"The bottom line is... this is a Private forum run by whoever the hell runs it. (Never cared enough to find out.) They have a right to change of fix any vote they set up. We are all just visitors here... and we all have the right to Get the Fvck Out if we don't like something, or deal with it." You're obviously entering this discussion late. Businesses that run promotional contests offering prizes of value are bound by fairly specific rules--the idea being, you can't lure people to your store or website or whatever with the chance of winning glitzy prizes and then give the prize to your Uncle, or not have any prizes, or give them a different prize than the one you advertised, or change the rules after the contest has begun. The hope is that R'osity will find an equitable solution to this mess and no one will feel compelled to take legal action, as they say. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd hate see R'osity get dragged into litigation (or even criminal prosecution) over this; I really wish they'd address the matter head-on and fix it before it really gets out of hand.

If you tell me that I am in the running for AOY and that there is a monitary gain to be had, then it becomes a no holds barred fight to win win win !

If I am in the running for the AOY and I am gaining on the front-runner and all of a sudden the AOY rules are changed, then I am going to get pissed off and am going to ask you what the hell is going on and you better have a damn good explanation, which better not be, "oops ! We kinda F***ed up, sorry !"

If you tell me that I am in the running for AOY with nothing to be gained, then I would let the chips fall where they may. MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING !

Okay, I am somewhat confused here. I am fairly new to this forum as you know. I don't know any of these artists personally, which means Sir Legume, or Legume just as well as this ToxicAngel person or any of the other artists. I also maintain that I DO recognize each and every candidate up for AOY as an "ARTIST" and that is including Legume. In fact I happen to think your a wonderful "artist" Legume, your art makes people laugh, think, dance, sing, argue, maybe even fornicate among many other things. In so many ways I think that IS what art should be about. I also think that this ToxicAngel's art rubs people certain ways as well, as do all the other artists. All of them ignite some form of emotion and passion among those that view their art or they would most certainly not be the candidates they are. The question of whether you are an artist Legume never entered my mind, YOU ARE, and a very good one, and this coming from a newcomer that knows very little about you other than what I can establish from reading posts here, history or recently, and the artwork you thrill me with time and time again. However, this same comprehension also makes me very curious and also confuses me. It makes me mixed up when I see the shrills and screams all over this big forum countless times by this Mosca fella ranting and raving about this contest being unfair, but ONLY TO YOU Legume, I do not understand this at all??? I don't understand why this Mosca or anyone else hasn't screamed bloody hellish murder for this ToxicAngel, who actually WAS winning; no, not one scream, not even a whimper from this Mosca or anyone else in regards to this ToxicAngel that I can find anywhere, all I can see is this Mosca scream as loud and as often as he can and then those that follow like lemmings off the Legume cliffside. This is why I used the term Sir Legume and his sidekick Mosca, because Legume, it just LOOKS like that you know. It all reminds me of Mutt and Jeff or Abbot and Costello or the Three Stooges with one Stooge missing, there is something just very obvious when all Mosca does is cry foul just for YOU Legume. Why is it just about YOU?? This is something that bothers me. As for asking for votes or stuffing the turkey, I don't think it is cheating to ask for votes if it is within the scope or realm of the subject matter at hand. If a Presidential Candidate were running for office, he would be very foolish to just wait for folks to vote and hope people just blindly notice his qualities of leadership and whatever other reasons one may wish to vote for him, so widespread canvassing and whatever else it takes would be the norm and expected. However, if this candidate starts attempting to win over all the people in China to come vote for him for a Presidential Election in America, there's just something wrong about that now, what do they know about America. I suppose that is what I am comparing this to, it does actually seem that far stretched from what I see here and what I see people say, what do folks from newsgroups and this subgenius stuff know about Renderosity day after day. Okay, we know the contest was NOT stopped because of anything Legume did at all, we have been told this countless times, and I heard it, but does Mosca understand this? I ask this because Mosca still seems determined to make someone, anyone pay for abusing his buddy Legume, that is what I also see. I also don't see him stop anytime soon. I do not see this same thing happening for this ToxicAngel even though he was in the lead and winning and what if he now loses?? Will this Mosca scream as loud for ToxicAngel, campaign as harshly for ToxicAngel, or anyone else up for candidate?? I must sound like I am talking about politics, that's the other thing that still bothers me. I thought I had joined an art site, not a political site about just a few folks that can scream the loudest and only for some and then scream UNFAIR! I really find it sad, the very things this Mosca and others scream about here, the unfairness, the cheating, the corruption; this seems to be happening right before my own eyes, but not by the folks running the place, but by those that seem to think they have the only say and anyone disagreeing with them can go somewhere else or stay out of all this because they don't matter. I think that is unfair, especially since it seems fair that folks from anywhere can vote, but people like me should keep my opinions to myself because I am not an artist and I am too new. To me it appears that the only things that matter in this whole contest is this Mosca and Legume. I mean you no offense Legume, I still think you got caught up into this and of course you are going to ride along, what I don't really get is Mosca's deal here other than a very tight friendship he may have with you. But is THAT fair to ToxicAngel or the others? Should he not be screaming just as loud for them too?? Not that I am saying there is, but IF there was a victim here at all, why is it only you Legume? Because this Mosca says so? This Mosca seems to be a very important person here, but I haven't figured out what he is or why he is as yet. Maybe I am missing something or maybe this Mosca is just very opiniated. If it is just loud opnion, then I think this Mosca should be the last one to scream unfair because he seems to have more screaming rights, and favorable ones, than anyone else here. Perhaps there should be an award for that? Happy Boxing Day

