Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/products/studio.php

I have no doubt that multiple DAZ employees and Dan Farr have occasion to read this forum. I don't think they are afraid to release anything. They just prefer to release it when it works. I've seen nobody from DAZ claim Studio is intended to destroy Poser. However, I have seen remarks to the effect that it will be Poser compatible. My personal opinion is that Studio is DAZ's guaranty to itself that the market remains intact if Curious Labs implodes.

Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12353&start=0

I can't get to that link without creating a user id. Would you be so kind as to tell us what it says.

In a nutshell - They're working on the interface right now and there will be a Mac version. There's also some other technical stuff as well alot of which went over my head. Afraid you'll have to register at PP to get the full deal. Steve does come there occasionaly and answer questions about Daz Studio and where they're at.

"Or maybe they're doing their homework and getting the product done right before releasing it." That's just another way of saying the same thing. Fact is they haven't released the beta as early as they expected, so they have presumably hit some not minor problems. But this has been discussed in other threads, I'd like this thread, if I may, to debate whether we have too high expectations of Daz Studio and I also wonder if Daz have the skills to compete with Curious Labs in the software market. Have they promised too much?

I don't know what DAZ Studio will do. It might be a competitive replacement. When you say Poser compatible, it might mean that it uses Poser files. I am grateful to the folks at Curious Labs for taking over when Metacreations went under. Without them, there wouldn't be a Poser. I believe their problem is that they are taking an existing product and modifying it over and over, getting it to do more things. With today's software and hardware, they would have designed it radically different and it would run better and faster. I think that is what DAZStudio will do. It is possible to build complementary programs in the area of modelling, video posting, and animation. These would expand Poser's abilities in these areas, but I don't think that that is what DAZStudio is about. We'll have to wait and see.

"We'll have to wait and see." Yeah, but in the meantime it's fun to speculate and hear what others think. Thanks for your penny-worth.

IMO it doesn't matter when Studio is released or when it's fully functional...from the looks of it, it'll still be before Poser. After all, they've been working on this iteration of Poser since pre-1999 and still can't get it right.

I certainly don't think that Daz has promised too much at all. They've been rather upfront about the first incarnation of Studio- a beta!

Sorry Caly, maybe I wasn't clear. What I mean is have DAZ promised what they can't deliver. Will we ever see a working DAZ Studio or will it remain vapourware?

A) I don't remember DAZ promising something it didn't deliver in the past. I have no reason to expect that to be the case with Studio.

B) DAZ is on their schedule, not our schedule. It'll be released when it gets released.

C) It doesn't matter. We can still use Poser.

I don't like the implications of 'vaporware'. The program does exist. People like Burton & Penguinisto have seen it- and of course the regular Daz employees. I have no problems with waiting as long as they are making it the very best that they can.

I don't believe you can call it vaporware...was there ever an actual release date ? Its still in the developement stages and wasn't actually scheduled for release.... It will be here when its here...and when it is here, it will be a beta anyway...so the full deal is a way off yet , obviously. If it doesn't show up...oh well...we haven't had it yet, and probably will get over it in about.....2 days ??? And if its released, some will be happy, some will whine, and some won't want it...and there will be comparisons to Poser...and then render comparisons...and all the usual bs... I would just love to see it work correctly..but again, the initial release is a beta, so anything is possible. We just have to wait and see. Speculation goes nowhere.

There was an interview with one of the 3D Graphics magazines in which DAZ gave a release date of, if I remember rightly, early May. "I don't remember DAZ promising something it didn't deliver in the past. I have no reason to expect that to be the case with Studio." I too have been impressed with DAZ's customer service but as far as I know, DAZ has never delivered software before. This is a whole new ball game for them and it suprises me how much confidence people have in DAZ Studio when it's a piece of vapourware promised by a company who have no experience in producing software.

