First of all I would like to point out that there is indeed a lot of talent here at Renderosity and it is a great place to be and interact. There are a group of people here that have a big following and rightly deserve the positive feedback they regularly get. I strongly believe that after viewing countless photos of people that are not perhaps a well known name or have posted only on seldom occasions, whatever the case may be, I find it strange and disappointing that many of their pictures receive very little attention. Often and of course I am generalizing, I see the lesser names posting better images than the well known names (no offence to anyone) this would suggest a type of bias mentality. I would even go so far as to say that the well known names will receive 150 or more comments and a stack of high rankings regardless of whether they post good photo or a umm not so good photo. When I first started posting here I wasnt really commenting much on other peoples works so I have a bit of catching up to do, but of late I have been making the effort and I strictly comment, vote, rank, based on the image without ever taking into consideration who the author might be. I have been doing photography for about 20 years and was taught to always give credit where credit is due. There are some excellent images popping up in the gallery and I would urge everyone to break out of this cozy alliance system and judge all works equally. I must also say that I am thrilled to bits at the amount of feedback I myself receive and many thanks to all who have taken the time to put forwards their views. Ponder if you will my thoughts without seeking the rotten tomatoes and let us see how we can remedy things for the future! Anugama

You're absolutely right Anugama .. but there's one small problem you missed. Time. These days, i don't have very much time .. so the only pics i look at and comment are those, that generate an ebot (favorite artists). Of course, i'll miss a lot of excellent work, but i just don't have the time to browse through 5 (or more) pages of pics and comment on all of them. It's sad for me and all those photographers and their wonderful pics, but i don't see a way to change that for know. What i don't do is giving nice words to pics i don't like just for liking the people behind. No use in doing that - me thinks .. Just my opinion ... i'm looking forward to other comments. Best Regards Tom

in some respects this is a follow on from a discussion that we had last week. you are correct in your observations. this seems to be a site wide symptom and i think that the faves list contributes to this. in the past i rarely commented on images but over the past year i've done a lot more commenting. this, i feel has brought others to my gallery and subsequently they've left comments on my images.while i appreciate everyones comments, i'm not sure of the "i'll comment on yours because you've commented on mine" mindset, as i've fallen into that trap on a few occasions. if i find more than a few images i like i begin to backtrack through the gallery. as tom above has mentioned, time is an issue as well. i used to look at all the works in the galleries but recently, due to lack of time, started relying on mishas' weekly links to see what's happening in the photography gallery. hopefully over time we can balance things out :)

Yes, time is a relevant factor so that is why I think my observations should be viewed in a generalized fashion.

As already been said it is true.... and I appreciate your candor. It is a sitewide problem, not just a photo gallery thing, I do believe. And yet for me as others time is the main factor.... I made a vow to myself that I would look at each and every image in the gallery, and try to comment on most of them when they reduced the number down to one upload a day. The thought was less images, less time it would take, more images I could enjoy. Well it seems that even with the reduction of uploads we still end up with 5 pages a day of images! So as I go through the gallery if a thumbnail or title catches my eye I will look, and often comment, even on those who I don't know.... yet much gets skipped over I know.... and it is a shame. And I agree this does relate to other threads recently posted here, voting, ranking, favorites, Hot 20.... it's all tied up to the same issues. I think that most sites that employ these sort of features will all end up with this conundrum in time.

Welcome to the Forum, Anugama! As I have preached a number of times before, this site is what the members make it. We have a number of "formal" ways to expose and highlight notable work; the Gallery of the Month, the Top 20, hit counts, ratings, comments, interviews of celebraties, opportunities for writing tutorials. Once we had a Monthly Contest, but group consensis was that we could better learn from each other in the present Monthly Theme and discussion. If these things are not satisfying the needs of the members, any ideas for change are greatly appreciated. Active participation in implementing is even more appreciated! The Top 20, for example, became more useful as more folks started regularly USING it! Recently I started my "Last Week in the Gallery" picks. Since I'm forced to look at every image in the Photo Gallery anyway, every day, rooting out the evils of nipples and primates getting frisky, I felt these picks could encourage folks to look at the wonderful Gallery work. I CANNOT MAKE ANY CLAIM WHATSOEVER THAT THE PICKS REPRESENT A COMPREHENSIVE COLLECTION OF THE VERY BEST. I just pick what I like. That being said, I think I've been doing pretty well, and folks seem to like the feature. [BTW, Anugama had two images chosen the week of 1/24, and one during 12/13, so his work is definitly worth looking at, in my opinion anyway.] But of course I'm going to miss some images that deserve picking, and pick some which perhaps do not. If Members feel there is notable talent which is not being recognized, please do us all a favor and encourage these folks to come over to the Forum and introduce themselves.

