I've been using Poser since v2., and am starting to question the future of Poser....mainly, does it have one! The fact that CL is very scarce in the forums, makes me think that the last SR patches are the last we'll hear from them. I know that DAZ is working on a "Poser like" program, but again, where does this leave CL/Poser? Not to mention that a lot of the Poser staff was released awhile ago. I would appreciate the knowledge/insight of you wonderful folks here. Thanks

Sorry to disappoint, but anything that anyone says is compelte and utter speculation. You will start getting people jumping in with the "Daz Studio is the greatest thing since Jesus" even though none of them have used it extensively for any amount of time (and those who have seen it saw only glimpses), and then others whining/bitching/moaning about how poor "Poser 5 is crap" and then the few who seem to have little to no problems with P5. What is comes down to is noone knows exactly what the future holds for P5 from CL. CL has not said anything, which can be interpreted either way - maybe they are working desperately to right things with present and future customers or maybe they are quietly locking up the doors and planning to throw away the key. Daz Studio is an unknown quantity. The initial released will have limited functionality, when compared to Poser. However, they have promised future upgrades/modules/plugins that will provide more functionality, although NONE OF THESE EXTENSIONS HAVE BEEN SHOWN OR ACTUALLY USED BY THE COMMON PUBLIC, so anything anyone says regarding these are heresay. It may be great, it may suck more than Monica Lewinsky. Why knows. Noone here, that is for sure. - Ray

None of us poor users have any "hard" knowledge, but then we do lots of guesswork instead. Some of this guessing can be quite fascinating. IMHO, the Poser idea is decades ahead of its time, and it IS the future, no matter what particular app may express it. Why? Well... Poser may not get to version 6, but unless DAZ goes out of business, there will be a DAZ Studio sooner or later - they need SOME Poser-like application for people to use the stuff they make for a living ;o) More generally, the trend in 3D stills and movies seems to be towards more use of pre-made content from many different sources (unless you're ILM and can afford the time and talent to make everything from scratch). A few key developments that may interest you : o More and more companies on the web sell ready-to-use figures, models, movements, sounds etc. Any app that allows easy integration and use of all this stuff will be attractive. o The "machinima" (www.machinima.com) concept is sort of a "real-time Poser" method of making movies using the pre-built figures, sets and moves in a games engine, and "filming" while you go through the game. More and more games producers include machinima-oriented tools. o In the latest issue of 3DWorld (www.3dworldmag.com), Michael Besner of Kaydara (www.kaydara.com) prophesies that the next big development challenge and opportunity for 3D app makers will be to "drastically simplifying the 3D tools without sacrificing the control or quality of animation [...] to develop tools that will compel artists and hobbyists to use 3D in everyday storytelling". That's sorta what Poser and DAZ has been doing for all of us here at R'osity for years ;o) o Steve Cooper (formerly) who's one of the key people behind Poser actually pointed out this tendency when Poser 5 came out (check the manual's "Message from Steve Cooper"). o In the same issue, industry legend Alvy Ray Smith (www.alvyray.com) prophesies that "images [...] will be streaming out of computers in real time soon. [...] I suspect the artist's job will be more aabout editing the flow." The Poser idea is precisely to provide an app that integrates and simplifies the tech stuff, allowing the creator to concentrate on ... well, creation ;o) The diehard do-it-all-yourself-from-scratch guys are dinosaurs already. Just lean back and let the future hit'em. Will that future will be called "Poser" or something else? Well, frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn ;o)

Hi, The Curious Labs team definitely has been working on the current and future development of Poser. It may be more evident to other user's having just seen the Macintosh OS-X release along with the collaborative development to produce Poser 5 plug-in products; now available for 3D Max and Maya. At Siggraph just this month, we were able to show this first hand. And for those who may not have received our monthly News letters, we are continuing not only Poser product development across the board, but expect at least 2 or more Poser 5 plug-in releases. We haven't made the public statements of the exact details for future products or what were planning as of yet however, for the same reasons many were explained earlier this year. Until plans can be detailed in fact with expectations that are as firm as possible in software development, we don't want to run a bunch of hype just for the sake of talking about our plans. I think more people are frustrated by hype in the long run rather than thoughtfully planned news of communication. In any case, I believe you will find the Poser product to be around a very long, long, time regardless of how other products are developed or released. With kind regards, Katherine Howard

Since you're there Katherine (may I call you Katherine ?), I'd like to ask wether these plug-ins will be to augment the creative power of Poser itself (such as plug-ins to make landscapes, skies, etc...) or to augment its cross compatibility with other programs (LW, Vue, DAZ studio, ...) ?

