and tools like dodge and burn, as well. A bit of a kludge and you do lose some detail, but at least you can overcome part of the light and shadow issues inherent in using photos.

Another reason the skin comes out different on the face than on the body is the way the mapping is done. If you notice on the templates for V4 it tells you the face is 3.27:1 ratio where the torso is 1:1. so you need to scale your photos to match this. otherwise there will be a difference in the resolution. some figures are even more off than that.

What software are you using to do this? Photoshop from CS one (I think) has a color matching feature in it. You might try that. It not only matches color IIRC, but it matches luminance as well.

Laurie

I wonder if that color match is in the later versions of PS? I don't have CS 1 but have all the later ones.

It was called "Match Color" or something similar. It's been a long time since I used CS1 at my last job ;o). I still use Photoshop 7 (I'm poor...lol).

Laurie

I try to upgrade most things as they come available. Not my C4D though, I'll wait till 12 comes out to upgrade that. LOL

Photoshop CS3 and CS4 have the color matching option also.

cool, had a truck load of horse manure to unload so didn't really have the time to look myself. LOL would have hated to put that chore off. LOL

 Yeah I have tried the color and to tell you the truth it matches perfectly until I put it on the character. What does it mean by  "If you notice on the templates for V4 it tells you the face is 3.27:1 ratio where the torso is 1:1. so you need to scale your photos to match this. otherwise there will be a difference in the resolution. some figures are even more off than that."  How do you do that??? What size is that in terms of like 100x100 or whatever?? Sorry if thats a dumb question but I dont get ratios. I understand that a lot of them are painted, is there a tutorial somewhere that can teach that? If not someone should write one LOL Hint hint hint ..... ;) 

 Also just OTT for a second sort of, there is something that I also wanted to know how it is achieved, and it is to do with texturing, probably beyond my skill again but i am so eager to learn. There is a way to make characters eyes and  lips look really awesome imho, like this character i saw Im not sure if I can link to it or not but its on here its called Tess by Phoenix - thats the one with gorgeous eyes, and Kymber by Countess or Daz Countess I think, not the example I was looking for but similar concept in that the lips have this subtle gloss to them. I can get a glossy look but its always too high, is is just a matter of messing with the dials and lowering the glow so to speak or am I missing something?? - the look I am thinking of is on a character called Vanessa for V4  its over at Daz its by maelwenn. How on earth do you get that gorgeous subtle shine? 

Quote - It was called "Match Color" or something similar. It's been a long time since I used CS1 at my last job ;o). I still use Photoshop 7 (I'm poor...lol).

Laurie

Wow that is a cool feature, I really need to learn more about PS - I found this basic tutorial HERE on using Match Colour, thanks for the tip.

Ok on the template the face is 3.27 times larger than the body. So if you leave your photos the same size your body will look to be much lower res than your face. This will cause color difference when it gets mapped to the figure. It will also cause a seam even if the color matches. IMHO that this was done for the sole purpose of keeping just anyone from being able to texture, LOL, keeping compitition down. As to how to get around it you would just have to scale your photos for the head and face according to the ratio for a better resolution match.

I may be wrong and someone will tell me if I am, but I believe this is what causes the color difference.

The main reason I rarely fool with skin textures...lol.

You can use this as an example: I model a dress with a belt. I make 2 texture maps for the dress, both 2048 pixels square. One map has just the buckle on it, filling the entire template. The rest of the dress is on the other template. What you'll have in the end is a really detailed buckle and the rest of the dress?....well, not so much...lol. It's the same size, but you have to smoosh all that information in that same size area. If your photos aren't scaled properly, your only alternative is to make the body texture larger to begin with or the face map smaller. That's why most maps have very detailed heads and less detailed bodies. It's why I never liked the current way Daz does their mapping. It's true that one has less seams to match, but in the end you run into the problem you are having. I'd rather have the maps cut up so that they are the same size ratio, even if I had to match more seams or the head on the same map, attached to the body ;o). At the 3.27 to one ratio, your body map would have to be over 6000 pixels square (if your face map were 2048).

Laurie

I thought that V1 was mapped the best fewer seams on her than on the current V. Almost no way to rid yourself of the seams in the shoulder or neck area now. I actually have a way, but yet untested. LOL

 ok so what I should do is make the stock photo the same size as the face? Is it that simple or am I missing something LOL 

 wha!!!!!??? 6000.... hmmm maybe I should rethink this LMAO

Alter the photo sizes according to the ratios on the templates.

 ahh ok so do they both have to be the same size as the face or just go by the size of each of them - if that makes sense

I'd say you would have to reduce the scale of your face photos or increase the scale of your body photos.

looks pretty good but the  res on it says 396x 396. LOL rosity scaled it down.

