Alright guys ..what do YOU think should be done? Issue: we have a Poser Forum and a Product Showcase. The merchants do not feel that enough people view the Showcase. The Poser Forum (in general) does not want the ads back in the forum. How do we get more people to the Showcase? Or conversely, do we feel it is a good idea to mix another 50+ posts a day into the already crowded Poser Forum? Lyrra the Migrained

I think the good point about having a separate forum for the ads is that they don't annoy anyone. Right now, the showcase forum is like a catalogue to browse through. If we had ads in the forum, they should at least be marked with a special color, otherwise it'd become too confusing. I'm already a selective reader and decide by topic wether to read a thread or not. With an additional 50+ posts a day in which I most of the time don't have any interest (sorry, I haven't spend a single cent here, I only download and upload free stuff), I don't think I'd enjoy this forum as much as I do now.

How do we get more people to the Showcase? Some how make it's existance and purpose better known (newsletter etc.)to all old & new members. Let people know the difference between "What's New", the Forum & Product Showcase. New folks arrive every day. Maybe a "Welcome" and "Site Orientation" email to new members, which explains the purpose and links to each area would help. Just a few thoughts :- )

Would it be possible to implement another flag, like the nudity flag, lets call it, say 'advert'. If the were an option in your profile to hide 'advert' threads, you could choose to see them or not. Would only work if the merchants would agree to set this flag for adverts.

Give people an incentive to go to the Product Showcase, e.g. give them a voucher for a 25% discount on the product of their choice after 25 or 50 visits. In addition, use Product Showcase to allow people to make requests for products they would buy. If there's already a product wishlist somewhere else, why not combine the two functions?

The ad flag idea that we brought up in previous threads seem to be popular. Lyrra, you may have also noted my post in one of the other threads about being able to see the latest discussions in the product showcasevia the header of the Poser forum, as a means to drive more traffic there.

Try giving it a more prominent position in the forum header for a month or two, then if that fails the extra flag would be OK (but that means paging through two more batches of 25 messages, so I'd rather not).

Oops, sorry. didn't realise a flag had already been suggested.

Nah, that's great Ian... shows that the idea is popular with a few people. I have one stipulation on the idea, myself... if people can flag ads to make them invisible, then the Product Showcase should show all topics flagged for commercial content, regardless of filter.

I'm a merchant. And I mean that it is a terrible bad way to annoy people with ads if they wouldn't notice somebodys products. The web is full of shit one can buy. Let the poser-people alone here in this forum, that's my point of view. I find that idea with a discount a good one. Because this can only be done by Rosity, I'll go a slidly different way. Soon I will post a product-note to the showcase. Whoever sends me the "password" found there get's a free gift after a regular buying.

DraX, I agree. Good point. If I go into Product Showcase I want to see all the posts, whatever my flag is set too.

Not just that... I think the showcase should then show all comercial content from all forums... but that's just me.

DraX, OK. So if I go into Product Showcase I see all commercial posts from across the whole forum. That would be great! (you've thought about this haven't you) :-)

I was thinking about just putting a link in the banner to the showcase. Then I noticed there is one. It just doesn't stand out very much. Maybe if it was more prominent or had a "what's new" title every so often it would get more traffic.

I do believe that the Product Showcase Forum is supposed to be for/from all forums but with Poser having the highest number of MP items, inevitably that's what you're going to see the most of in the PSF & complaints from the Poser forum when/if they show up in there. Myself, I don't care. I have only a certain amount of time in a day and don't always cruise all the forums I would like. If I want to know what is new - I go to the MP link and hit 'What's New'. BUT, I think that the Showcase forum also contains posts from ppl who have items for sale in a place other then Renderosity - the forum banner info says 'The Showcase Forum and Gallery are intended for all commercial related postings within our community' but there are those other posts - which don't bother me either, I consider it kind of a help. I suggest an additional (image?) link in the Poser Forum banner to the Products Showcase Forum. No clicking of a flag to remember or worry about being flagged invisible and missing something you might actually wanna see. Then it's as simple (to me) as a lil blurb of html on the Poser forum banner instead of setting up another check field and/or viewing preference. There's a link from the Showcase forum to the Wishing Well, so why not? Might be a good thing to have in the banners of other forums as well.