Curious Labs, Thank you ever so much for chimeing in. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I feel a little better just knowing that you are still there, and hard at work. Please know, that I will not repay your kindness by asking a bunch of questions that you are not at liberty to answer. I will be happy just knowing that development continues. Again, thanks for your reply and best wishes to you all.

Hi Compiler, I'd be more inclined to say that these will be heavier on the side of cross compatibilities -- but I'm not equipped with enough knowledge on the details as of yet to say what full scope of these releases will be. I'd rather to be clearer when I have these facts more firm. Kind regards, Katherine

I agree with Katherine - P5 OSX has restored my faith in CL and I think it bodes quite well for the future of the company for both platforms. But I do wish that CL would offer a cross-grade deal for Mac owners of P5 to buy P5 PC. Best; Dan

Thanks for your answer Katherine. That's what I feared...

Thank you Jlbrown907, I definitely understand the want to know. And I do enjoy being able to update people about things ahead but we have learned long ago that it's better to only talk about plans that are close to an official announcment. Software development can seem like a separate personality within itself. With a product like Poser, it takes a lot of creativity and hard work which can too difficult to pre-announce. But, we will keep updates coming through our News letters and website along with forum posts as much as possible. Kind regards, Katherine

Hi Compiler, I'm afraid your response is what I feared in even posting a reply. Please take into consideration what I wrote and that I am not someone with the full scope of details on what the plug-in products will provide. I think it's a natural expectation that a plug-in provides increased compatibiliy, but until I personally see the product spec'ed out - I can not answer the increased feature offering of any future product. Maybe I should have said that more clearly - that I don't honestly know as of yet. Kind regards, Katherine

No problem Katherine, I understand that you cannot know everything nor promise anything for the moment. Since I don't use any other 3D program, the augmented cross compatibility will be useless to me (at least it appears so at the moment). I would rather have had a new "room" to play with : something like a landscape and skies room, or a tailor room, ... But it's just a selfish thought of mine. Just keep up the good work, we'll follow.

Hi Dan, Check back on our web site for cross-grade details. I think you will feel better about this, this week. Kind regards, Katherine

Firstly, it is good to hear that news of CL's demise has been greatly exaggerated. Second, in response to 'thip', with whom I agree for the most part, there will always be a need for the "do-it-yourself-from-scratch" guys. Despite the macro advances in computers, there's still a bunch of electronics engineers painstakingly designing every nanometer of every new cpu - circuit by circuit, basic component by component. The same goes for 3D modeling. Yes, the end user may not need to do the gruntwork for each model, but the creation of such models must start somewhere. This may become more of a task for businesses rather than individuals in the future, but even then there are a myriad of circumstances where the necessary model, motion, texture, or whatnot is unavailable. The only recourse would be "do-it-yourself-from-scratch". Point at hand: I need 'antique' Japanese items (tansu, futon, tatami, noren, shoji, lanterns, bowls, trays, and so on). You find me a place to buy or download all of these items in various forms and you can have my firstborn. ;) They don't exist in any quantity (or quality in many cases). Therefore, do-it-yourself-from-scratch is the only recourse. Maybe one day there'll be an inexpensive device that can scan in all of the parts of a complex object and reconstruct it as a well-laid-out 3D model on a computer, but not anytime soon (enough)! Kuroyume

Computer Arts 87, page 18, "Coming soon" has "Poser 6 finally on the radar" for September (of course, they probably really mean the OS X version of 5).

Ditto Kuroyume. There's not much of a market for yet another NVIATWAS. The 3D tasks that are worth paying for, are bound to be "peculiar". When I build an animated larynx, I can be perfectly sure that no company will sell me a pair of arytenoid cartilages for any price! I have no choice but to build them from scratch.

