What happened? I used to be the only one griping about this and that, now it's spreading like wildfire. Needless to say that I read Ornlu's post -I didn't notice it before. But no, this isn't going to be about that as much as some of my general observations about this community.

The Renderosity community is tame. I've said this before, I'll say it again, compared to other forums on the internet, this place is about as tame as a wild buffalo, after being barbecued. People here actually read and follow the Terms of Service. People here actually take care not to post profanity and mask it with silly little stars and what not. People here are tame. It's incredible, I don't know where it comes from, either from a large influx of an actually mature audience, or the nazi mods that frequent these boards and reduce us all to silence shakes fist at Agent Smith :D

Kidding. It's obviously the former. Strange though, because when you consider the amount of kazaa-induced renders available out there, the simplistic renders of some upteen thousand dollar software packages done by people who seem to have obviously and barely broken out of the puberty stage, you start thinking... Is it really that tame? Of course, one could not compare the vitality and maturity of the true artists of this community with the weak attempts at garnering attention from some 12 year old, neither in their work nor in their postings, but it seems to me that a connection DOES exist. And it's simple, as far as I'm concerned.

I've been browsing the internet for the better part of the last 6 years. I've seen things that should not be allowed into the daylight, I grew up with the internet on my side, and at 20 years of age, I can actually say that the internet poses little suprise to me, no matter how gruesome, or ugly, or funny something one of you might show me will be. I have been a member of countless forums, where flaming was the mot-du-jour, where christian morals represented the only way out of binary damnation (remember, IRC eats babies!), and I've seen more moderate forums. They all share a common facet:

"We are discreet sheep; we wait to see how the drove is going, and then go with the drove." - Sam Clemens

And it is true. The fate of a community is 99.9% in the hands of its users, of its members. Mind you, Renderosity is FAR from being safe from the perils of flaming and name-calling and other idiotic mindsets that usually lead to a path of destruction, both for the community, and for the generally weak friendships that are carved out of binary. But we're discreet sheep and we go with the drove.

My point is simple. I've seen a lot of communities fall apart because of the inability of its members to get together and agree upon something, or to set transparency to the issues that are affecting it. Renderosity, in my opinion, lacks a lot of the transparency that generally accompanies -one would surmise- an artist community where freedom of speech and expression are pilons for the lingua franca.

Renderosity is where it is because of Bondware. Renderosity will not stray aware from Bondware, because Bondware owns Renderosity. Renderosity will not accept anything that might come as a threat to Bondware. Vicky panties for 5 dollars in the online store? Sure, forget real art and what this site should stand for, porn revenues drive the internet. Maybe I'm harsh. I confess I have no clue as to how to make Vicky panties. I don't really care for it, actually. I don't mind the people who make Vicky's panties, I don't mind the 12 year olds that download them off Kazaa or manage to use them in their great attempts for medium-hardcore, whatever... I mind the fact that an issue like this lacks transparency, that the freedom Renderosity offers to those who sell binary porn could easily be extended to those who serve the site by offering their actual ART.

That's my opinion. Want the community to grow and to lose the chaff of wankers who get their friends to vote their pictures into the hot20, to forget about the thousands of fake accounts that are being made regularly for the same sort of self-serving, attention-grabbing purpose? Speak out against it, tear the house down if you have to, and scream j'accuse! where blame is to be deserved.

A community fails because individuals -and generally select minorities don't get to be heard out, because it gets eaten from the inside.

When I read what Clay stated in that thread about the site not being perfect, and that we should all get used to the way it is, I remembered the many times I've seen moderators post the same thing. It's more than being a glorified street cleaner, it's the job of accurately and forcefully representing the views of those members who look up to you for the issues they consider just. A community isn't built by antagonizing each other, certainly, especially this late in its life, but it sure as hell is better off when people speak their mind.

Mihnea

Well spoken, Drac. From what I read, I agree wholeheartedly. I'd offer up more opinion, but I think you pretty much covered it. MD

That whole battle I was personally in a couple of weeks ago was kinda rough, not knowing if members would side with me or with the other...but after much discussion, people got the steam out there and it was taken care of, albeit around 100 posts to do it, but still...it felt good to have a discussion about that and it turned out I had a lot of people on my (and the other 4 people's) side...I enjoyed the support and outreach in more ways than one! It should happen more often, you are right. Just as long as it's done in the right manner and in the right medium (IM, forum, etc.) MD

A very eloquent speech Drac and I too must agree with you. People come here and rant from time to time because this is a safe environment to do so, and who better to rant to than the folk you communicate with every day. It doesn't happen often but I think it is a nesessary evil and as long as it doesn't overstretch the bounds of decency it is a good thing. Catlin

