Hi all, This is step 2 of my evermore complicated project. :) I have a base object which has been imported at the appropriate "std figure height percentage" and saved. Now, the alternate geometries must be imported properly and exported. There is a problem with getting them to the correct locations without just guessing. I have no idea what values are expected in the Offset and offsetting once in Poser (x/y/zTrans) does not seem to stick to the exported object when reimported. As this is my first time dealing with alternate geometries, have no idea what will work and what won't. They were originally exported with the proper origin and import back into the original program (C4D) with the proper origin. But, Poser seems to ignore this and places them either "on the Floor" or centers the geometry (which is not where the actual origin is). Hints, tips, pointers, tutorials, information, anything!!! ;) Thanks, Kuroyume0161

kuroyume, The best way to approach this is to start right inside your modelling app. Every app has a spot with zero coordinates, and if you import into poser using ONLY 'percentage of figure size', (in other words, with 'drop to floor' and 'center' UNchecked), the object will import in the same spot where you built it, ie. at zero. I import everything from 3d max in 3ds format, using '% of figure size', and I build everything where I want it to be in poser. So, if you build your main geometry at 0 0 0, and then all the alternate geoms in the same spot, they should all match up in poser without any translations at all. You can raise them up from the floor or move them left/right. The important thing is to do them all in one spot so they match up. It's a good habit to get into, especially when making morphs. mac

If you object is going to be a prop, all you have to do is save it as a prop by clicking one of the +'s in the props library. Each time you load it from the prop library it will remain in the same position and the same size. But, it will always read the size change and oriention changes in the parameter dials. If you are going make it a figure or make a prop to with position at zero and and size at one hundred percent and still have all your changes in effect....... Steps........ Import your object and get it sized and possitioned where you want it. "Click" the grouping tool (little grey square in the editing tool bar). Click Delete group to get rid of the eronious group names that may already be there(you dont need to do this, but if you don't you may get confused later). Then click New Group and give the group any name you like. Then click Add All, the whole object should turn red now. Then click Spawn Props, this will make a duplicate object exactly the same size in the same location of the original. Close the Group Edit tool and go back to normal screen. Destroy the original!!! The new object that you made when you "Spawned Props" should still be there, if not then you messed up somewhere. Stop! if you are going to save it as a prop, then save it here as a prop, go no further. Now......go the to export and save as an obj (most poser friendly format). When you get to the Hierarchy Selection, click everything off, universe, ground, objects, everything! Then click and select only that object you want to export (it will be named exactly the same name you have it in the group editor when you Spaned Prop. Still with me, ??? Good, Save it now with another name. Edit a cr2 to load it and you have it as a figure and thats a whole other tutorial. hope i didnt miss a step marty

maclean, that is exactly what I mean when I say that the origin has been set for the alternate parts. The base geometry and alternate geometries have the same origin (0,0,0) that would put them together exactly where they were. And this is how they reimport back into C4D: in their proper places. But Poser was NOT doing this. But I see that you say to uncheck both "center" and "place on floor". That seems to work! :)

Insomniaworks - I know this is going to sound like a stupid question, but what is the difference between a prop and a figure? I mean, why would I want to make.....say a hammer model....a figure instead of just just leaving it as a prop? (This is assumming that the hammer has no moving parts (joints,...) Thanks JB

Easy answer: Figures differ from props in several ways, not just moving parts. You can't use alternate geometry with a prop. You can't use MAT poses with a prop. You can't parent props to props (well, there is a way, but it's not guaranteed at all). My "prop" involves both MAT poses and alternate geometry. Therefore, it must be a figure.

One last question....I promise. what do you mean by "alternate geometry"? Thanks for the education. I appreaciate your help.

