Simon sure seems to know what he's talking about, i've decided to just wait and see if capsces makes a boris for mike3 or for drax's great stuff, then i'll get some use out of him

they could have released both figues at the same time but it would have been in a few months from now since all the work has be done in advance .. DAZ also tries to learn from things with each model and releasing them both at the same time doesn't allow for that. Plus people would really be complaining about having to plunk down money to buy both at the same time. And do you really think that each figure for each movie is started with a box? Think about it ... The sheer amount of time needed for that is prohibitive. Final Fantasy had a lot of similarities between characters and that is the end all be all of stuff suppossedly.

Took raw obj files again from the Geometries folder. V1 and V2 look the same. There was no word of a unimesh. Then came V3...don't remember talk of a unimesh until M3. The 4th pic is the V2 obj file run throught the Hi-Res program available at DAZ. Anybody want to elaborate? I sure don't.

I'd like to point out to you that the M3toM2 figure is also the unimesh. Feel free to load up m2 and that figure and compare. My point being that the mesh can look like any human you want.

God made woman from Adam's rib.....Daz made M3 from V3's mesh. Everything's gotta start somewhere I guess :) Ernyoka1 is right....it's like molding clay. I have no problem getting masculine looks, but you can tell they're all "related".....and I think it is the eyes. But what the heck! It's just a model....designed to provide some variety to our runtimes and a few bucks in DAZ's bank account. Those who do professional film making and the like are probably paying a lot more for their meshes and not buying them at Renderosity or DAZ's online store! The mesh/maps have some issues, but DAZ will fix them, as they always do and provide a free download to correct them. I'm not sure the expectations people had are as much DAZ's fault as ours. I've noticed that people tend to get very hyped up when we hear a new product is on the horizon.....I read the posts.....a lot of conjecturing goes on and pretty soon everyone has formed an opinion before the product is ever released. The same thing will happen when DAZ Studio is finally released. Plus, no one paid a huge amount for M3. Even if you paid full price, it's still under $30! I've seen clothing for sale here more expensive than that.....and the wonderful thing about DAZ is that they will give you your money back. I can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars for new models that I don't use in any professional capacity....I would guess a lot of people are in that same boat. If DAZ started totally from scratch, I suspect the prices would have been a lot higher and then we'd all be commenting about that. So.....provide me with updates for mesh/map fixes as they're available....give me my free boots.....and I'll deal with the familial similarities :)

Sure MallenLane, here ya go...M2 and M3toM2

lol you want me to make the m2 head morph to match? Is that what you are saying? I meant the body.

Oh OK, here ya go.

now render them ;)

I'm not complaining about DAZ as a company, sure they do wonderful work, sure their prices are unbeatable but they have just made a wrong turn. Every company has their hit and misses. For what I have seen Michael 3 is a total miss and that's because of the unimesh idea. Victoria 1, 2 3, Michael 1 and 2 where original meshes and they were good meshes. Michael 3 wasn't going to break our wallets for being started from the ground up, the development costs had to be similar to the ones for Victoria 3. Going from male to female is easier, that's why Stephanie is not such a bad model, you have more vertices to play around with the shape.

Won't prove a thing because were "beating a dead horse" here.

Thats right..liking or not liking the M3 shape is subjective. It has nothing to do with the mesh's capability.

Im going to throw my two cents in here.. When M2 Came out people were screaming because he wasn;t what they thought he should be.. time passed and now he's cool. M1 I think was the same way Victoria came out and people bitched cuz she looked like a guy Victoria 2 came out and people bitched cuz they didn't like default Victoria 3 came out and people don't like the default and the unimesh Mike 3 comes out and the same argument ensues.. GUYS!!! Give him time and he will grow on you. Just like M2, M1, V1, V2, V3 He's still a kid give him a chance to grow up here... Yes there are some things wrong with him that need to be fixed.. (Shoulders are a big one..) but all in all he's worth it just for the flexibility. Screaming at daz about being..Honest that they used the unimesh is in my opinion silly. Give M3 a chance. He'll grow.

Ohh and yah i know the hairs are going into his chest.. Haven't fixed the maps yet..

Going from male to female is easier, that's why Stephanie is not such a bad model, you have more vertices to play around with the shape. Hmmm ... but if you check the original post "Does Mike 3 have Vicky 3's head?", you'll see screen shots of the actual scan data that was used for the unimesh. It was a male to begin with from the looks of it. 8-)

Attached Link: http://store.daz3d.com/Update/V3-servicerelease1.html

As pert the errors, if you guys recall, Victoria 3 was not perfect, and had a number of morph and JP changes with her service releases. The release of one of these figures is a grand scale project and DAZ is working hard to address the errors. The fixes to the errors then have to be tested before a service release can be made. Why? So that fixing one bug doesn't cause more. Despite how many people were testing this product, there's always stuff that either slips through the cracks or isn't caught until it's way too late. DAZ was forced to push back michael by 10 days... do you really think you guys would have patiently waited another ten days? Some of you would have, the rest would have complained and rioted up a storm and caused another massive controversy.