You want to get more people into the Product Showcase Forum? SIMPLE! :) All products and free stuff announcements have to be put in the Product Showcase Forum. You can still ask where a free item is in the Poser Forum but you can't announce a new free stuff item in the Poser Forum.

Ugh - cross-posted w/Eric - who's post only showed that I just don't read. L Maybe that's a good thing tho - the Product Showcase Link just doesn't seem to stand out.

Alternately, a similar tactic as with the "copyright issues" threads could be adopted: post the info in the Product Showcase, then put a brief message in the Poser forum to the effect of: "Check Product Showcase for my new goodies! Replies on Product Showcase thread, please." That will reduce "Ad + 5-25 replies" to "Ad notice" alone, while ensuring that those who mostly haunt the Poser Forum don't miss anything.

How about this. A flag for advertisements that automatically sets a link to the Product Showcase forum, and closes the thread. So a merchant has a thread title, example, 'Mike3 wellington boots!', checks the advertisement flag, which results in a closed thread with a link (and a preview pic if they want to upload one) to the showcase forum. That way if people are interested in that item they have to go to the showcase forum to view the details. That way you could also set in your preferences whether to see adverts just like nudity and/or violence.

these people work hard on these products and should be able to put them into the potential buyers faces, anywhere they want to, more business for them is more business for rosity.. If these children don't like it posted in this forum, then simply don't click it. My word much ado about nothing (Let me get a hold of this place, you'd sure make a lot more money and have a lot happier members)

Why have the showcase forum anyway?

In my situation, heres why not. But I could care less either way.

I come home, go to renderosity. I first hit the galleries, Ill run through about 10 pages until I hit where I left off from my last log in.

Then I go to free stuff and see what has been added everyday since my last visit.

Then I go to the market place and do the same procedure as I did in free stuff. If theres something that catches my attention, I click on it and check it out.

Then I hit the forums and do the same process.

Now, I dont mind the product placing in the poser forum, as long as its NOT the same renders and description of the product I just looked at ten minuets ago. So if the merchants are going to advert their products, at least use a different render and description. If not, theres no real reason to have a product showcase, right? I just finished looking at the same picture a few minuets ago in the market place.

As a NEW merchant, I can see where there is some problem just getting my product known to the community.... Maybe if the staff (or some member who was willing to contribute the time) could do a survey of what's available in the different categories, there would be more interest. The other thing is, if I see someone directly asking about the very problem that my product solves, can't I tell them about it in a reply, or should I have to go to IM for that? I mean the reply might easily be useful to other members who have the same question.

I think a second tiny banner under the "Hot Products" one that leads to the Product Showcase would do nicely. Ads just clutter up the Poser forum, but it would be nice to have a noticable link to those postings for those interested. >>Let me get a hold of this place, you'd sure make a lot more money and have a lot happier members<< Haha, Doc Legume once said I should run this place too. :) You wouldn't want me to though, I'd move the Marketplace to a separate site and make sure everything here was free...like in the pre-Marketplace good old days. ;) Take care. SnowS

dirk5027 - despite my own open opinion about where merchants can/should place posts for commercial items, I, and I'm sure a large number more, take acception to your choice of the word 'children' to paste onto those people who have a more fine-tuned estimation. It intimates that you feel these folk's point of view is immature, undeducated, or naive.

Your idea of simply not clicking on that type of post seems to me to be ignorant of the idea of how spam works - in that the subject line can be made to be misleading thus pulling people further in to find more information.

Some people are happy to read about any Poser within one forum - others want more separation. Like there already is with the Poser Python Scripting forum and the Poser Technical forum. However, the Product Showcase forum is supposed to cover the entire community.

I'm against flagging. We already have a Showcase Forum for commercial posts. This was to my view working very well until a couple of days ago when some people started to take the Michael. If you change anything just put a more prominent link at the top of the Poser Forum page. I go to the showcase forum when I want to read or make Commercial posts. I do not want a flag to turn on and then have to trawl through pages of what will then be mixed posts looking for the ones I want to read. Also, dirk5027, I am not a child. I find your remark insulting.