'sides, what about that guy who won the CL Poser5 contest even though he rendered the monster in Vue d'Esprit and post-worked it from here to Judgement Day? Was he cheating? Nope - CL never said you had to use FireSlug to render in, so he won fair and square. (I'd know that moon anyfrigginwhere...) /P

Jeebers, Billy - let it die already... Incidentally, isn't Mosca the latin name for the common housefly? Oh, wait - that's musca domestica Maybe it's Spanish or something? Ach, forget I said anything. Anyrate, Mosca is not Legume's pet, honest. He just has a hyperactive Fairness Gland (and it's prolly swollen right now. Not sure if there's a cream for that...) Incidentally though, Mosca is screaming for everyone on the list - there is no guarantee that Legume would win - and to be honest, there's not much guarantee that anyone would win for that matter. /P

"Sir Legume"? When did you get Knighted, Doc? Ooohhh... but, but, but.. but I just love it when you get all official, Kb. ;]

"Jeebers, Billy - let it die already..." There have been 60 posts between what I just posted and what I posted before, and that is only on this thread alone. And you ask me to let it die? That must be because I am new, I guess. I did not know about this CL Poser 5 contest stuff but it would seem to me there should have been loud screams about that too, if there weren't then there is something wrong. What about all those that only used poser to try to win? If people scream so loud about this, then why not about that too? I guess that is my point. Maybe it was a Vue d'Esprit prize involved too? I have no clue. As for Mosca being a housefly or anything else, please, don't make anyone think I said such a thing. Stuff is so easily taken out of context here already. I did not say anything like that at all. Happy Boxing Day

Close Pengy. Maybe it's latin for the common gadfly? ;]