Hmmm ... but if you check the original post "Does Mike 3 have Vicky 3's head?", you'll see screen shots of the actual scan data that was used for the unimesh. It was a male to begin with from the looks of it. 8-) >> I remember reading that thread and I thought that was the data used for Michael 3 not the unimesh but I could be wrong. As I understood the male scan was just used to push the Victoria 3 model into Michael 3 shape.

Do you know anything about the new M3 updates that I and other found today to download in the Daz account..I don't see any notes and I was talking with Daz yesterday.. And I saw they changed geometry and some pp2 files too while updating .. any idea? Cath

Blah, the hurricane going on outside ( which just blew open my unlocked front door by itself), and my lack of motivation in buying that UPS lost the M3M2 head morph in progress. But here's one I made a while back. See, you can change the eyeshape; the whole skull etc. Its just that the linear nature of morphs, makes the blinks work not so well. A lot of what goes on is a combination of what you want, and whats going to blend properly with its sibling morphs.

Nice eye shapes there! Yup, we probably won't get it as bad as what you are experiencing farther down the coast, but we here in Southern New England are expecting some winds as well. Hang in there!!! All I can tell you is that my bones feel it already ;-)

I live in VA, so... its pretty howling right now = and we aren't even supposed to "get" it until tomorrow... They have the power lines rigged up with steel cables; so hopefully it stays on for msot of it.

Hmm I stand corrected I revisited the old thread showing the scans of the model and it seems that yes, there was an unimesh that indeed started before Victoria 3, Dan Farr himself says it on that thread. Then I cannot explain how the Michael 3 mesh ended up being so inferior to Mike 2.

I think it's subjective as to which is more "inferior" ... I happen to think that M3 is better than M2 as far as versatility goes. I felt that M2 was way too bulky for my liking. There is nothing wrong with liking both of them. (And I love that monkey face, Cath! LOLOL) As someone explained earlier, each model that has been released has gone through a period like this. Updates resolve the major problems. And community members also develop other morphs and such that are more specific to individual taste. Give him time, he barely has his eyes open. 8-)

if you saw the other message then you can see that they used a real male model for the unimesh.. and becuase female is always more popular and sell faster they created V3 morph figure as first..then from V3 M3 becuse feacial features are the same blind can see... and for making this more simple they don't have to much work changing the UV self.. becuase was V3 already done and the M3 was over mapped what mean mapped 2 times.. one V3 one M3 ;P but this fackt don't change anything in your art.. Cath P.S Mix;; body is original Daz m3 text..

Holy moley Cath .... holy moley! ROFL

lol. I'm having to much fun reading this. I agree with Deecey. It is VERY subjective which is "inferior". I liked M2. But it was very hard to make him look like anything other than M2. I like M3 more. It's just a preference. (And to disqualify the statement that everyone who had said something good about him brokers at Daz, I do not. ;) I'm not really sure why the wireframe was compared between V1 and V2. Still trying to figure that out. But most of the things everyone is complaining about were apparant BEFORE you would have had to purchase it. (Heck, many people started complaining from pic no one and the idea of a unimesh before Daz released him.) So why did you buy him? And if you didn't, why complain? You can still use your M2, as I am sure I will from time to time. (Can't do without Boris, lol) Yes, there seem to be a few bugs that are valid. And like everything else, I am sure Daz will fix them, if they haven't already. (Still waiting to hear why I have extra downloads, if it was a bug fix or not...) So I don't understand the need for 10,000 threads all complaining about the same things. wanders off scratching head

"So I don't understand the need for 10,000 threads all complaining about the same things." Because that's what people love to do the most... I think a lot of the people around here spend more time in the forums then they do actually working on art.

"V1 and V2 look the same. There was no word of a unimesh." I didn't see this mentioned, but I think you failed to miss a point somewhere..... Victoria 1 and 2 didn't require any mention of a Unimesh... Victoria 2 uses the Victoria 1 mesh, it's just a morphed-up version of her. Same thing with Michael 1 and Michael 2. And so what if the unimesh was started out using the Victoria 1/2 mesh as it's origin. A mesh is a mesh.... it's not a person... it can be morphed and altered, and cut and scultped. When Anton Kisiel based the boots in the Adventurers pack on the boots he had previously made for the MCFS, I didn't see anyoen bitching then.

My jaw is dropping Cath...That face is INCREDIBLE!!

I love your work, Cath. You inspire me :) Jeremy

Geez get over it already. So what if M3 came from this that or the other figure. They probably used the same spline model for v3 and m3 but took longer to get clothes out for m3. Now if both could share MTs that would be kind of cool but beyond that what's the big fuss about the original? Sounds like a real bad episode of the x-files.