If you implement a flag AND keep the Showcase forum then the Poser Forum will be inundated with (flagged) "Go read my message in the Showcase forum" posts. This would get old really quick. It used to be called cross posting and was always frowned upon.

"these people work hard on these products and should be able to put them into the potential buyers faces, anywhere they want to"

I take offence to unsolicited advertising. The best way to get me to not buy something is to shove it in my face. I do not want the Poser Forum, flagged or otherwise to degenerate into nothing but spam. The other side of the coin is that I will not thrust my product notifications in inappropriate places. Commercial posts go in the Product Showcase Forum others go to the Poser Forum. Its not rocket science.

for development ads- request for help with up coming products ect...- the product show case ISN'T needed- thats what the private Merchants forum is for, in my opinion!!! if they want market research- post in the product showcase. Now- having said all this- I remember and liked the good ole days when the forums were wide open- never knew what ya would come accross :)

Not all Free stuff announcements have "no strings attached" when you have to go to there store to get it. What, you think they are advertising there free stuff just for the heck of it?

there = their sorry typo. :

Then it'd be called the Market Research forum, Ken ;) It's my understanding that the Products Showcase forum allows for more of a public announcement arena with further links and/or renders. And in my opine - if the totality of us could have carried on thread topics and stayed in focus/on-topic w/o it breaking down into non-productive babble (name calling, product bashing, etc.) then they wouldn't have instigated all these reins and ropes to keep all us wild and unruly folk in line ;) And we all know it was not the result of the mass, it was the result of the few (topics or ppl - take your favorite choice).

Hmm... Keep the products in the product showcase. Add a link to the top of the poser forum header for more visibility. You could always add a "WIP" or "Coming Soon" type forum for those who are doing WIP posts and are not sure whether they are going to sell the item or give it away. If so, add a link to the poser forum header for that too. I also think it may be a good idea to have a "merchant contact" or "product question" forum open to all members for people who have questions about a purchase or want more details. Thats my $2.50 (or 99 cents as this weeks advice in on sale ;) )

Yes @ what raven said ^^^ up there post 19.

Various comments/opinions: If people want to buy/peruse stuff, they'll find a way to look for it. Whether in the MarketPlace or the Marketplace AND the Showcase. I realize R'City needs to make money. And I know merchants want to make money. But, I'm a bit tired of being the lowest common denominator in life. I'm tired of advertising thrown in my face when I am trying to do something else. One can't drive down the darn road, turn on the radio or TV, go to a website, open a magazine, get your email, get your snail mail, open a bill, rent a movie or DVD, and (well, you get the idea) without having ads thrown at you. I'm so sick of it, I don't listen to the radio any more and I record any TV program so I can skip the ads. When I log into R'City, I get an ad. In fact, every page I go to seems to have an ad. Then to have ads sprinkled throughout the threads, well, adds even more. But as someone said above, just skip them. Easy for me, but there was a time when I had dial-up and I bet a lot of people still have dial-up...so, waiting for ads to come in only adds to the misery of R'City (which can be slow even on cable sometimes). So, if I want ads, I know where to find them. Why find them? Why have a Showcase? Because, as a largly automated group of people, categorizing things is what we expect. Logical sense. The reason we have folders on our PCs. Also, why have a vendor post "upcoming" items? Easy...to allow questions (like I asked about the new Howler by Samctum Art). Or to get feedback so the vendor can adjust what s/he is making (like recently with Ironhart's new building). Also, since R'City allows information about products being sold at other places, I can see even more items (without having to visit each of those sites). For the person who said I can just look in the MarketPlace when it's finally released, well, not all the items in the Showcase go to R'City's Marketplace. So, I'm glad there is a Showcase and the opportunity to "chat" with the vendor. An "ad" flag? Not sure it will work. People who don't want to see ads will just flip the switch. And, for people like me, I'll flip the switch and just go to the Showcase/Marketplace when I'm in the mood for ads. Just another opinion...FWIW.