I've been active at alt.binaries.3d.poser for a lot longer than I've been active here, and as such, want to add to the comments of my esteemed fellow NGers Miss Nancy, BadCo, and Mint. Legume is almost as "controversial" over there as he is here. The fact that we appreciate him for founding the newsgroup doesn't make us a herd of followers. He was criticized (in a mature and unabusive manner) by one of the most active and longtime members over there. He recently posted an image of Jesus performing fellatio which truly hurt my best friend at that group. Nevertheless, my friend defended his right to post such an image. My point is that the fact that Legume posted an amusing "vote for me" message didn't cause us to run over her en masse and "stuff the ballot box." Not at all. I for one considered voting for him, but the vote was pulled before I could make up my mind. I ended up tossing a vote for someone else in the unofficial poll (which is not a negative judgement of Legume, just a personal aesthetic thing.) "Ballot stuffing" means fraud. What Legume did was campaigning, not fraud. If you find self-promotion distasteful, that's only your opinion. To say that it is unethical is also only an opinion, which I happen to find dubious in a society that lauds self-promotion. I wonder if anyone else here, like me, is active in the "conventional" art world of galleries and museums? If so, you know very well that there are no Art Talent Scouts in this world. While I've found the self-advertising of some of my friends over the years to be a snotty and alienating thing, the fact is, four of those people are now "major" art or graphics world successes, raking in very big bucks for their work, cited as some of the most "important" or influential artists in their fields. I do know some quieter folks who got to the top via talent and motivation alone, but their talent is extraordinary. Legume did nothing wrong. Neither, technically speaking, has the Hot20 woman that some love to hate done anything terribly wrong. I don't like it, I think it's childish to get your buddies from elsewhere to vote you into the Hot20, but oh well, it's not against the rules. Sure, it devalues the Hot20 a little, but look at it this way: Does the best qualified politician always win the election? Of course not. The one with the most votes wins. That's why it's important for individuals not to fall for herd-think. If I can say one thing on behalf of the Poser newsgroup, it's that no matter how much we truly appreciate Legume, we don't fall in line behind ANYONE, not even Creepy Clown. Again, I resent the implication tht Legume's message to the newsgroup caused anyone to cast a vote that they wouldn't have, anyway. Maybe the people who believe that Legume was Renderosity's AOY2K2 should set up a "send Legume to Siggraph" fund. Legume can set up a special bank account or something. Your donation of ten dollars or more might help him achieve the prize that might have been his had things panned out the way you would have preferred. Just an impulsive thought. We'll never know for sure who would have won AOY if it were up to the membership. What if, as I trust, TammyC's explanation were true? No conspiracy, nothing to do with Legume at all. That would mean that a lot of rancor and words had been wasted over nothing more than a speculation.

Well BJ, Any comment about a housefly is mild compared to what you have said about Mosca. Lemme see, you say he whimpers and spouts shrills and screams, rants and raves. You also compare him to Mutt or Jeff or Abbot or Costello or even one of the Stooges. I could go on but I believe I made my point. You really should keep your insults to yourself. You are not helping by pouring gas on the fire.

okay....we mostly agree, right? stuffing may not be right, but, legume is right, right? any chance eric claeys could still win? or carles p.? why does this whole thing boil down to the 2 POSER artists running? i think poser might be a serious evil influence, if you want to know the truth ;*) Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Yup Poppi - stuffing is wrong, but Legume is right. Is there any stuffing left? I'm hungry after reading this thread....

WTF is so wrong with stuffing? I'd kill for some cornbread stuffing right now (I've been living north of the Mason-Dixon line for waaaay too long, and nobody up here can do deep-fried foods or cornbread to save their lives.) Grr... now my mouth and my memory are both watering :/ /P

Oh you poor fellow. I'll bet you've noticed that you just flat can not get good Tex-Mex north of the Mason Dixon either. And that stuff they call "hot sauce"? Yeesh...

