Ok I'm about to give up with this and have all my renders just be single character portrait types :(

I spent hours trying to get this to work. I've read everything I can find on message boards. I followed both the suggestions given to me when I posted earlier (move the figure from 0,0,0 and lock the figure)

I still get the following anytime I try to add another figure.

The mermaid is figure 1. It doesn't matter how I try to move them, they are melded together :( It appears to me (and I'm still pretty clueless) that it's adding the new figure to figure 1 like the conforming stuff vs adding it as a completly new figure, but I can't find any options that do not allow for that and nothing I have read indicates you have to do anything other than highlight the thumbnail in the figures library and click the double checkmark at the bottom.

This is incredibly frustrating as I know I'm probably doing something stupid.

Towal

(Please excuse me if I'm pointing out something you know. When troubleshooting, it's best to go with the simplest answers first.) How are you trying to move the figures? It looks like you've covered up your Pose dials so it must be difficult to maneuver the characters. I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but are you trying to use the trackball on the left to move them? That's the camera controls. Using that will change the camera's position on the screen, changing your angle and perspective on it, but it doesn't affect the figures at all. What you want to do is select the figure - make sure it is "Seahorse" "Body" for example (as it shows on the bottom of the screen. The use the xTrans, yTrans, and zTrans dials to manipulate that figure. (They're the dials 1/2 covered up by your render window.) Hope this helps, Cres

Ah! A picture worth a thousand words. It looks like you cut off part of the screenshot, though, since the animation window handle is not centered at the bottom, and we can't see the library window handle. What Crescent says. Go up to the menu at the top and reduce your document size a tad so that you can see all the controls. It is hard to create art if you are sitting on top on the palette and the paintbrush is behind the door! The little folded sheet inside your box has the keyboard commands neatly laid out. Use them to move and reorient the tools to your liking (you can get some of them into vertical strips)... making sure that everything is visible and accessible... then use a UI Dot to memorize that setting. You can always change it and memorize another setting. It does help to be able to see the dots! After you have the controls visible, it really is simple to move figures in space and face them in the direction you desire. If you have locked the wrong thing, you can unlock it by parenting to the universe or saying "none" depending upon what you are trying to free. There is also a lock command in the menus which can be unchecked. General Poser convention is that a figure height = one unit, so moving the mermaid body or hip vertically .500 on the y-trans dial ought to get you close. Then adjust for the sitting position. Schlabber used to have a wonderful posing tutorial on his old site, but I'm not sure if it is still available. He is working on a new one. :) Since he did have riding positions, you might download one of those files to see how he handled posing both beastie and rider together. My procedure is to get rid of the IK everywhere it shows up and resave the figure to the library totally zeroed and whited-out. Everything is linked from the hip, so get that into the right orientation and position in space. Work outwards from there, and don't forget to tweak hands and ears and tails into more lifelike positions. HTH, Carolly

Hi Cres and Carolly,

I should have explained a bit better. I can understand your confusion on my screen set up now that I looked at the screenshot closer. Normally I do have everything visable. I just made the canvas that large so I could clearly illustrate what my problem is.

Thank you both for the explinations. I think I have it figured out now thanks to your suggestions :) I think I was just not moving each figure far enough out of the 0,0,0 area to get them seperated properly initially.

The problem with using trial and error is the high volume of error :)

I appreciate you folks putting up with my stupid questions. Hopefully I will get the hang of this and not be such a pest.

Towal

Towal.. The only stupid question is the one that's not ASKED :o) So ask away. Trial and Error will get you some of the way, but you might as well learn by other people's errors too :o) None of us were born with the knowledge of how to use Poser.

Given the quality of the Poser 4 manual, trial and error is the preferred method of the Poser community, so ask away ;-) The Poser 5 manual is better, I might add. CL deserves credit for that!

