Quote - Carrara is of not much value if it weren't for Daz/Poser contents integration.

And these people consider that DAZ badly perform the work o_0

Quote - That is it though. I used to look forward to DAZ sales. I'd join the Pclub in August or September and run it through to march or April because that was the time of the big DAZ sales. I haven't the past couple of years because there really is no reason to. There just doesn't seem to be any "special time of year" sales. DAZ may call them as much, but with the non stop sales there's nothing "special" about them. I get DAZ sales spam practically daily. I've been tempted to put them straight in to my spam filter and just forget about them.

I have to disagree with you here Stan.

For me the frequency doesn't dictate the value of a sale, it's the price.

True, the PC sale was special because of the way it was conducted (voting, etc). Even there, the PRICE is what really did it for me. Remember we used to get long lists of brand NEW items, along with oldies and BUNDLES (Dragon, Aiko Pro, etc) and we got to vote on the top 10 and those would be up for $1.99 each. WOW! Great price!

Contrast that with this past sale. No voting. Items for 44%off not $1.99. There were a few items that were priced at $1.59 the day they were released, but most of that were poses and textures for Genesis. In fact most of the new stuff out was for Genesis, even when it didn't have to be.

Same with the PA sale. At first you had to buy 3 items to get the 50% off. Then you needed a calculator to see if they actually gave you the right price.

Also, consider the FastGrab. I used to get stuff from there regularly. Now the prices seem higher and the Grabs not as good a value. I can't remember the last FastGrab I got.

I could live with things regularly being on sale ALL the time if the PRICES were as good as they used to be.

I'm an artist and do this professionally, and can always use low prices, because I don't really make much.

Constant non-sale "sales" do me no good. If Daz kept the prices right, I would be very happy. As it is constant buy 2 to get sale prices, and other crap gets ignored by me.

well said, the really annoying thing about Genesis is that daz keeps expecting me to buy stuff I have already bought before for M4 etc, so it's easy to say 'no'.

Daz's prices certainly seem to have gone sky high. I guess they figure they have the market cornered -

having the market cornered is true in some ways

 but someone will take advantage of their high pricing structure to  make cheaper models -

as far as I can see Daz has great presentation, but I admit that a lot of stuff I have bought recently looks nothing like that represented in the renders - I've been doing  this for a while so I could have a "fair" go at acheiving the same quality in the renders daz is showing but a lot of new people must be wondering WTF when they do their first renders of their chosen purchase.

It all leads to customer loyalty fading. DAZ doesn't seem to realise (or forgets)  it costs a lot more to gain a new customer than it does to keep an existing one 

Honestly, I don't really care who takes over Carrara, as long as they get it away from DAZ. The one reason why I loved Carrara was because of Transposer. I could do all of my work in Poser, my posing program of choice, and then render it and build a scene in Carrara. That was the perfect workflow for me. But it seems DAZ has made a concerted effort to make Carrara as Poser un-friendly as possible, so it's highly unlikely I'll shell out any money for Carrara 9 whenever it comes out.

I "used" to be a faithful Carrara user.

I bought 6 ($$), then 6pro ($$$)... Then they gave away 6pro for free.

So I upgraded to 7pro ($$$$)... Then they gave that away for free.

So I refused to buy 8+ (cause they twice made me a git)

I've kept with 7pro when I need it. I might grab 8pro IF it goes free, but I'm not getting suckered again.

Giving carrara away free was a successful marketing strategy. It put C6 in the hands of people that then upgraded to 7. It put C7 in the hands of people that then upgraded to 8. But with DAZ charging $285 before discounts for a .5 update I don't see them giving C8 away. 
 
Personally I think they need to sell DAZ period before this new crew that is managing it manage it right in to the ground. I mean DAZ is little more then a brokerage house now. 
 
Are they even developing Studio now? DAZ used to release a new version of Studio practically every year. Studio 4 is over 3 years old now and has gotten a total of 2 updates; and the main bugs I encounter still aren't fixed.

The previous versions given away free were also in magazines that reviewed the newest versions of Carrara. The free versions also usually incuded some discount code for the newest version. Definite marketing strategy.

I don't recall seeing Carrara 8.5 reviewed anywhere and definitely no 8.1 given away free. I could be wrong, but there was an almost deafening silence outside of the DAZ forums regarding the release of 8.5. There may have been a whimper in a few other forums, but not much.

The question I'd ask is why DAZ, who is all about making more money, didn't widely advertise the newest version of Carrara this time?

Yeah, it was good for them to get more people interested, but I actually felt chumped out.

So, they lost me as a customer.... and I was a good customer.

There was probably a number of us that felt like that. The Upgrade was a little high since I've already invested a large amount of $ for Carrara.