Did someone say plug-ins to augment the creative poser of Poser? Bill

Kuroyume, et al. - please note that I wrote "do-it-ALL-yourself-from-scratch". There's a crucial difference - content providers that build new stuff will always be needed. At least I hope so, I'm a clothesmaker myself ;o) My point is that apps like Poser allows anyone to concentrate on what they like best, and get everything else "outsourced" via Poser's superb capabilities for integration. The "storytelling" point is that there are many more people who want to do pics and movies than there are people who have the tech/artistic training to create all the figures/props/etc. by themselves. And even those who do, do not have the TIME to do it all themselves, if they want to finish their pic this year or their movie in this decade ;o) Since we all devour masss quantities of pics and movies (ask the desperate TV channels how hard it is to keep up with demand for new content!!!), the release of all the untapped potential is not only artistically exciting - it's also a very exciting business opportunity. That's probably why Kaydara is keen to make everyone aware of the trend ;o)

All I have to say is it's nice to see Curious Labs is still out there. Kinda scary to think a program with so much potential will just vanish!!

Attached Link: http://www.naturalmotion.com

I think poser has a future provided we continue to buy (and use) poser content, when that stops, poser is an evolutionary dead end, take a look at the following site for details, then think that half-life 2 (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/)will be modable, and this is a game with full face character animation, a full physics model, etc. All of which should kickstart the machinamata crowd no end, (http://www.machinima.com) The source engine is going to be scriptable, the characters can be modified and skinned, then there's Sims2 to reckon with... (http://thesims.ea.com/us/sims2/sims2_pressrelease.html) I think that given there are so few poser animators around, that poser will continue to be a "2D" 3D app, back in the real world however, technology is leaving us far, far, behind, these are games that do this in real time, all in full 3D, there are no render times. I'll be with Poser/Studio for as long as it lives, but technologically we were left behind a couple of years ago. later jb

I have to say that I consider all guesses at poser's future to be pure speculation. The only reason I read this thread was because I saw CL's post. And the only reason I'm posting is to say 'Great to hear a CL voice in the forum again!' Good deal. mac

Hi Katherine I have Poser5, I was in contact with Lori about sending me a CD with with the followin on it. Unfortantly I can't download them. 1)Poser5 Service Release 3 - Application Updater 2)Poser5 Service Release 3 - Figures Updater 3)Poser5 Service Release 3 - Readme It has been months now and I haven't received anything, I sent Lori several E-mails recently, but I received no reply. I really would appreicate being able to run the program. The is not a bash CL note. I know everyone has worked hard to to fix the problems, I would just like to use the program, could you please see what you can do. Thank you for you help.

Katherine If you send me an IM or E-mail I'll send you the necessary information.

urrr.... the creative poser of Poser ...should be... the creative power of Poser Slaps head Bill

Poser has a future as long as people keep using it ...

Hi Philywebrider, I'll get in touch with you to get your details. We don't have a Lori - but do have a Tori so I'll follow up with her as well. We'll get you the needed CD so you can start using Poser! Kind regards, Katherine

Hi y'all! Strange this hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread... What the blue blazes is 'Poser Artist'? Are we all gagging or am I the first to see the reference in Marc's schpiel? H:))

I think that Poser still has a future, and I am also very interested to see the release of D|S. I feel that both applications will be useful for different things (though I'm willing to bet that DAZ will eventually incorporate Mimic directly as a D|S plugin, rather than a Standalone app) If anything, I think that the rise of D|S will promote some healthy competition between the two developers, which almost always leads to a better overall product available to the customers.

But what is Poser Artist?

"untill they make good on the promise they made for Poser5, "A new application built fromt he ground up", I think it's time to look elsewhere" I don't think they ever will. Hell, they won't even touch the core to fix easy glitches, let alone rebuild the thing. That angers me, that and all the glitz added to 5 with no substance. But what angers me the most are the lies and deception preceding the release. I was hoping for better treatment from the new team but they still won't come out and be open about any updates to the actual program; they just ignore all questions about it. This behavior doesn't bode well for their future; you can't keep treating your customers like idiots, they don't like it. And they can't just keep adding more glitz to a faulty, old program...P5 is proof of that. Many have found out the added weight crashes the program; others will find out as they work more with it. Some will never find out because they don't use it to those extents but there aren't enough of those to keep CL in business, IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Poser and CL are alive today only because they have no competition. But it's coming, so CL is going to have to actually DO something with the core, either hire someone who can rebuild it, sell it off, or dump it altogether. DISCLAIMER: All of this, of course, is just my opinion.