I'm not a merchant, and I think M3's superior to M2. Not to say that M2 sucks, mind you. M3 is simply more versatile. I love versatility and the variety that is M3's potential. I don't think M3's too feminine at all, & I have faith that if there are actual issues, Daz will update him. THis isn't blind faith mind you, but rather based on how consistant Daz has been in the past. And WHY is it so hard to understand that M3 is NOT V3 stuffed into a guy's shape?!! Here's this lump of digital clay. I get the consistancy juuuust right. I make it look humanoid. You know, 2 arms, 2 legs, a head, certain proportions. I save it. I then continue working the clay until it's a woman and save it as V3. I still have the original clay though. I go back to that original humanoid clay and create a male. M3 is born. Their parent is the same Unimesh lump of clay. But M3 is NOT V3 in drag.

I actually understood that Caly!! :) A very good explanation for those of us who wouldn't know a mesh from a hole in the head (clay I can relate to). Great texture Cath! Holy Moly is right! And Mallenlane, I hope you kept that morph in post 70 and will make it avaialable...looks great!

Michael 3 is an inferior mesh. His shapes don't look anything like a normal man. There are lots of problems with his neck, uncommon collar bone shapes, weird union between the neck and head, far worst distortion in underarms, horrible unnatural abdominal muscle shapes, specially the upper abdominals, weird bumps where his forearms join with the biceps. This is stuff I've been able to notice from people posting little renders with circles around those areas. Come on, people I don't even own the model yet but I'm not blind! I bought Michael 2 the first day it came out and it was an AMAZING model, out of the box!!!

giving m3 the benefit of the doubt, i worked with him all day today, and every word Mitch said above is very true, deny it all you want, but it's an inferior product

DraX & Ghostofmacbeth: if anyone can "improve" the current state of M3, its both of you! Show us the potential of M3 with your morphing talents and I'll believe that the unimesh idea is a good one. And I WANT to believe! ;-p (I hope to purchase M3 before the sale ends, but will not proceed unless I see something more encouraging in his development/fixes) Catharina: where's "Brian/Bryan" for M3? Cheers!

There's potential as displayed by Cath. I will continue to use M2 for some characters while using M3 for others.

Arendar, Can't show things here since it would be deemed commercial and I am not far enough along to show them in the showcase but I am working on things :)

Ghostofmacbeth: let me know when you're done; meanwhile I'll keep the faith! PapaBlueMarlin: oh no, not another "Vanessa Redgrave" clone! Just kidding (LOL)! For myself, I would like to see M3's much touted "potential/versatility" include a convincing, good-looking bodybuilder/barbarian warrior-type character (and I'm still dreaming of an M3 Hulk), in addition to all the the slim, pretty young things that we have been seeing so far. Unfortunately, I feel that M3's current muscularity bodymorphs just don't cut it. (DraX, step on it, please!).

Sorry for later reply but I don't got any notifications before :P and I missed the final part.. lol there are many points that don't show correct.. the M3 have to much long neck as for a male shape.. his neck have a hole under his Adam apple that only women have.. his forehead is not correct and his eyebrows need to get much lower.. not to mention about his beautiful amandel fingernails :P but ok we can play with Zbrush and morphs to get him looking exact we wish.. but this standard shape have nothing to do with a male shape.. maybe his legs only.. P>S don't forget about the size of the pubic hairs they are exact as by a women..just in form of Y .. for me no matter from what he was made as only if he is made right or not and he is not right. and I learn this all in 10 years of my study..and DAZ know what I think about this..but nothing was changed.. and there is M4 on the air based on M2 so I am glad this time..hehe more later about Cath P>S thnaks for your comments.. Daz did good the body textures as well.. the back only is to much scaled and the skin of the real model..hmm need a visit by a specialist is looking little sick so not working on this while I eat my cookies :P eeeeee I know I am a pig

Yup Cath this is what I'm talking about the whole time. His neck looks like he was made from a bird...its way to long...maybe DAZ used the eagle map too ....ROFL The same for his Body....way to long for a normal male body and if you add some muscels...well M3 gets many problems. He really need to visit a specialist to get the real male shape :) I hope only they don't make this bad work on DAZ Studio what they did with M3

Mike2 truly is a work of art, his musculature is so well done, pretty amazing really..give me mike2 with more face morphs(same default face), bigger more masculine hands and feet,the ability to bulk up to HULK status, genitals like ulfs penis prop but connected to the body and many of us would be very happy

Attached Link: http://fineart.sk/page026.gif

I do agree that Mike 3's neck is a little long, I also agree about the traps but that is why there is a traps small dial and I have seen peope with long neecks and large traps so that is kind of a subjective thing. But as for his body bing too long that isn't right. Mike 2's was way out of proportion (though I do like it) and he had some short legs (also a possibility). But I did really like the fact that Mike 3 is pretty much perfectly in line with the artistic proportions scale that has been around for years and years. If you overlay that it is pretty much perfect. The head needs to be scaled up a tiny bit but all the points line up. I have included a link to it. If you show a picture of Mike 2 to most classical artists etc they always say his proportions are way off. As for Ulf's penis attached to the figure, I really wouldn't want that. No offense, but it is so out of proportion and entirely too versitile for my needs. It is good that it is out there for those that need it though.

"and there is M4 on the air based on M2 so I am glad this time..hehe more later about" Tell Us More !!!