Yes Misha! We are always on the look out for fresh victims.... err I mean new talent......

Ooh! Pick me! Pick me! I'm a new talent!

Actually, I'm not, but I can give you a perspective from a relative outsider.

Of the images that I have posted, the best responses are to the ones that I post in the forum, and not the gallery. I think that's because people know that I am looking for feedback when I post to the forum, where in the gallery, I'm just one of a large crowd.

I admit that the last photo I posted, I was hoping would do better than it did, as far as comments at least, but I was excited to get the comments that I did (I tend to judge my photos more on the number and type of comments it gets than on rankings). What really bummed me out was the number of people who actually looked at it. After a week of being up, very few people had actually looked at it. This led to a number of thoughts running through my mind.

The first was annoyance that I had posted the photo just before I went to bed, and by the next morning it was already buried three pages deep into the gallery. Not much exposure time there.

The second thought, of course, was that it wasn't good enough for people to pay any attention to. I think this runs through the brain of any artist who displays a work though. This led to the thought of, "Yeah, but if they could see the print instead of a JPG, they'd understand." Well, nothing to be done for that unless someone actually decides that they want a print. Then, depending on my mood, I'd waffle back over to the "maybe my work just sucks" thought.

On the other hand, every time I see that the photo has another hit, I get really excited. Especially after it's been up for awhile. That, in my mind, means that someone took the time to go way back through the gallery, and that something about my thumbnail caught their eye, causing them to look at the finished work. This thought negates the feeling that it's an inferior work.

Now, from the standpoint of someone who browses through the galleries, I agree, there is just too much to look at sometimes (thus my annoyance of being bumped back so quickly). I generally scan though the thumbnails, and check out the ones that catch my eye. The lesson here, at least to me, is to make sure the thumbnail is interesting.

Sometimes I just pop on here and check out the gallery of some of my favorite artists (Michelle being one of them). This really isn't any different than what I would do anywhere else. In a bookstore, for example, I usually scan through the titles, but I alway focus in on my favorite authors. What I have noticed, however, is that I don't really comment much on anyone's work myself. I chalk this up as me being a generally shy person, but I think I need to work on changing that. My new resolution is to start commenting on works, even if it's just to say "Wow. I really like that", which is pretty much all I know about art anyway (which really annoys the owners of the local galleries when I go in to look at their $30,000 paintings).

Okay. I think I've lost my train of thought, and I think I'm rambling, so I guess I'll stop now.

The general summary of my ranting is that, yeah, I'd like to see more feedback, but yeah, I totally understand how hard it is to do.

-Taltos

As Michelle says time is the main factor. I haven't any comment of you in my photos, you'll understand that I prefer to apply my time to the people who like my images because is more probable that I like the photos of the people who like mine. As Tom, I don't have time, but I try to have time for the people who have time for me. Renderosity is a community, this means relationship and I feel really well when I encourage people who encourage me, you know, not divinities, this isn't The National Geographic, only friends sharing their images, their time, their opinions and perhaps something more.

I remember posting in here not too long ago asking for feedback and only had 1 person provide it in the gallery and none in the forum. From a beginners point of view I was asking for critiques, but did not get anything to work on. Does that mean it was a good image and did not need any work on or was it just a pile of ^&%$ that is not worth commenting on? I personally will not be putting any other images forward because I am wasting my time as well. I looked at the mission of the forum and thought that it was well written and encouraging for new users. In reality, this forum is far from it's own mission and as a newbie to photography this has now put me off using the site for people to critique my work. It does cause problems for my future development because, I can I improve if I do not see the problems that established members of the forum see?

