The title of a recent thread, "We need to insure Bryce Survives", got me thinking. Many of us (myself included) profess our loyalty to Bryce and we are saddened by its demise. We wish we could do something to resurrect it--make it better than ever--see our dreams for it fulfilled. Bryce was my weapon of choice for many years, and I would love to see it come back as a major force in 3D rendering.

You've all read the subject line and clicked on the link, so many you already have an idea of where I'm about to go. I don't know if anyone has already proposed this idea, but I'm wondering if we could indeed ensure Bryce's resurrection/survival by convincing DAZ to try funding Bryce 8's development via a Kickstarter campaign (or other crowdfunding platform).

Assuming you know what "crowdfunding" is, just think about it. There's virtually no up front cost to Daz. They would evaluate the program's development costs and set that as the funding goal. If the project is funded they're good to go--the money is instantly available to them. If it doesn't make it...well, that would be on US. The Bryce loyalists. The "we" in that "We Need To...".  You gotta fight for your right to Bryce (8). Look at that, Daz--a free campaign slogan. LOL

One of the keys to a successful crowdfunding campaign is getting the word out. Daz already has a promotional mechanism in place--they send out email newsletters all the time. But we would also have to help. Not only by making a pledge, but by taking to blogs, facebook, and whatever else it takes to get the campaign on the public's radar--and not just doing it once, but constantly until the campaign is over and hopefully successful.

I mentioned Kickstarter right away, but I have to assume everyone reading this is not familiar with the concept. So, let me back up a bit...

Kickstarter.com is a crowdfunding website. People have an idea for a project--a book, a film, a game, an invention, just about whatever--and they use Kickstarter to raise money to fund its development. The public is the "crowd" that does the funding. There are usually multiple pledge levels, starting at $1.00. As the pledge amounts get higher, the project runners offer better and better "rewards". For example, a pledge of $25 might get you a Daz coupon worth X amount per year for three years, so in three years you'd have $50.00 worth of Daz credit. A pledge of $50.00 might get you a digital download of Bryce 8. A $100.00 pledge could get you Bryce 8 in a nice shiny box plus a lifetime Platinum Club membership. These are just some ideas off the top of my head. Daz would have to evaluate potential reward scenarios themselves, but the ones I'm suggesting are economical. A lifetime Platinum Club membership would, I think, make Daz money in the long run. After all, people would still be buying content to use in Bryce 8.

Kickstarter has an all-or-nothing model. If your pledge goal is $750,000 and you're a dollar short when the campaign ends, you get zip (if you reach your goal the money is deposited into your account when the campaign ends). But a website called Indie-go-go allows you to keep whatever you raise. So if Daz decided to use them and only raised half or 75% of the funding, that's still a major contribution to the project's budget.

I'm interested in receiving feedback on this idea. I saw the subject line of a thread and it jump-started my imagination, so it's possible I'm missing something obvious that makes this a ridiculous proposal. But I do know that WE could be the deciding factor if a crowdfunding campaign is launched. 

My apologies for any errors in sentence structure--I flew through this and didn't look back too much for rewrites.

Thanks for reading. And now...thoughts?

Regards,

Mark-Wayne Harris

http://www.facebook.com/MerlinRealm (please visit and give my page some "likes"!)

Certainly an interesting idea, although I have no experience in dealings of this nature.

I would'nt be surprised if Daz stopped Bryce development altogether. It sells for $20 approx (£10). Hardly a money spinner.

Is it really worth it to them? Bryce 7 has not been fixed yet, despite the fact that it crashes all over the place, is not compatible with certain versions of Mac OS, has features that don't actually work, i.e. the Undo button in the Terrain editor, and is 32bit. To make it 64 bit which would be brilliant, would mean re-writing the whole program, which is time and money consuming and may not even be possible because of the way the original Bryce was written.

It's really a fun toy compared to higher end render apps, so are Daz really going to spend any more time on it?

I hope they do as it's beauty lies in it's simplicity compared to some 3D programs, and it is capable of producing excellent results.