"Well BJ, Any comment about a housefly is mild compared to what you have said about Mosca. Lemme see, you say he whimpers and spouts shrills and screams, rants and raves. You also compare him to Mutt or Jeff or Abbot or Costello or even one of the Stooges." I didn't say Mosca was a stooge or a horsefly or anything else. The housefly label came from someone else, and then someone else even said something about a gadfly, whatever that is. I was only making a comparison of what a lot of this sounds like, not actually saying Mosca is a Mutt or anything. Please don't you be making a fire out of a harmless way of trying to describe something. I am wondering if Legume was in the CL Poser 5 contest? If he was, did he win? If not, was Mosca upset about that too? Happy Boxing Day

I have my saving graces... my family is kind enough to ship up care packages full of goodies like venison sausage, actual hot sauce (Tobasco is only good on eggs), and the occasional chili (packed in a double-layer of ziploc bags... stuff is like semi-liquid gold, especially if it was made during deer season.) Don't get me wrong - I love Elk and Bison meat, and Utah can do a fair bit of southwest cooking if you know where to look (esp. the smaller mexican restaurants run by folks who know what mexican food is supposed to taste like - ie mexican folk.) However, any place that mixes mayonnaise and ketchup together and calls it "fry sauce" (which is about as spicy as native mormon food gets) simply ain't jack shit in the catfish, chitlins and crawdads department. Heh - Time to book a flight for home and say hello to the ol' man at this rate :) /P

Oh yeah... pickled eggs & jalapenos... damn I'd love to get hold of some of that right now... /P

Yup. I made the mistake of ordering Fajitas in a place in Pennsylvania once, and got strips of meat with ummm... some sort of day-glo neon green and orange sauce on it. Never did that again.

neiner...neiner...i've got jalapenos. they are a necessity, and a great cold cure. omg, i am hungry....and, i have this tiny lil 3 lbs roast that did not get cooked for christmas....yum....bloodmeat, as the kids would say, it is...and, yes, yes, yes....i have louisiana hotsauce. a gal just can't have too many condomints....errr...condom...err...condiments. just kidding...consider that last bit a joke...k?

Darnit ! I just finished off the cornbread stuffing or I'd send ya some Peng !:^> Uh oh, I made posting contact with BJ. Maybe if I just ignore it, it will go away ? I probably have a cliffside to wander off of anyways..................

Ko. *studiously ignores line about condoms... * ;]

Ummmmm..... I dunno Badco. Once one of them latches on to you, it can get oogley. You may be doomed. ;]

Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg !!!!! I knew I was doomed ! The bad part is that I totally should have known better.................. Hey ! I just remembered that I have this nice bottle of Crown Royal, Special Reserve sitting on the counter just begging to help me forget my mistake !:^> Drinks all around I say !

Oh kewl. ;] Let us escapeth to the bar at 3-D Arena where we can crack that puppy open undisturbed. grin

Make mine oyster stuffing. Plenty of onion. BillyJ--I'm going to respond to you, against my better judgment. If you'd actually bothered to read the rest of these threads, you'd know that I've said several times that I don't care who wins AOY, that I think ToxicAngel (or any of the rest of the finalists, for that matter) would make a fine AOY, and that I'd have the same issue with management no matter WHO they were discriminating against--it just appears to be Legume in this case. I'm starting to resent your characterization of me as a shrill, screaming, ranting, raving "sidekick" of Legume's--in fact, I've simply been direct and persistent in asking questions about R'osity's sudden decision to yank the AOY voting--the official explanation still doesn't make sense to me, and I think the customer-members deserve an honest, straightforward explanation. I also think the AOY finalists deserve an equitable solution--it's up to management to produce one, the sooner the better. And that's all I have to say to you--you've contributed nothing to this thread, as far as I can see, beyond a lot of rambling misapprehension and a few interesting adventures in grammar. If you don't think this issue is important, butt out and let the grownups sort it out.

:*)

Oh, and yes--Mosca is Italian for fly. I think it suits me--or this version of my online personae, anyway. Dialyn--good call on the Volpone thing. Though I admit nothing, of course.

