Would one of you kind souls help me understand the relationship, (or lack of) between Photoshop, RAM, and pstemp files. System: P4 1.5 gig, 512 PC800 Rambus, w2k. Im working on a 500meg file that has been very slow going with 512meg of ram. The temp file runs about 2 gig. I run out and get another 512 ram and think Im going to see drastic improvement. I dont see any. But here is the kicker... Photoshop officially will ask for up to 5 times file size in memory. If you dont have it, it goes to the disk with a temp file to make up the difference. I open photoshop with 1gig of ram, NO file, and it puts a 48meg temp file on disk. HUH? Can someone make some sense of this. Thanks in advance. Pinto

Edit - Preferences - Memory & Image Cache Photoshop put the physical memory usage at 50% (of remaining available ram). If you have more than one program open, you should open Photoshop last. If you change this percentage, you will have to restart Photoshop.

yeah add more memory to photo and be sure to have lot's of hard space availeble too.... hehehehehehhehe..... and I'd say try working with smaller sizes and then at final with larger files....

Thanks for the response. No other programs open. 40gigs free space. 75% to Photoshop. No file open. 1Gig ram and it puts a 48meg pstemp file on disk as soon as Photoshop boots. As fas as smaller files, I have no choice. 5'x10' Encad banner that has to be created at 1/3 size at 300 dpi cmyk. If I do this again I'll try fractals. Pinto

Silly question for you ... is your drive partitioned? Or do you have a second drive in place? Adobe technotes will tell you not to place PhotoShop on the same partition or drive as your OS; by placing it seperately in its own partition or own drive, you increase its efficiency. What are your scratch disks set to; and how much RAM have you turned over to PhotoShop? Are you purging any temp files from your PhotoShop Ram or are you leaving it all in place? Last but not least how high have you set the cache levels?

Mugsworth, thank you for your response. One continuous 60 gig drive. Manufacturers dont partition any more? Some time ago I posted my concerns about the warning one receives from Photoshop about running it on the same partition as the os. I got several responses that indicated that PS would not suffer performance problems and that the only real concern is when PS is consuming too much of a temp file and it impedes the os. I have about 40 gigs free so if thats the case it shouldnt be a problem. My tech support recommended NOT to use Partition Magic. My setting are: Cache Levels 4, Available RAM 954625, 75% available to PS. Again, I open PS and before any file is loaded, a 48 meg PS-temp file is set, even with all that available RAM. Ill be the first to admit that Im not very knowledgeable about w2k. Im on sp1. Maybe sp2 would make a difference? But again, tech support does not recommend it unless you have major problems. I think Ill try XP when the bugs are worked out. Thank you for reading my rambling. ANY advice to improve PS performance would be greatly appreciated! Regards Pinto

No prob, I can tell you from personal experiance, PhotoShop on XP is damn fast. OK, so XP had at least 22 megs of updates just after I installed it, but the system seems to work well. SP2 for Win 2K won't help, if you are getting a temp file immediately, you might want to purge your file (EDIT -> Purge) you will lose your undo's and history states, but that is probably what's causing you the hassles. Your rant wasn't bad, I've read much worse. Frustration is a killer. Good luck to you.

Thanks mugsworth, I'll give it a try. Regards, Pinto

Nah, Purge is grayed out. oh well, thanks anyway. Regards, Pinto

You might consider adding another hard drive and devoting that to PhotoShop. I did the same thing with Poser, and everything works great. Personally I can't stand a computer that is built which doesn't allow you to have some control for your own needs. I'd get a computer from another company.

Thanks Ron, but I think today Dell is about as good as it gets for a commerical built unit. I've had several, and I'm pretty happy for the most part. Regards, Pinto

I confess I worked at a call center that had contracts with different computer-related companies. I worked on the MSN Contract, and others worked on the Dell contract. Dell has very high standards for employees that work for them. That means they value their customers very highly. I did some of my own research, beyond the facts that I already knew. I usually assemble my computers myself, from carefully chosen parts (Of course, finances often dictate my choices.) If I were to buy an "off the shelf" computer, I'd buy a Dell. But I wouldn't buy the lower end models they're selling on tv now (4400 series?!) The parts are too "light duty". I'd go for that 8000 series, with faster hard drives, more memory, etc. Ron

Ron, I'm with you. I've always bought the best I could afford. This is an 8100 with pc800 rambus. (For some reason they changed their numbering system and now this is the 8200). I will say that in the last year, what was great tech support, has gone right in the dumper. People with absolutely no experience. I has one try to answer a w2000 os question by logging on to Google and going to Computer Gripes! Regards, Pinto

My only, indirect, exposure to Dell is that many of my co-workers worked for Dell Customer Service. I'd heard stories of how Dell wants only the best to do their Customer Service calls. And Dell doesn't want former Technical Support Engineers working in Customer Service. That's why I didn't get in after the bottom dropped out of my job.. My department was disbanded.

