Hi!

 I'm hoping someone might have experience with this. This is going to be a bit of a long post, but I plead with you to read, I'm really stressing out right now. :( Whoever takes the time to read and try to help will have my deepest gratitude.

I've worked very hard on an animation, and I'm proud to say it's my best, but when I go to save it to the library, and then load it up again, all hell breaks loose. I simply don't understand, I'm experienced with Poser animation and I've never had this issue.

 What happens is I load the animation pose, and it loads perfect, plays fine. But it's an animated loop that's meant to be able to be loaded again on the last frame and connect seamlessy (First and last frame are identical). This is where the problem starts.

 I load the second loop, and the IK on the limbs goes haywire and there's a lot of jittering. Also the first and last frame are not identical like they were on just the single loop. Even though the animation has a keyframe on every single frame (I do this so I can import into DAZ), loading the second loop alters my first loop! 

  I have a theory that morphs might be the problem. Why I think it is the morphs is because when I load the second loop, even tho the animation was saved without morph channels, I see parts of the mesh move/distort upon load.. it's very strange. I think it might have to do with a morph package I loaded (Ralfeta's bend morph). It seems buggy, like when I close the scene and re-open, the morph dials are there and at the values I set them at, but the morph has no effect. I move the dial, and nothing. So I have to load the Ralfeta morph inject pose again, and this for some reason creates a bunch of keyframes on the IK hands/feet, and makes them jittery. I fixed it by deleting the keys that were created, and continued working with the morphs embedded. So the scene with my complete animation still has the morphs in them.

 The problem I need to solve is the jittery limbs and why the animation gets screwy when I load it twice. The first and last frame should be identical.. and loading the second loop screws up the first, which is mind-boggling.

 Things I've tried in both Poser 7 and Poser 2010 (same results):

 - Keying all IK translates completely, then turning all keys to linear splines. Also tried spline breaking them all. This was an attempt to make sure the keys would stay put and not change upon loading the second loop.

• Turning off IK on the limbs in the scene where I have the original animation. This immediately makes the limbs jittery.

• Loading the animation onto a default V4 with no morphs embedded in her, and then resaving the animation.

=================================

  None of those worked. :( I'm so disheartened. I FINALLY got a non-jittery animation that I love, that took weeks, and now I don't know what to do.

 Any replies would be much appreciated. I'd be willing to send the animation if you have time to try and troubleshoot. I'd also give you the full package of animations when I'm done them as a thanks.

OH!

 I should also mention near the beginning I was experimenting with the Poser morphing brush (which I've never done before) to try and smooth some joints. I ended up zeroing the morph and not using it, but could that be a part of the problem?

 And another weird thing.. the second loop that I load, it plays fine.. but then when it gets to the start of the original loop, jitteryness.

 Another note, If I click "undo" immediately after loading the second loop, going back to one loop - the hands/feet are all mangled and broken. 

Grr, Poser is driving me bonkers.

 Yet another note.. but I figure any information can help:

 As I rotate around the scene and try to troubleshoot with different methods.. I discovered the weirdest thing. I'm comparing the first and last frame, both identical. Then I rotate the camera, all the sudden V4's mesh/morphs expand! Then I scroll to the last frame, the morphs/mesh revert back! Then without rotating, I scrub between the first and last frame, and the mesh/morphs don't move......

 Something very strange is going on here. :(

Hi post  A screen capture of your animation Pallet with BOTH

animations loaded.

Cheers.

Quote - I load the second loop, and the IK on the limbs goes haywire and there's a lot of jittering.

I would always recommend turning IK off before saving any pose, animated or not. In my experience, saving a pose whilst IK is turned on is asking for trouble.