"And that's all I have to say to you--you've contributed nothing to this thread, as far as I can see, beyond a lot of rambling misapprehension and a few interesting adventures in grammar. If you don't think this issue is important, butt out and let the grownups sort it out." I do think this issue is very important because I happen to like the art here and I would hate to see the folks that run this place get fed up running this place because folks like you give them such a hard time when they happen to maybe muck up and continue to give them an even harder time even after they acknowledge this and say sorry, we know we messed up. I kind of resent the fact you suggest I contribute nothing. I suppose you are contributing lots and lots with your endless whimpering about this contest and how bad the folks that run this place are? I guess that's really beneficial to all here and very inspirational to all the artists here? I do hope I am wrong, I get the impression this place is a lot more than just about guilt trips, blaming and neverending complaining about the same things, in fact I have seen that it is a lot more, I wish you would too. As for being grownups, my kids even know when to stop making a fuss and stop slurring each other, you seem to still keep going and I am sure you will still be going till next week and the week after. I think this entire place is an adventure in grammer of a sorts because these discussion boards seem so dependant on dueling with words and who has the best and loudest line for the moment. I suppose in that aspect, you win Mosca, although what good that does all these artsists, I haven't a clue. I just hope it doesn't stop them from creating anytime soon.

Haha ! I can't believe that there was a 3d website that I was not a member of. Well I rectified that ! Btw, do you think that Lara Croft will join us for a drink ?

okay I have a thought again if anyone is interested...the thing is, the admins have stated repeatedly at this point that it's not about discriminating against one individual, the facts are that they made a new policy after last year's contest and by mistake went against that policy and posted the poll up for everyone when they really meant to just reserve the AOY selection for the admins alone. Now regardless of what I think of the way it was handled or whether I like the new policy, it's nto as if it's hard to believe that they came up with this new policy last year due to the fact that there was a lot of suspicion that the popular vote was not acurate due to actual "Stuffing" of votes during that contest. The thing is, now that they have apologized(however inadequate that may be) and given reasons for taking the poll offline, all this continued complaining of discrimination only hurts whoever will eventually get the award EVEN if it is Legume because whoever wins will be left with the doubt as to whether or not they truly deserved to win(including Legume, I since I am giving him the benifit of the doubt and assuming he has a consience too). If for instance the winner is ToxicAngel or Rohi or whoever, that person will wonder if they were just selected because the admins prefered them to Legume and not because of their talent as an artist. And Legume(in theory) should he win, will probably be left with the question of "Would I have really been selected if everyone else hadn't screamed discrimination on my behalf?" or "Did they just throw me a bone just to shut me up?".... Anyway, the bottom line is, if the past is any indication, they are not gonna give the vote back to us and continuing to complain about some conspiracy afoot will only ultimately ruin the enjoyment of the title even further for whoever gets it....:( Melissa

Coolness. ;] Heh heh... since I zipped her up, I'm sure I can almost guarantee it. Almost - you know how women are. Even 3D ones. Enjoy. I think it's a cool site, but it's my home away from the other sites, so I'm biased. ;]

I do think this issue is very important because I happen to like the art here and I would hate to see the folks that run this place get fed up running this place because folks like you give them such a hard time when they happen to maybe muck up and continue to give them an even harder time even after they acknowledge this and say sorry, we know we messed up. don't worry about THEM. without US, this site would never have become anything. worry about US, to be on the safe side. without the US of this place...well, it will just be an internet garage sale, plain and simple. trust me when i say...some are getting very, very tired of crap like this contest. oh, 'n shucky durns...i've even heard some have pulled their marketplace items, and, are no longer posting to gallery. now fancy that.

"some are getting very, very tired of crap like this contest. oh, 'n shucky durns...i've even heard some have pulled their marketplace items, and, are no longer posting to gallery. now fancy that." That's what I mean. If everytime something offball happens here and this kind of reaction occurs, it really can leave a bad taste in many mouths here and folks start to wonder if they even want to be here and then even possibly leave. I think that's sad. It's just like that thread in the Copyright Laws and Ethical Standards forum here where folks seemed like they were ready to lynchmob this Clint for not making a snap decision. If he had, the whole thing would have been a lot worse. To me it seems like there's some folks around here that just can't wait for trouble to start so they can have some kind of tabloid hayday at the expense of others or the folks that run the site. Is there not a lot of better things to do? I think the majority of members seem to have the right idea about the creative environment here, but it only takes a few to cause a ruckus time and time again and dull the shine this site has. I like the shine, it is so much more attractive. I just hope this place has a huge supply of wax and hand towels to maintain it during so many storms.