Hello Sabretalon,
you bring another factor into play. We've discussed that before and i can really understand your frustration. But please try again here in the forums. Don't forget, it's not easy to do honest critique on one, i don't remotely know. To say, a pic is great if i feel that way is pretty easy ... but even if the language would be no barrier .. how can i know, how you'll receive what i'm saying? I remember very well giving a critique i've even been personally asked for. I sat there a whole evening, wrote two pages in an email and the only reaction some days later was a short statement of her hubby, telling me what an **** i am to say what i've said. And hey .. i wasn't rude or the like, i even tried to provide hints to what she could improve. I'm not telling you, you're wrong, not at all, but please try to understand "the other side" too. And, as i said above, try again in the forums. I (not being an artist and not knowing to much about photography) promise to have a look and - if possible - some critique. ok? Tom

Sabretalon.... I can understand your frustration, and you certainly sound angry. :~/ But you have had answers to other questions here answered, by me and others. I think that judging this forum and gallery on one images lack of responses is not fair to anyone. We try to be helpful when we can be, and if you have followed any of the other recent threads you would have seen that most people prefer not to critique images in the gallery, but here in the forum. Maybe had you posted the actual image here and not in the gallery it would have gotten some replies here. shrug I cannot speak for anyone but myself, and quite honestly I must have missed it.... When requesting a critique it's helpful to let others know exactly what you want from them. I've found the image in your gallery. But quite honestly what do you want others to say? The artistic choices you made with the image, make it very hard to critique as a photograph.... it's gone beyond the realm so to speak from photography into something more (maybe would have done better in 2D gallery?).... there is nothing wrong with that, but personally I care not to judge nor critique peoples artistic choices, as tastes vary from individual to individual, and sometimes I like what others have done and sometimes I don't. Do you like the image, and what you've done to it? Then that is all that matters. So show me the original photograph, ask me what I think and I'll tell you IMHO what I like, and what I think could have been better.... but that's just me.....

Yes, Michelle is right, she always reply and her advices, IMHO, are wise and excellent advices indeed, product of her culture in art and photography.

You made a good point! Jinx

...I don't think anyone posting a first time image or an occasional image - can really expect a lot of notice - especially if that image was subtle - if you are serious about getting feedback - you would just have to be persistent and post more images -- eventually -if your work merits it, people would take notice and attention would most likely increase - however - I do think a fair amount of average work by regulars pulls down rave -over the top reviews from their buddies -- such is life, I guess -- but you would serve your friends better in the long run by being more objective with their work.

As I have already conceded time is against us Time influences how we choose to interact and conduct ourselves on-line and ultimately dictate the decisions we make. So, we can only use whatever time we have wisely and comment, judge, vote etc on an equal playing field hopefully without too much bias. For example if I happen to come across an image that deserves recognition then I should (when time permits) be prudent and comment on it regardless of whether that person has previously commented on one of mine or not for this is I believe is a healthy attitude to have. Further more it sets a good example and trend for others to follow providing time allows! In my initial post I only brought forward a negative aspect that I wanted to outline but I do acknowledge and commend the many positives of the photography gallery that has been highlighted by some of the above posts. I think much of what I have been originally on about comes down to attitude; surely we can all progress no matter what obstacles are laid across our path with the right attitude.

....I'll drink to that last statement, Anugama!

Hello and welcome Anugama! I personally have my own way of getting through this gallery, and like the others in here, time is an issue for me too! I have a list of favorites who I check out either every day or every other day. I then check the people who commented on my post, because as Enax stated, if they like my work, I will probably like theirs, but there are no guarantees there as I comment strictly in the photography gallery! I then browse the photography gallery new uploads and click on whatever catches my eye, if it catches my eye and the image isn't all that, I usually will not leave a comment as I will not give an unwanted critique. (Want a critique? Post it in the forum and ask for it!) So I do comment on beginners I am sure. After their images have caught my eye a few times, I will then add them to my favorites. I personally haven't seen you in the gallery and I don't recall seeing any of your images (will have to go look now!) You know even with my favorites, if I don't care for the image, I won't comment. Sabretalon, I don't recall seeing your image(s) in the forum, I usually look at them too! I would not have commented though if I didn't know what to say. Spend some time throwing in some comments, people will notice you and eventually curiosity gets the best of them, after a while they will want to see your work too! Goes back to the old saying "One hand washes the other". Have a wonderful day! Hope to see you around in both the gallery and the forum! :) Brenda aka: Nilla :)