Speaking ones mind and being able to express opposing views is a totally acceptable thing. Its called debate. Flaming and name calling are not aceptable. My brains a bit tired today so I can't grasp all of Drac's points. Just felt like expressing myself. :-D Angela

(Steps out of the darkness, but just enough so that the daylight doesn't touch his now transparent skin for fear of bursting into flames) Hey all. Very well stated, Drac, and I know the reason why act the way we do towards each other in this forum regardless of whether or not one of us has gone off on a wild rant about something. It's because we respect each other and that goes a long way. I guess you could say, that what "friends" do. Stay say everyone. BOOM

Well said, Mihnea. I was amazed about Clays statement "this is my forum". Well, for me AgentSmith is the moderator here, and AS does a great job. He's like a friend and advisor and moderates in a way nearly everybody can go along very well with. I say 'nearly' because you can't satisfy anyone. ;) In that locked thread, I took notice of Clay the first time since I'm here. And I see a moderator who insults members and claims that forum to be 'his' property. Well... Two things: that forum lives with and from his members. It is build by members' postings, and a moderator needs to be there for sure, but he does 'own' a shit of it. Second: sure it was the wrong place to rant, Ornlu made a mistake. But that was no big mistake, and I understand him very well. Renderosity does not have the market because they are so friendly. Renderosity makes money with that and therefore is a partner of the merchant. They take whopping 40% (or so?) of the money to host the item. So Ornly can expect that they find a workaround for his problem, but not by deleting the item twice. 'nuff said - the first part was more important for me. AgentSmith, keep up your fantastic work here. And I hope that I don't have to read more of that Clay-ish "moderation" statements mentioned above. Take care, Jimi

It's interesting for me to read your post this time, Drac. What the hell happened to YOU? That's the most mature and intelligent thing any member has posted here for a long time! I really enjoy your deep thoughts on this matter... I don't know Clay very well, and although it seems like he's a silly monkey at times, he is a great artist and, check this out : He's a Human! Maybe he had a rough day? I don't care. I'm 27 years old, I've heard people curse before, and I guarantee that by the time my work day is over I am going to say "Fuck" at least 1,000 times. I'm going to start right now. (outloud) I've slandered you before Drac, but believe it or not I love your work and appreciate being able to learn from you. I am not a professional Brycer, but I am a professional artist, and Bryce is just one of my many brushes. In all matters at this Renderosity ultra-sight (grins), I lean toward conservatism only because I don't know any of you personally. I try and keep my comments and critiques respectful, because none of you deserve the ridiculous text-lashing that lives in my (evil) mind. But I think you are right, Drac. Too much buckling, and not enough honesty, will reap no gains. I think we all just need to keep our minds on the ART we are working on, and be as honest and direct about it as possible. If I let my ego get into things, nobody here would like me at all, since it's ridiculously out of control. Thus, my preposterous screen name! Keep typing your mind, your thoughts, Drac, Jimi, everyone. Even Clay should be able to rant and slander people, if he gets too obnoxious he can easily be removed as a moderator. Most of us are big boys and big girls, and anyone who lets simple text ruin their day deserves to be ruined, if you ask me. May you all find water and shade today...

Maybe you're right and he had a bad day, Shadowdragonlord. And he has the right to like any other member here for sure. I just was shocked to read his opinion and reaction. Perhaps I am wrong with my opinion about him. Well, time will tell... :-)

Okay, who is this 'Drac' and what did you do with the real Drac? J/K, I have to say that is the most eloquent post I've ever seen here and that Drac has made some valid points. Nothing gets accomplished with out of control ranting, alot gets done when we discuss things rationaly and offer up creative solutions... However, being humans we all have bad days, and need to vent, maybe because of our situtations we can't do it anywhere except in the forum, maybe we just need to know we're not the only ones that feel the way we do, but here, we can rely on the support of our peers, other artists. As to the marketplace, well, everyone has the right to make a living, whether it's for extra spending cash or to pay the rent, and if making Vickie panty's is your thing, hey.......;]

I agree with what Drac posted and with some of the other members post too. While I have been a member for only a little while and have not posted very many messages to the board, I am glad that I can post my concerns, comments and if I actually managed to finish a piece of artwork I will post that also. I have read many of the posts and check the site daily and in this time I have come to the conclusion that the Bryce community here is open and receptive. Sure I understand that somepeople need to rant to blow off steam from time to time, and it is understandable that arguments will errupt, but, the really good thing i have seen is that nobody carries a grudge. When the arguement is over the community moves on. Just my two cents. :)

