Forgive me if this topic has been covered in other posts. I've done a few searches, but couldn't find any info on this...

The DAZ FAQ says they strongly recommend Poser 4 with their products because of backward compatibility problems in P5.

Nevertheless, I see lots of 3rd party add-ons for Vicky & Michael that REQUIRE Poser 5.

Also, Curious has some advice on making P5 work with these 2 models.

So is DAZ being just extra super cautious in advising P4 use, or are people really having problems using V&M with Poser 5?

I've got Poser 3 and was thinking about upgrading to 5, but now I don't know what to do... plus the fact that it's hard to even FIND P4 these days.

I'm "cornfused". Can any Poser gurus advise me?

Many thanks.

I don't know of any "backward compatibility problems" with vick or mike. AFAIK, they both work fine in P5.

In fact, with P5's ability to group, organize, and collapse morphs, it's arguable that these morph-heavy figures are actually easier to use on that platform. DAZ's current policy concerning P5 likely stems from a number of reasons, the primary one being that the majority of their customer base still uses P4. Lowest common denominator, y'know. Some of the clothing takes advantage of P4's crosstalk bug (the superconforming "feature"), so that won't work automatically in P5, but you can copy/paste the character's morph dial settings to the clothing manually in a matter of seconds. Material settings might require some tweaking, especially in regard to bump maps and the Ambient channel. Some people initially had problems with Victoria 3's injection pose system, but I believe that issue has since been resolved; just make certain that the morph files are installed in the default P5 runtime, as P5 looks there for them first.

They work fine. DAZ has chosen not to support Poser 5 in lieu of their own competing product coming soon.

Ynsaen, I'm surprised you would say that. You were around when P5 was first released weren't you? Remember the big stink over the EULA? And the prices CL wanted to charge DAZ for mil figures in the face room? It's because of these issues that DAZ never invested in P5. Therefore, they can't test their products with it and can't guarantee they'll work with it. It had nothing to do with DS.

"Ynsaen, I'm surprised you would say that. You were around when P5 was first released weren't you? Remember the big stink over the EULA? And the prices CL wanted to charge DAZ for mil figures in the face room? It's because of these issues that DAZ never invested in P5. Therefore, they can't test their products with it and can't guarantee they'll work with it. It had nothing to do with DS." Correct-a-mundo! CL pissed all over DAZ's strawberries loooong before they decided to release D|S. DAZ, having already been burned over Posette and Dork, rightly declined any further direct involvement with Poser.

I have not had any trouble using any version Vicki or Mike in Poser 5. Any model that uses features that are only available in Poser 5 will have backward compatability problems. To my best understanding the Millenium figures do not use any such features. By the same token almost every Poser model currently available has "backward compatability problems" with Poser 3 and even more "problems" with Poser 1 & 2. Since DAZ is developing its own software I can quite understand why they would have no reason to encourage the use of Poser 5.

All true, however, the decision to not be involved is different from the decision to support. Their strawberries were soggy, but they have (and do) throw out soggy ones for new ones often. They do not support P5 because they have no intention of ding o, now or in the future, and the bad blood between them and CL over those issues was ironed out quite some time ago and everyone made nice. The decision not to support it going forward, however, is based on the development of DS. Which is NOT a bad thing, mind you. Just a decision.

"The decision not to support it going forward, however, is based on the development of DS." You know this for a fact? Where are you getting your information? Last I remember, CL did "massage" the language in their initial EULA, but DAZ was still apprehensive about it and decided not to even purchase it. Even though everyone had made "nice."

The release 3 figures all use and rely on cross talk though to control the JCM's to move more believeable, and poser 5 eliminated that bug from the program, so manually fixingthe clothing in the r3 characters are required. Aside from that they work fine.

"The decision not to support it going foreward, however, is based on the development of DS." ~You know this for a fact? WHere are you getting your information?~ Not as a hard fact but, yes, I know it as a rational assumption that in the course of wranglings in one of the longest threads at Poser Pros-- someone mentioned the unexpected restrictions on competition and a person from Daz-- might have been Dan Farr-- said as a matter of fact we are working on a renderering package. Pennies dropped all over the site, you could hear the unmistakable sound of the second shoe falling. Nothing in the eula for Poser 4 about competition. No problems with using Poser 4 for Daz. You do the math. Emily

Digging in the past history looking for a scapegoat is futile IMHO. The problem is not that one or the other party was rude to the other, the problem is that apparently these differences were not resolved since that. It's sad that one of the primary suppliers of Poser content does not explore any of the features found in the latest release, where obviously there's a huge potential sleeping in it. The V3/M3 figures could look so much better if they shipped with displacement and specular maps, and dynamic clothing props for them would surely sell very well too.

The big Poser Pro EULA debate ran over 130 pages. Curious Labs assured us from the start that the problem really didn't exist. In the end, Curious Labs re-wrote the EULA, and solicited the input and approval of various sources who had been involved in the debate. Curious Labs explained they had to pay an outside service to handle the Face Room stuff, and that is why they asked the fee they did. Curious Labs eventually offered DAZ the service for free. Then DAZ refused the offer, and announced their own product: DAZ Studio. From the start, many people vowed to skip Poser 5 and wait for DAZ Studio. Over a year later, it's still in the alpha testing stage.

They work just fine with my Poser 5. :-)

At the end of the day both companies made their own decisions & are sticking with them, so we have poser4/5 & daz studio. As far as I know Vicky & Mike work in all 3 programs without any fuss except for having to decide where to put all vicky's shoes.