I just don't like being a pest. I normally try to find the answers on my own and only post when I'm ready to throw the computer out the window ;)

I was fairly frustrated by the mermaid and horse so saved them for another day. I did want to make sure I actually got the hang of adding more than one figure so I tried this:

(critiques are welcome. I have thick skin ;) Still so new to this that I'm sure I'm doing tons of things wrong yet)

I think this is everything:
SS hatchling sea dragon
an SS MAT and pose
Clam and mat also came with the dragon
angel fish that came with P4
background is heart of the ocean from DAZ

I also did one with some postwork using Photoimpact 8

Thank you again to everyone that has offered help. I really appreciate it!

Towal

I like it and the bubbles are a great touch. Perhaps a slight size variation of the bubbles and it would be even nicer :o) Not sure what happened to the clam, those squares look strange to me. At first I thought it was a FireFly issue, but judging by your screenshot you use Poser 4 so that can't be it. I don't have that clam myself so I can't check it :o( but I don't THINK is's supposed to be chequered.

Towal, There is another artist here who hated to be a pest.. and who'd only ask for help when the computer was being hauled to the curb for the trashman. But her level of frustration would have been lowered enough to actually enjoy playing with the program if she'd ask for help more often. :sigh: There are a lot of shy lurkers, too, who benefit if you ask the question. Carolly

raises her hand as a shy lurker who benefits from other peoples questions Towal, Your picture is so cute! I love it, you did a great job. =) feels like a persnickidy ass by pointing this out One thing I noticed, a small part of the hatchling's tail is embedded in the clam's shell. I know minute detail... Another minute detail to think about, the position of the clam in relation to the sea floor. It seems a bit high off the ground, but maybe it's just me being too picky. I agree that the bubbles are awesome. Variation in size would just make them rock even more. =) Perhaps varying the size of your fish, or adding different fish as well...? Okay, now that I've shown everyone what a nitpicky ass I am, I'll shrink back to my corner. =) <3

Thank you all for the words of encouragement and the help :)

I appreciate an honest critique and do not mind nitpicking at all. I would prefer people nitpick than tell me something looks good when it does not. If I don't want an honest opinion I don't ask :)

The clam looked checkered because I had TWO clams on top of each other. This led me to the discovery that renaming your figures is quite helpful!

In this one I have removed the offending second clam, dropped the clam to the floor (duh) and I think I got the tail out of the shell on this one. My eyesight is not what it used to be and perspective stuff is hard for me sometimes so if it's still embedded let me know and I'll futz with it some more.

I didn't have any other fish so made a trip to DAZ and got some fish...and an eel and turtle and manta ray sigh This is an evil addiction I can see already :)

I am not sure I like the bubbles in this one. I used a different set with the variation in size, but am thinking the first pattern was better so should use it and manually vary the size of some bubbles. Opinions on that are welcome!

edit Actually looking at it again in previewing this post maybe the bubbles aren't that bad this way. Opinions still welcome though :)

Towal

Don't forget that Poser has cameras that let you view the scene from the sides (Cmd/Ctrl + ; and '), top (Cmd/Ctrl + t), front (Cmd/Ctrl + f), back, and beneath, all without any perspective, which can make it easier to see intersections (Cmd/Ctrl + m gets you back to the main camera).

The bubbles look great in the newer picture!

As RHazeltine suggests... use the orthographic cameras to check the position. With no perspective to cheat the eye, it is easy to SEE if the feet really are on the floor or the head really does clear the doorway. I keep the auxiliary camera far enough back to see the entire scene (useful for when something loads and I can't find it). The Posing and Main cameras are for rendering. Also check your focal lengths! The defaults are pretty bad. If you have a Body or Hip selected, hold down the shift key as you move it when you are roughing items into place. This keeps the selected item from changing into anything else. For example, you are moving a hand to the hip... the last thing you want to happen is to grab the abdomen or forearm or thumb. After you get stuff close, use the dials to align nicely. Look for JTrout's fishies. Aren't there some free texture maps for the basic fish, too? That will help supplement the chief purchased items. You might look at the DAZ Lion fish and Clown fish if you didn't already get them... A Court Jester for an undersea realm? (I'm feeling mean: I could see the dragon holding up a clown fih and saying "Alas, poor Yorick!" before chowing down.) The bubbles in various sizes add to the fantasy effect. You'll need to keep care that the light on the bubbles matches the light in your scene. But you've already made major strides! Carolly

Thank you for the suggestions about camera angles. This is my first 3d program so I am not used to being able to see things from all angles yet and forget that you can do more than look at just the front angle.

