They do have a development team in Portugal. The only reasonable way to generate income out of this is to bring out a new version.

SM has always been very silent before any upgrade. I guess we will see an upgrade this year.

drafter69 posted at 8:27PM Tue, 02 October 2018 - #4336904

While I prefer Daz3D Studio I do not want to see Smith Micro (Poser) end since that will allow the Daz Company to do whatever they want. I worry a bit that SM has been very silent for quite a while.

They have been writing Poser off for dead for 20 years now. Poser has out lived Softimage The first comercail king of CGI software. but for DAZ ,Poser doesn't matter DAZ still has to deal with all the 3D softwares.DAZ biggest threats are realution and Blender.

Bringing up what Autodesk did to Softimage3D may be considered sacrilegious and a definite no no in some places. ??? lol

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 12:47PM Wed, 03 October 2018 - #4337015

Bringing up what Autodesk did to Softimage3D may be considered sacrilegious and a definite no no in some places. ??? lol

Well first I'm sacrilegious. and now I'm going to sound like a lawyer. I'm earning my flight miles strait to hell ;)

the facts : 1998 Blender ,Lightwave ,Softimage. All hot key driven hard to use UI's. Blender is nothing no one uses,Softimage is king. Lightwave ,Softimage never attemp to change.

2018 Blender is growing stronger.

That's not fair, the only one from those dates that was actually "hard to use hotkey driven UI's" would have been blender,the other 2 weren't "that bad" not that simple, but not like the old default start up UI of Blender with that default top down look on start up took me a day or 2 to figure out that was a cube..lol I thought it was a 2D square for 2 days. Anything seems difficult at first.

Oh I absolutely hated the old Blender 2.4x UI, and was absolutely thrilled the first time I saw version 2.5x, which is pretty close to what the Blender UI looks like today. Now we'll have to see how the new 2.8 UI is going to look. Supposedly they're making it easier for folks who, up until now, have not delved into Blender because they found the current UI too hard to deal with. I, personally, hope they will still have the option to have the UI I'm used to, but if the easier UI brings more folks around to working with Blender,then that's a good thing.

Oh, and Blender is STILL hotkey driven, which I happen to prefer.

You can play around with the alpha or beta or ??? Whatever it is at the moment of the 2.8 ,I played around in it for a bit but I couldn't pull out new windows (don't know if it was because it was an early version or they removed that feature) It is more "new user friendly" though.I may switch full time to it also when their done.Oh and some key combos I tried didn't work but hopefully that's because it was a preview version a while back when Lobo first told me about 2.8

From what I've heard from others, a number of the key combos have been changed, so it's probably going to take a while to get used to the new ones, UNLESS we'll still have the option of changing them, as we do now in the 2.7x versions.

I'm planning on keeping 2.79 handy in any case, because even though I'm looking forward to EEVEE, I usually don't do final renders in Blender, so I prefer having the old Blender Render engine available when I'm only rendering to see how my model is progressing.

I've herd of fair ,Think it's a myth like fairies n dragons. I'm all for realtime render engines but to remember a 100 hotkeys ,a bit much to remember for us old senial dinasours ;)

Nobody says you have to remember them all, only those you use most often.

I have hot keys I use a lot wrote down in note pad. but only if I half to use a hotkey. but if I use only 20 hot keys in each app C4D,zBrush,PhotoShop,Blennder,Unity ect ect + supporting plugs n apps that's a lot of hot keys to keep up with + ya half to remember which app that hot keys for. It's aggravating That's why hot keys n difficult UI app's are not as successful as easy UI's. besides if there UI is difficult the craters of that app just seems lazy n don't care about us .seems there just here to make a fast n cheep dollar off of us at are experience. If they don't care about us then why should we care about them.

Blender seems to care about the users .they seem to try and give us what we actually need .it's why Blender is growing.

I'm looking forward to EEVEE,

If you have used anything with PBR before ,such as Marmoset Toolbag (and all the rest after),then its nothing you have never seen before, it just has a cute Pokemon name to it.and good for Real time product Visualization not really final renders or rending your scenes as artist do.but you could I suppose if you wanted to.But anyway enough about that,maybe something like that inside of Poser (along with 62 other changes,fixes and tweaks) would be cool.