Hi, Poser Artist is currently the Poser 4 product. Poser 4 is still widely used and requested within the K-12 adademic marketing but -- the [ackaging images on the previous Poser 4 were a little to graphic for this educational market. The future development for Poser Artist is to offer an entry level Poser product that offers a lower learning curve for new and academic users who then can upgrade to the professional type of Poser product with Poser 5 and onward versions. Hope this makes sense. Kind regards, Katherine

Thanks Katherine - I'll watch for it! Dan

I think that the rise of D|S will promote some healthy competition between the two developers Personally, I'm hoping that both can come to use a standadised plugin format and that one or both will release an SDK. For instance, some things I'd like to see, whether included in a package or as plugins: Perl support: You have Python there, but I don't program Python, and I'd like to be able to script things without needing to learn a second language. Postwork Displacement: It's theoretically possible to use the concept ot a bumpmap not only to change highlighting or displace the mesh, but to determine angles with which to 'smudge' the output in seperate, object-based layers automagically, to allow for a low density mesh to be given a high quality displacement effect based on a bumpmap. COnsider that in a standard postwork/painting program like Photoshop one can seperate out a layer and 'smudge' it or displace it based on a map, and it's only a flat bitmap at that point. Theoretically, postwork displacement maps could be full colour with value (brightness) indicating height/depth, and colour indicating direction. Displacement (postwork or true) masking. Being able to mask displacement based on another map so that two maps combined can be used. Omnidirectional lights. Nuff said. 'Shaped' lights. Basically omnis or directional lights that take a given shape, like flourescent light tubes. Alternately, the ability to make an object actually glow, rather than simple ambience, such that it illuminates other things. These would be the same concept approached from different angles. Radiosity (the concept, not the renderer) capability. A shader like the 'Illustrate!' shader for Max. Something that can do comic-book style and maybe even comic-book quality drawing.

Funny how someone ALWAYS has to take a Poser5/Curious Labs discussion and chime in with a 'Why Daz Studio will be so cool' and 'Why I hate Poser5' Wasn't the original question 'where does that leave CL/Poser' I mean free speech is one thing, but free repeating messages I can do without.

Personally, I'm hoping that both can come to use a standadised plugin format and that one or both will release an SDK. Poser currently ships with a Python API, which offers most functions of the Poser SDK (which can be licensed from Curious Labs). The Python scripting host offers enough functionality not only for custom im/exporters but also for more complex plugins as MKParticles or Ockham's deforming collision detection have proven. Also, I have a plugin in the works that uses 3Delight for background rendering in Poser 5. The product page of DAZ|Studio talks about Python plans too, but it doesn't say if the application's API will be compatible to Poser.

CL wrote: "Poser Artist is currently the Poser 4 product. Poser 4 is still widely used and requested within the K-12 adademic marketing but -- the [ackaging images on the previous Poser 4 were a little to graphic for this educational market. The future development for Poser Artist is to offer an entry level Poser product that offers a lower learning curve for new and academic users who then can upgrade to the professional type of Poser product with Poser 5 and onward versions." Aha! This recalls the thread a few months ago by Jim Burton and myself on a design for Poser 4.5, which is essentially Poser 4 with the bugs removed (a list was provided) plus better library handling (all you need is nested folders), and without all the added features in Poser 5 (dynamic hair etc) that are useless to many users. If Poser Artist is akin to this, I will be very interested and so will many others. If it is just Poser 4 with different box art, forget it.

So we have "artist" & P5, wither the P4 pro-pack? Or is that being dicontinued? later jb

"The future development for Poser Artist is to offer an entry level Poser product that offers a lower learning curve for new and academic users who then can upgrade to the professional type of Poser product with Poser 5 and onward versions. Hope this makes sense." Does this mean that Poser 4 and Propack will be eliminated? What you will have is a dumbed down "...entry level..." Poser Product and "...upgrade to the professional type of Poser product with Poser 5 and onward versions"

Poser Artist does sound intriging. But it shouldn't saddle people with .rsr and .bum files.

praxis22- looks like we were thinking the samething.

Philywebrider - "entry level" is not necessarily dumbed down. If the original Poser 4.5 post by Jim is still around, you will see the point that Poser 4 is very much more accessible to the new user than Poser 5. There is very much a use for Poser 4, not reduced or dumbed down, but merely polished up a bit. Also, for anyone using Poser as a source of figures for rendering in other applications, and there are a lot of us, Poser 5 is a sledgehammer for a walnut. It would be shortsighted of CL to ignore this sector of the market, especially when a little polish would improve the usability of Poser 4 enormously. Some of the improvements needed would take as little as one line of code!