I don't think that IK is the only problem, it sounds like something else is going on as well. If the pose is for one of the recent DAZ figures V4, M4, or similar, I suspect that the 'bodyMorphs' actor could be a source of trouble. If your pose does not need to express FBMs, I suggest you try deleting the 'bodyMorphs' actor from the pose file. If it does need to express FBMs, I suggest that you set the 'bodyMorphs' actor to use Linear interpolation, and delete all but the first frame for that actor. I can't guarantee that any of this will solve your problem, but those are the first things I would try.

 Hey, it's just a big wall of green. I select everything and keyframe it, otherwise it doesn't import into DAZ properly. I've done it before with no problems.

Quote - Hi post  A screen capture of your animation Pallet with BOTH

animations loaded.

 

Cheers.

 Is there any way I can strip the figure in my scene of all morphs before I save my animation? A script of some sort? That way I can get rid of all the morphs completely, save just the translation keyframes, and then text edit in the morph keyframes.

That's what I usually do.. but these morphs seem to be saving into my animation even though I deselect the "Morph channels" option when saving the pose.

Quote - > Quote - I load the second loop, and the IK on the limbs goes haywire and there's a lot of jittering.

I would always recommend turning IK off before saving any pose, animated or not. In my experience, saving a pose whilst IK is turned on is asking for trouble.

I don't think that IK is the only problem, it sounds like something else is going on as well. If the pose is for one of the recent DAZ figures V4, M4, or similar, I suspect that the 'bodyMorphs' actor could be a source of trouble. If your pose does not need to express FBMs, I suggest you try deleting the 'bodyMorphs' actor from the pose file. If it does need to express FBMs, I suggest that you set the 'bodyMorphs' actor to use Linear interpolation, and delete all but the first frame for that actor. I can't guarantee that any of this will solve your problem, but those are the first things I would try.

Quote - Is there any way I can strip the figure in my scene of all morphs before I save my animation? A script of some sort? That way I can get rid of all the morphs completely, save just the translation keyframes, and then text edit in the morph keyframes.

That's what I usually do.. but these morphs seem to be saving into my animation even though I deselect the "Morph channels" option when saving the pose.

If you did not select "Include morph channels in pose set" when you saved the pose, then you should not have a any data for the morph channels in your pose file. However to answer you question, yes there is a way.

Run the free  utility "Morph Manager 4" (MM4) Load any pz2 (pose) file in the left window (this forces MM4 to display more options), now load the pz3 (scene) file that you want to process in the same left window. Click the "More Options" button and select "Delete all morph targets from file. Save the file back to disk. You can use MM4 to delete morphs from pz3, cr2, or pp2 fies.

Ockham has a py script that is supposed to strip any morph channels that are set to zero "StripZero.zip", but I have never used it myself.

Note that if you delete all the morphs from the figure, this means that you are also deleting any JCM (joint controled morphs),  and this means that the figure may not look as intended when it is posed.

Hi
I ran a simple test animation V4 With IK Jumping up off the ground with feet landing
over 90 frames.

saved the animated pose file

tried to apply a second loop of  it to V4 and the second it loaded her feet visibly shifted.

I am Afraid you are NOT going to like the results of my "investigation" as they confirmed what I already suspected was your Culprit.

POSER'S "IK"  IMPLEMENTATION IS .......GARBAGE!!!

I discovered this much to my Horror in a commercial film animation project
poser IK is an all or nothing Scenario that cannot be mixed with NON IK motions  nor even be mixed with itself when using animated poses where it originally was used.

You used IK to get "Feet Pinning"  or "hand pinning"in your animation I assume.

HOWEVER this "Feet pinning" has no actual animation channels and therefore Cannot actually hold TRUE EDITABLE keyframes despite your
Attempt to do so by Filling the entire animation pallet with keyframes. ( As I often Do after sparse handkeying)

So your animated pose did not actually "Store"   the feet pinning just the positions the feet  held
and poser somehow cant correctly "remember" the exact placement of the feet  and tries to "guess" when the pose is reapplied.