OK I am going to eat my words here Anugama! I have previously seen a few of your images and they are awesome! I believe I saw your work while browsing the new uploads and the thumbs caught my eye! You really have some awesome images in there... Will browse some more later when I have more time, added you to my favorites because I was impresssed and I definately don't want to miss any of your work! :) Sabretalon, Curiosity got the best of me, had to go have a peek in your gallery too, unfortunately I do not know enough about Poser to comment, I generally never view or comment in any of the other galleries except for the photography gallery, so that is one of the reasons you have never seen any of my comments. Sorry, :( Brenda :)

...but Brenda -- you're, sort of saying, ( as an example of how you handle things ) -- if you have nice comments only - put it in the comments section - and anyting to do with negative or constructive criticism should only be addressed in the forum -- so I would ask others: --is this personal way of handling things -the way it should be? -( nice comments - or - silence )...just curious George.....( you know -- that little monkey )

Oh Unstrung! (You again eh?) ;) LOL! Not saying that I leave in total silence, if it bugs me enough I will send an IM, I tend to comment on what is right. If it is a total loss do you honestly think I am going to leave a comment that says "This really sucks!" No I don't think so! There aren't many that I look at that I don't comment on OK? But there have been a few times I left without a comment, I don't think the above comment should ever be left on anyones work! Most images I take the time to pull up get a comment from me! I don't look at every single upload, not enough hours in the day being on dial up! Brenda ;)

Well, my thing is, I comment on the images that I'm interested in.. there are many others that are really good, but I just have little interest in them, therefore I have nothing to say.. and I don't want end up being one of those people who comment "Beautiful shot!" on every image.. I think that would be worse... thats just my opinion. Plus, I (like a few others around here) have very little experience with photography. I don't know enough to give constructive comments about the technical aspects of a photo, so I'm not even going to pretend that I do and end up making up sh$t. Ok, I'll shut up now... Kim =)

...hmmmm..... thanks for the Canadianism - eh? ( -course I am 100% American - but that's cool! ) ---- most constructive critism or just plain honest reaction contains a mixture of what one might like -dislike -- and all the nuances inbetween-- I'm just curious as to how far one might go before you cross the line and should kick it into the forum arena -- how much can our sensitive creative types stand before they run into the woods screaming! --- and ,of course one need not comment on every image they don't like -- I just see almost all comments here as polorized to the cheerleading side -- and as such -- they lose credibility ....to me..... the upstart trouble -maker who has not posted an image yet.... don't hate me ....... I am not an animal!!!

Ummm Kim, Me thinks that you shoot excellent photos and that you qualify to give your opinion on what you like or don't like in a photo! But I agree, typing "Beautiful shot" on every photo not only would get old, it also would lack a personal touch, which by the way I like to give. So I guess Unstrung is volunteering to view and comment on every post in the photo gallery every day? ;)

I ain't no Canadian, sir, I'm American too y'know! From the good ole Confederacy too......... mwahahaha, just had to. We all comment in our own way, but like someone mentioned before, this is a community.. many of us have made great friends here, and some of us are just too sensitive to other's feeling to say what they dislike. I do tell people what I dislike sometimes, if the image is too bright or the focus isn't quite right etc. , but I do understand that you aren't saying that everyone is guilty of cheerleading. ;) Thank you, Brenda =) and I do agree that Unstringer here should be our gallery mascot ;) huggles Kim =)

Hehehe! He got quiet I see! :-P

Btw, how can someone be 100% American exactly??? Just curious! ;)

I agree with you Kim. Whats 100% American? I didn't know there was a photography forum here! This is fun!