I just didn't want to get suckered into buying the upgrade, only to see it go for free a few months later (not how it happened but I saw it happen twice before) so what was the point in me forking out the cash if it was likely to become free? This whas my thinking. I still wont buy it because I'm believing that as soon as I buy it, it WILL end up free.

Jarrod was cool tho, we are still friends... but the end result is I was put-off on ever purchasing Carrara again.

I instead invested my $$$ in Zbrush, at least I get free upgrades. These 3D companies are really gouging their customers at times.

I'm fine with Carrara 7pro, sounds like it wasn't really worth the upgrade since I work a lot in Poser and import everything into Carrara.

Tho, lately I've replace Carrara with Messiah Studio for anything I needed animated.

Quote - Daz's prices certainly seem to have gone sky high. I guess they figure they have the market cornered -

That's not why.

As a broker, you automatically lose 50% of the sale to DAZ.  Then they go and put it on sale for 50%... or worse.  With the stacking coupons this last sale, people saw discounts as high as 75% off of the things they were selling.  And those discounts come off BEFORE the 50/50 split.  So, broker something at DAZ for $10, hope to make $5, but actually get $1.25 - that hurts... tends to make one want to quit selling.  The only way that DAZ PA's have to work around the endless sales is to price accordingly - if you want to make $10, your product needs to come out priced AT LEAST $20 if not $30.

I think Bucknyne's sarcastic comment summed it up rather eloquently when he said that he doesn't care who takes over Carrara, as long as they take it away from Daz.

I also agree with ManleyStanley that maybe Daz, the entire company, should be sold to a more qualified team of professionals, before the whole operation ends-up in a disaster.

Should this happen, I would first split Daz into 2 companies with 2 separate balance sheets, one for contents and one for software.

I wil then sell Daz Contents Company to Renderosity or Content Paradise. And I will sell Daz Software Corporation to either Adobe or Sony Creative Software.

Quote - > Quote - Daz's prices certainly seem to have gone sky high. I guess they figure they have the market cornered -

 

That's not why.

 

As a broker, you automatically lose 50% of the sale to DAZ.  Then they go and put it on sale for 50%... or worse.  With the stacking coupons this last sale, people saw discounts as high as 75% off of the things they were selling.  And those discounts come off BEFORE the 50/50 split.  So, broker something at DAZ for $10, hope to make $5, but actually get $1.25 - that hurts... tends to make one want to quit selling.  The only way that DAZ PA's have to work around the endless sales is to price accordingly - if you want to make $10, your product needs to come out priced AT LEAST $20 if not $30.

Ouch!

yea scary... thats a shafting.

But of course Carrara isn't someone elses contribution to the store. Daz gets 100% of that.

Seriously if it wasn't for Mark Bremmer and his tutorials, along with other Carrara users, I think Carrara would have sunk before 8.

Its a really clunky type of design which reminds me of a complicated version of TrueSpace 7.

Mark help those of us who could afford the VTC, and in turn we took that knowlege and spread it amongst others who were trying to wrap their heads around the interface.

If it went to E-frontier I think it would be shelved, I don't think Pixologic would pick it up, Pix is in a total niche of its own.

Roman Ormandy should pick it up and call it "true-Carrera-Space".

Why do you think I am always carrying on about DAZ making their profit off the backs of their PAs. It's my opinion the constant DAZ rolercoster of sales may be the ruination of DAZ. As more and more big name PAs take their work else where; and they are, DAZ will lose it's main and practically only source of income.

Before studio got the figure set up tools in studio 3, to me studio was nothing but a sales gimmick. It was made and given away specifically to sell content. It had no other use. At that time I was useing Poser 5/6 to work on content. Even though I had dabbled with Studio since it's release, I never took it seriously till it got tools; that I paid for.

The turning point for DAZ was the release of studio 4 or should I say being bought out by that online avatar company.Studio 4 was the last version of studio that had the original DAZ crew working on it. You see what has happened since. Development of not only Carrara but Studio as well, has slowed to berly perceivable. DAZ seems to be spending all it's time managing it's stable of PAs.

The time will come when DAZ's profiting off the work of PAs will end up breaking the backs of the PAs. More and more will leave starving off the crumbs from the table DAZ leaves them, to some place they can get a decent meal from the food they provide.

Note: I am 12 for 15 now. Some day DAZ might start listening.

So to tie this back to the topic; ;), Yes DAZ needs to give it up and sell the company to a group that actually can develop apps and sell content with out leaving just table scraps for the PAs providing said content, and disapointing it's customers with overpriced lack luster app releases.

First, regarding Truespace, the amount of the deal was never disclosed. But at that time some people in the TS forums put forward the sum of $700M, yup seven hundred million dollars!

This sum sounds greatly exaggerated to me, but even if it were 1/10 th of that, ie. 'only' $70M, it still was a very sweet deal for Roman.