Are you using BodyPaint3D or just Photoshop?

Where did you find your skin brushes? They look really good.

Thank you :)  Just using Photoshop. Dont know what BodyPaint3d is to be honest :) I just did searches in google for photoshop skin brushes cant remember the exact name of the one I used, It was mostly for texture so to speak 

One of David Nagel's brushes perhaps? I know he made some skin brushes, if you can find them :o).

Laurie

 could well be - they are just brushes in my photoshop to me LOL I should pay attention to the names but I dont :huh: 

Quote - looks pretty good but the  res on it says 396x 396. LOL rosity scaled it down.

That's the size of the forum compressed pic. Click the pic to open it in a new window, it will then be full size, which is 2048x2048.

I actually had to save target to disk in order to get the full size. Looks very good.

 Thank you, but the only problem is that there is a black line down the middle of the head. Gotta work on the seams 

Hope you don't mind some tips.

Please click my render to see it full size and observe the things I'm talking about.

I intentially lit the figure from the side here to make the problems worse.

• Don't draw nostril shadows. First of all, yours don't line up with the nostrils. Second, observe that with proper lighting, they are naturally dark in the right place, despite the fact that your texture is actually normal skin in the nostrils. Nostril shadowing is a lighting phenomenon. It is not a change in the skin color. Your texture should represent the color of the surface assuming everything is evenly lit. Let the renderer supply the lighting and shadowing.
• Your eyelid edges don't line up with the figure. As a result, the texture eyelid edges are showing up on  the upper eyelid, and the makeup is out of line. Always test render with the eyes closed.
• Get rid of the highlights from the lips. You've copied the lips in such a way that they exhibit what is called "burned in specular". You've captured the highlights from your photo source as if there are actual white spots on the lips. Paradoxically, this makes the lips look dry and flaky, instead of wet and shiny. Let the renderer/shader produce the specular highlights based on the lighting.
• Make a bump map to go with the color map, but do NOT make it from the color map. If you do that, you're going to create bumps in spots where the skin happened to have color variations or even burned in highlights that won't match when the light is moved to the side. If you can't produce a good bump map, then don't. I used a Turbulence node for bump here. A hand-made bump map is better than a turbulence node. A bump map made from the color map is worse than useless. It will detract from the realism.

BB

Since this subject came up, what is the best way to reduce or eliminate the highlights from a photo? Without loosing contrast if possible. I always end up flat when I try this.

Eye highlights drive me crazy when I attempt to do eyes as well.

Well there was this technique I posted a long time ago, when we were discussing a free face texture posted by FS.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3078425&ebot_calc_page#message_3078425

Here's the result. Notice how different the lips look.

Note: I think the lips are out of line a bit, too.

Yep, now that you posted those images, looks like the whole face is shifted a little to one side.

Laurie

Since the map is 2048 pixels, that is a shift of 20 pixels to the left and 8 pixels up.

The features are mostly lined up right then, but the edge near the ear brings in some black. Shifting the whole map doesn't work because of that, but the info should help in moving the features to the right place.

I like this texture a lot, now that I've lined it up and removed the burned-in specular.

Quote - BB

Since this subject came up, what is the best way to reduce or eliminate the highlights from a photo? Without loosing contrast if possible. I always end up flat when I try this.

Eye highlights drive me crazy when I attempt to do eyes as well.

If you wanted to do it in photshop, there is also a filter called "Shine Off", I haven't used it, but it was suggested in another forum, & I have it bookmarked. It has one draw back apparently in that it cannot handle images over 2000x2000 well, so you would have to do large images in sections.

I have no idea what any of that means to be honest.... I have removed the black now but I will work on the face part. If its not lined up then I can fix that on the texture itself. 

Quote - I used the image map offsets to shift the features, U_Offset = -.01 and V_Offset = .004.

Since the map is 2048 pixels, that is a shift of 20 pixels to the left and 8 pixels up.

The features are mostly lined up right then, but the edge near the ear brings in some black. Shifting the whole map doesn't work because of that, but the info should help in moving the features to the right place.

I like this texture a lot, now that I've lined it up and removed the burned-in specular.

Quote - Nice start, but the black line is not the only problem.

Hope you don't mind some tips.

Please click my render to see it full size and observe the things I'm talking about.

I intentially lit the figure from the side here to make the problems worse.

