Ok, I know after starting that long heated debate about no postworking I am opening myself up for a load of abuse here with this but here goes anyway. I have just posted this to the Vue Gallery. The image was a Poser figure imported into Vue and rendered entirely within Vue. I was trying to achieve some interesting lighting effects from within Vue and trying to see how realistic I could make the skin. Most of the credit should go to the suppliers of the props and textures (credits given in the gallery posting). hopefully this image is acceptable as a piece of art even though there wasn't any 2d work done on it at all ;-) p.s. thanks for all the responses to my original thread about postwork, it all made for facinating reading. Cheers and apologies if I stepped on anyones toes with any of my responses! Cheers Stealth1701

Nice! I like seeing pics with no postwork. I can better judge a program's potential.

That looks good. You can get the same kinda thing in P5 without postwork, too. You made me go back and look at my own gallery. Out of 58 images, 36 have no postwork.

... there wasn't any 2d work done on it at all.

What about the signature? ;-)

The only problem I foresee with the postwork debate is that they might want another gallery or category where postwork isn't allowed. Since some of the artists are so skilled at postwork that it may not be detectable, how could anyone prove there was no postwork on an image?

New to Poser and I am seeing this, "No PostWork" term. What does that mean?

No postwork means that the final image was not "fixed up" in an image editing program like Photoshop. Once the scene was rendered in Poser (or in this case, Vue d'espirit), it's done - no color balancing, no blending to fix seams or mesh warping due to posing, etc. Theoretically, the image above is directly from Vue, not opened for any reason in Photoshop (Paint Shop Pro, etc.)

Gee, what app potential is being evaluated? Poser or Vue? Since it was rendered in Vue I'm assuming it's a test run on how well Vue renders. As far as signature goes, a purist could always make theirs and import it onto the scene. That has been done. As far as the render, very nicely done.

I would have to say that it takes a big person to post this thread. I'm proud to say that! This is how a true artist grows in his/her artwork. The members here seem to be open to new mediums and techniques, and then sharing them with others. It makes me glad that I found a second home here... (He trails off here to wipe the tear from his eye) Thanks for sharing this with us Stealth.

Why so much concern regarding "the potential of a software"? If by postworking you achieve great work, doesn't that count as the potential of the first software - to allow postwork? Is there a "perfect" software, afterall?

Thanks Rendy, was wondering that myself. I use lots of different software, but I don't consider myself an ad agency for any of them. I just like what I get out of them. It would also count the potential of the artist, how you use the palette you are given, be it 3D or 2D. Marque

Please don't take this as abuse. But to me her skin and hair are washed out. Postwork is not a crime. :)

Postwork is not a crime.

Oh yes it is!!!!

Without a doubt, this is one of the burning issues of our time.

Perhaps something new....something shining......can arise from the ashes of dried-up, burned-out postworking.

Just like the legendary Phonics....uh, I mean Phoenix.....a new age of no postworking can come to enlighten those of us that have hitherto dwelt in ignorance.

I look forward to the day when the vile practice of "post-working" is but a dim memory......like a nightmare which is forgotten upon awakening to the sun.

Let us not Guild the Lilly.

So be it.

No post work is like a woman not wearing makeup. Or how about actors. They wear makeup. Did you ever notice how perfect an actors hair is in a movie? Try that in real life. Post work is part of the art. Use it, don't use it. It's the artists' prerogative.