I just have to say Drac that your post is very intelligently thought out and eloquently put. I agree with what you have stated as I do with most of what everyone else has stated as well.... I reacted quite rashly at one of Drac's rants once and that was the last time. I have come to see that Drac isn't someone that is just pissed off at the world but that he really has some genuine concerns that affect him personally ,as do we all, and he feels a need to voice his concerns. From time to time we all have things like this come up and Drac is one of those people that needs to say what is on his mind, as did Ornlu yesterday. Nothing wrong with that. Individuality.... there is nothing like it. 8) It is human to get upset sometimes. It takes a mature individual to be forgiving. This forum is one of the most forgiving forums I have ever encountered on the internet. I respect everyone here that is willing to hear people out and let people blow off some steam and not hold grudges. I will get off my soap box now and I just want to say that I am very glad to know all of you. Thanks for the excellent message you posted Drac. It was quite refreshing to read. 8D Wade

Well, Drac, as usual, you've given me something to think about. Without thinking, my first response was: "good point." And then I thought. And left it alone for a bit. And thought some more. And here is what I have to say. You're 20 years old. You're still an idealist. Sure, it's refreshing to hear someone "speak their mind". But there are degrees. There are always degrees. To speak your mind, sometimes you have to mind your speak. Basically--watch not only what you say, but how you say it. I could speak my mind. I could say to you: "You acted like a child when Renderosity wouldn't let you advertise the IRC." I could say to Ornlu: "You acted like a child when Renderosity didn't get your file to the marketplace like you want." And, what does that accomplish? Does it give you any insight? Does it help you realize anything useful? No, not especially--it just makes people defensive. Sometimes it's a wake-up call, but usually, it's just inflammatory. I've spoken my mind, but accomplished nothing. Now, if I say, "yes, you are frustrated by what is happening, and these are some of the causal factors and these are some of the choices you have and these are some of the consequences" then perhaps you say "hmmm, I hadn't thought of that, perhaps I'll consider it." And maybe, just maybe, you think a bit, and you learn something (hopefully, about yourself). In a way I've "said" the same thing--but the message I convey is very different. Hopefully, I have accomplished something. I love this community. As Boomer stated, it's about friends. I've never actually met one of you, but I respect your views and opinions, and over the months I've gotten to "know" many of you. So, when someone has a bad day, and goes off on a rant, we can let them. We can support them and say "sure, you're right, I understand." But, as friends, we are also obligated to say "stop whining, and see that it's not all about the universe being against you personally, and this is what you might do about it." That is what a true friend should do do--sure, you provide support, but you also need to help people grow. And to grow, we need to be challenged. We need that "honesty" that shadowdragonlord was talking about. And, I guess somehow that comes back to "speaking your mind". By doing so, we challenge people. I suspect, on some level, that was what Clay was trying to accomplish. Is this "his" forum? No, of course not. No more than it belongs to AgentSmith, me, or you. This forum belongs to everyone who comes and makes themselves a part of it. And speaking your mind can take many different forms. It can be a 'flame' (like we have seen several examples of in the past month). Or, it can be something that we can learn from. It's all degrees of the same thing. There will always be change. People will come and go. I've looked at some of the past monthly challenges, and there are names there that I haven't heard in ages, and there are lots of names now that weren't here before. And that change, that flux, will always occur. It's happening before our eyes right now. For example, Ornlu will be heading off to college, and will have lots less time. And, when he does have time, he'll be different. It couldn't be otherwise--life changes each of us as we pass through it. And, when and if he does return, who will be here then? We will still be here? Will there be some other young hotshot who knows it all? Will there be someone who has found a way to take Bryce even further? Will Bryce 6 be here by then, and with it a whole new community of users? Time will tell. Is Renderosity tame? Is it a different level of maturity? I'm not certain. What I am certain of, is that people are learning. This post is proof of that. Sometimes, you think you've learned something about someone when, in truth, you've learned something about yourself.

Very well spoken mloates.

Well said mloates..............8)

In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing my stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now.

I've just returned from a business trip, on which I've been totally isolated from renderosity. What was the source of this message? Not knowing exactly what's going on here, I feel I must congratulate Drac on one of his most mature, and reasonable "rants" and "rant" is not correct. I've seen a lot of flaming here, but I've also witnessed a lot of thought, concern and respect. Drac accuses 'rosity as being tame, I counter that we're are civil. Most of our discourses occur with calm words and deep thoughts. So many forums are nothing more than an opportunity to display one's knowledge of expletives. I can swear a blue streak at my officers, but if I want change, I have to contribute information. I don't, as I said, know of the context of Clay's statement, and AS is conspicuous by his absence, but I'm willing -- based on past performance -- to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I believe mloates expressed this best. And Boomer, you're correct... we are all friends. (and to you, particularly, stay safe...) NB