Ron, I think that information is now outdated. My last tech support call was answered by a woman who wouldn't know a hard drive from a submarine! She explained to me that she had to go step by step through each question on her list before she could proceed to the next step. She had absolutely NO prior knowledge about computers. And ultimately she was of no help to me. She might as well have been the night cleaning woman who picked up the phone. (Sounds like something that should have been a Sienfeld episode.) I think cost cutting has taken it's toll in the Tech Support at Dell. Regards, Pinto

Pinto, If you re-read my message, you'll note that I had no knowledge of Dell's Tech Support people. Indeed, to my knowledge, none of my former employer's employees are taking Dell Tech Support calls. That must be a different call center. I provided tech support for MSN, and went out of my way to be sure I had the skills to help my customers. That even included working at home, unpaid, if I felt the need for research, etc. Most of my co-workers on the MSN contract were equally dedicated. Most of them restricted their job-related pursuits to the job. But who can blame them? You might not know that many companies now hire call centers to take their calls. There might be different call centers around the country, and even in other countries. Some call centers might handle tech calls, while others handle customer service calls. Or there might be different divisions within the same call center for each purpose. The situation you described sounded like a "newbie tech." On the other hand I've seen some "official procedures" written up that made little sense. I usually found a way to change things so they made more sense, and served the customer and myself better. Ron (PS, remember that I lost my job when the MSN work died out, and never made the transition to Dell Customer Service. I think I made a better tech than I would customer service anyway.)

Pinto if the "purge" is greyed out, you haven't loaded your file. Open up the image that causes you problems, then use the purge.

mugsworth, That was my point, as I indicated in my initial post, "I open photoshop with 1gig of ram, NO file, and it puts a 48meg temp file on disk." That is what I found so stange. Regards, Pinto

Pinto dude; you need to load the file let it put the temp file on disk, then purge the file, resave it with a different name and hopefully you won't have a problem. By purging the loaded file, you are clearing out all the edits you have made, and the history states its stored. These are automatically included in your file everytime you close it.

mugsworth, I guess Im still not making myself clear, or Im just too dense to understand what you are trying to tell me. (Which is VERY possible, LOL.) In response to your last advice: There is NO offending file. When the Photoshop APPLICATION loads it places a 48 meg file on disk in spite of the available RAM. Photoshop History states are NEVER saved with files when the file is closed. Therefore, there would never be anything to Purge when any file is first opened. Thank you for your kind advice anyway. No need to respond. I think we burned this one to the ground. Regards, Pinto

RAM Use and Available Hard Disk Space in Photoshop Adobe Photoshop manages image data in two ways: first it allocates hard disk space, also known as scratch disk(s), for all image data, then it uses random-access memory (RAM) to cache this data for editing images. The amount of hard disk space that is available to Photoshop determines the maximum amount of RAM (i.e., working space) Photoshop can use. This document will help you understand the relationship between available hard disk space and RAM usage in Photoshop. Because it much faster to access information in RAM than it is to access information on a hard disk, Photoshop processes image information using RAM to decrease the number of times it must read from and write to the hard disk. The more RAM you allocate to Photoshop, the more data Photoshop can cache and process in RAM, and the quicker Photoshop can process an image. Photoshop will only use the amount of RAM equal to or less than its scratch disk space, no matter how much RAM is installed or allocated to it. Therefore, the amount of available hard disk space set for your scratch disk(s) must be equal to or greater than the amount of RAM you want Photoshop to use. For example, if you want Photoshop to use 200 MB of RAM, you'll need at least 200 MB of available hard disk space designated for Photoshop's scratch disk(s). If Photoshop seems to take longer to process images than you expect, you may have less available hard disk space than RAM allocated to Photoshop. This means you may need to free additional space on the hard disk(s) designated as Photoshop's scratch disk(s), or specify one or more additional scratch disk. To ascertain whether you need more hard disk space, first determine the amount of hard disk space available to Photoshop and the amount of RAM allocated to Photoshop. Then, compare these values. To determine Photoshop's RAM and Scratch Disk allocations: 1. In Photoshop choose File > Preferences > Plug-Ins & Scratch Disks. 2. Note the disk(s) listed in the Scratch Disks section. Click Cancel. NOTE: Startup is the disk containing the Windows directory. 3. Choose File > Preferences > Memory & Image Cache. 4. Note the Photoshop RAM value under the Physical Memory Usage area. Click Cancel. 5. From the Desktop, double-click the My Computer icon. 6. Right-click a hard disk noted in step 2 and choose Properties. 7. Note the Free Space value in the second column and it's unit of measurement (e.g., MB or GB). Click Cancel. 8. Repeat steps 6-7 for any remaining hard disks noted in step 2. 9. Add the values from steps 7-8. 10. Complete steps under Converting and Comparing below. Hard disk space is generally measured in megabytes (MB) or gigabytes (GB) while RAM is generally measured in kilobytes (K). To compare your available hard disk space value to Photoshop's RAM allocation value, both values need to be in a common unit of measurement (e.g., MB or GB). Thus, you will need to convert Photoshop's RAM allocation value from K to MB or GB, whichever is the unit of measure used for your available (Mac OS) or free (Windows) hard disk space. Use one of the methods below to convert K into the same unit of measurement as your hard drive. After you have a common unit of measurement, use the instructions under Comparing to subtract the RAM value from the available hard disk space value and analyze the results. Converting from K to MB If you noted MB as the unit of measurement in step 7, divide the value you noted in step 4 by 1,024. This will give you the amount of allocated RAM in MB. You will compare this value to your available hard disk space value (see Comparing). For example, if the value noted in step 4 is 22968K, your equation will look like this: 22968K 1024 = 22.429688 MB indicating you have 22.429688 MB of RAM allocated to Photoshop. Converting from K to GB If you noted GB as the unit of measure in step 7, divide the value you noted in step 4 by 1,048,576. This will give you the amount of allocated RAM in GB. You will compare this value to your available hard disk space value (see Comparing). For example, if the value noted in step 4 is 22968 KB, your equation will look like this: 22968K 1048576 = 0.021903991GB indicating you have 0.021903991GB of RAM allocated to Photoshop. After you convert your allocated RAM value to the same unit of measure as your hard disk, subtract the RAM value from the hard disk space value (determined in step 9 above) and analyze the results. For example: If the value determined in step 9 is 50 MB, and your converted, allocated RAM is value is 22.429688 MB, your equation will look like this: 50 MB - 22.429688 MB = 27.570312 MB If the value determined in step 9 is 5 GB, and your converted, allocated RAM is value is 0.021903991GB, your equation will look like this: 5 GB - 0.021903991 GB = 4.978096 GB If the difference is zero or greater (i.e., a positive number), you have the same amount of or more available hard disk space than RAM allocated to Photoshop and Photoshop is able to use all the RAM allocated to it. If the difference is less than zero (i.e., a negative number), you have less available hard disk space than RAM allocated to Photoshop and Photoshop is unable to use all the RAM allocated to it. To enable Photoshop to use all its allocated RAM, you need to free additional space on the hard disk(s) specified as Photoshop's scratch disk(s), or specify one or more additional scratch disk(s) in Photoshop. In simple terms, placing a temp file on the disk when loading means that the available RAM PhotoShop is set to use; is simply not there.