Michelle, I'm not angry just frustrated. I am also not saying that I do not get help here when I ask for it, because I do and I appreciate all the help. But this is about people commenting on images, when I posted an image asking for critique and only had 1 out of the hundreds of people in this forum comment then maybe you can understand the frustration felt by a newbie. All, I am here to learn from whatever mistakes I make. If I do not receive comments on images where I have asked for them then I will no longer post images. What I will try doing is asking questions, this may take longer because you have to interpret what I am actually wanting to do. I will probably try posting an image here again later, please remember I will not take offence about anything you say (unless it is about my mother and the....) ;p I know it is difficult to get to know people just by text alone, and sometimes that text can be misread. Best advice is do not assume anything (I made that mistake with my first post in this thread, I assumed that most of you spend time searching the galleries and providing feedback to newbies) Thank you all for your comments in this thread.

Hey guys I'm a newbe, I have a few questions... lol For example, besides Learning from other people's comments and showing your work... what else is the gallery good for?? Also what is My "Artist Page" and who chose what pictures go there? As far as recibing coments for my work, I wish I could recibe more... but I undestand that the feedback is related mostly with how often you post in the forum. So 50-60 hits per picture doesn't sound that bad. Anyway, what I find wierd is that It seen that I get better ranking when the picture have is a story behind it rather than just an imangen. Then again, is kind of hard to tell when I only have 1-5 ranking. :P Michelle, thanks a lot! you seen to always coment on my work leo

......gallery mascot ???.....unstringer??....Kim - THat's UNSTRUNG !! -I'll have you know --( spent all of 2 seconds coming up with that tag! )---- well, truth is that I'm probably not 100% American.....been in Hockeypuckland for too many years to not have some it rub off....but, - I digress.......it's too early in the morning to start mixing it up with you guys.....I'm too sleepy....I'll comment later - if that's OK ( NILLA! )

"what is My "Artist Page" and who chose what pictures go there?" If you look over at the side of the screen, there is a pull-down list box called "Member Options". A selection there will take you to your Home Page. There are several links on your Home Page to change the content, in particular [Manage Featured Gallery Images]. If you do nothing, three get picked at random everytime the page is opened, (I like this method). "what else is the gallery good for??" That is a very deep philosophical question!

i know what you mean. at the beginning my gallerie at Renderosity i thinked the same.my solutions is, i only post my pictures in my gallerie for sharing with all the members, of course i am happy about comments and rankings, but it should not be the motivation to do it.i hate comments like " this is your best picture of all " if i had a best picture, i will stop photographie because i cant grow more. make your picture where you are, this is your picture what you see now, share it with us or not, this is your Entscheidung ( sorry i dont know the english word, maybe mention? ).it takes time to go into a new family for viewing and making comments and meeting new peoples. sometimes i need 2 hours to answer of comments, did you do it as well ? regards gerhard !!!!!!! #:O) !!!!!!!!

Yup unstrung, I'm too sleepy also, I'll be back later to continue this ;) And what's wrong with being the mascot??? :P

All of us, or the majority of us, have been newbie and all of us uploaded our first image here, my first image, a render in poser, with some props modeled and textured by me and with one of my photos as background, got one comment and one ranking (good) and it got this comment 26 days after the upload. When you don't get comments it's a comment itself. Now I consider this image just a crap but anyway I didn't delete it of my gallery. I did a postwork in this image to simulate a Tri-X photo, a friend said me: upload the original render, is full of color and light, but I considered that the postwork fit with the image. An error in fact: 660 views and one comment after almost one month.
But after this deplorable start I didn't write in the forum of Poser a thread like yours.

Btw, the photo most commented here has 112 comments not 150 or more, and the majority of these photos have my comments and I respect and appreciate these photographers very much: Cyn, Gerhard, Michelle, Tania, Meli, Monika, Danny, Masema, Agny, PapaGuru, Telgar... and also they are very kind, even with you. Some of these photographers commented in your photos, did you comment on theirs?

@Gerhard: "Entscheidung" can be decision

enax, I hae not had any commetns by any of these people. I do comment on some images but mainly when it is posted in the forum or linked to from the forum. I do not go searching through the galleries.