I haven't used Marmoset, or any other kind of PBR before, so it's going to be new to me, which is why I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do. Cycles, and Poser's SuperFly, render engines were new and exciting (well not until I learned how to use them properly), so I want to play in EEVEE to see what it can do.

Oh then yeah you'll like it then, sorry for some reason I thought you used PBR before in other products (or similar type viewports.) Its good though. I would luv to see something similar in Poser's default viewport (that uses little to no memory ) Couldnt they put that in just like they did Cycles?

sketchfab.com is using a real time render engine. realtime meshes look a lot better with all the killer maps on them. allegorithmic.com can be education about all the maps.

can PC's with out 3D cards use realtime render engines ?do they look as good ?

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 12:11AM Sat, 06 October 2018 - #4337145

Oh then yeah you'll like it then, sorry for some reason I thought you used PBR before in other products (or similar type viewports.) Its good though. I would luv to see something similar in Poser's default viewport (that uses little to no memory ) Couldnt they put that in just like they did Cycles?

No, I've never found the expense for real-time render engines such as Octane, and the like, something I could justify.

As far as Poser having it as part of the system would definitely be nice, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Just about every one has realtime engines now so they can't be very difficult to make

Oh no Miss B ,youll see when it's released ,it's nothing like octane or cycles or iray or those render/rendering engines programs all of those you could do the "same" thing as in set them to the main viewport IF you have a good card and lots of ram/memory/cuda cores if not it will be grainy before it clears up and then laggy if your system is not "strong enough" every time you move anything .it's not even something that's purchased it's a viewport feature which comes with some programs from some modeling programs to others like Substance Painter.more like a games realtime rendering engine/view (lol ? I'm pretty sure that was not a good description) On the blender source page you can download the latest 2.8 just to check it out it's a zip file not an exe install file so you do not even need to install it to your system just un zip it ?,
. And no RorrKoon I tried earlier on a system with only Intel graphics and it didn't work.but neither does cycles. none cuda cards..AMD, don't know .

RorrKonn...lol auto correct

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:04PM Sat, 06 October 2018 - #4337205

And no RorrKoon I tried earlier on a system with only Intel graphics and it didn't work.but neither does cycles. none cuda cards..AMD, don't know .

Oh my laptop has an Intel graphics card, and I've done Cycles with it. Not as good results as I get with SuperFly in Poser, but not bad either.

I miss the nVidia card from my old laptop, but I'm definitely planning on making sure my next laptop has one.

Oh crap your right MissB I just loaded the official 2.7 and it worked (cycles) was testing before on the 2.8 alpha ok so that means ....maybe the Eevee may work on the final official 2.8 ,That would be good cause then I can bring this tablet with me on the go and use it .

Blender on a tablet. Hmmmmm, now THAT's an interesting thought.

Does the link to Abyss Balrogs with a Intel graphics card

https://sketchfab.com/models/5638461798ee4c85abf9f40d04d505bb?ref=related

look as good as this jpg ?

no worries TheDarkerSideOfArt . The things I've said cause of auto correct, LOL

I guess it would.I really cant say for sure yes or no because I didn't set up or use anything while "looking" at Eevee I just loaded it up,seen it and was more interested in how they changed Blender itself (the UI..the shortcut keys.the modeling tools) But I suppose it could or will all depending on the person creating the item and not Eevee. there all (to me anyway) pretty much the same,you know just like I might use Maxwell render and end up with a shitty render,doesn't mean Maxwell isn't any good or not as good as ??? it most likely only means that I don't know how to get the most out of rendering in Maxwell...just like almost anything in 3D art.

TheDarkerSideOfArt : I understand what your saying .some meshes on sketchfab look killer others just look dead.

This is what I was thinking .If Abyss Balrogs looks as good with just a Intel graphics card.Then sketchfab isn't depending on 3D cards like most realtime engines.

and if that's the case then Poser alt to use sketchfab realtime engine

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 6:46PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337129

I'm looking forward to EEVEE,

If you have used anything with PBR before ,such as Marmoset Toolbag (and all the rest after),then its nothing you have never seen before, it just has a cute Pokemon name to it.and good for Real time product Visualization not really final renders or rending your scenes as artist do.but you could I suppose if you wanted to.But anyway enough about that,maybe something like that inside of Poser (along with 62 other changes,fixes and tweaks) would be cool.

