cherokee69, If you perform a search on the Poser Forum for Victoria 3, you will find a bunch of links to a message titled "Preliminary Victoria 3 renders (with Daz's permission)" [12/16/02-12/17/02] and its replies. Follow any of the links and it will take you to the message in the Product Showcase forum, even though the links were found by doing a search in the Poser forum. Why? Because the post was moved from the Poser forum to the Product Showcase forum. If I am remembering correctly, this was the first post related to Victoria 3 or a Victoria 3 product, The practice is not new. It is just happening a lot with the M3 posts, because we are seeing a lot of posts previewing M3 and M3 products. I don't remember the same thing happening with V3. Now, can we all stop beating this dead horse? :)

Xena, LOL! - everybody knows that boobs are soft and round-ish while pecs are square-ish and firm therefore if they are round and droopy like M2, they must be boobs! If they are firm, angular and only slightly jigggly they are pecs (except for Pamela Anderson) so these M3 bulges definitely look more masculine than anything I have yet seen on M2.

The Victoria 3 posts got moved, the Michael 3 posts got moved, the Milcat posts got moved, the .... do I need to go on? Yes as soon as the forum moderator comes online the forum is checked. Funny how that works grin DAZ posts its preview threads in the showcase and has caused no ruckus about it. Why other people can't follow their lead is beyond me ... Lyrra the Evil Galactic Overlord

Lyrra, Thank you for moving this one too. Drax and you other merchants, STOP IT!!! You are making some of us incredibly sick and tired of your constant attempts to shove yet another ad for your products under our noses in the Poser Forum when there is an established place here in Product Showcase. You know what you are doing. You are doing it deliberately. You are cheating and finangling and whining when you get caught. A six-year-old eventually learns and obeys the rules or heads into a lifetime of crime. So how about growing up and playing the game by the rules? Carolly

End of the month... women are on a rampage.. all men beware.

Carolly, before you go pointing fingers, why don't you turn around and look at what you're pointing a finger at... I posted this thread to show people what could be accomplished with michael 3.0. This community, and the artwork it generates, and the majority of the products which bring revenue into this site and others are based upon DAZ's Millenium products. They're practically the cornerstone of the entire Poser community. I didn't promote any product, other than Michael 3 itself. I was of the opinion that because knowledge of what DAZ is making available with Michael 3 is of interest to the entire community, and as such, being of interest to the entire Poser community, belonged int he forum for the Poser community, not in the Product Showcase, especially considering threads recently asking about Michael 3.0. Now, please, read back over my post and tell me honestly that I ever said I'm doing this MOR pose as a product? Where at all I was trying to promote my own release? You can't, because there isn't one. I jsut said this is a MOR pose I'm working on that I thought the community would wanht to see so that they knew what was in store with Michael 3.0, because in case you forget, there are still a lot of people who barely realise the Showcase exists... but we've been over that one..... I am not cheating anything... I was not deliberately breaking the rules, so please stop presuming to place words into my mouth and intentions into my brain. I try to provide the community with soemthing that may be of interest of them because it is related to the cornerstone of the community aqnd I get bitched at for it, being screamed at for apparently acting like a child? Once again. I NEVER promoted my products in this thread. End of discussion. Case closed, jury dismembered. Sheesh.

Drax, You can keep your nasty-grams to yourself. I archived the IM upon receipt and will do so for anything else. Now to the points.... "Once again. I NEVER promoted my products in this thread. " Your very first post mentioned MUSCLEBOUND MIKE! It was in teensy letters, but it was a reminder to all and sundry that *you are the maker of Musclebound Mikes. A whisper calls attention to itself, and what you want (an assumption based upon the way you keep bragging about having advance access to the model) is attention. Enjoy it. We are not blind. We are not stupid. We don't suffer from memory loss. You could have written it backwards and in purple and it still would have bludgeoned us with your advertising prowess... once again. Your images clearly have your logo pasted on them to clearly distinguish your products (you yourself pointed to it). And you have made us excruciatingly aware that this is a product in beta, that you are a DAZ-brokered merchant, and given us everything but the date and price, both of which are out of your control. "This community, and the artwork it generates, and the majority of the products which bring revenue into this site and others are based upon DAZ's Millenium products. They're practically the cornerstone of the entire Poser community." Aren't you being just the weeist bit egocentric? There are other products by other merchants, and other marketplaces, and a great many artists here at Renderosity who don't even use Poser, much less DAZ models. As much as I respect DAZ, I'd never imply that they were the holy grail of Poserdom and font of all which is blessed, and I certainly wouldn't make that sort of claim for the subset of the Millennium models. (Please note the 2 n's... if you are going to sell them, you ought to know how to spell the word.) This community is not based upon the Millennium products. The community formed long before the first Vicky was designed. The vast majority of items for sale or free are not based upon the Millennium products. You may see only muscles and morphs from one particular product line, but what about buildings, animals, props, backgrounds, lights and all the rest of the things which may go into an image... which might not even have a Mike or Vicky, much less a sword? If you stop posting your ads in the Poser Forum, we will stop complaining about the fact that your ads are in the wrong place. Carolly

Who insulted women...?

i can sense so much love here. :/

Carolly, Musclebound Mike was used to turn heads, put apparently it turned yours into full-on Blair-exorcist mode... that's why "Musclebound" was in quotes. There IS no Musclebound Mike 3, nor will there ever be. Musclebound was one product, created before Mike 2.0 because I felt that the only alternative at the time didn't measure up. That given, there would be absolutely no reason for there to actually be a Musclebound Mike 3. The Muscle morphs out of the box are just fine. In other words, it was a BIG FAT HAIRY JOKE.