The Poser News Group is my home away from errrrr this place. I pulled my images and freestuff a while back and only come here once in a while to see if it has gotten better. Still the same old same old.............. I'll hang out at the arena and see if it hits the spot. I tried PoserPros for a while but its not what I was looking for either. The commune doesn't work for me and Renderotica shuts out all the non erotic images so I miss the mix of good and evil ! Just finished building a "Zoid" for my son. Time to put him to bed and then I can pour myself one if you all haven't drank it all allready !:^>

Well, I've got to go with the majority, having contests to promote your site and attract business, and then REPEATEDLY having some "ooopsie" as an explanation to smooth things over is'nt ethical at all. No matter how its sliced, the whole thing smells of a corrupt and illegal way of doing business. Anyone who has a business has laws to abide by, which are to protect individuals and to prevent things like this happening. Now no one is going to be able to tell me that the PTB just walked out of a cave or were born yesterday and do not have a f***ing clue over how to run contests, or the difference between a survey and a contest. There are all sorts of reference materials out there for information. I am starting to berlieve that the reason it happened again with this "contest" and has gotten even bigger, is that nothing was done in the past and things were just swept under the rug. I've worked for places that have done things like here recently. All are afraid of the law.
BTW. BJ although i am sure everyone values your opinion, it would seem that you would be better spouting off in a field you know about.Graphic Artists are a unique and special kind of people. They are not hamburger flippers or apple polishers.
Cheers!

http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Mongo

Nah... I was raised Southern - never kick a mans dog, never smoke his last ciggarette, and never take the very last few drinks from a man's bottle. ;] I enjoy Rotica and Animotions a lot - that's where I work, and where I post my images and freebies now [since I no longer post them here]. Or will post more images once we get the new software up... I'm waiting til then to go on a big reposting splurge. 3DA is where I go to relax. I like all the people there, it's laid back, and it's friendly... it's got that "homey" feeling this place did way back when I first joined, and then lost later. Poserpros, RDNA, here, and 3Dc are where I go to find news and keep up on events mostly. And in the case of here, come to find out what the latest Poser related idiocies are. ;] *************** I'm finding myself agreeing with Mongo. [with the exception of the "people who do graphics for a living" bit - that'd leave us with umm, maybe 3 dozen members here Mongo] The reason this keeps coming up, and people who've been around keep taking swipes at it is that it keeps happening over and over in contests associated with this place. Discrepancies, odd happenings, vanishing votes, other oddities like the one that x2000 got a weeks banning for mentioning. You can have all the "shine" and glitz in the world, BillyJ - but if the surface underneath is corroding, it'll keep breaking up.

Recently some students in Deerfield, IL. set up on online business. They thought it would be okay to bid against their own products on E-Bay in order to drive the bid up as long as they were not caught. I read the hard copy story and their reasoning was almost exactly the same as the ones here who seem to be shilling . To make a long story short, they've been banned from E-Bay, the FTC became involved, and there was something about a huge fine for wire fraud (or something like that) due to the scam being pulled over the internet. Of course they were too smart for everyone to be caught also.(snicker)
Don't get me wrong, I like renderosity. It has a lot of potential, but some internal housecleaning seems to be needed(if the posts lately are any kind of indication)

Proves very little, Lon: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Ironbear Returns "Ironbear's Gallery Images Sorry, but no files match your search" - at least now.

besides I don't think having a gallery really signifies that someone contributes to the community...in a way if you think about it, having a gallery here is actually just benefit of being a member of this site... Melissa

I've never denied this being a clone account. As a matter of fact I have admitted so in the past. I like to be able to voice my opinion without it affecting my true gallery work/freestuff/marketplace.