Wow, you and I must have very different interests. Or those are just some sour grapes that we don't a PBR viewport already. I'm not specifically interested in making animations, but I am long over waiting hours/days for a single image to render. Saying that Eevee isn't good enough for final renders presumes everyone is striving for photorealistic 4k+ images. Aside from caustics, maybe SSS, a few other specific things, Eevee and PBR should be generally good enough for final output at video resolutions. (In a few years we'll likely be up-sizing with AI anyway...) For what you do you may be entirely correct, but IMHO Cycles was kind of a bad move and Poser would have benefited more from a PBR viewport that closely approximated Firefly's while using the same shaders. After fighting with Firefly for years I'm not learning another material system without the benefit of near realtime output. I may have to learn Cycles if I make the jump to blender, but the last thing I thought Poser needed was a 3rd generation of materials.

RorrKonn posted at 6:56PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337164

sketchfab.com is using a real time render engine. realtime meshes look a lot better with all the killer maps on them. allegorithmic.com can be education about all the maps.

can PC's with out 3D cards use realtime render engines ?do they look as good ?

There are motherboards with GPUs from both nVidia and AMD, and the output should look the same as what you'd get from a GPU on a card (though framerates will generally be lower). Without a GPU you could still have realtime 3D, just without modern shaders and lighting. Think 90's 3D but with more polygons.

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:04PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337145

Oh then yeah you'll like it then, sorry for some reason I thought you used PBR before in other products (or similar type viewports.) Its good though. I would luv to see something similar in Poser's default viewport (that uses little to no memory ) Couldnt they put that in just like they did Cycles?

First they'd have to choose one. Cycles was developed under a different license than the rest of Blender as it was expected to be used by other programs. So I suppose as far as 3rd party unbiased, physically based renderers go it was a pretty logical choice. I just don't know offhand of any stand alone real-time engines that would be as cheap to integrate. Going back to Cycles, it would have been great if they'd gotten BB on board and actually tried to make it work with the existing Firefly materials (and better with the viewport itself). I suppose adapting materials from a biased, non physically based renderer to one that is unbiased and physically based is no small challenge. At least with two different physically based renderers both systems conserve (light) energy. Anyway, now that Cycles is in it would make more sense to use those materials with the realtime renderer. Otherwise it would necessitate a 4th type of Poser materials.

RorrKonn posted at 7:18PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337250

TheDarkerSideOfArt : I understand what your saying .some meshes on sketchfab look killer others just look dead.

This is what I was thinking .If Abyss Balrogs looks as good with just a Intel graphics card.Then sketchfab isn't depending on 3D cards like most realtime engines.

and if that's the case then Poser alt to use sketchfab realtime engine

Once you are at DX10/11 there shouldn't really be any visual differences. Intel's GPUs get their bad reputation for under-performing in gaming. Not saying that Sketchfab models can't be highly complex, but most have far fewer polygons than users typically expect their modern games to throw around at a solid frame rate.

Mr Gilliland (Smith Micro Poser Team US) has a new post on the Smith Micro forum that will have information on Poser 11.1 development and information on future updates. Subscribe to (watch) the post for updates. Hope it helps.

https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/9143/poser-devlog

moogal posted at 9:05PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337309 Wow, you and I must have very different interests

Yup we do, I come from a extremely competitive 3D modeling art world,were every little detail, shadow ,texture, uniqueness and the creativity of your end image/item/product (even which modeling program was used to create it) is scrutinized to the full extent of the powers that be with violators being shun to the darkest side of the web. or at least put on time out for an 1hr or so...

Sour grapes? because we dont have a realtime preview in Poser ? well actually we do but its tiny and pisses me off everytime I move the model and hit refresh and then the damn green lines show up and....hmm Anyway didn't say its not good at all but lets be honest you want a final render use Cycles or Firefly IF you cant use those for whatever reason then yes by all means use your ui's real time render image,has nothing to do with 4K hires...whatever...and its not even in Poser at all and most likely never will be so I don't know why you're even on debate mode ? Since I didn't ask about Cycles (other than cant they get Eevee for poser like cycles) Im just going to ignore all that other cycles stuff you went on.

adzan posted at 9:41PM Mon, 08 October 2018 - #4337317

Mr Gilliland (Smith Micro Poser Team US) has a new post on the Smith Micro forum that will have information on Poser 11.1 development and information on future updates. Subscribe to (watch) the post for updates. Hope it helps.

https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/9143/poser-devlog

does it included Eevee ?? lol

To answer the OP's question... no, it's not dead. See Captain von Gilliland's post on the Official Poser Forum.