Regarding DAZ, It's good to see that momentum is building-up here for the whole company to be sold.

The question is now how much is Daz worth?

Let's assume that Daz splits into 2 companies, one for contents, and one for software.

I cannot tell how much the Daz Content Corporation is worth. But the Daz Software Corporation will not be worth much, probably $500K to $1M at the very most, with a median value of $750K.

Daz Studio isn't worth zilch, because nobody will pay to acquire a software product that is still WIP and is given away for free.

The price to acquire Carrara + Hexagon + Bryce + Mimic? I personally wouldn't pay more than $500K, at most $750K, for all of them, and at this price I expect to get unrestricted lifetime Daz/Poser content licences as well.

Well I'm hoping some responcable company will come in and buy it all out. But I don't expect the till DAZ folds or is so far in debt that they have no choice. But then as long as DAZ is making a big profit with little to no effort on their I don't see that happening.

I mean really how much could it cost to maintain a brokerage site? It's not like they have or need a lot of emplies to do it.

That is my take,

I know that in coding it would be an freaky big job.

They should merge the best of Bryce, Carrara and Hex to make only 1 software. I know some peoples don't like that idea but i still like this one.

If i had the money for it, i would try to get every licences for Carrara and Hex and have coding guys look at the code and try to get something running.

But i would be a small studio, Carrara would need the developpment of a bigger player that would understand Carrara coding language and see what can be done.

I know it is not that easy, but with good money and effort, it could be done. But how many years of developement would that be??? too long maybe???

I know Carrara since it was known to be RayDream Studio. But i am a hobbiest at the moment so i don't use them all the time.

Anyway, this thread is very interesting.

I learned this with freeware, meaning my modeler and render engine were separate apps. I tried my hand at boning/rigging on a few apps but carrara was the only one I managed it with.

I mean I like separate apps for separate jobs, so I really wouldn't want Hex dropped in carrara. I don't use carrara's modeling room for more then quick shapes and content modding; when that works. Comes right down to it I use modeling in the assembly room far more then the modeling room.

I'd love to see Bryce's atmospherics in carrara. I used terragen for years before I got Carrara, so I have always found carrara's atmospherics weak. In fact I really need to put some effort in to relearning Terragen so I can make some beautiful HDRIs.

But like a car manufacturer you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You need products that will fit different customers.

So say DAZ made cars; eeeeeck, rather then Apps.

Carrara would be the luxury sedan.

Studio would be the SUV.

Bryce would be the top end luxury truck. Tried and true sturdy work horse.

Hexagon would be the small truck. Something for delivering or hauling boxes, but not good for anything else. Cheap, easy to operate, gets the job done; if it's not too heavy.

Now if all those had exchangeable parts it makes operating smooth and easy.

I'd love to see the 4 apps able to speak fluently to each other.

Quote - I learned this with freeware, meaning my modeler and render engine were separate apps. I tried my hand at boning/rigging on a few apps but carrara was the only one I managed it with.

I mean I like separate apps for separate jobs, so I really wouldn't want Hex dropped in carrara. I don't use carrara's modeling room for more then quick shapes and content modding; when that works. Comes right down to it I use modeling in the assembly room far more then the modeling room.

I'd love to see Bryce's atmospherics in carrara. I used terragen for years before I got Carrara, so I have always found carrara's atmospherics weak. In fact I really need to put some effort in to relearning Terragen so I can make some beautiful HDRIs.

But like a car manufacturer you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You need products that will fit different customers.

So say DAZ made cars; eeeeeck, rather then Apps.

Carrara would be the luxury sedan.

Studio would be the SUV.

Bryce would be the top end luxury truck. Tried and true sturdy work horse.

Hexagon would be the small truck. Something for delivering or hauling boxes, but not good for anything else. Cheap, easy to operate, gets the job done; if it's not too heavy.

Now if all those had exchangeable parts it makes operating smooth and easy.

I'd love to see the 4 apps able to speak fluently to each other.

It has been a long time since i use Terragen, amazing piece of software.

I started in 3D when i bought Bryce 3D, so many lovely hours of learning.

But for modeling, i try to user more often Moi 3D, nurbs modeler. After that i use the one from Cinema 4D.

I am learning the one from Carrara and compare to each i know that it is missing tools but still good.

I find that Daz is missing alot on potential and it seem maybe that one day Bryce, Hex, Carrara will have disappear completly and Daz will have only the Studio.

But that is me.

Uhhh.. HOT thred...

If they would sell this projcet, they shold sell the programmers too, or there will be no progress for more than two years because the staff has to get into the code.

Also: DAZinc would take away ALL DS related stuff: Content Manager, Genesis and Genesis 2 Support, Autofit, DS shader support (that's still beyond any discussions these days, will say: BAD), DUF support.

In the end, the new owner will get Ray Dream 1.0 ;-)