Putting something like you suggested in the forum header, i.e. something that highlights the most recent post in PS isn't an option I'm afraid, good idea though it is. The header uses static HTML, it's not generated server-side as the main page content is. In order to change the header content it has to be manually edited.

It ain't broke. Don't fix it. :-)

'Yes' to everything PhilC said. And I'm the same about in-your-face advertising. Offensive flashing ads turn me right off. Same goes for sneaky tactics and misleading thread titles. If it's some cheap attempt to get me interested in a product, it's more likely to put me off it. What some people apparently don't understand is that a one-line title sending people to another forum would still add pages of junk titles to this forum. And what's to stop people posting for the same product every single day under new thread names? I come here to learn or give help, read about people's successes or woes with poser, and generally keep up with current poser events. But that does NOT include being inundated with promos for products. I get enough crap in my mail for viagra and penis/breast enhancement as it is. These posts belong in their own forum. Full stop. mac PS Rename it the SEX forum. That'll pull them in there in droves.

The one line title wouldn't add pages if you had the option to turn off advert in your preferences like you do with nudity and violence.

"PS Rename it the SEX forum. That'll pull them in there in droves." LMAO

'The one line title wouldn't add pages if you had the option to turn off advert in your preferences' Very true, raven. But I reckon the prefs idea is a turkey as far as merchants are concerned. A lot of people would switch ads off from the git-go, which defeats the whole object of the exercise. The only people annoyed by ads would be the newbies who haven't figured out how to kill them yet. mac

Yes, but as a lot of people don't want ads in this forum, I just thought that would benefit them. That way the merchants could still advertise here, without upsetting the people who don't want ads. All the rest would still have them. If people don't want ads and don't go to the showcase, nothing is going to change their minds.

Yes to what PhilC said, keep the spam out of here. If I want to see ads, I'll go the the Product Showcase Forum.

My two cents. I don't want ads back here. Look at how many rode the Mike 3 thing, when ads aren't allowed. I can just imagine if ads were. I don't want ads shoved in my face. Look, I don't even watch TV any more, that's how much I dislike commercials. If this forum did become filled with ads, eventually I would get fed up with it and just go somewhere else. And if I'm not here reading the forums, I'm not going to hit the marketplace as much. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would do this; I just happen to be warning you now. Flagging similar to the nudity flags would be acceptable. For the merchants who feel they aren't getting enough exposure, here are some OT suggestions for getting the business of people like me. * Spend a good deal of time on the banner that gets rotated through the top of the page. Show a good quality picture, be specific. You've got 10 seconds; make me want to click and see more of your product. * Spend a good deal of time on the thumbnail that's shown on the store pages. Again, you need to catch the eye and make me want to click. * Freebies. Freebies are EXCELLENT advertising. * Don't be whining about not being able to shove your products into people's faces whenever and wherever you want. I'm not here for your benefit, all right? I am a human being, not a walking credit card. Relate to me as a fellow artist, not a potential sale. * Don't be insulting your potential customers. * ... I just realized the insulting person doesn't have a storefront here. Hmmm... I'm gonna go ponder that for two seconds, I think.

Ok, to set the stage, I'm a buyer first, a vendor second (finally). I've had issues with the layout of the Forums for some time. It may have worked in the beginning, but it's time for a serious revamp of the layout. It's crowded, requires a lot of scrolling, and the sheer mass of daily messages can be taxing to get through in a day. Hiding forums was a great idea at first, but what if you need a forum later, and you forgot you hid it? How difficult would it be to rearrange the main Forum page to where each program (Poser, Bryce, Photoshop, etc) had two or three subdivisions? Here's a rough example: ---------- POSER <--This is a header Moderators: 1. Product Showcase - Check out works in progress, product announcements, or communicate with the creator of the product. This is a forum for Poser product news. 2. Technical Support - Got a Poser problem? Here's where you can find help from other Poser users, and hopefully get back on track. 3. General Discussion - Doesn't fit in Product Showcase or Tech Support? Well, this is where it goes. Please, no advertising or site spam, unless specifically related to someone's discussion. ---------- Now, all the Poser-related forums are in ONE spot, and easily accessed by all interested parties. Don't want the Product Showcase? Don't go in there...but it's right there if you DO want it. Same layout can be used for any other program on the forum list. Now granted, some forums don't need all three. Ok, so don't make all three...not like they can't be added in later if necessary. It might also be a good idea to start breaking up the main page into smaller main areas, as well. Given the time, I could make some more suggestions...but as this thread relates only to Poser and the Product Showcase, I'll cut it here. Anyway, there's my two coppers, for what they're worth. CT