• It is an interesting idea.
• Obviously, Daz would have to approve of the Kickstarter and be fully behind it or they would just shut the kickstarter down.
• A full new version would HAVE to be a new code re-write, with modern code, from the ground up. Otherwise, you would be building your homes' foundation on sand.
• You would need many, many thousands of dollars to do this, you can't have a couple guys sitting in a parents basement trying to code this out for the next 5 years.

AS

@AgentSmith--yes, you inderstand. The crowdfunding campaign would be entirely set up by Daz--and we have to convince them by making our voices heard.

Daz would figure out how much money would be needed to fund development.  Say they come up with $750,000 and estimate a two year development window. If the campaign isn't successful nothing has been lost--it didn't cost anything to set it up. This is truly a case of "nothing beats a try but a failure". It's no harm no foul. But if it's funded, Daz will have the full development money instantly.

So how would we make out voices heard? Anyone have suggestions? And can anyone find a flaw in my idea? Let's discuss!

Should DAZ get on board with a Kickstarter the ship could fly; but given their underwhelming seeming, lack of interest in our Bryce I'm really not holding out. 

Having been to the wake of my first 3D app, Imagine3D, this all starts to have a familiar feel about it.....

For those of you who are not familiar with Kickstarter or crowdfunding, here is an example. LeVar Burton wanted to revive Reading Rainbow. His goal was 1 million. He raised over 5 mil in one month.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/readingrainbow/bring-reading-rainbow-back-for-every-child-everywh?ref=discovery

@bobbystahr, I hear you on Daz's apparent lack of interest, but why is that the case? It's all about business, and I would think Daz doesn't have confidence that a new iteration of Bryce is worth the development cost—and they wouldn't make a return on their investment.

But crowdfunding is a whole different model. Daz would be given the money to develop the program and deliver it to the people who funded it. There's no financial risk for them.

There are more reasons than have been mentioned here which account for the hiatus in upgrading Bryce.

@chohole - can you provide links to the threads that list these reasons? Or suggest keywords that could be used to look them up? I want all issues out in the open so they can be taken into account and discussed.

People often talk about what Bryce can't do or that other programs do it better as reasons for not saving it. But the idea is for Daz to use a crowdfunding platform to raise the money needed to essentially create a new version of Bryce.

There are no limits here (or very few). I'm not thinking in terms of a patch job. This new version could have functionality we haven't even thought of. Free your mind and stop being married to what already exists.

Bear in mind that a Kickstarter project could potentially generate a lot of profit. Daz could walk away with a whole new version of Bryce and thousands of extra dollars--without an initial investment. Check out the link I posted above for the Reading Rainbow Kickstarter. If a Bryce 8 has a visionary mind behind it, it could be a game changer. Never believe that the game can't be changed--find a way to change it.

@chohole, when I wrote, "Free your mind and stop being married to what already exists" it wasn't directed at you personally. I meant "everyone needs to free their mind..." No offense intended.

Does this Mean Bryce will be funded by someone else?

I started We Need to insure that Bryce Survives thread a while ago and am only just learning how to use Python and will need to learn an awful lot more to bring it out but if someone else has come up with an idea they may be better suited(Not that I am going to give up on it I still will be learning to write 3d Programs) So if there is anything I can offer to help insure Bryce Survives I will surrender all my work so people can sell it to insure Bryce Survives and I can make whatever needed(organics are hard but not impossible unless its obj files. I think the best way to compile a program like Bryce would be to use two powerful Computer Programming Languages Opengl is essential as it helps vastly in making a 3d program and after that I suggest either Python or Java C and C++ is very hard and Malbolge is impossible so I would say Python or Java would be the best Bet.

