genesis is still a bit too slow in poser to be really useful. I quite like M4. He's liek a V4 but without all those revolting magents.  He's not a bad figure at all.

Love esther

I agree it is extremely slow, but still the overall results you can achieve are better. End of the day it is your render, and you want it to look good. Sometimes its worth it. M4 is still a good option as well. I have nothing against Tyler, except he is too distinct and does not have enough flexability for my needs. Also those bend issues are terrible. End of the day, use what you want to use.

Looks good. Thats is one thing I am glad I don't have to deal with aymore, INJ files. All my morphs are ready to roll lol.

nah, not worth it for me as I have to make too many renders for my toons. I will wait and see if things improve and in the meanttime I'm trying not to buy too much genesis stuff that I can't use properly as yet.

Genesis is slow, even on a quadcore. And consumes RAM like hell's on fire.

The average home end dual core PC is just lost.......

A hyper quad can cope with a single Gene, but goes on its knees in a loaded scene.

This is for hi end 64 bit OS  @ machines only. Give me an obj file, a cr2 and a texture. That all I need for Poser.

The end question is? Who is this for??

The elite with the computing power? Or the masses with average PC's and MAC's?

I've got a highend mac, with a ton of ram but I still can't cope.  we need to find a way to convert our morphed genesis to a Cr2 and then all will be well in our world I should imagine.

Love esther

Ye..I have an I7 and 16GB ram and its still very slow. Going to see what the latest Dson Importer improved.

not a lot as far as I can tell.  Unless i misinstalled something.  Hard to know since the old one  might still be working instead, and I guess we can't see a version number from within poser.

The thing I like about the INJ system is that you could load only the morphs you needed.  That was kind of the point, I thought.  Figures could come pre-loaded with all their morphs, but then you bog down your system for stuff you're not even using. 

I gather with DSON, you once again end up carrying all the morphs.  Does it work that way in DS, too?  Or is this just a Poser/DSON issue?

that is a concern.  Maybe a python script that deletes all the unecessary morphs in one hit would be the go.

@randym77 Yes it does, but it is extremely fast in DS. Loading time on a figure with all my Genx transfers is like 10secs max. If they can get that speed in Poser we all good.

Quote - Ye..I have an I7 and 16GB ram and its still very slow. Going to see what the latest Dson Importer improved.

Yes, exact same here. i7 and 16GB.

I can manage a couple of Genies tops before it really starts to struggle.

I'd really like to be able to "bake" a standard cr2, with all unused morphs removed, and a static obj, from the DSON Importer... once I've dialled up my options using a loaded, fully dynamic Genesis figure (which has all morphs loaded).

I'm not sure if Daz's reasons for withholding the above feature are due to an actual technical limitation, or concerns about how that impacts on the user experience, or losing software rights restrictions in some way...

...or that just that they haven't gotten round to it... or haven't even considered adding such a feature to the DSON Importer, as yet?

Quote - @randym77 Yes it does, but it is extremely fast in DS. Loading time on a figure with all my Genx transfers is like 10secs max. If they can get that speed in Poser we all good.

I think DS4.5 must implement some form of caching system (an on-the-fly morph baking system perhaps) that is not (as yet) present in the DSON Importer system...

...such a feature would quite possibly have to work very differently in Poser, internally. So I'd be inclined to suspect they haven't been able to just rip that code out of DS4.5 and stick it in the DSON Importer?

At the moment I'm just going down the route of morph-dialling and posing, and clothing, and then baking an object, via an export as obj, import as prop approach...

...but the big downside is that the pose is then fixed too, of course!

Makes for resource efficient rendering though...

Quote - > Quote - @randym77 Yes it does, but it is extremely fast in DS. Loading time on a figure with all my Genx transfers is like 10secs max. If they can get that speed in Poser we all good.

I think DS4.5 must implement some form of caching system (an on-the-fly morph baking system perhaps) that is not (as yet) present in the DSON Importer system...

...such a feature would quite possibly have to work very differently in Poser, internally. So I'd be inclined to suspect they haven't been able to just rip that code out of DS4.5 and stick it in the DSON Importer?

This would actual need to be native to poser; I suspect the calls between python and c++ is killing the speed.