I don't want to argue but I'd like to set the record straight the way I remember it. I agree it's a moot point now, but I don't like untruths fostering and eventually becoming "fact." "Not as a hard fact but, yes, I know it as a rational assumption that in the course of wranglings in one of the longest threads at Poser Pros-- someone mentioned the unexpected restrictions on competition and a person from Daz-- might have been Dan Farr-- said as a matter of fact we are working on a renderering package." Someone mentions another rendering package in one of the longest threads known to mankind which, BTW, was about the P5 EULA, and one is supposed to assume that's the reason DAZ doen't make P5 items? I don't think so; I'll stick with what DAZ actually said was the reason. "Curious Labs eventually offered DAZ the service for free" I don't remember this ever happening. Last I heard, CL said the price was "negotiable." I doubt it was ever negotiated down to "free." "Then DAZ refused the offer, and announced their own product: DAZ Studio. From the start, many people vowed to skip Poser 5 and wait for DAZ Studio." This is way off. DAZ didn't announce DS right after the EULA debates. It was months or maybe even a year afterwards. And "from the start" people vowed to stay away from P5 because of its various problems, not because of DS. As stated, DS was officially announced long afer P5's release. And when it was announced, DAZ stated it would be a loooong time before release. Again, this is how I remember it. I could have missed something; if I did someone please correct me (with fact please or, if it's your opinion, say it's your opinion). I still believe DAZ doesn't develop for P5 because they (or their lawyers) feel they can't because of certain wording in P5's EULA. That is what they said and it also makes sense. Why would the biggest Poser content creator not go forward otherwise? To wait for a program they themselves said was years away? I don't think so.

I think D|S is the end of this community as we know it, you'll be able to use stuff in one but not the other and they'll be incompatable. The community will fragment into 2 smaller entities. The older figures may be able to work in both but the next generation will probably not.

I'm new to Poser--as in, this is my first real day of experimenting. I'm using Poser 5 with Michael 3, and I'm getting a message that "Your selected figure is not a known Poser 5 figure." I twiddled for a while in the face room, then got the same message when I tried to apply the face to the figure.

Is this related to the discussion in this thread regarding compatibility? Chances are also very good that I just don't know what I'm doing. :D

Thanks.

It's kinda related I guess. Anyway, the answer to your question is the P5 face room only works with the figures that came with it (Don, Judy, etc.). No DAZ figure will work, so it's not you ;) Welcome to Poser!

"Curious Labs eventually offered DAZ the service for free" I don't remember this ever happening. Last I heard, CL said the price was "negotiable." I doubt it was ever negotiated down to "free." Yes. This did happen, with notes at PoserPros and here. "Then DAZ refused the offer, and announced their own product: DAZ Studio. From the start, many people vowed to skip Poser 5 and wait for DAZ Studio." This is way off. DAZ didn't announce DS right after the EULA debates. It was months or maybe even a year afterwards. And "from the start" people vowed to stay away from P5 because of its various problems, not because of DS. As stated, DS was officially announced long afer P5's release. And when it was announced, DAZ stated it would be a loooong time before release. Actually, I know that development was being done on D|S before the EULA debacle. Not guessing, and not opinion. I know becuase I was asked about my opinion regarding a potential product capable of such things, specifically from DAZ, via IM, on another site, in excess of one year ago. And probably just lost a friend in saying so, tyvm. Why would the biggest Poser content creator not go forward otherwise? Therein is the issue. Why? Because they believe that their future growth is limited if they focus on producing content for a single application. The market needs to be broadened, and they need to get their models, which are excellent, into the hands of more people, which will require getting out of the "poser" market and the development of an additional market (say, for example, lightwave users, who are just as in love with their program as Poser users are with theirs -- and the two share a lot in common). Furthermore, there is money to be made in the creation of a basic figure posing tool that competes with Poser directly and has the capability to be added to for portability into additional, higher end applications via internal and external development. In short, because it makes better business sense, that's why. Not "nice" business sense, but better. D|S will not kill the Poser community. It will create a rift, it will force change and challenge everyone, but it will not kill it. The statements are not untrue. They are not, however, published, nor are they good PR. And I'm not being hard on DAZ. I have been (and still am on occasion) quite nice about them. Just as I am quite nice about CL and still hard on them. As to the question: figures designed to work in the face room, at this time, are limited strictly to those figures that come with the program, as there is proprietary information that must be included in the figures in order to make them work with the technology involved. This does not mean that Michael and Victoria do not work in P5 -- merely that they are not perfect figures any more than Don or Judy are.

"Yes. This did happen, with notes at PoserPros and here. " Guess I did miss something then. You have any links to where I can read up on it? "Actually, I know that development was being done on D|S before the EULA debacle. Not guessing, and not opinion. I know becuase I was asked about my opinion regarding a potential product capable of such things, specifically from DAZ, via IM, on another site, in excess of one year ago. And probably just lost a friend in saying so, tyvm. IIRC, the EULA hoop-de-rah went on at P5's release, which was well over a year ago. I'm sorry about your friend, you don't have to reveal any secrets here; you can IM me ;) "Why would the biggest Poser content creator not go forward otherwise? Therein is the issue. Why? Because they believe that their future growth is limited if they focus on producing content for a single application." Okay, I'll just give in that you know what's going on at DAZ, what they're thinking, and why they do what they do. Please explain to me then why they're still creating content for P4/PP? And how could making, say, some dynamic hair, hurt them any more than transmapped hair? How about brokering? Why not broker dynamic clothing items? You get my drift. Creating or selling content for P5 wouldn't hurt DS any more than creating or selling content for P4 (IMO). I still believe DAZ isn't going with P5 products because of the P5 EULA. That's what I remember them saying and--so far--I have no reason to think otherwise. Okay, I'm done. You can go ahead and get that last word in now ;)