It does exist.. I check the models I am working on in it regularly, and it renders rather nicely. Any specific details I can't really say, other than at this point the interface is being worked on; based on user feedback. I know it seems like its late/silent, but we listen closely to what users say, and sometimes change the schedule accordingly. ML

And the next issue of Computer Arts is supposed to have a review of it so it's probably closer than you think. I think Daz has the right idea not to haunt the forums and tease us like other companies have. I can wait for it, and after all, the first part will be free so we can have a look at it to see if it's what we want before we shell out the money. Daz has delivered Mimic 2.0 so yes, they have delivered software. Marque

What do you consider Mimic? That is a DAZ original product and it is software. So, although I sympathize and understand the frustration of waiting (and waiting and waiting), I truly think that DAZ has committed to Studio and will produce a product eventually. There will be a Michael 3, but no signs of its imminent release either. I guess the best course is to forget about DAZ Studio for awhile until an official announcement is made. Kuroyume

Sorry about that crosspost, Marque. :) Kuroyume

Didn't DAZ buy Mimic and quite recently too?

MallenLane- Thanks for your comment, I almost missed it. That's great news.

I keep hearing conflicting reports about the release date for DAZ studio. I have also heard that in its basic form it will not be a full blown product like Poser 4 or 5 and it will not have any animation capability. It is going to be 'Plug-in' oriented which means that you will need to purchase a lot of add on's to do the things that you can do, or take for granted in Poser. I would also like to say that with the latest service release for Poser I personally find it more stable and a lot better to work with. True its still got some bugs but overall this is a powerful package and its still the best thing around in its class. One more thing to do with people who complain about Poser. It seems to me that some of these people are still stuck on the first step of the ladder when it comes to using this package, so why not try to learn Poser well and get to grips with it before talking about DAZ studio in the hope that it will somehow solve the problems of your lack of skill which only comes with practice and effort and the desire to find out and experiment.

PXP, Click on the link above to see the most reliable information about DAZ Studio. I think it's fair to say that some people cannot seem to get Poser 5 running well on their machines. I'm fortunate not to suffer these problems and think Poser 5 is a great product. DAZ are going to attempt to break into this market and their track record of customer support has many fans as you can see from the comments above. With the free Beta releases, we'll be able to judge for ourselves which is the better product or, we may even find ourselves using both products for different effects. With two suppliers, I think things can only get better - fingers crossed!

I think I read in Animotions that Daz3d was releasing it for free, but I'm not sure.

The beta version of Studio will be free. They're also releasing it in stages, as new modules become available and stable. My own feeling is that Daz is doing it right. The community here has said dozens of times that we'd rather have a very stable product with few bells and whistles to start, rather than umpteen service packs that don't fix the problems we've found. I tend to go by track record, and Daz has a good one. Their products until now have been the best quality. Their service and support is better than about anyone else. They keep the community informed (although an update on Studio and Mike 3 would be nice about now). They take the feedback we give them from here and use it. I also don't think that Daz will release Studio too early because of cash problems due to bad management, unlike some companies. I also think that Studio will support all of the major figures we use (since most of them are from Daz anyway). The nice thing about the modular approach is that the program will not have all the overhead on loading. I very seldom use animation. I don't use the hair room or face room in P5. Content Paradise is a joke. Yet every time I open Poser, those modules take my memory away from rendering. I'd rather pay for the parts I use, and cut down on the overhead. As for P5... It is a great product, and a bad product. Lots of things don't work as advertised, and many of the features are truly wonderful. I use it all the time. Except when I've got multiple high res figures and textures, or try to do animation, or use V3 in a final render. Then I back off to P4, or export the posed scene to Vue and render there. Pick the tool that works for the goal you have in mind. P4 and P5 and Vue and Bryce are all tools. Studio just adds a new one to our toolbox. We'll decide what to use it for when we actually see it.

functionality of Poser 5. It's not even going to have the >full functionality of Poser 4. The I don't think it is wise to compare Studio and Poser against each other as if the two programs will be racing towards becoming the best at one particular goal. From the information I have about Studio it is very clear that it will be a bit different kind of beast. For my personal and business needs as an artist, Poser offers absolutely nothing, but Studio will be a viable option for animation, rendering and some other key features. While there will be a lot of crossover in eventual functionality, Studio seems primed to evolve into something fundamentally different than Poser, however most current Poser users will find great benefit in using it for the lionshare of their work.