• Don't draw nostril shadows. First of all, yours don't line up with the nostrils. Second, observe that with proper lighting, they are naturally dark in the right place, despite the fact that your texture is actually normal skin in the nostrils. Nostril shadowing is a lighting phenomenon. It is not a change in the skin color. Your texture should represent the color of the surface assuming everything is evenly lit. Let the renderer supply the lighting and shadowing. ** Sorry what? Are you saying that the nostrils should be the same colour as the head? **

• Your eyelid edges don't line up with the figure. As a result, the texture eyelid edges are showing up on  the upper eyelid, and the makeup is out of line. Always test render with the eyes closed. I havent really tested it eyes open or close i was more focussed on the seams ect

• Get rid of the highlights from the lips. You've copied the lips in such a way that they exhibit what is called "burned in specular". You've captured the highlights from your photo source as if there are actual white spots on the lips. Paradoxically, this makes the lips look dry and flaky, instead of wet and shiny. Let the renderer/shader produce the specular highlights based on the lighting. OK so dull lips then

• Make a bump map to go with the color map, but do NOT make it from the color map. If you do that, you're going to create bumps in spots where the skin happened to have color variations or even burned in highlights that won't match when the light is moved to the side. If you can't produce a good bump map, then don't. I used a Turbulence node for bump here. A hand-made bump map is better than a turbulence node. A bump map made from the color map is worse than useless. It will detract from the realism. **I am sorry I dont know what you mean by not to make if from the colour map? Are you saying to create a new black and white version the way I created this one? Im a novice remember :) **

BB? Is the green tint around the mouth and chin area your lighting, the skin or my computer?

GreenEyedGirl...You have a very nice skin started here. 

Quote - BB? Is the green tint around the mouth and chin area your lighting, the skin or my computer?

GreenEyedGirl...You have a very nice skin started here. 

Thank You :) 

You're welcome. smiles

thanks anniebel, that is what I have been looking for.

BB thanks as well, am going to have to learn that node programming. It is extremely powerful.

here are two  tutorial how to get rid of highlights in skin textures .and also shadows. its for photoshop.

if you have a good quality picture then you should be able to get  90% diffuse skin

unsharpmasked.com/blog/2008/08/photoshop-high-pass-filter-removing-wrinkles-in-fabric-part-2/
www.ten24.info/oldman/vid_SpecRemoval.htm

thanks ice-boy.

Quote - > Quote - Nice start, but the black line is not the only problem.

Hope you don't mind some tips.

Please click my render to see it full size and observe the things I'm talking about.

I intentially lit the figure from the side here to make the problems worse.

• Don't draw nostril shadows. First of all, yours don't line up with the nostrils. Second, observe that with proper lighting, they are naturally dark in the right place, despite the fact that your texture is actually normal skin in the nostrils. Nostril shadowing is a lighting phenomenon. It is not a change in the skin color. Your texture should represent the color of the surface assuming everything is evenly lit. Let the renderer supply the lighting and shadowing. ** Sorry what? Are you saying that the nostrils should be the same colour as the head?**

Yep, that is what he's saying ;o).- > Quote - Your eyelid edges don't line up with the figure. As a result, the texture eyelid edges are showing up on  the upper eyelid, and the makeup is out of line. Always test render with the eyes closed. I havent really tested it eyes open or close i was more focussed on the seams ect

It's always a good idea to try and get rid of any specular points or areas on your photos when making a texture map for skin or any other kind of texture that will be used in a 3D program since the lighting and materials in the 3D program normally create those. Does that make sense? :o). He's just saying if you eliminate the shine on the lips on the texture map, it will look better and more natural once you bring it into Poser or whatever program you will be using it in :o).- > Quote - Make a bump map to go with the color map, but do NOT make it from the color map. If you do that, you're going to create bumps in spots where the skin happened to have color variations or even burned in highlights that won't match when the light is moved to the side. If you can't produce a good bump map, then don't. I used a Turbulence node for bump here. A hand-made bump map is better than a turbulence node. A bump map made from the color map is worse than useless. It will detract from the realism. I am sorry I dont know what you mean by not to make if from the colour map? Are you saying to create a new black and white version the way I created this one? Im a novice remember :)

A bump map made from a color map isn't ideal because of different things like specularity of skin and camera flash, angle of the shot, etc. If you make a bump map from a grayscale color map, it actually looks in some places like your bump is going outward rather than inward when it's rendered. Take leather for instance. If you photograph leather, the white area's around the skin's creases are where the leather is picking up the light reflection. 9 times out of 10 it's around the edges of the bumps and not the deepest part of them nor the highest part of them: the peak and valley of the bump so to speak. So if this is used for the bump, it looks "off" because it's the valley that you want to be the deepest part and the very tops that you want to be the highest part. What I just described would make the edges around the bumps the highest part, leaving a "dimple" where the bump should be the highest. I hope that makes sense :o).

Quote - BB? Is the green tint around the mouth and chin area your lighting, the skin or my computer?

It's in the texture.

 wow this is tougher than I thought.. might have to rethink it a little.:ohmy:

If you always think in terms of "white is high and black is low" you won't have so much trouble. It does take some thought though :o).

Laurie