We made a good run of it and tried to keep it running, but sadly a few members have turned it into a flaming zone. This site is about ART!, It was never intended as a place for people to attack each other. We might someday reopen it, but only time will tell. This is not up for debate. We hope you all understand why we had to close it down. Thanks Spike

I saw this coming a long time ago...I understand why it happened..and am sad to see it go.. :(

So are we.... It was our hope that we could have kept it open. Sadly, we were fighting a loosing battle....

Sorry, as one person who has never personally attacked anyone, nor ever received any kind of warning ever, I am annoyed that by enjoying my Mother's Day I missed the answer to my question. It seems to me that many of the so called attacks were not intended against a particular member at all, but were perceived attacts because someone felt they belonged to a group who's ideas where being attacked. My question was, Is it considered a personal attack if someone writes ___________(fill the blank with Christians, republicans, dems, liberals, atheists, war mongers, or any other group that fits the thread) behavior is idiotic in the current situation because.... Now, is that a personal attack on a member or is it a perceived attack because someone relates themselves with that group? To discuss or blame a group for a behavior and add documentation to back you up is what debate in a forum is about as far back as forums have existed. The OT forum is a place where people went to vent sometimes and you get all opinions on the spectrum. Losing an arguement cannot all of a sudden be called foul. Now, I haven't read every thread and I am sure there have been cases of trolling and personal attacks. But in the threads that had the mod threats in them, it seemed that the nature of the debate was really the issue. If anyone says the christians might be wrong, some one is offended and it is now a TOS case. If my opinion is wrong, please state clearly how far the translation of personal attack goes. To be fair to the many people at OT who never personally attacked a member, I just think if you are going to annouce that you have shut down a forum you should give some of the details, not leave the rest of the community to believe that a bunch of animals couldn't control themselves. I am now offended!

So where so the OT posts go? Are they just going to stay in the forum that they were posted in?

Granted I don't think I ever posted at OT, but it made an interesting read sometimes... Hmm. If Renderosity's principal focus (or topic) is ART and it opens and /off-topic/ forum, what was it expecting to have discussed there? I guess we could've discussed it in the Virtual Tavern, if that hadn't also been knocked down to make more space for the marketplace :) So: think nice thoughts, chuck stacks of cash at the store and shut up. This is not up for debate. Gotta get the number of your PR firm. :)

That was one place where artists could get together and socialize. Pretty heavy handed actions. I think it is time for myself to be just as heavy handed with my credit card and take it elsewhere.
See Ya!

Im pretty sure the OT posts were meant to go away and stay with the OT forum...wouldn't make sense to close the forum and toss the posts back out into another forum..

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson. I have never attacked anyone on the OT forum. I have never received a warning of any kind. I have, however, expressed opinions. Free, rational men and women sometimes do. I have, in the past been attacked, trolled and even threatened by email by a member who, for some reason doesn't like francophones. I let it pass. I never once complained about anybody's posts. I dealt with it all myself and considered it all 'small stuff". The first time I complained was today, when an ill-advised moderator tried to divide the posters into "good guys" and "troublemakers" based on the members' responses to what seemed to me (I have been away for a few months) a strange admonitory post. This practice was so revoltingly despicable, that I felt someone needed to say something. Throughout the years I have read the forum posts, gained insight into subjects I never would have touched upon. I had some fun with people who have become good friends. I have learned from detractors as well as from people with whom I had affinities. I will miss the old forum, but not the one it had turned into, not the one that would espouse the irrational philosophy I saw implemented today. No. That forum is too late gone and I shall not mourn for it. To all those who populated the OT and that I may never chance upon in other forums, I would like to convey my respects and affection. Farewell. Q

None of the recent threads I read earlier today had any attacks, certainly nothing worthy of shutting down the forum. In fact, the only things on that level happened several days ago, when a couple of threads were locked. Things had actually smoothed out since then. Seems pretty arbitrary to me. So now artists here are not allowed to have opinions on anything except art? The last time, when they shut down the old C&D forum, all the off-topic conversations, and arguments and even anger - just ended up free-floating in all the other forums. It will probably happen again.

BTW, I too would really like to see the answers to barbarellany's questions.

another step in the conversion from a community to a shopping mal. luckily, not all poser communities are so commercial-orientated. guys, see you somewhere else. i just want to thank people who have different opinions than mine, for the endurance they had with me. cy

Just to clerify my question..... From now on where would an OT post go, would it stay in the forum that it was posted in or is it going to get moved to another forum? I hope that makes it clearer.

I don't know why but the story about the "personal attacks" is so similar to the WMDs fable, why????? Bad news for Renderosity and bad news for me as a merchant, because more and more customers will no buy any more here!, the costumers and the artists are very sensible to the CENSURE!

Seeing as this was the only place where I could have great discussions on current events, politics, sex, whatever, (with other artists in particular) I feel a bit heart-broken. Growing up in America those subjects were always taboo. Can't talk about any of that stuff in our schools, in the workplace, at the dinnertable, etc. It's not normal to be so fearful of controversy and differing opinions. Anyway, it's not my site, nor my decision...but I am rather sad about it. Farewell to my OT friends...both on the left and the right. You taught me more than you'll ever know, and I'll miss you. wink Love yas!