Regards

Karl

I think the idea is great, but.... I don't think DAZ is the party that can take Bryce further as it is now. I'm looking at Bryce 5 and then 6 and the 7 and all I see is some improvements, but nothing outstanding. Bryce 7 still is using technology that is outdated. If you want Bryce to move into this day and age then you need to find a party that can do that. As long as DAZ is developing, I wouldn't finance it. All DAZ really wants is to push their 3D figures. Just look at Carrara and Bryce... the major updates have been that it works with DAZ3D and the DAZ figures. If that is what DAZ spent money on fine, but that is not what I need and what I want to pay for. DAZ is way to narrow minded to take Bryce a real step further, they do believe that everything revolves around the figures, not understanding the real potential that Bryce, Carrara and even Hexagon do offer.

They first stopped the development of Hexagon, since it's not a figure pusher at all. Next was Bryce and soon Carrara will die out as well, once the technology moves into DAZ3D. Bryce as is, even Bryce 7 is hopelessly outdated and needs a major overhaul in about every department and I don't see DAZ doing that. If they could, they would have done it by now.

If Daz, in fact, does not have a vision for Bryce 8--if they're actually INCAPABLE of having a vision for it--that pretty much ends the conversation. I find that hard to believe, if only because so many people have had Bryce wishlists for so many years and their ideas and vision for it have been out there. I started this thread so these types of concerns could be discussed and addressed. At some point, the idea of funding Bryce 8 has to be taken to Daz and they'll decide whether or not to pursue it. But if we start being scared that they'll do it and fail--wow. It's a legitimate concern, but it never once crossed my mind.

Well, you certainly have a big thumbs-up from me for your intentions, as did the author of the other thread you point out, but why on earth would you want DAZ to go ahead with something like this?

Absolutely every long-time Brycer knows that Bryce flourished under Metacreations, but went rapidly downhill since the "Content Biased" company DAZ got their hands on it.  As far as I'm concerned, DAZ have done nothing to that program that would have passed under Metacreatuions rule, it's like they've systematically destroyed the thing both in stability, interface quality, and features.  There were people who worked on Bryce really hard and it always felt like a pleasure to be able speak directly with them, but the problem is DAZ, the company, not the workers, the "DAZ Content thing" is the worst thing that ever happened to Bryce IMHO, so while DAZ have even the slightest bit of influence over it's development - forget it.  You ain't ever getting Bryce back to the level it ought to be while DAZ are in charge of it, that should be obvious.

They've had it for ... how many years now?

The only thing DAZ have done for Bryce is drag out it's lifespan, and for that I suppose I'm grateful, but even so, there's always that feeling that if DAZ hadn't got their hands on it, a better placed company (one that is not interested in "content") might have snapped it up and the program would still rule because of it.  Bryce hasn't evolved into what it should be, not even close, instead it's evolved into a bug-ridden content carrier for DAZ.  It pisses me off everytime I see how Vue has evolved, because back in the day, Vue had the pretty much the same gimmicky, fiddly, crappy interface that it still has today, it wasn't in the same league as Bryce when it came to interface design or usability. Today Vue's interface is still a messy joke, but look how much people are prepared to pay for it.

No, what you should be doing is taking what you like about Bryce and ditching the crap DAZ added to it.  Design something / draw something up and get a Kickstarter to develop your own program, something that is like Bryce but will wipe the floor with it.  Get a designer who thinks "out of the box" and get a coder that understands the designer - or forget it - because that's why Bryce was what it was - the designer understood the coder and the coder understood the designer.

DAZ don't own the right to packages like Bryce, they only own Bryce, not a worldwide patent of landscape packages - so you don't need DAZ for anything.  There is no reason to involve DAZ at all, and that's just as well because DAZ are interested in "content" - and we've all seen what the fetish for "content" has done for Bryce (and Carrara), haven't we?

So yup, a thumbs up to you for the thought, but without wanting to sound rude, grow up and realise that Kickstarting anything for Bryce that involves DAZ, will likely do nothing other than allow them to update it for "Genesis" and not much more.  The code is old now so you'd be better off Kickstarting your own program anyway.  I love Bryce but there's no way I'd support a Kickstarter involving DAZ.  Bryce was a success because it thought outside the box, the interface, the workflow, and as long as you realise that usability is key in a program doing well, you should do equally well if your own program is equally unique and purposeful.