For those that don't have a PoserPro membership, here's Steve's message, intact so so there's no trouble with the wording :-) "Interesting to watch how this little thread starts and stops and then starts again. icon_smile.gif I was just talking to Cooler, who researched and found out that P5 was originally first announced a full 14 months prior to shipping (according to Cooler's research on Renderosity). While we do realize that it has been some time since we've updated our Product page announcing DAZ|Studio, and though we've come close to releasing more information a few different times, we've later repented and thought better of it. We don't want to commit to anything until we're certain it's going to be in the initial release and that it works. We do appreciate all the people who continue asking about it, it helps us remain positive that there still is indeed a market for DAZ|Studio (where's the emoticon for "praying"?) As for the few questions, I'll do what I can to answer the ones that I can: Thorney: DAZ|Studio handles RIB's in order to communicate with the 3Delight renderer, from what I understand, but there's been nothing decided as to when any sort of RIB import feature will be created. As for ATI/NVIDIA GL extensions, that is already in and will be part of the first release. You are absolutely right: Real-Time is where it's at, or at least in my opinion. icon_smile.gif The Laughing Vulcan: Yes, there will be a MAC version released as well. As for multi-threading, not in the first release, but perhaps down the road a bit from last I heard. Sit tight! It's coming, we're working heavily on the interface right now, which personally, I'm quite pleased with what they've come up with so far. Take care, Steve Kondris DAZ Productions, Inc."

I think many of us have been so disenchanted with Poser 5 that we really want Daz Studio to be the next big thing. I have never been disappointed with any product I have purchased from Daz and applaud the high quality of their human figures and accessories. I also echo some other folks here, I like the plug-in module approach to Daz Studio. I for one, don't animate so I don't really care about animation capabilities right now. I also like the idea of only paying for the features that I will use. I am also looking forward to a straight forward, easy approach to texturing my figures rather than the cryptic Material Room of Poser 5. I am also willing to wait for Studio so that they can make the program the best it can be. If Poser 5 hadn't been rushed to market perhaps we'd all be happier with it. Also I want to note one more thing, it's been almost a year since P5's release and people still aren't happy with it. I don't remeber people complaining about P4 or PP the way they have about this product. Last summer we were all dreaming about added features we wanted in P5, but we were still posing happily away--even with the now forgotten Dork and Posette.

'empty speculation with no facts' is what this thread should have been titled. I understand that people want information, or failing that, to make wild guesses at what a software may or may not do, but it's pointless really. Of course, not that that's ever stopped anyone. Human nature, I guess. What do we know about DAZ|Studio? Well, we've seen the interface and we have the word of several reliable people who have or are using it, so we know it's not 'vaporware'. That comment is totally unjustified. We know it's 'poser-compatable'. What does that mean? It means, presumably, that we can use all or most of our poser figures in it. We also know it's modular. So, instead of paying $200 for software with a bunch of things we have no use for, we pay $50 for the 5 plug-ins we need (random prices pulled out of my umderpants). Does that make sense? It sure does to me! And lastly, we know it'll be a free beta and it won't cost us a cent to find out whether it's a turkey or not. Other than that, we know very little, so why don't we just leave it at that until DAZ get the damned thing built. Then the feeding-frenzy can begin in earnest. And believe me, it will. mac

understand that people want information, or failing that, to make wild >guesses at what a software may or may not do, but it's pointless really. To me, the interesting thing about the hype around Studio is that the energy is not driven nearly so much by Studio features or what it can do, but instead by what Poser can not do. And I mean some really fundamental desires, like stability, value for the money, usabillity in a workflow, etc. Granted, none of these things are proven in an as of yet unavailable studio, but there is at least a possibillity of it (a probability, in fact), where there is not in Poser. All this speaks volumes.

Quoll, You're absolutely right, and I think the reason for it is the fact that DAZ are building from zero, with no baggage carried over from a previous version of their app. Naturally, since DAZ has a good track record in other propducts, people are hoping that they'll succeed in doing what CL promised, but obviously didn't do. I'm not trashing poser 5. But there's no denying that it was definitely NOT built 'from the ground up' as CL said it would be. mac