From now on where would an OT post go, would it stay in the forum that it was posted in or is it going to get moved to another forum?<<

hey I can answer that :P

OT posts are not allowed! Anywhere! They will be deleted on the spot.

Bad news for Renderosity and bad news for me as a merchant, because more and more customers will no buy any more here!, the costumers and the artists are very sensible to the CENSURE!<<

eh..they dont care. 99.9 percent of the customers aren't even aware that there is/was an OT forum. They just shut it down because too many people were whining (in IMs and email) about being attacked in there. There are lotsa other places to go for OT discussions ya know.

As one who occasionally posted, restrained myself from personal attacks and found the forum both interesting and entertaining, I find this decision ridiculous.

I think the PTB need to be fired en-masse & replaced with people who can actually think for themselves instead of buying into the lost sheep mentality that seems to be creeping into the mindset of those in charge around here. Your TOS is ambiguous at best, or complete crap if you want to see it as it really is. The christian "everything has to be christian or else" bullshit has no place in 21st century society & that includes sites like this. If you really want this to be a site that only christians are welcome to then don't pussyfoot about it banning certain people who don't agree with your collective theological view run a poll & ban everyone who isn't christian. If that's not the case then why the hell are you allowing your religious beliefs to get in the way of you doing your jobs properly?

ps Spike you didn't HAVE to close it down, that was just a cowards way out of the bad situation you admins created & couldn't handle.

"There are lotsa other places to go for OT discussions ya know" They tend to be a lot nastier than the OT forum ever was.

So, because a few people may have gotten pissed (American usage, not British usage) about religious and/or political threads, no more threads on movies, silly news articles, jokes, constructive discussions (eg. the "morning after" thread,) pets, births, etc etc etc etc. I'll bet shuting down that forum pissed off more people than all the troll posts combined. "that was just a cowards way out of the bad situation you admins created & couldn't handle." There's something I suspect all members could agree on.

I also would like an answer to Barbarellany's question.

I see...

What do you do with new Off Topic posts?
Do you move them to PoserPros?

.....what's that you say?....." had to destroy the village to save it " !?......

Well it's been fun. It's a real shame, I've met, debated with and developed real affection for a lot of people from all walks of life and all kinds of places. The idea of artists not having heated debates seems weird. 'This is not up for debate. We hope you all understand why we had to close it down. Thanks Spike' No, Spike, I personally don't understand. I do understand censorship though. No warnings, no requests to tone it down or lose it just 'this is not open to debate' Nice. To all my friends I'll see you in some other forum no doubt, take care and, in the spirit of bad jokes, Sci-fi references and all that did make Renderosity a fun place.....Live long and Render ;)

And there as those that are so blinded, they still deny that censorship exists in America.

I'm hoping the backlash of this act of idiocy will be to hurt Renderosity financially. I doubt it will, but I'm hoping. Speaking strictly for myself, I intend to show my displeasure by not spending another penny with Renderosity. I also intend to spend a lot more time at PoserPros (their Chicken Coop OT Forum can be interesting) and 3D Commune, and to slowly withdraw any and all affiliation with this site.

To all of my regular OT comrades; I have developed a genuine affection for each and every one of you; even the ones I consistantly disagree with and poke verbal sticks at. Mon1alpha, Allen9, Teri, BDC, bonestructure, jchimim, jumpstartme2, Bobasaur, c1rcle, Alleycat169, Hauksdottir, geoegress, Rockatansky, kawecki, aleks, quixote, the long lost Scarab, ChickenHawk in his many ridiculous guises, and anyone I forgot; I salute you. My morning coffee just won't be the same without you. See ya'

"Another step in the conversion from a community to a shopping mall" I think this is the closest we will get to the truth behind this decision. Renderosity is obviously not run as an art community, it's run as a shopping mall where people happen to gather and interact. This makes it different from other 3D art sites. The other sites are built around a community. They interact with the community and they embrace it. They understand that a community sometimes is about discussion, argumentation, exchange of ideas and opinions. They can also handle these aspects of a community. Not Renderosity. Renderosity only wants a shopping mall where people follow the rules to the last letter and behave. No discussions, no opinions. An artists community is like any other community. It lives from the opinions and contributions from the members. To believe that arists only have opinions about artistic matters is ridiculous and naive. Spike, you have to make a decision here. Do you want a community or a shopping mall?

One last thing:

"So are we.... It was our hope that we could have kept it open. Sadly, we were fighting a loosing battle"

is a load of complete horseshit.