But Poser is so far behind all the competition that it might as well be dead. There is no way in hell Poser can catch up with Rallusion, DZ, or anyone else at this point. Even bloody Blender. Not without a seismic shift in how Smith Micro sees Poser. Not without a massive injection of money for development. That won't happen. SM neglected taking Poser from really good to outstanding for years. They were more concerned with bloody face posing chips and Pauline than noticing that Reallusion was quietly taking over their animation and figure design market.

The last Poser dev team was stuck with the idea they had to cater to the existing user base and their longtime pals - you know the ones always screaming and fighting on the Official forum (and here, cough) - instead of paying attention to what the competition was doing and trying to outdo the competition. And Poser is but a tiny little slice of what Smith Micro actually does. If Poser was a huge deal to Smith Micro they would actually spend some budget on promoting it. They never did. Poser's gallery? The one place that Smith Micro could show off - FOR FREE - what Poser can do? It's buried three links deep. It's not out front where everyone can see it. Obviously they don't care.

At this point it's too little too late. Poser is an also-ran and it's Smith Micro's own fault. Sure it'll always have its fans and despite what you now believe I'm actually one of them. I'll use the software until it's done. But it's been three whole years since Poser's last full release. And they've only just now decided to keep users in the loop regarding development? Wow. Way too little way too late. It is a very real demonstration of how Smith Micro and the Poser development team work. "Oh we should have done this three (five, eight) years ago? OK let's start it next week."

I know I'm gonna get flamed all to hell and back and I know that the knowitalls will come out in force to correct me...but whatever. The truth hurts. It actually sucks.

Unless Poser is totally reinvented in a way that overtakes the competition, it is really done. It won't attract new users. It will just have us loyal longtime users clinging to it till it slips quietly beneath the waves. Poser is Jack in Titanic. No room on the door. Sayonara, Jack.

The state of Poser and the future of Poser makes me incredibly sad, I used Poser from v. 6 to 11 - but it died a slow death by misdirection and neglect.

It's just too late to fix it.

Ya I think the games are looking better then anything else. Real time render engines is all I care to use. A lot of app's support allegorithmic even DAZ. Would be really cool if Poser got allegorithmic.com

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 4:07PM Tue, 09 October 2018 - #4337323

Sour grapes? because we dont have a realtime preview in Poser ? well actually we do but its tiny and pisses me off everytime I move the model and hit refresh and then the damn green lines show up and....hmm Anyway didn't say its not good at all but lets be honest you want a final render use Cycles or Firefly IF you cant use those for whatever reason then yes by all means use your ui's real time render image,has nothing to do with 4K hires...whatever...and its not even in Poser at all and most likely never will be so I don't know why you're even on debate mode ?

I can't tell if you mean(t) that Poser's preview isn't good enough for final renders (it obviously is not), or that a PBR renderer (like Marmoset/Eevee) isn't good enough for final output. IMHO, unless you really need things like caustics and accurate reflection/refraction, it is good enough for final output if you are doing animation. That was why I asked what you did. Poser has, with every new version, seemed less like an animation program and more like a program for creating still images. No one besides RoosterTeeth has used Poser for anything substantial in as long as I can recall, and they were only able to do so by opting for a simplified anime style. If Poser did have a viewport equivalent to Marmoset, I assume that most animators would use that over Firefly/Cycles, and the people doing stills would continue using Cycles or a 3rd party renderer. I just felt that the statement "PBR is not good enough for final renders' is not just subjective but dependent on the nature of the project.

moogal posted at 3:56PM Tue, 09 October 2018 - #4337356

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 4:07PM Tue, 09 October 2018 - #4337323

Sour grapes? because we dont have a realtime preview in Poser ? well actually we do but its tiny and pisses me off everytime I move the model and hit refresh and then the damn green lines show up and....hmm Anyway didn't say its not good at all but lets be honest you want a final render use Cycles or Firefly IF you cant use those for whatever reason then yes by all means use your ui's real time render image,has nothing to do with 4K hires...whatever...and its not even in Poser at all and most likely never will be so I don't know why you're even on debate mode ?