This is what Wim had to say about the problem with slowness of genesis in poser:-

"

There seems to be a bug in which the importer redoes all the morph transfer for each item every time you add a new one. So when you load 6 genesis items with 2 pieces of clothing and hair, the last item will take more than 10 minutes to load. But I think this bug is being addressed. If that bug is gone, the overhead will (probably) acceptable to me

Posing the figure does not seem to be slower as with other figures"

Quote - This is what Wim had to say about the problem with slowness of genesis in poser:-

 

"

There seems to be a bug in which the importer redoes all the morph transfer for each item every time you add a new one. So when you load 6 genesis items with 2 pieces of clothing and hair, the last item will take more than 10 minutes to load. But I think this bug is being addressed. If that bug is gone, the overhead will (probably) acceptable to me

Posing the figure does not seem to be slower as with other figures"

Yes... this is what I've noticed.

I suspect some of the DSON Importer processes (e.g. the morph transfer) are meant to be multi-threaded (and will be in DS4.5) but are ending up single-threaded in Poser... probably due to that python / C++ interaction. Hopefully they'll be able to fix this. I had got wind somewhere there was some to-ing and fro-ing between Daz and SM going on.

I'm sure SM are committed to supporting their plugin API, and making it work well in general, for plugin makers... even if their current working relationship with Daz is just on those terms. I have no idea about the level of cooperation that is going on of course...

...I'm sure this sort of improvement, if indeed it is needed here, will benefit Paulo's Reality Studio for Poser too, for one thing.

I've turned off the DSON Importer progress windows, in the preferences too, at present... and that helped a little with the speed too, I think.

If you want to see what Tyler looks like at his best then Blackhearted's promo renders are a good place to start. (I haven't used him in anger yet, as I got too depressed with the foreskin problem and sulked. ;) )

I find M4 squashy and rather unpleasant.... although I've got a few characters for him more recently that have been great improvements and made M4 a bit less of a doughball. I can still only stand him if he's well covered in armour. LOL.

Quote - Actually, if you look in the Renderosity free stuff, there are a number of face morphs for Tyler.  The Fabiana and basicwiz ones do show some real promise using dial spins only.  Here's a link to the freebies, searching on Tyler:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/search.php?section_id=-1&query=Tyler

I just didn't use any of them because, once again, felt you were asking about Tyler and it would be inappropriate to use morphs to answer the basic question.

Thank you for the link, those look really fantastic. The face room would be nice option to consider, however, I never got any fine results using the face room. It's not a fault of how the Face Room works or anything but I just don't know how to do it correctly. My attempts with the Morph Brush have been painful too ... despite some minor tweaks I have not been able to achieve anything useful till now. But at least, with the Morph Brush I could imagine to come back to it again and figure out what I'm doing wrong. While with the Face Room I've given up hope. It's good to see DAZ are improving the DSON importer since I'm still slightly leaning towards M5 if I switch to a next generation figure because I really love to use my M4 textures I bought or created so far. My texture abilities are fairly ... limited to non-existent and although I spent hours creating them this is something (unlike postwork) that I really didn't enjoy. So I'd really prefer to keep them somehow (be it that I only need little changes to adjust them instead of creating them completely anew). Though the speed problem do scare me off a bit. I plan on upgrading my hardware next, but if it's still comparably slow on a i7 machine with 16 GB I seem lost on this one ... however if they continue to improve the importer, I could wait patiently if there's still hope this could be fixed (said after waiting patiently for 4 hours of rendering. Sigh. But still my old hardware). If it wouldn't bother someone too much, can someone post a render with M5 in a pose with arms crossed in front of the chest? Cause this is one thing that annoys me much with M4 - I simply can't get this look good, whatever I do and whatever I try. Maybe the Smoothing Morphs linked earlier in this thread fix that, I haven't tried on them yet.

Here you go. You have to disable those ridiculously strict joint limits, though.

Quote - At the moment I'm just going down the route of morph-dialling and posing, and clothing, and then baking an object, via an export as obj, import as prop approach...

...but the big downside is that the pose is then fixed too, of course!

Makes for resource efficient rendering though...

I used to do this way back in the day when I was running Poser 5 on 1 GB ram.

But trying it these days, I have trouble with shaders. They never seem to import properly. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

Quote - > Quote - At the moment I'm just going down the route of morph-dialling and posing, and clothing, and then baking an object, via an export as obj, import as prop approach...