mugsworth, All this information might provide some usefulness if the issue was about the RAM requirement to process a particular image size. But the following issue remains unsolved. Available RAM = 954625 Used by Photoshop = 75% Photoshop RAM (available to photoshop) = 715968 Disk space (cache) available to Photoshop = 38200000 (The k to mg conversion you reference creates a differential so minimal it need not be considered.) Size of image requiring RAM or disk cache to process = 0 Size of Photoshop pstemp file = 48960 Your last comment, "In simple terms, placing a temp file on the disk when loading means that the available RAM PhotoShop is set to use; is simply not there". Obviously this rule is contrary to how the program actually behaves. I think the ultimate answer to this is that it is simply a quirk of Photoshop. Thanks for all your kind efforts and advice. Pinto P.S. What is your available RAM and how big is your pstemp file when Photoshop loads?

I tried. My system is a dual processor P4 2.2's loaded with 1536 megs of RAM. This machine contains a 15 gig drive for the OS, and 4 SCSI 60 gig drives for everything else. I also at times have had to use a RAID array for some video capture which can also be connected for use with PhotoShop or any other app. I am heavily into graphics and teach multimedia design at the college level and have been using PS since it was known as PhotoStyler from Aldus. (The reason for my "baby".) I have to admit this little quirk you have mentioned has me wondering, and thinking. So for that reason I sent a message to a friend at Adobe asking about this. Now I'm curious!

mugsworth, Boy does that take me back! I started with Photostyler too. And a vector program named GEM something or other, and Ventura Publisher. You didn't say how big your pstemp was when Photoshop loaded. Regards, Pinto

In 1990, I had a Hyundai (spelling) XT clone with a 5.25" floppy drive, 20MB (megabytes, not gigabytes) hard drive, and a 10MB memory card (it cost $1,000 at the time). My main program was Ventura Publisher Professional.

Boy, am I glad I started with an Amiga and DeluxePaint :-) Hm. "1536 megs of RAM"? I hope you are not running Win 9X/ME those OS won't like anything higher then 512Mb RAM, but judging by your use of a dual pentium processor I'd say you operate a Win NT/2K/XP system. Only those os'es make good use of dual processing with an Intel processor and can handle the extra RAM. Load your top-heavy picture. Open your "window" menu in PS, make shure the third word from below (if you have one image opened) says something like "hide Status bar" or something (I'm on a Dutch version of PS so I can't be shure) Underneath your screen on the left you see your zoom percentage, then a few words or numbers and last an arrowhead. click on it and choose "Efficiency". Notice the number that is right of the arrowhead. This displays the percentage of time in operation versus reading or writing scratch disk info. The lower the number, the longer PS is taking reading/writing to the scratch disk (good is 100%). This number changed drastically after upgrading from Win ME to Win XP pro, doubling my RAM to 1024Mb and installing a RAID controller with 2 60 Gb IBM Ultra ATA 100 7200 rpm harddisks functioning as a RAID 0 (striping) array, when working with large files (and assigning it to PS, ofcourse)