I can't tell if you mean(t) that Poser's preview isn't good enough for final renders (it obviously is not), or that a PBR renderer (like Marmoset/Eevee) isn't good enough for final output. IMHO, unless you really need things like caustics and accurate reflection/refraction, it is good enough for final output if you are doing animation. That was why I asked what you did. Poser has, with every new version, seemed less like an animation program and more like a program for creating still images. No one besides RoosterTeeth has used Poser for anything substantial in as long as I can recall, and they were only able to do so by opting for a simplified anime style. If Poser did have a viewport equivalent to Marmoset, I assume that most animators would use that over Firefly/Cycles, and the people doing stills would continue using Cycles or a 3rd party renderer. I just felt that the statement "PBR is not good enough for final renders' is not just subjective but dependent on the nature of the project.

Of course, but that response was written in regards to rendering images, not everything it's good for or not good for .I fully agree that for animation I would definitely use it over waiting days to render each frame with a traditional render engine because I'm not that patient.Thats why I said I would love to have that inside of Poser (Eevee) But for rendering an image it all depends on what you feel is "good enough" if you don't need the things you mentioned,then sure go for it. Oh man I love everything art related ..really, from canvas to paper from modeling to animation to simulations,from posing others figures just to render them to creating my own. Art is Art to me I have no preference.

That was why I asked what you did. Poser has, with every new >version, seemed less like an animation program and more like a >program for creating still images. No one besides RoosterTeeth has >used Poser for anything substantial in as long as I can recall, and >they were only able to do so by opting for a simplified anime style. >If Poser did have a viewport equivalent to Marmoset, I assume that >most animators would use that >over Firefly/Cycles,

Poser does not even have a working IK system (neither does Daz studio for that matter)

The rendering engine is poser is rather moot for animators as the Character animation tools remain hopelessly entombed in the late 1990's.

That is why I use Iclone pro pipeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjokKZX1r6I

In my earlier Poser times, I've tried to make animations. I just gave up. I am only doing stills now. I just don't want to wait for a movie clip to be finished, when each frame takes at least one hour to render.

That was why I asked what you did

Oh sorry I didnt answer that ..still

I do not animate inside of poser (I have but thats not what I use Poser for) I animated inside of Houdini...depends on what it is.(after modeling the scene involved in the animation,inside of Houdini or Maya and Zbrush) then export out to Maya (depending if there was/is simulations involved if not then everything will be done in Maya and motion builder ( and MB IF it has nothing to do with a poser or Daz product Im creating) then export as a FBX into Maya tweak things then hit Renderman in there. I also model My figures for these 2 posing programs in Maya or Zbrush (mostly Zbrush lately though) and use these 2 programs(Poser Studio) to get them ready for each program and render the promos in each programs render engine. ALSO I create the mock ups of New upcoming Mods for this company (vape related shit). and thats mostly 99% done in Blender and rendered in Keyshot.

So the answer to your question to me isn't that simple.

wolf359 posted at 5:19PM Wed, 10 October 2018 - #4337408

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjokKZX1r6I

How long did that take my, minus all the setting up ,just the rendering ?

Hi, that was four and a half minute clip of a feature length animated film that is now 58 minutes long I have a self imposed "Frame budget" of 7 minutes per frame while mainting a certain quality target.

I dont recall any of those shots going "over budget" so doing the rough math ,The clip you saw was about five weeks of actual frame rendering in Maxon Cinema4D total Minus animation creation in Iclone pro /Daz and post production ,compositing& VFX with Adobe after effects.

Here is the Follow up to the events of the clip you just watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_48wCRqC_eQ&feature=youtu.be

Nice,so you say it is now 58 minutes long, so this is an ongoing series ? .thanks for the answer.I dont want to continue to take away from what this thread was about so I'll ask you offline about something else.

Shhh. Don't get discouraged,. There will be some fresh life brought into the world of Poser soon. Specifically.