"I've never denied this being a clone account. As a matter of fact I have admitted so in the past. " - Mongo grin You're getting perilously close to assuming that some folks actually do some research before posting an opinion. Bad habit to get into - you're invariably dissapointed when you find out they don't. ;]

@IB...I do! One thing I learned about getting into discussions along time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away. "Make sure you know the answer before you ask the question." Never could figure that one out.

Just kind of funny don't you think that he's telling BJ to quit spouting of about graphics but he has nothing on this site to indicate he is an artist at all. Your all intitled to think and say any thing you like by me. Just pointing out something that caught my eye. I donm't run the forums but this is one reason I rarly post to them. I don't agree with everything that happens here either. But so what. You all act like they killed your first born. Hey if you don't like the contest don't enter them. Site bugs you don't come here. Don't enjoy the forums don't post there. I have been watching this go on here for years. I don't care who owned the site. There is always the same threads cycling around for years. The names may change but the story is always the same. That's why I usually just work on my next image and lurk and laugh. It's not even funny any more to read these forums. So you all jusk keep on keepen on but I have about 100000 better things to do with my time. At least I will get something acomplished. More that I can say all this bitchen and moaning will get done Unsubscribing from these forums have fun

Show you true face. I do this is my real name. iif it hurts your sales then maybe you are in the wrong

Bye,bye "Man of a Thousand Faces".Beautiful work you do BTW.

Lon does do some fantastic stuff, doesn't he? He's always been one of my favorite artists here. ;] Ummm... man, I just gotta ask you Lon... how many last posts to this thread can you have? ;]

Hey, thank you for mentioning all those other art sites, I had no idea about them since I found this place by accident. I looked around and find this interesting. Now I will have lots more art to look at everywhere! This Renderotica place is certainly something I have never thought possible, wow, I knew there were adult picture sites but adult art sites like this? Is it even safe to go in there? That is a joke, don't take it wrong, no one. You know, all these other art forums you mention now have me even wondering more. With so many places that are similar, if this place is so bad and some folks don't seem to like the way things are here, why do so many folks keep hanging here and coming back here? There seems to be a big load of homies here everytime I come here. I can barely keep up to the galleries some days, and folks like to complain lots and lots here, yet, they practically live here each and every day. So if it is so bad, why doesn't everyone just flock away to one or two of these other places? I figure that perhaps a lot of these folks here just like to have something to complain about to make online life interesting, that may be the reason. Or is there really something else that maintains the homies here? Badco above states the other places are not the same at all, so what is so different? If I have a pimple on my bottom I would want to get rid of it, not enjoy it and make it into a boil. You folks here put this place down and they can do no right here and yet in the same breath you all do love it here. This place and its' members reminds me of a married couple that likes to fight and keeps fighting just to maintain the fun relationship they have. I suppose that might make sense. Mongo, I did not think anyone here was a hamburger flipper or an apple polisher at all, just like I didn't go for Mosca being a horsefly. Everyone here is probably well versed in high end careers and many are so very talented they should be professional artists if they are not.

I thought the name was familiar. I guess this was what Mongo was referring to? Lon Chaney: A Thousand Faces

"A loving look is given at his last film and only sound film, a remake of the 1925 'The Unholy Three' (1930), and we see clearly that the incomparable talent of this man could have made an easy transition to the sound era and added so much to the films of the 1930's. Alas, that was not to be. Before the filming of 'The Unholy Three' was completed, Chaney discovered he had lung cancer, and seven weeks after the movie's premiere, he was dead."

I guess that would make this: "Dead Man Posting"? ;0)

Ayup. That would probably be the refference. I strongly suspect that ours may not be the same one... but I wouldn't bet on it. The internet has been called an, er... "medium" before. ;] Anyone for channeling some art?