" Please don't take this as abuse. But to me her skin and hair are washed out. Postwork is not a crime. :)" Theoretically this could be fixed by adjusting the lighting pre render also, if one were trying to avoid postwork - yes? I'm not advocating one over the other, I'm just talking here. I guess it depends on where you want to spend your time, or accept the challenge - in your rendering software or in your postworking software. To me I'd rather avoid postwork as much as possible (I'm a lazy bastard - so more automated reproducable stuff I can just drop into the rendering software always appeals to me) so it's always nice to see what can be accomplished without it. Unzipped

" Why so much concern regarding "the potential of a software"? If by postworking you achieve great work, doesn't that count as the potential of the first software - to allow postwork? Is there a "perfect" software, afterall?" The potential of the software is highly important to some people. A lot of 3D artists are not proficient in 2D art (nor do they wish to be) and would like to be able to perfect the scene as much as possible directly in the 3D app. Depending on what the app can do, this could mean generating very high quality images that satisfy your vision, or getting totally frustrated at the lack of features to achieve your goal. It could mean the difference between wasting your money, or spending it wisely. It's extremely important to see how far artists can take an application without postwork given what the program offers. Certain things absolutely require postwork no matter what application you use. Compositing and other such common uses for 3D make that a must. However, things like color correction, lighting, skintone, special FX, and clothing CAN be perfected in 3D and not require postwork. It's the power and ability of both the application and the artist that detemines this.

I think people around here forget that not everyone who does 3D art has a desire to become "De Vinci with a Wacom". Many 3D artists come from a CAD background, and beyond painting model textures, have no desire to specialize in photoshop. I think Poser has the largest 2D artist base of any exsisting 3D applicaton. Postwork is all but a foreign word in any of the other forums. (See my post above this one).

I for one rarely postwork. I don't have any art skills. That's why I think Poser is the greatest thing ever.

Ming, you said it best. Imagine diamonds uncut. Eeeek, what horrible stones!

Rendy -- If you've got any spare uncut diamonds lying around loose, I'll be happy to take them off of your hands. If you are looking to give them away, that is.

All right, consider this image. Is there any postwork in it or not? If you can't tell, then how can it possibly matter? If there was a postwork and a no-postwork gallery I could put it in either and who could say that it was in the wrong one? Furthermore, what app was it rendered in? Can you tell? How? (Be warned, the obvious answer is not necessarily correct, there are six apps I have that I could render this scene in.) If you can't tell, then I could put in any of several galleries here and it wouldn't look out of place. Whereas if I flagged it as "landscape" or "abstract" that would be obviously wrong. The feeling I get is that this thread and the previous one on the subject are not really about postwork per se, as a complaint about all the ghastly over-airbrushed Royo-wannabes that clutter up the Hot20 or whatever it's called.

Phantast - you forgot to mention the boobs. When I last looked in the Hot20, earlier this week or end of last, more than half of them were naked, big boobs. I think that automatically gets you into the Hot20.

You tell me, elektra, I don't look at it. I note that no-one has answered my questions. All those people who like to look only at pictures without postwork - is that a picture with or without postwork? Which gallery does it go in, the postwork gallery or the no-postwork gallery? If you want such a gallery you have to be able to answer that question.

Phantast - I puruse it on occassion because on occassion there is a rare gem in there. I'll be honest, I can't answer your questions because I can't tell. But I still view myself as a novice, so someone with a sharper eye may be able to answer you. My understanding of stealth's question/point is if you're final render is mostly Poser, then yes, it goes in the Poser gallery/any other app gallery; however, if your final render is in Poser of only one figure that you then postwork 90% of the rest of it, shouldn't it go in the 2D or Mixed Media Gallery? I understand what that point question is, and I agree with it, but that doesn't mean I think we need to add a post-work/no-post work gallery. A flag to identify such images and the ability to filter or search by it, would be helpful for those who wish to view no-post work images. I also feel that a Poser figure rendered in another app, does not belong in the Poser Gallery. Like I posted earlier, I don't postwork much because I don't know how to do that much yet, but I am learning and as I learn, I may do more. When I see a shift in how much I do, I will then post images to other galleries.

If you can't tell whether an image is postworked or not, and you can't tell if it was rendered in Poser or not, then it makes not the slightest difference what gallery it goes in or how it's flagged. The fact that all the folk who were so keen on this issue have suddenly gone quiet suggests to me they can't tell the difference between postwork and no-postwork when they are actually pushed to it.