I also didn't know that about holding down shift. That will be handy, thank you.

I will look for some fishies textures and such. I am still semi avoiding other places with stuff to buy (or even for free) because I'm already out of control :) I did get pboost yesterday so I can start being organized from the beginning and already found stuff I forgot I had gotten!

One of my friends said I needed to find a clown fish and make it look like he was eating Nemo :) Another one said I need to animate his middle finger. I need no enemies with these folks grin

I'm still working on learning about lighting. I have some tutorials bookmarked to do.

I have never been what I would really consider artistic and if anyone had told me even a year ago that I would be trying something like this I would have laughed. I started out with Photoimpact. I also have Bryce and Lightwave sitting on my computer, but I can only learn one thing at a time or my brain will explode. I will go to Bryce after I get the hang of Poser a bit more so I can do my own scenes a bit better and then tackle lightwave (I'm hoping the learning curve on lightwave is somewhat smaller after getting more familiar with 3d type stuff).

I really appreciate all the feedback here it's made the learning curve go much smoother already :)

Towal

Yup, You can even look at the bottom of their feet! (This is handy if you are posing two dancers.) There are huge archives of stuff at various locations, so I'm glad that you are getting organized early. I'd also suggest finding Dr Geep's tutorials (he calls them primers) and working from the earliest ones forward. He uses lots of pictures and humor so even things like wave deformers aren't frightening. By the time you get up to date, you will be comfortable with most of the 3d art conventions and going to a higher end program such as Lightwave would be a much smaller step. The metaballs plug-in for Poser is coming soon and will be really neat. Carrara and some other 3d programs use metaballs as a way to build more organic shapes. Following Dr Geep's tuts you can build an aquarium and then add some wierd little fishies of your own! :) Of course we'd still need to drop by DAZ and the various Marketplaces to get the realistic and nicely rigged models and their clothing and stuff (you wouldn't believe my castle collection), but another tool to play with is always good. For somebody who claims not to be artistic, you are coming along well. The big thing is vision. If you have a goal, whether it is to bring out an emotion or portray a concept, it makes it a lot easier to make a picture. So have fun, be creative, and don't hesitate to ask questions BEFORE you get frustrated. Carolly

Attached Link: Link to Weird Juice and FREE Drops

Carolly

Thank you so much for the encouragement :) I have all of Dr. Geep's tutorials bookmarked and am going to start working through those now that I'm organized and Pboost has stopped being fussy.

I was also wondering if there is a comprehensive list somewhere of the sites that offer quality items free or pay is fine.

Bryce has metaballs as well so I'm semi familiar with the concept at least. I have not ever used them yet though.

I'm trying to get better about asking before so frustrated that the computer is in danger of being hammered into oblivion :)

Ernyoka1: Thank you for the link and example. I don't have P4 (no pro pack) so I can't try it, but it looks like metaballs will be fun to play with!

Towal

Attached Link: Metasequoia LE

Paklad made a huge and very comprehensive list of Poser sites. I think it is available from the Backroom? Hmm... no, the links page there doesn't have it. IIRC, he found 3000 links. I have an earlier version, under his old name of nu-be, but not the latist one.

wow ok well maybe I don't want a comprehensive list LOL. It's taken me 2 days just to go through the marketplace and free stuff here and an RDNA. I already have more stuff than any sane person would ever need I'm sure...that of course is not going to stop me from getting more. I am really glad that I went ahead and got Pboost early on.

Thank you again for all the help. I feel like I'm starting to at least have a somewhat of a clue now.

Towal