I have been a Bryce user for about two years. About a week ago, I ran across A Vue ad and took a look. Was impressed with the images being created and have since downloaded the demo. First off, the terrain editor is wonderful! Much easier than Bryce because you can actually see the results. Bryce's editor forces you to guess because it lacks a rendered view. I like the atmosphere system as well. Great looking skies! I was also impressed with the vegetation feature. Bryce 4 has none. Bryce 5 does, but when I tried their demo, I was not particularly impressed............again a steep learning curve to figure out how to "make it work". The interface is significantly different than Bryce. Consequently I had the most difficulty figuring out how to move, pull, push rotate and adjustlocation of objects. I don't do trackball and in Bryce use the editing tools and the keyboard to do these functions. I finally figured out how to do them in the view windows, but it doesn't seem quite as precise as the Bryce editing tools. The only other issue I found was when I imported objects. Since the ones in Vue are not provided with the demo, I used a couple of .3ds objects to see what would happen. It loaded them, but was terribly slow and very difficult to move the objects. Sunday night I tried loading some .vob files and .mat files that I found on the net (created by other Vue users). The application instantly crashed and/or locked up. Is this and the slow handling of the .3ds models, attributed to the fact that I'm using a "demo" or is this behavior I will experience if I spend close to $200 on the full version of the software? This is not related to the openGL since I tried with it on and with it off........same result. Again I have a PIII 500 with 256 Ram. Am using an ATI Raedon 64 DDR card. Would appreciate any feedback you can provide on this later issue. Have also sent an email to Vue on the subject. Sandy

Hi Sandy, and welcome. :) As for the slowness of the 3ds objects when moving them, check under File>Options. at the upper right there are two sliders which say Instant Draw and Background Draw. I personally set the Instant Draw to about 50% and the background draw to around 80%, and things move fairly quickly. Also, at the right above each viewport, there's a little arrow pointing down. Clicking on that enables yopu to select from various preview modes for each viewport independantly. I use "Wireframe" in all except the main camera view, where I use shaded. The "wireframe" objects will move, and redraw quicker. Then again, if your 3DS files have alot of parts to them (polys don't matter as much as how many objects are involved), that will slow it down a little too. I don't think that the demo is intentionally slowed down at all, though. I will say though that when it comes to moving and redraing things, Bryce 4 is faster than VUe is, slightly. But then again, Rhino is faster than the almighty 3DS Max 4 in this department, too. shrug As for the crashes when importing Vue .VOb's that might have something to do with the demo. I never have a problem, and I'm not aware of anyone who does. Check to see if you have any McAffee or Norton anti-virus running in the background. Vue doesn't like any of that stuff. And of course, bring all your questions to us here! Cheers, Mike

Still using the demo, I never had crash loading any object format (3DS, VOB, OBJ, etc...). So, I don't think that the domo could be involved in your problem...

Attached Link: http://www.the3dscene.com

Hi Sandy, If you are trying to import the VOB files like normal 3DS/OBJ meshes, then that may be the cause of your problem with Vue crashing. VOB and Vue material files, where only really intended to be used from the libraries I suspect (or ones you create), so if you are unable to create libraries with the demo it may well be a demo specific bug. Didn't explain myself too well there, but I hope it helps. Cheers

I think Cheers means that when you're bringing in a VOB object, use Object > Load Object instead of Object > Import Object. Just to be on the safe side. ***I had the most difficulty figuring out how to move, pull, push rotate and adjust location of objects. I don't do trackball and in Bryce use the editing tools and the keyboard to do these functions.*** For me, I love being able to so easily use the mouse for these operations. Being that you're accustomed to using the keyboard for them, it could be awkward. However, you can also use the keyboard in Vue. When you have an object selected, move to the editor window (top right side) and select the Numerics tab in the top middle. Then you can tab along the left and use the keyboard to set position, orientation, etc. :)

"I think Cheers means that when you're bringing in a VOB object, use Object > Load Object instead of Object > Import Object. Just to be on the safe side." Thanks Varian, that is exactly what I meant :) I was trying to answer questions too early in the morning LOL! Cheers

Thanks everyone, for all the help. Mike, I made the adjustments you suggested. Changing the view windows to "wireframe" does help a lot when moving around the models (vob or otherwise). Nothing moves very quickly in the shaded main window :) This is still the one area where Bryce may be a bit more "sturdy" than Vue :) Regarding the Virus scanner: I do use McAfee, but turned it off when I first started using the demo (control-alt-deleted everything that it runs in the background). I had read somewhere that some Virus scanners will not interfere with your software if they knows it belongs there. So today I reloaded McAfee, checked all the scan settings and rebooted. It took a long time to load......like it was taking an inventory of my harddrive. After that I started Vue, with McAfee on the task bar and found that I can now load .vob files :) Go figure! I was loading the .vob files as Varian and Cheers suggested (load vs import). This is very similar to Bryce with the .vob file being comparable to the .obp file. The demo does not provide any useable objects. All that's provided is the preview and a reference to the cd where they are located. There are also some limitations on the size of an image you can save and of course, scenes cannot be saved at all. That was once reason I thought the demo itself might be "balking" at the sight of .vob files :) Thanks Varian for pointing out that little window with what looks like an L-Square at the top. I had overlooked that and it is precisely what I was looking for! The editing tools I'm familiar with are the ones in Bryce 4's "Edit" Menu to "resize", "rotate" and "reposition". I also prefer the mouse tools..........the camera trackball in Bryce is the one I don't care for :) I discovered that you can use the arrow keys in Vue to do some "nudging" and can always type in the coordinates if necessary. I whipped up three images today just using the basic stuff that came with the demo. If you have time, take a look and give me feedback on how to improve. Again, these didn't take much time, so they're not that great. I'm going to try some "imports" later :) http://leoslair.8m.com/vue.htm I have held off purchasing Bryce 5 and am glad I did. Unfortunately, Vue requires the registration card and receipt for Bryce before it will honor the upgrade price. I purchased Bryce at Best Buy about two years ago on a Visa card and registered on-line when Bryce was still owned by MetaCreations. Who knows where any of that stuff is now. So........I will most likely buy Vue anyway :) Regular price is only $30 more than the upgrade price....and probably well worth it :) Sorry for the lengthy response and thanks for all your help.

