I've had Apophysis for about a month, and have yet to be able to create anything usable with it. Anyone willing to write a tut or give some pointers? I would greatly appreciate it!

I recommend you join the aphophysis discussion list from www.apophysis.org You'll then be able to download the latest version and read questions and answers that will help you. I was in the same situation you are now a few weeks ago, I tried it several times with horrible results. But by reading the list alone I could figure out some things and now I could make at least some decent images. Look at my gallery, the first two that show. Hope this helps, good luck! Barbara

I agree with Barbara. There are some tutorials available through the list. Since the latest version is still in Beta, Mark needs everyone to join so they can report bugs and get the latest version and learn what isn't in the help files yet! One word of warning. Once you get involved with Apophysis, it becomes incredibly addictive! Try to remember to eat and sleep occasionally. :)

Hi! I've found the best results as far as solid lookng flames come from 1) limiting the number of transforms (triangles) in the Options/Random tab to 2 - 3 transforms and 2) limit the variations used in random batches to "Linear" and "Sinusoidal". Many, if not most, of the coolest (?? lol) flames (IMHO) I've seen were created with just 2 triangles. Also, edit the number in parentheses after "RotateReference" in the default animation script to something smaller than the default "3.6". I use 1.6 or 0.6, The smaller the number, the slower the flame rotates and its easier to catch those cool shapes that appear for a split second as it rotates. Open one of the Scripts like "spiralize" or "make bi-lateral" and click the green, "run script" arrow and see how you like those. And, in general, just move the triamgles around or re-shape them with the a,b or c corners. Skinny triangles (sounds like a cool name for a band! lol) tend to make harder, lined flames and thick ones tend to fill in the gaps between lines better. Have fun, BUT... if you start idly, unconsciously repositioning and arranging the slices of a pizza at dinner, be prepared to enter rehab at Addled Apo Addicts Anonymous (quad A) for an extended time to cure "triangle fixation"! lol Rick

What would REALLY help is if someone could do a sample walk-thru of a flame creation... One of you talented guys like Rykk, Tres or Dream Warrior. LOL I am on the Apo list, and I do read the posts, until my eyes glaze over because I'm SO lost in the technical jargon of Fractalish. I know the possibilites are pretty much unlimited, but a good "this is how you come up with a basic sprial" or "this is how you get an image that doesn't look like a line drawing" (as all of mine save a couple of happy accidents do. grrrrr!) would go a long way for me. Most of the other fractal programs out there that I've found have at least one "walk through" tutorial that creates one good-looking example of what the program's capable of. As long as I've been working with Apo, spending hours in front of the computer, and I STILL can't come up with a decent spiral. How embarrassing! And as for scripts? throws up hands Lost! Lost I tell you... It's overwhelming guys, for myself, anyway. I can drag around triangles all night (and often do) but I know I'm not using the program the way it's meant to be used. I know I've probably already said the same thing to those of you that I talk to, but unfortunately, I'm still saying it. I "dabble" with Apo. I'd love to be able to "USE" it. But without some step-by-step help, I don't see it happening. Thanks for the rant/plea space. Kat

One thing that you may not be aware of is that many of us go through viewing hundreds of images to find one really good one. Sort of like those National Geographics photographers! One thing that can help right away is to open Options/Options/Random and look at the lower left side where it says 'forced symmetry'. If you set that to one of the symmetries and then generate a batch with the 'Sinusoidal' variation and using 'Spiralize2' script, you should get a number of interesting images. Make sure you have the main window fairly small and have the Mutation window open. I usually choose 'Same number' and match my variation at the bottom of the window. If you right click in one of the squares you will get a dropdown and you can choose to 'maintain symmetry'. Try it both ways. I hope that can get you smiling! Tres

I finally gave up on Apo 2 and went back to using the original. I don't have UF and saving the images in JPEG really seemed to muck them up in version 2.(Although I still belong to the mail list) I do however love the original. I've gotten pretty good at getting some pretty decent results (I'm a fiddler...can't leave anything alone)and they save nicely. Is there a way to open the flame fractals in Fractal Explorer and play with them there...or use fractals from FE in APO? (no, I'm never happy with what I have and can't afford to purchase any more programs at the moment)I too am a longo dummy, but if I can get things to work, anyone can. Just keep playing with it! Oh, and I will take all of your tips from here and try them out. grins

blushes That's lingo dummy.

I've been working on a tutorial for creating flames in Apophysis for a couple of weeks. It shows you how to go about creating flames by hand without relying on random batches, mutations or scripts (I never use them). I will post it if I ever get around to finishing it... Matt.

QuietRiot - I save my Apo images as .png files... much better resolution, IMO. I've not opened Apo 1 in a while. Maybe I need to go back and look at it again. I do like all the bells and whistles of Apo 2, though. LOL CriminallyInsane - I can't wait to see that tutorial. Hopefully you write it with blonde people in mind.. (points to hair - I can say that!) LOL Kat - rushing home from work to try tresamie's suggestions. ^_^