Hmm... Well, I'm certainly no fan of DAZ, that's common knowledge. But for the sake of the Poser community, I'm hoping DAZ Studio will be worth the wait. I think Poser itself, at least so long as Curious Labs owns it, is done with, dead, no future at all. P5 is an utter failure and P4 is just too limited to do much more with. It's completely outdated, a model T in a world of Ferraris. The only thing that's kept it going this long is the price, but after a while that's not going be enough. BUT, while I congratulate DAZ for restraining themselves from whipping the masses into a frenzy like Cooper and co. did, I DO think they should be a little more open. Honestly, by saying nothing, they merely encourage more and more speculation about what DAZ Studio will/won't do, and frankly, I think it's getting to the point where it will never meet peoples' expectations and will be deemed a failure no matter how good it is. It would be in their best interest to be a little more forthcoming, especially about what it WON'T do. As far as the release, they really caused themselves a headache by telling 3D World it would be out in May, they have only themselves to blame for that. But I'd rather it was late if it actually works right. Tossing out buggy shit just because you're too money-hungry to wait until you actually get it working is getting to be an epidemic. Poser 5, Amapi 7, Carrara 2 (and now v3 is coming, how bad will THAT be?), etc. When a company is working on the first patch before they even release the software, something is drastically wrong. Of course, if DAZ Studio turns out buggy, they'll be burned at the stake whether they call it "beta" or not, whether it's free or not. And after the P5 debacle, it will be scrutinized VERY carefully by a LOT of people... I don't blame them for taking their time.;)

"There was an interview with one of the 3D Graphics magazines in which DAZ gave a release date of, if I remember rightly, early May." I saw that too. If I recall correctly it was Computer Arts. Never trust release dates as posted in trade journals. :-) They're very frequently premature. Hey DAZ peeps! Take aaaaaall the time you need to get it right to your satisfaction. Eschew nattering nabobs of negativism. :-) As for the rest of us, when the beta is released, let's remember that one of the purposes of a beta is to help find and report bugs, not to get a perfect product. It's really cool that DAZ plans a free public beta. Many software and gaming companies require one to pay to participate in a public beta release. This is a show of good faith on DAZ' part. Let's pay 'em back with our own shows of good faith, whaddya say?

At least they're not charging us to beta-test like you know who...;)

There is an industry approved forula for calculating shipping dates of software. Shipping Date = Current Date + 2 Weeks. ; ) I agree. Take the time, do it right.

I echo X2000's request for an idea of what Daz Studio cannot do. Even if it's only a preliminary assessment of Beta 1-- they did this to a certain extent on their site. Few people saw the lack of save capability and when this was publically restated, all hell broke loose. It's my understanding that was also taken into consideration by Daz in restructuring the timetable. Whether that means that the first beta will be save enabled or simply that the first beta will be upgraded more quickly than planned I don't know. I do know it was mentioned at PoserPros that it was in the plans to show off the gui at Siggraph but this was scuttled because it isnt ready or to the state they want yet. ALl of this, I think is a sane and reassuring attitude in an industry which is increasingly throwing out half or 3 quarter finished products and then following with the inevitable patch to make them work at all. That Daz isn't aware of this would be naive. After all, some people-- probably not a majority-- were not all that pleased at the number of patches Vicki3 needed. But I think some of this comes with the cost of vastly increasing the sophistication of 3D products. We're not satisfied with hastily textured, flat scenes with Posette anymore. Well, most of us. All I know is, Vicki 3 is barely working in Poser5 and Mike3 is close at hand-- something has got to eventually give. If I was planning releases at Daz, I'd put Studio first. Just because of the uproar that will come with trying to use Vicki3 and Mike 3 together. Ey-yay-yay! Emily

I would be quite happy if all Daz Studio did was load Poser models, pose them (with props and clothing) and export obj files that can then be rendered in a serious rendering program. Doesn't Poser 4 do that already, you ask? Yes, but in such a clunky way that an alternative would be welcome.

I never thought I'd do this, but I'm about to quote Bill Gates, (and not take the piss :) When talking about Linux His Billnes was reported to have said that it's easy to code to a spec that says, "To build a full working copy of X" (in that case UNIX) but it's much harder to code to a psec that says, "to build the best OS possible" Now personally I don't think Bill et al. have built the best Os possible, infact I think they've had a hard time intergating everything they've ever copied into a coherent, stable and secure product. But that aside I think he has a point. It is much easier to copy than to build, which is why I don't doubt that when Studio arrives it will be better than Poser, if only becuase they have the example of what went wrong, (as well as what went right) and what people actually use in Poser. It's primary goal is to give greater exposure to DAZ product, which, since we use lots of, it should make us all very happy, and of course, it's free, (as in beer) so other than the bandwidth cost, it won't stretch your wallet or your patience. OK so it's going to be a beta first, but we've all been there, and if Daz does really listen, then they've got my vote, (and my cash, should they require it) later jb