Glad to hear it worked for you Sandy! And you have learned the first, and most important thing there is to know about Vue d'Esprit, which you need to remember at all times: "Vue Funny Sometime!" ;) I went and had a look at your pictures, and I have to say, you did a pretty good job. I'm surprised at the clarity of the images, because I thought maybe anti-aliasing would be disabled in the demo or something. Good compositions, too. The only advice I would have isn't really advice, but play around with the material editor as much as you can. I can see you've already gotten a taste of what it can do, but look into things such as the altitude-dependant control when using mixed nmaterials...and just generally dig into the thing completely. Vue's material editor is far more intuitive than Bryce's, IMHO. it seems to me that the Bryce people tried to confuse us. :/ Yeah, I have Bryce 4, too, but I never "mastered" it, and the whole setup cause me alot of frustration, particularly where the material editor was concerned.

Thanks Mike........yes and I would add "Computers Funny Sometime"! :) I used the ultra setting to anti-alias. Vue probably couldn't afford to limit the anti-alias feature if they hope to use the demo to sell the software. The anti-alias system operates differently than Bryce. I'm not a technical person, but it looks to anti-alias pixels independently vs. the "pass" approach that Bryce uses....I could be all wet. I know what you mean about the materials editor :) I never mastered Bryces either and spend a lot of time trying to find the perfect material and then tweaking with the scale control. The Vue demo only contains four landscape materials....snow,snowy scrublands, snowy purple stripes and strange layers. Pretty ulgly terrain stuff if you ask me :) So I used the materials that were available for rocks:) The images I did were focusing on three things: vegetation, rivers and ponds/lakes because those three things are a pain in the arse to do in Bryce (at least that's my experience :) I think the Bryce creators were largely technical/programming types whereas I get the feeling that the Vue creators also included artists(based on the feel of the images that can be created) and maybe even some average users :) Thanks for the feedback Mike. Will look into that altitude dependent control. Sandy

Nice work, Sandy, and I hope you're able to get the full-fledged version soon. :)

"I think the Bryce creators were largely technical/programming types whereas I get the feeling that the Vue creators also included artists(based on the feel of the images that can be created) and maybe even some average users :)" Yes, correct, it's actually the original creator of Vue, Nicholas Phelps, who made the Vue 4 image on the website, with the stream and the leopard, and antelopes. I'm really happy you're enjoying it. :)

Oh, that's also the picture you see when Vue 4 is loading. I also might add, that the upgrade from vue 3.1 to Vue 4 contained about 75% of the requests we had made to them through the Yahoo.com Vue e-mail list. They genuinely do listen to waht theeir loyal users want, and occasionally, they even pop in here. I'm fairly sure that most of the messages in this forum are read by them, too. By the way, we have an ongoing wishlist for Vue 5 (somewhere in the archive... Varian?), which I intend to make public again in a few months...the purpose being to submit to them around Spring, 2002.

Thanks for the feedback Varian and Mike :) I will be ordering.....very soon. Am glad to hear that the Vue creators listen and respond. They responded quickly to a couple of emails I sent them and were actually the ones who referred me to this Forum! :) I've been visiting Renderosity for some time.......but as a Bryce user. I've written Bryce twice with questions about Bryce 5........never a response from them. I also know someone in Florida who I collaborate with on some web based projects for a club called CLAW. Don't laugh.....it's a club for people who own cats (the domestic kind). Anyway, we're both Paint Shop Pro users and I turned her on to Bryce. She's had some of the same "learning curve" frustrations with it that I have. Now I can direct her to Vue :) I think she will love it, because she actually is an artist! Thanks again for all your feedback. Sandy

Hey, I'm in Florida, and also a cat afficianado....

Hmmm........well I don't think your female, so you're not the one I was talking about (just kidding!). If you're a cat lover, check out www.claw.org. You'll probably find it a bit "corny" (A lot of old gals with too much time on their hands is about what it amounts to!), but it's good clean fun :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/~vue/

Our ongoing Vue 5 wishlist is linked to the Vue d'Esprit Forum Annex, which can be reached at this link. There's also other info there related to the forum and all the Vue goodies around here. :) I don't have a cat. *grin*