The disappearance of both OT and the Tavern suggests a desire to cut bandwidth rather than any high-minded concern about offensiveness. There was never any nastiness in the Tavern. m :(

I'm just sitting here shaking my head.....wondering wth?? No doubt it is Renderosity's choice to have or not have whatever forums they choose......just as its members can post, sell, buy their art here or someplace else. This is a total bummer for some of us that posted daily in the OT forum....but look this is the net, we can post OT anywhere...why not just take the OT forum to a Yahoo site where we can still talk our bs with the people we know and love? It's easy to set up a forum, anyone interested? Could have it open to all, and no topic would be off limits...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=319

As a daily visitor to the OT forum (sometimes posting, but mostly reading), I think this is a bad move - you've pissed off a lot of people by doing this when it was only a few who were at fault. I suggested a while back that there should have been a separate 'politics (and possibly religion)' forum - that suggestion was ignored. Now we all have to suffer heavy handed tactics akin to a teacher making the whole class stay behind because one kid has been disruptive. Shame on you!

You could always hide in the Strata 3D forum ;)

Attached Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rosityofftopichideout/

Lets try this again I have only posted in the OT a few time; and got in trouble twice. Not for attacking an individual, but for expressing an unpopular opinion, and deffending myself. It does seem that the admin's defenition of "personal attacks" means attacks they take personaly. Yes things got heated in the OT, but it was exactly what I would have expected in any forum the descused poliics or religion. I have only been here a few weeks, but rosity has taken a rather desturbing turn tword, and is rapidly heading for ultraconservatisiuom. And daily I see posts by members going elswere to escape from it. I't may be time for the admin to get together and descuss this deturbing trend before many more members go elsware; and take their products with them. Yes, I would like to see the OT reopened, possabley with new moderators; a job I wouldn't wish on anyone, just for the OT. It may also be a good thing for rosity to put out a questionar to find out just what the general consenses of their membership is.

I wont miss it. it had basicly degenerated into a wasteland of "Bush/America is evil" posts. and even when you tried to start a light hearted thread about Dating or boxers VS. briefs you would get two or three responses and the thread would quickly die unless it was hijacked by those angry few who were determined to have no discussions that did not involve the "evils" of Bush/America/conservatives. The moderators tried to keep it civil but level if anger expressed by some just made it impossible.

thanks :) Of course I'll miss the blue and white colors scheme here.....but I'm sure at least one of us is artsy enough to dress up a Yahoo site.... Better join the Yahoo site fast I have a feeling this thread is about to be deleted :(

Art IS nothing more then communication! The heavy handed tactics of the Admin is a pure unadulterated chicken shit response by Spike. How's that for a personal attack!!!! You gutless coward. Every sence he's taken over he has been step by step disassembeling of this sites CORE community. That does it- I'm not buying here or posting any more products. I'll be posting at Rendervisions.com They also have a OT forum. To all my friends I've made in the OT I'll miss you. And yes, like others have said, even when we disagreed, I allways considered them my FRIENDS. I have tons more respect for a strongly held but truthfull opinion then for a spinless coward who crys like a baby "can't we all get just get along"-------pussys Like the opening line in this post says, Art is communication, and the kind of discussions we had really helped alot to spur creativity. This site just lost the LAST good reason to come here- it is now nothing but a huge "yawn fest".

come'on now geoegress tell us how you really feel :) I completely agree with you tho, some of the people in the ot that I disagreed most with is the ones I looked forward to reading each day......I don't think we HAVE to miss anything tho, head over to the site that Kelderek set up at yahoo.

I am Teri :) see you there :)

So a few thin-skinned, immature little weasels got their panties in a twist because they can not tolerate others opinions. (BTW...could someone please point out the "personal" attacks.) Maybe Renderosity should shut it doors and start charging membership fee's since it seems to have the same attitude that pervades a W.A.S.P. country club.
OOOOooooooOOOO! "Personal" attacks! Maybe there should be a crybaby forum for when some get their realities upset.

I am pretty displeased with this news. Now that the OT forum is gone there is really no reason for me to come here anymore...besides occasionally checking out the Cinema 4d forum , but thats it ,but for any of you who want an OT type forums that discuss the same topics head out to the large Dr Who forum ....They have a few forums that are non Dr Who related which are.... ---arc of infinity the media forum--- TV series films music radio science fiction literature media beyond doctor who ---the tenth planet debate and discussion--- politics religion real world issues our serious discussion and debate section on many topics ---paradise towers fun and frolic--- the whimsical & light-hearted side of the forum general discussion on many topics ---the leisure hive private section--- lively and popular section for mature users only The adress to access these forums are... http://www.gallifreyone.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

I don't get it. The OT forum has been pretty calm lately. If people were complaining about being attacked because of what was posted there over this weekend, then they need to get out more.

I resent that...I'm immature and you're oppressing me!...What?

where's that site Teri? I'm planning to join Jettboy & others in boycotting Rosity :)

like the post 3 OT topics in the poser forum and be banned? you set it.. now, with nowhere to post OT, how do you expect to enforce that? your public is waiting.....

Maybe everyone should just post whatever they like wherever they like, they can't ban everyone & keep the site running can they?

geez, how long does it take for yahoo to send a conformation E-mail? this is why I hate dealing with yahoos.

If it's not open for debate everything posted here is mute. Hmm, no thought as to what the members want?

manley- mine took a couple of minutes :)