The creators of Bryce knew what they were doing, that's why Bryce was born.
So do the same - know what you are doing!

I do believe Daz has Bryce for about 10 years now. In that 10 years they've managed to release Bryce 5.5.... 6.... 7. Bryce 7 was released over 4 years ago. I do believe that says way more then enough. It's a real shame.

I've always wondered why DAZ never seemed to see all the possibilities open to them with Bryce.  Had they put their mind to it Bryce could have competed with Vue & made them some decent money.  I wish I was rich enough to make DAZ an offer for Bryce that they couldn't refuse so it could be brought up to date.

Now I agree with pumeco. Go with your own program. Tho' I'd like to see the same type interface for it.  I like programs with that clean & simple look that has so much hidden power.

Over the last several years I've read posts by people lamenting Bryce's demise and wishing they could save it. People were making extensive wishlists for the next version of the program. That, and the article that inspired me to start this thread, made me think there was an audience out there that would embrace a new version of Bryce--one that could be everything they wanted it to be (or as close to it as one could reasonably expect, y'know).

Bryce was my weapon of choice for over a decade, but I moved away from it a LONG time ago. But I still have a bit of nostalgia about it--or, rather, I did until I read these comments. No, I don't want to be the one to create my own "Bryce-like" program. My interest doesn't go that deep. I just thought I'd come up with a fundraising method that would cause Daz to rethink Bryce because the development wouldn't cost them any money and thus wouldn't pose a financial risk to the company. Daz, then, wouldn't look at Bryce as something purely to sell their content--it could be that and much, much more. It could have been a game changer (that the public paid for).

Anyway, I'm out of this conversation. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Every comment is greatly appreciated. Have a great day! (Oh, and please check out my latest work on facebook.com/MerlinRealm--"likes" and friend requests welcome!!!)

**JackStr8  ..  Did Craig Russell do any of the drawings (or inking) for the original Merlin Realm?  It looks a lot like his style.  I think he has worked with Mark Wayne Harris on other things.   ** **
**

Never mind.. 

Ravyns   LOL  Why never mind? I don't know if you'll ever read this, but...  No, I didn't get a chance to work with P. Craig Russell, but it was a timing issue. When my editor asked me who I'd like to see illustrate the MerlinRealm story I initially declined to name a particular artist, thinking I'd never get him. But the editor said it didn't matter if the artist wasn't available--he just wanted to know what art style I was envisioning for the story. I did, in fact, request P. Craig Russell, but he wasn't available because he had starting working on Elric for the same publisher--Pacific Comics. The editor found an artist with a similar style and storytelling sense.

I'm reprinting the original MerlinRealm stories via Kickstarter on February 1st. I'd love to have Mr. Russell contribute something to it, even if it's just a pinup. Project announcements will be available on facebook.com/MerlinRealm.

Regards,

Mark-Wayne Harris

The nevermind had to do with following a link to another facebook page where Craig is a friend.  He is from the town I live in & is friends with my brother in law.   I once worked up the nerve to let him see a couple drawings I did.  I must have been out of my head.. LOL ..

Love the work on the MerlinRealms. 

@ Ravyns  -  Thank you! Much appreciated.

 I will truly miss Bryce as it is so empowering. For one thing It lets us create virtually any texture quickly and easily and apply it in so many different spaces and sizes and so on and so on. You could quite possibly spend a lifetime in the DTE and materials lab clicking on the randomize buttons creating texture after texture. Lots of power here going to waste if its not being developed further. I don't know the guys and gals that created the orginal project, but I know they were awesome brains. Bryce was kinda like Rock and Roll. It was a great ride! My next upgraded computer will be sorely lacking without Bryce... but...Myself I will do my best to keep a machine around running my Bryce until the last mac capable of 10.6.8  crashes! I love Rock N Roll!

Is this an emotional post, you bet your stars it is... but it is just software in the end. Now where did I place those Poser diskettes that led me to Bryce?