I agree with what Viv said, above. You have to go thru TONS of random batches to find a few really cool and different flames. You can, however, "hedge your bets" and "stack the deck in your favor" by limiting the variables used in the calculation of the random batch - either as I wrote above or, probably better, as you go thru lots of random flames keep track of what combo's of "variations", ie "linear" or "bent" or others, make the type of flames that interest you the most and then set the Options/Random tab to use only those variations. You'll have a better chance to get flames you like. Another thing I like to do is, after I've tugged the ol' three-siders in a flame with 2 triangles around some, add another triangle. It always adds one with a "Linear" transform and it does some neat things to the flame once you move it just a bit. It does get a bit out of hand, though, and tends to spread the flame out a lot. Or, if there's lots of triangles, start deleting them till you only have 2 or 3 and mess with those. There used to be a variable under the transform tab at the bottom labelled "p". I notice now, in beta15, it is different but there is one called "weight". The "p" factor used to change the probability of a "hit" by the gradient (I think - lol) for the triangle selected and you could experiment with changing the first significant bit of this number to thicken up a flame. I assume the "weight' parameter does the same thing. I don't usually mess with it much because, if the truth be known (and eventually it always is! lol) most of the flames I've ever made have pretty much "drawn themselves" and I'm way to slow and lazy to actually try to really pay attention and figure out exactly what makes a flame do specific things other than I've noticed long, skinny triangles make spiky, skinny flames. Now if I could find some long, skinny pizza slices maybe I could lose a bit of weight and become "long and skinny", too! lol Gotta get back in the gym....sure....definitely will.....absulutely....well.....maybe after just a FEW more random batches, ok?" :>)

I really don't have that much knowledge about Apo, Kat. As I told reflash, I just made two (well, now three) pleasant (for me anyway) images using Apo. And I've been able to do that by reading the Apo list. I, like Tres, play with random batches until I find something interesting. Sometimes I mess with the mutation window or the triangles, but not much. What I mess with the most is with gradients. They can change a flame dramatically. I hope I had more info to give you, but that's about all! Hugs and good luck! Barbara

I noticed that when you squish in a triangle, it tends to spread the fractal out. Sort of the opposite of what you generally want. My problem is getting the angle right. I made a couple of lovely wreaths that just won't sit right. The more I fiddle with them the worse they get. (but my wheat came out beautifully) LOL I get the drift on how to invert things (so to speak) but can't quite get the hang of it well enough. Did someone say we should stop to eat and sleep? Maybe that's my problem. Not enough of either. The only thing I miss about version 2 is being able to change the background color, but finally figured out how to do that in psp without too much trouble.

You can change the background color in Apo 2! There is a window labeled 'Adjust' where you can do lots of things, including changing that. It is just to the right of the 'gradient' button. Let me know if you have trouble finding it, I can do a screen print. Matt-------FINISH IT!!!!! I sure would love to read it. Please :)

Attached Link: http://www.apophysis.org

My how this thread has grown since I last looked in. I'd hate to sound like a grouch, but discussion of the Apophysis 2 beta really should be confined to Apophysis mailing list. Beta means "unfinshed" (and that includes the documentation). It's not meant for general release yet and the price you pay to get it is an obligation to join the list. Everything that's been said here could have been said on the list, and it's welcome there. As to tutorials, I'm happy to put links to other people's tutorials on my own tutorials page (and I expect there'll be a link to that appearing in the list messages soon), but I'd prefer that they weren't advertised outside the list. It may be a mean streak in me but I sort of feel that people who can't be bothered joining the list don't deserve help. Mark

Mark, I have to politely disagree with your statement that discussions of the Apo beta don't belong on this forum... what IS Apophysis if not a program for the creation of FRACTALS, which is quite obviously the focus of this forum. Yes, beta does mean "unfinished" but the Apo beta is not some huge secret project, and is availble to anyone who does join the Apo mailing list, of which I am a member. You may have noticed in my post that I said I DID "bother" to join the list and I do read the posts, but feel a bit overwhelmed by the terminology and technology discussed there.

(copy)
"Everything that's been said here could have been said on the list, and it's welcome there."

Would it be a correct assumption to say that by this comment consider this thread unwelcome in this forum? I feel that if it were off-topic or out of line the moderator would have shut it down immediately. Since it is a specific discussion of a fractal generating program, how could it be unwelcome in a fractal forum?

Forgive my ignorance if requests for assistance are unwelcome or unacceptable here, but I was under the impression that this was the chief purpose of this type of forum.

Kat

Attached Link: http://www.middaycrisis.homestead.com/apotut1.html

A quick tutorial showing how I go about starting to make a flame in Apophysis.

Matt.

Mark, I have to agree with Kat. I also belong to the APO mailing list, and I read everything that's written. Most of it is beyond my current knowledge. What's wrong with a bunch of newbies working their way through problems and giving each other a large dose of encouragement? We do it with other fractal programs. (and I have yet to see pizza mentioned in any of the notes on the mailing list, LOL) Ease up a little. We're not trying to steal anything....just trying to wade our way through and chatter a bit in the process.

Hi Mark, I like to have some information in a place like this where you can easily pull up the archive. Although the list is very good and very helpful and I have learned a great deal there, I have only learned what was written to it since I joined. Is there somewhere to access an archive of messages?

As Mark stated above, beta info should be kept in the mailing list. Since the 'official' release should be soon, I would hope for more discussion on this at that time. Let's show the guy a little respect, please. After all, we get to use it for the small price of joining the list... Nick

Hi all
Talked to Mark via e-mail. He allowed me to quote his reasons for discussion of the Beta to be restricted to the mailing list:

"Since the program is still subject to change its possible that any information found in the archives of other forums is just going to make things worse for people looking for help."

That being said, Mark has just made the list archives easily available to list members.

He stated further:

"The beta is supposed to be availaible only to list memebers. This is so that anyone using the program will be there to read any important things to say about the program and will be notified of updates, and being beta testers they should be posting bug reports (it's no help to anyone if they suffer in silence)."

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Thanks Mark!

Nick

My apologies to Mark if I said something I shouldn't have. Anyway, my point (first answer to reflash) was that joining the list is the best way to go :-)

Just curious~ Mark, why does the subtext next to your reply on the forum page say "violence"? Were you trying to threaten us or something? grin

It was a poor attempt at humour.

Actually, I thought it was a pretty good one. :)