@sabretalon: You only have one "photo" in your gallery and looks more as 2D and stock photo. logiloglu for example, has a masterpiece (IMHO) "children" with 3 comments. A photographer is more than one photo is a trajectory, also is the person behind the photo.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=schadtc

there is another excellent photographer schadtc. for me, there are not many comments on his beautiful work and he is so excellent. have a look ,my friend.

quote: (Btw, the photo most commented here has 112 comments not 150 or more, and the majority of these photos have my comments and I respect and appreciate these photographers very much: Cyn, Gerhard, Michelle, Tania, Meli, Monika, Danny, Masema, Agny, PapaGuru, Telgar... and also they are very kind, even with you. Some of these photographers commented in your photos, did you comment on theirs?) I assume youre talking to me? To answer your question, quite simply yes I have commented on their works! I still stand firm against my original comments in this thread regardless if I exaggerated the comments figure or not, if you feel offended in any way, get over it!!

I feel very well, thanks

Glad to hear it mate!

Glad to see everyone is playing nicely in the sandbox.... :~) Whether we all agree on the issue or not, repecting each other and each others opinions is always for the best. While I do agree with most of what Anugama and the unstrungone, this place is what you make of it. I believe that has already been said before? I have seen newbies garner many comments on their first posts but their work was exceptional.... and I've seen others become popular with in a couple of weeks....most times it takes much longer. It has also been said already but bears repeating, that if you interact with others both here and in the gallery, (make comments, post your thoughts) people will remember you and will be less hesitant to look and comment on your work in the gallery. If post intermitently, never interact with anyone, chances are pretty darn good that you won't be getting much attention. Is that fair?, probably not, but it is like that everywhere, NOT JUST RENDEROSITY (caps for emphasis).... I'm a member at many photo sites, and I speak from experience. That being said.... I did want to point out one other thing... I seem to have followed behind Anugama in commenting on some images, and do look at most images in the gallery even if I don't always comment.... (comes with the moderating job you see).... but there were some that you raved about that I didn't agree with.... point is... that what is fantastic to you isn't always fantastic to me, and vice versa... so while you may think an image should be getting more attention, for others it may not be worth a second glance. And if I'm feeling up to it I will try to comment on images that are average, pointing out positives, and maybe what could be improved... read my homepage ( I haven't changed anything in quite a while).... I agree it isn't all about stroking the ego. That's all....

And at Gerhard....! Yes schadtc has been on my favorites list for a very long time.... His gallery is wonderful, and I would encourage others to take the time to browse through it. :~)

Yes it goes without saying that if a person takes the time to comment on anothers work then chances are he or she will receive some attention in return. And of course what may be considered a high quality image to me may not be viewed that way by another, as I have already previously stated, my observations in this thread are 'generalized'. Now what I have just said which also clearly echoes the thoughts of many others here is obvious. So to keep our eye on the ball the heart of the issue centers around, and as I have said before, breaking out of the cozy alliance group system that I believe to be prevalent, this again comes back to attitudes. Its ok to keep up to date with our favorite artists etc as long as we maintain a healthy and balanced attitude towards everyone else (whenever we might endeavor to come across them) and judge them based on skill/quality and not how long they have been here or what their name might be. Of course there is not going to be time to look at everyones works and comment but a consistent and open attitude will promote an equal playing field for all. Its a matter of being able to think within the group structure as much as thinking as an individual in relation to what comes into the gallery. Happy snapping... ;)

@Gerhard: I know the gallery of schadtc and I commented some of his photos and I'll comment more, he is an excellent artist indeed. Anyway thanks for the link.

oh yep , i feel very well, too. first i am interested to all works of my friends i added to my fav list, they are all excellent artists, this is the matter why they are on my fav list. i always will look on their work when they post it because i want see what new excellent works they are posting.when i have time i look in the gallerie for new excellent pictures, so i found your excellent work, too.i am a fan of excellent pictures, believe me. i think we are human peoples and not justice machines . i think it is not possible for us to make all correct without mistakes. i love the spirit of the community, we are not a Jury, we are an artistfamily. happy snapping to you, too.

Ah, I'm glad you are feeling well for I was wondering how you were... ? Yes we are humans and I would not expect for a minute that we should not ever make mistakes. Again, my statements are to be taken in a 'generalized context'. Mistakes we will always make and believe me thats more than ok, but nevertheless we can always strive to improve things.