Does no one remember how many posts for new items we had to wade through every day just to get to the regular posts about Poser? This should NOT be a place for people selling stuff. It was terrible before, and that's why the other forum was created. I hate wading through ads about products in my email and it's the same if you let it into this forum again. If I want to know what's for sale I will look. New people are going to figure out where to go. This is the forum for tips and ideas and sharing, not for the marketplace. Please just put up a banner or something but don't let the ads back into the poser forum. Marque

I agree with PhilC and Marque on this one NO ADS IN THE POSER FORUM!

Folks, as xoconostle said IT AINT BROKE. Nothing needs changing. Let it be. And most definitely NO NEW FLAG in the forums. (1) It's all or nothing and I might miss something good so I wouldn't set it (2) if there were a flag, even the merchants who never considered posting would start to. Can you say 1000 new posts a day? I thought so.

More people would come to the Product Showcase if it were not a rehash of what's already in the marketplace. I'm a major Poser junkie but seeing the same picture over and over again is boring and turns me off. If you're a merchant and you want more buyers, do more promos for Product showcase. Ask for suggestions, give contests and freebies. Announce sales, etc. A slightly larger notice of the Product showcase and why one might benefit from going there would help, but no flags, no ads in the regular Poser forum. You can't force people to buy without driving them away-- and that's what ads in the regular forum feel like. Emily

I am so with you on this Lyrra! my head hurts too! outch!

How do you differentiate ads? What is commercial? If you don't want to read a post, no one is forcing you to. Generally, promo's are going into the Showcase forum. The Mike stuff is as much to show off M3 as it is to show off the vendor's product. Many times the vendor is asking for advice, not showcasing. I do like the idea of a discount given in teh Product Showcase forum though. But that's because I'm a cheap bastard with too little cash to get what I want. However, that said, it should be up to the vendor, not a 'sity policy. It's a shame the 'sity doesn't have product specific coupon coding available. Then the merchant could run a promo based on the coupon number given in the Showcase.

There's always problems, but this is really a little one. Nice to discuss something this minor for a change. At least we aren't talking class action suits the way we were a few months ago. And Lyrra, you and the mods are doing a great job. You are all well appreciated.

PhilC is da man! Right on the money there my friend :) I'm with Phil 100%. There is no need to change anything as the whole system was working perfectly fine. Just because a couple of commercial posts where put in this forum is not justification enough to change the way things are running. Simply move the posts to the Showcase forum and be done with it. If I'd placed commercial images/text in this forum I'd have expected it to be moved pretty much immediately. I don't advertise in this forum because it's not allowed. I advertise in the Showcase forum because it IS allowed. What's to figure out?

I'm definitely with PhilC and many others on this one. As a buyer, I can say that there positively are vendors (and sites -- remember Bbay?) who I will not buy from because of a number of reasons (poor customer service, unethical practices), and oversaturation and in-your-face pitching is certainly at the top of that list. It doesn't matter how nice it looks -- if so-and-so is selling it, then I'm moving on to look at the next item. Vendors have to understand something about marketplace economics. There will be booms and there will be lulls. When DAZ/Studio comes out and the initial for-pay add-ons are released, a lot of peoples' money will be going elsewhere, for example. And there will just be some times when peoples' pockets are empty (such as every January). You don't overcompensate for the lull by thrusting yourself on everyone. You want to stay in peoples' minds, of course, but you'd better not harass them. That's why freebies and the idea of discount coupons in the Showcase are a good idea. Give a little. What you get back in customer loyalty will make a big difference. Just as there's folks that I won't buy from, there's folks that I return to occasionally to see their collection, specifically because of what I've seen them give to our community. Such as Mr. PhilC. Take care; Chas