...but the big downside is that the pose is then fixed too, of course!

Makes for resource efficient rendering though...

I used to do this way back in the day when I was running Poser 5 on 1 GB ram.

But trying it these days, I have trouble with shaders. They never seem to import properly. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

I save an mc6 before I export the figure as obj.

This is because the actual Poser shaders will, of course, not get exported to obj properly. At best you'll get the textures, probably. so I disregard this. It's really just the baked (morphed and in-pose) figure geometry I'm after, as the end result of the import/export.

So, with my mc6 stored, then, Its just the existing mat group / material zone names (and polygon assignments) I'm worried about retaining, at the end of the export / import process... it's just important that these don't get renamed somehow, basically.

After I've reimported the obj as a prop, I reapply the mc6 to the static prop... which should have the same mat zones as the original figure had.

Hopefully, jobs a good'un ;-)

You don't need to have Zbrush to completely change the face on a Poser character (Ryan and Tyler included). Blender's sculpting tools enable you to do it at no cost. There is no GoBlender like there is GoZ, but exporting and importing an obj file is simple enough.

M3Mdia

Is that M5 in Poser-or Daz Studio? I have been told that the bending is better with Genesis in DAZ than in Poser. Is that true?If the OP is using Poser-then that is a relevant question. EDIT: I see you also posted a Poser render.

I know there are also "fix" morphs for sale for Genesis as well as V4/M4 to correct unrealistic bends.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - .... don't think you can do this with Tyler...

You can do it with any character if scaling is set up. If scaling is not set up it wont work so well.

Nothing but scales messed with in this.

Unfortunately, those shapes look a bit weird. It doesn't still solve the custom body issue.

Anyway, an old test render... inner thigh looks better than ryan's and has with a custom shape.

No postwork.

 

Very nice!

Quote - A Genesis morph sporting the Dave texture, just to throw something out there that's not a pretty-boy.

I think the left version could be made into a good Alien

Quote - Lol, I wasnt trying real hard to make them look "Perfect" or "Human"  I was just giving an example of the fact that scaling works on the character for the most part. Guessing that was missed.

I have to agree with the weight mapping issue on Tyler. But that is easy to fix.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - At the moment I'm just going down the route of morph-dialling and posing, and clothing, and then baking an object, via an export as obj, import as prop approach...

...but the big downside is that the pose is then fixed too, of course!

Makes for resource efficient rendering though...

I used to do this way back in the day when I was running Poser 5 on 1 GB ram.

But trying it these days, I have trouble with shaders. They never seem to import properly. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

I save an mc6 before I export the figure as obj.

This is because the actual Poser shaders will, of course, not get exported to obj properly. At best you'll get the textures, probably. so I disregard this. It's really just the baked (morphed and in-pose) figure geometry I'm after, as the end result of the import/export.

So, with my mc6 stored, then, Its just the existing mat group / material zone names (and polygon assignments) I'm worried about retaining, at the end of the export / import process... it's just important that these don't get renamed somehow, basically.

After I've reimported the obj as a prop, I reapply the mc6 to the static prop... which should have the same mat zones as the original figure had.

Hopefully, jobs a good'un ;-)

I hadn't thought of that. Brilliant! :) Thank you.

What export/import settings do you use to make sure you retain the mat zones? (I guess I could test it for myself, but if you just happen to know off hand without having to fire up Poser to look, that'd be great)

I tried the newest DSON importer-and used a Genesis with lots of morphs being used. I loaded and conformed the Daz Genesis Elf Dress (which I like). Total time? 60 minutes!

Twenty to conform 8 pieces of clothing-40 to go through the extensive list of morphs and project possible effect on fit. At the end- the pointed ears deform the hood.

With a single M4 and skimpy shorts-it would be much faster. I tried the same outfit on default V5 and it was much quicker-since there were many few active morphs to transfer.

When there are no morphs to project-the whole fitting of clothing using the Transfer Active Morphs is not PAINFULLY slow.Unfortunately for me-I bought a LOT of body and face morph packs when they were cheap.So I can make Genesis look like nearly anything I want-but if I want to fit an eight piece clothing set? OUCH!