praxis22 makes a good point. It's much easier to rewrite an application than to create it from scratch. You have a near perfect specification to work from. Curious Labs have the more difficult decision of enhancing the original or doing a re-write. The obvious advantage of enhancing the original is that you have code that works and you can bolt on the new features. How easy this is depends not just how modular the original code is, but how that code fits in with where you want to take the application. The commercial advantage of enhancing the original is that it should take less development time and, hence, will be cheaper. When Curious Labs made the decision to make Poser 5 they presumably knew they had some financial problems, they didn't have any direct competitors and Poser 4 was the most pirated 3d application (so I read in 3D world), so it was obviously a popular and relatively easy application to use. So it doesn't seem strange to me that they went for the enhancement option with increased copy security rather than a complete rewrite. The copy security was bought in and was a disaster. It's obvious that the pre-release testing was not done with this security feature in place. I have to wonder how much of Poser 5's current problems was due to the copy security and I imagine the solicitors of each company are still working on this case! I haven't checked how much memory Poser 5 takes when it's initialised compared to Poser 4, but I guess it's a lot. It appears to load up a lot of extra features instead of loading them in as needed. The majority of Poser's customers are enthusiasts on a tight budget, so we are not going to have the best machines. W98 struggled with Poser 4, I'm amazed some have got Poser 5 to work with it. To be fair, those of us that have a working Poser 5, find that most of the bugs in Poser 4 have been fixed and we have some new features. If your OS and machine can handle Poser 5 and you only do the things Poser 4 does, it does them better than Poser 4. But, the new features are really badly documented. For example, the material editor is great when you suss it, but the manual covers it appallingly! DAZ Studio have taken the second option, well they didn't have a choice did they! They have gone for a modular design, the long term option which they can build on. They are building in the capabilities of Graphics Cards. They are already in the Poser communities eye with their excellent products, customer support reputation and a very good web site on which to sell their product. Their product won't have all the capabilities of Poser 4 when it is released, but, if they get the shell right , it shouldn't take too long for them to match first Poser 4 and then Poser 5. If they allow other companies to write plug-ins, this process will be even quicker. If DAZ give the basic shell and renderer free, then most of us could be using DAZ Studio along side Poser. As DAZ Studio functionality increases, Posers share of CPU time would decrease -assuming we can afford and want to purchase the new modules. Curious Labs have the market now and I'm sure they have a cunning plan to stay in business, be it an SR4 release, Poser 6 or writing modules for DAZ Studio. :0)

"The obvious advantage of enhancing the original is that you have code that works ..." The problem is that so much of the Poser code doesn't work. What really gets me is this: don't the people at CL ever actually use Poser themselves? It seems not. If it were my program, and I was using it, and found it wasn't working properly (one e.g. out of many - always zooming in on the feet from the side cameras), then I would FIX it! So Daz Studio has the advantage of seeing what doesn't work in Poser. But CL should also see this.

"To be fair, those of us that have a working Poser 5, find that most of the bugs in Poser 4 have been fixed" Could you please point out which P4 bugs have been fixed? My Poser 5 works (sometimes) and the only fixed bug I'm aware of is crosstalk. All the others are still there.

"The problem is that so much of the Poser code doesn't work." Are you talking P4 or P5. If Poser is that bad, how come so many of us use it. This is one of the most popular forums in Renderosity which covers a lot of apps. Poser is relatively cheap and it does the job most of the time. There are small bugs and I agree that Curious Labs don't provide good support. I'm hoping a bit of competition will change Curious Labs attitude here and we see some healthy competition between the two.

"If Poser is that bad, how come so many of us use it" Easily answered - there's no affordable alternative. Yet. Sure it does the job, but one has to wrestle with it the whole time. Partly bugs and partly clumsy design.

All I ask is that 'someone' release a Mac OSX compatible program that will free me from relying on Classic OS Nein. I understand that Curious Labs is working on P5 for OSX and DAZ|Studio will be OSX compat, and I am grateful. I will wait as long as I have to for a good reliable product....but only because I have NO choice. :)