No questions while I mop up from the leak.,.

Canceling message preview clears the message? That's handy to know.

dreamcutter posted at 12:23AM Fri, 12 October 2018 - #4337480

Shhh. Don't get discouraged,. There will be some fresh life brought into the world of Poser soon. Specifically.

No questions while I mop up from the leak.,.

Makes me very happy. I love Poser. Thank you.

gideonnoone posted at 1:14AM Fri, 12 October 2018 - #4337329

To answer the OP's question... no, it's not dead. See Captain von Gilliland's post on the Official Poser Forum.

But Poser is so far behind all the competition that it might as well be dead. There is no way in hell Poser can catch up with Rallusion, DZ, or anyone else at this point. Even bloody Blender. Not without a seismic shift in how Smith Micro sees Poser. Not without a massive injection of money for development. That won't happen. SM neglected taking Poser from really good to outstanding for years. They were more concerned with bloody face posing chips and Pauline than noticing that Reallusion was quietly taking over their animation and figure design market.

I don't know how you can compete Poser with a full-fledged program like Blender with a straight face. Blender is much more than Poser is supposed to be, just the user interface blocks a lot of people. Hey, why not comparing stuff to Maya while you on it?

I've never done animations with Poser, probably Reallusion is better for that. DAZ obviously is better at playing with DAZ stuff. So what? Has everybody now to use IRAY?

There need to be fixes for rigging, which probably will be in the next version if I understand Ero right. I would like to see Superfly updated to what Cycles delivers today, which is likely to happen. If it's just that, I'm sold. Reallusion does not have a serious renderer, as far as I know, DAZ has more content for those who don't make their own or don't have enough. But guess what - there is still a lot of good stuff which works in Poser.

The last Poser dev team was stuck with the idea they had to cater to the existing user base and their longtime pals - you know the ones always screaming and fighting on the Official forum (and here, cough) - instead of paying attention to what the competition was doing and trying to outdo the competition. And Poser is but a tiny little slice of what Smith Micro actually does. If Poser was a huge deal to Smith Micro they would actually spend some budget on promoting it. They never did. Poser's gallery? The one place that Smith Micro could show off - FOR FREE - what Poser can do? It's buried three links deep. It's not out front where everyone can see it. Obviously they don't care.

Well, they assigned a development team to it. Maybe they will shout when they have a new version. We will see.

At this point it's too little too late. Poser is an also-ran and it's Smith Micro's own fault. Sure it'll always have its fans and despite what you now believe I'm actually one of them. I'll use the software until it's done. But it's been three whole years since Poser's last full release. And they've only just now decided to keep users in the loop regarding development? Wow. Way too little way too late. It is a very real demonstration of how Smith Micro and the Poser development team work. "Oh we should have done this three (five, eight) years ago? OK let's start it next week."

What's missing, native support for Genesis? Poser has usable tools for most cases either build-in or as a plugin.

I know I'm gonna get flamed all to hell and back and I know that the knowitalls will come out in force to correct me...but whatever. The truth hurts. It actually sucks.

Unless Poser is totally reinvented in a way that overtakes the competition, it is really done. It won't attract new users. It will just have us loyal longtime users clinging to it till it slips quietly beneath the waves. Poser is Jack in Titanic. No room on the door. Sayonara, Jack.

The state of Poser and the future of Poser makes me incredibly sad, I used Poser from v. 6 to 11 - but it died a slow death by misdirection and neglect.

It's just too late to fix it.

No idea, time will tell. If you need an engine to render Genesis, use Studio. I like the way I can work with shaders in Superfly and I even like the options I have in Firefly, for non-realistic renders.

Poser won't be the giant on the market, though. I use it with ZBrush, which do cost a lot more, but works great for me. Sorry that you did not find what you expected in the last couple of years, but for me, it's far from being dead.

Well, I just hope the old versions I've got (2014 Pro and 2016 Pro) keep running on Apple's new OS systems as they are developed. It's sad, but I'm afraid that what bantha writes above is so.

If you want to be cool, use an Apple

If you need a tool, use a Nvidea/Intel PC.

I played with one at the Apple store,A tube shaped Mac Pro it did look "cool" seen the price wondered...why? walked out. and that's the end of my story.