Alternate geometry, geometry swapping as the process is sometimes called, has to do with the ability to exchange parts of a base figure with other parts just by using a dial. This is sort of a poor man's morph where discreet changes are more relevant than gradual transitions between a default and fully-morphed form. Let's say you have a Poser figure that is a car and you want to be able to change the type of hubcaps, tires, body, seats, maybe have the ability to add a hood scoop or blower, tailpipes, etc. In this case, you don't want to morph between variations in some of these, you just want to change the type totally. Instead of making a different car model for each variation (or going thru the complex morph creation process), you just make the base car model and other models that represent part variations (such as several variations of body). Your car model has many body parts listed and in the CR2 file these are listed as 'actors'. Inside each actor, you put in a set of "alternateGeom" sections which each point to an alternative OBJ file to the base geometry OBJ file used for that part of the car. This looks like this: alternateGeom body_FunnyCar { name Funny_Car objFile 1001 ":Runtime:Geometries:Car:funnycar.obj" } alternateGeom body_MuscleCar { name Muscle_Car objFile 1002 ":Runtime:Geometries:Car:musclecar.obj" } etc... Inside the Channels section, in order to change from one geometry to another, you add a special dial: geomChan bodyGeom { ... name BodyType ... max 5 } Here you give the dial a name and the number of variants (including the original geometry). You can also add material settings that differ from the original in the Figure section for each alternate geometry. This makes a model more like a kit with exchangeable parts. You can add up to 22 variations per part (from what I've read in the tech forum).

I wrote a long explanation and it was all lost, damn. Well here it is in a nut shell. PROPS Props are easy to make and are great for quicky applications such as jewery etc. All the goemetry information is held with in the pose file. Personally, I think this is a bit sloppy. You are limited to what instructions you can give your model with this method. FIGURES Figures are a little more involved to make but you have few limitations on what you can do with them after you have created one. With a figure, all the geometry is in an obj file kept in a goemometry folder. You then have a cr2 file in your figures library that loads the obj and applys instructions (thats the file that you run when you click the thumbnail in the figure library). Once you have a obj file made as I described above in my last reply, its a matter of editing a cr2 to load the obj and run it. Editing cr2s files and other files by hand is something you should really learn to do if you want to model well. Its a baby step method to learn, just a little at a time. I learn best by example - give me something that works and I will take it apart and find out how it works. There is a product in the market place, QuickConform by markdc, that automatically sets up an exhisting cr2 to load your obj. It may be worth the money to you in your leaning process, but for an experienced modeler, its easier and better to do by hand editing. marty

By the way Jlbrown907 , a hammer would be fine as a prop, you can make it a smart prop easly also so it would stay in the user's hand. Thats what I wall a quicky project.

Although I do edit my CR2s by hand, I use PhiBuilder and "convert heir file" to make the process quick and painless. Then I add all of the materials, set it up, and resave the CR2 (i.e.: readd to the library). Has worked very well so far. Of course, nothing yet has required boning and joint parameters. It's not easy in programs that have extensive rigging facilities - less easy in Poser. I'll be doing morphs on the next part of the project, so expect a barrage of questions concerning this. ;) I find Poser 4's limit of 22 alternate geometries to be a problem. On the next project part, there will unlimited alternate geometries. How will I circumvent that limitation?

Thanks guys!!!! I really appreciate you explaining this stuff to me. Although I'm not a complete newby, I just don't have time to get into the more advanced aspects of Poser. You guys are the greatest, for taking the time to explain this stuff as well as you did. Thanks again, and may Poser Be With You!! jlbrown907

Kuroyume, what exactly are your trying to do?

The first part was setting up a set of "props" which happen to have MAT Poses and one of them has alternate geometry. So, I set them up as figures (CR2s) to make this work. My problem was that I was importing the .obj files with "Center" checked. That was screwing up the alignment of the base geometry and the alternate geometry parts. But unchecking that fixed that problem right away. The other problem was getting them to the same relative scale on import (in order to export them at the proper scales). "Percentage of Standard Figure Size" is rather ambiguous (and misleading from my comparisons with P4 Male). And I have discovered that this percentage is applied to the largest dimension of the imported obj, not the HEIGHT as one would surmise. Very confusing and not explained anywhere that I could find. Now I am content that these are no longer mysteries or mysterious problems.