Perhaps I should have left that thread and title because it started with a line saying flat out that no, there's isn't a Musclebound Mike 3 and never will be, but I figured it was a good way to turn some heads. Then I removed that because as I said, the purpose of the post was not to advertise my own products, and that would no doubt lead people to believe that's what I was doing. The logo was to distinguish between what comes from DAZ out of the box and what wasn't. My products revolve around clothing and props made for Mike 3, so what good would showing him naked do for the sales of those products?

You, however, apparently have bred this deep seeded hatred for me and feel it necessary to presume upon the purposes of my actions without even knowing me and attack me on every opportunity. Did I say soemthing to personally offend you or did you just suddenly decide that you had a right to bludgeon people and that you were this high and mighty spokeswoman for the entire Poser community?
It is the place of the moderators, not you, to decide where the post belongs. It is the place of the moderators, not you, to judge the meaning and purpose of my post to determine whether or not it violates the rules. They felt it promoted Mike 3, so they moved it. FINE.

That does not give you card-blanch to verbally bash me on the premise that you think I was pimping my own products. I was in fact not. Choose to believe or disbelieve it, but do not attack me as you have, it is completely unwarranted, utterly childish, and completely rude.
When all is said and done, I was promoting DAZ's (which is why the moderators moved it).

Well, in a way, Drax, you can't take Carolly personally. She seems to react that strongly to many things. She's just not the most diplomatic. Kind of like MM.

Caly, I know she can react quite strongly, but there comes a time when enough is enough. It doesn't give her an excuse. Then again, at least she gathers her thoughts into one post, unlike MM. ;)

I believe the morphs are pretty nice looking. I have also learned to surf both the Poser Forum and the Product Showcase Forum - mostly 'cause of all the complaints about ads in the Poser forum. I agree that M3 and the various MilPeople (and Koshini) ARE the cornerstone of Poser right now - many if not most of the items in the Marketplace are related to a MilPerson one way or another. I think everybody who's really unhappy about forum placement needs to take a deep breath and ask themselves if it really matters in the grand scheme of things? Those who want to look at upcoming things (regardless if they will ever be on sale or not) should go to the Product Showcase, people with technical questions and the like should go to the Poser Forum. Yes, the Poser Forum is the most read, and the best way to get something in front of the most viewers. Perhaps there should be more education on using the Product Showcase forum? Then it can get more users, our merchants (and those making stuff for the heck of it) can get more eyeballs on their products, and everybody can go back to being unhappy with each other over more important stuff, like will Poser 5 ever be completely debugged? ;)

actually i am getting used to looking at the product showcase when i first come to the forums. and they said i was untrainable :P

I don't even care anymore............

play nicely folks I prefer not to delete or lock threads, but will do so if this continues to be an open flame war.

Convenient how you say this now, when you recieved my IM last night when the flaming started and allowed it to continue anyway.

...sigh... First, he is looking very nice. The muscle variations/problems will probably be a matter of choice, and a few days after he's actually released there will be a number of variations begun to expand his morphs by the great morph artists here. He looks pretty good now, give him a month and he'll look spectacular. Second, there are a few people here who tend to say things the worng way, and rub a lot of us. They usually have good intentions, but tend to, uh, state things roughly. It can be irritating sometimes. Sometimes it's best to ignore the language and scan the thread for what IS useful in it (if anything). Third, DraX doesn't seem to be promoting anything he has for sale, he's just sharing what the new morphs look like. Some of us have been awaiting M3 for a long time, and his preview is more in the way of a technical review of the figure rather than a sales boost. I know it's a fine line, but hey, it's just a thread. We don't really need WW3 over this one. Keep it in mind folks, it's just a thread. No one will starve to death because this one was in the Poser forum instead of Product Showcase. Forth: Carolly, I agree with 90% of the things you say, but boy, sometimes how you say them! Life of crime for a 6 year old? You'd get a better response and hearing if you toned it down a tad (but don't change your views, they're too good to miss). Gosh, I hope I get to post this before the thread locks. And it IS good to be home.

pdxjims, Welcome back! And, yes, I do dip my tongue in acid before typing. Since I don't put cream in my coffee, I hesitate to even guess at the pH! Carolly

Hi, I'd love to see any new body/head morphs that are available for M3! Please keep me posted on when they will be available...

hallo! i wonto know if the man are build with poser or with Morph Master Pro 2.0 Were i can download Morph Master Pro 2.0?