Status with the newest DSON importer-and a not top end computer-but likely faster than many are using.

Time to load a Genesis with numerous morphs and conform the Daz Elf Dress-20 minutes on a Quad Xeon 2.66 Ghz. Now to transfer Active morphs....at 2 minutes its testing to see if the PHM Cheekbone morph will effect the Elven Belt.... at 3 minutes Elven Belt: PHMNoseSeptumHeight.... 4 minutes Elven Belt: PHMcrowsfeet. I HATE it when a crows feet morph for the eyes is not taken into account when fitting a belt!

6minutes Elven Bracelet:PHMNoseBridgeHeight. Yep! The nose bridge height can really affect the bracelet fit! At 7:45 minutes Elven Cape: PHMCheekBoneSize at 9 minutes it's projecting Elven Cape:PHMNoseSeptumHeight. At 10 EvenCape:PBMLineaAlba at 11 ElvenCape:PHMEyesPuffyUpper! 12:45 minutes PHMEyesPupilDilate 12 minutes ElvenCape:PBMThin (now THAT morph WILL have an effect!)

Get the idea? AND THAT is why I am not doing much with Genesis..... At FORTY Minutes-it's calculating Eye size and Elven Tiara fit. And it is done! So TWENTY to conform all the clothing, FORTY to transfer active morphs.

With Vanilla Genesis-or V5 and no other morphs-it is much faster. Or with a single clothing object.

Quote - that is a concern.  Maybe a python script that deletes all the unecessary morphs in one hit would be the go.

Quote - Sixty minutes to conform and transfer active morphs to fit the clothing to Genesis.

Holy guacamole.  That's insane.

Quote -
I hadn't thought of that. Brilliant! :) Thank you.

What export/import settings do you use to make sure you retain the mat zones? (I guess I could test it for myself, but if you just happen to know off hand without having to fire up Poser to look, that'd be great)

@Moriador

Off the top of my head, I think just leave all the options unticked on both export and reimport... and your prop-ified figure should import back in, in the same spot, same scale, as your original figure.

It seems that the timing has to do with the number of active morphs-i.e. dials not at zero. To set up Genesis, Add and conform the 9 piece Elf Dress, for default V5 was only a little over FIVE minutes.

For this character I am "Actively" using a little bit of many morphs from many morph packs-so it projects each of them on each and every clothing item.

I tried the same dress on default Genesis. A bit over 5 minutes to conform all 9 clothing items. And with the default there were no Active morphs-so seconds to fit. The Magus outfit (5 pieces) took less time.

THEN I dialed in V5. And The V5 Full Body Morph was projected with every clothing item-for a total of 30 seconds. JUST the V5 morph.

That is a HUGE difference. If I had a way to make all the dial spins-then save it as a single morph-I imagine it would drop 1 hour down to a little over 5 minutes.

Quote - > Quote - Sixty minutes to conform and transfer active morphs to fit the clothing to Genesis.

Holy guacamole.  That's insane.

You got it monkeycloud, I do the same thing... all options unticked. works like a charm and makes things a hell of alot easier in poser.

I've never encountered any mat zone problems using this approach. I think people tend to forget that the only difference between a figure and a prop is body part groups and rig... as if it's some magical thing.

...Sometimes will save the final morphing of various things for the "furniture" as all body parts are welded at this point and you don't have to deal with the sundry headaches of a "living" figure. Clothes too.

@JoePublic and Zev0: thank you very much! They look very good! And now that I see your work, it comes to my mind maybe one of the reasons why my arms-crossed M4 always looks to horrible might be I'm doing something wrong with the arms, so it could be my own stupidity rather than the shortcomings of the figure itself. I'll have to look at it again. But your versions both look excellent. The slow-thing: I don't have bought any clothes for M4 and don't plan on using anything for the upcoming figure, whatever I might be buying, so this is not really an issue for me, though total 60 min for conforming an entire clothing set is ... slow, yeah slow :(

Quote - The slow-thing: I don't have bought any clothes for M4 and don't plan on using anything for the upcoming figure, whatever I might be buying, so this is not really an issue for me, though total 60 min for conforming an entire clothing set is ... slow, yeah slow :(

Yeah, if you're just doing nudes or not using many clothes, it's not going to be anywhere near 60 minutes.