Hence the jitter/jerkeys that dont actually display in the graph editor but adversely affect your figure

MY only solution was to tediously hand key the feet in place with NO IK  in use anywhere in the animation
And this was on a figure needing his feet pinned to  a skateboard performing curb& Rail tricks!!!

hope you find a solution for your sequence.

Cheers

 Wow wolf359, you're right. I went back to my old animations that use IK, ones that I said never gave me this issue, loaded a second loop, and the feet got jumpy on the first loop. I can't believe I never noticed it before... I usually just render one loop then loop the actual video in a video editor for a seamless animation.

 Yeah it's for the feet/hand pinning. I can't believe how difficult it is for something as simple as that. :/ This is so disappointing.

  I took your advice and turned off the IK and then I used a smoothing method of  deleting blocks of two frames at a time on the collar, shoulder, hand and thigh, shin, foot. This seems to have helped. There is still jittering, but it's less noticeable. I'm a perfectionist so this is frustrating, but oh well.

Since that issue is solved, onto the morph problem:

Could the problem be that two of my morph injections I loaded are using the same channel? For this animation I loaded Ralfeta's bend morph and PoseidenTech's Misty.

 Or do you think it's the IK only that's causing these weird bugs, like me seeing the mesh expand and stuff as I rotate around? I guess I'll find out soon when I start saving out the non-IK version. Will keep you posted.

 Thanks again guys. :)

<put all this IK problem thing into a report and send to SM.

"onto the morph problem:

Could the problem be that two of my morph injections I loaded are using the same channel? For this animation I loaded Ralfeta's bend morph and PoseidenTech's Misty.
"

Hi honestly I dont use commercial morph sets
as I just use the Default figures in my commercial work.
So I cant  offer any useful advice on how morphs might be causing issues
but unfortunately on the IK matter I  am Certain about  its Shortcomings.

Cheers

 One workaround I figured I'd share in case it helps anyone is to increase the frame range to double the amount of the loop, then select all the keyframes in the animation pallette, then alt+drag them all to the right until it fits into the empty keyframes. This won't screw up the IK.

 Unfortunately for me, I'll be making several different animations that all connect to each other, so that won't work for me. Oh well.

This is the only reason I keep a copy of DAZ studio 2.3 with aniMate+
it is true NONlinear motion blending .

and it can Export animated pz2's back to poser.

trying to combine different motions in poser is just not worth the effort to me.

cheers

Report it......

I did several times, as I hate IK too.. for other reasons, but . .
The more reports?
Can wake them up. Read as;  shake them up.

"Report it......

I did several times, as I hate IK too.. for other reasons, but . .
The more reports?
Can wake them up. Read as;  shake them up."

Please !!!

I am on version6 and the OP is on PP2010
what does that tell you??

That SM has not updated poser animation tools since Curious labs poser4
this is not some recent "bug"
it is a lack of interest in updating the animation features in the program.
not complaining though I have already decided after this Film contract is completed We are  moving over to the professional CA tools we have In Cinema4D Studio.

Cheers

@Wolf
My point being; lots of people write lots of things in the wrong places.
A forum can get you help, can bring tips and tricks, but a forum is not the pace to report bugs in a software.

Too few people report back to the builder of the different softwares.
(Not only talking Poser or SM here)

Everyone has his or her own workflow. it is impossible to test everything before release and not a single software is completely bugfree. The problem is finding them.

The more detailed reports, the better the bugs can be found and removed. 

Attached Link: http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/812/m0s.mp4/

"This is my method of animating with IK on and off. I have no complaints."

Hmmm I guess whatever works for each individual.

I sat and watched for ten minutes and
never saw anything  that would justify that tedious set up of the invisible
blue proxy figure in creating that animation.
POSE TO POSE ANIMATION
can be useful for things like walking up stairs

But Honestly the brief one and a half second s of animation you produced in this video
could have been very easily
BLOCKED  OUT

in mere  seconds properly using the spline graph editor
not the ten minutes you took.
I would NEVER make any money animating that way
but to each their own.

Cheers