If you think so, which one do you like the most?

Both were dressed and posed with standard cloth and poses designed by their creators. Girl as everybody knows tries to poke through the dress.

Personally I like Alexa more!!!!!

I don't think GIRL was developed as competition for Alexa. She was created first by Kim Goossens a couple of years ago in Lightwave and was the inspiration for amongst others Alexa. My personal preference is for GIRL. I actually think alexa is ugly by comparison.

I have yet to see a single "female toon" model that I like as much as The Girl. First of all, the Girl was the first. The explosion of "anime / toon" girls we've seen recently was at least 50% inspired by the initial images of The Girl posted in places like CGtalk and others. Second of all... take Koshini for example. Is it just me, or does she always have a "Surprised" look on her face... The others seem to me to be either TOO 'toony', or have a 'toon head on a normal body...

They both have toony faces, but Alexa has a pretty 'human' body. They're both fun. Over all I prefer Alexa, though.

No contest... The Girl. She's far superior to most any other "toon" character out there right now.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=614781&Start=127&Artist=almeidap&ByArtist=Yes

GIRL. I most of the toon figures but GIRL is the best, IMO.

Seriously though I like them both , and I don't think Alexa is ugly.
They both have different advantages and disadvantages.
Girls macho arms and long fingers seem a bit weird to me , but her expression is great.
There are things I would hope improve on both figures.

My picks would be Girl, and then Neftoon Gal. Wish she had gotten more support. I don't have alexa, but from pics I've seen of the model, I don't like her abs as much. Plus I LOVE the expressions that Girl and Neftoon Gal have. Those make the model.

Oh, and the shoulders.. I hate the shoulders like V3 and Alexa have!

"Was the GIRL (DAZ) developed as a competition product for Alexa (3DCommune)?" Actually The Girl was first. The others came after I don't have a favorite really but i do like the Girl she's great for pinups.

the girl wasnt developed as competition... it was the inspiration for all the spinoffs that plagued or graced the marketplace - depending on your perspective. it finally got released at daz when they reached an agreement with the creator. honestly, im kindof sick of the whole toon craze, and expecially koshini. but thats just me -- to each his own. cheerio, -gabriel

I kinda like the toon craze, myself. (Actually a balance between toon and reality is best.)

As long as we are giving opinions (well, me, anyway), I'm going to offer the cutie I've fallen in love with. The little "string-bean" that she is...well, she's just adorable to me. She sits on my desktop at home and she adorns the "rotating" screen saver at work. And she has the perfect name...Staci.

edited just to remove a few extra commas.

Message edited on: 08/24/2004 22:45

I think Alexa is a little more realistic without loosing the cartoon appeal.

Girl is the best model EVER. Besides V2. That is all. - Gazzy!

the Girl - because she is the original. I have Alexa too but never used her, her body looks strange.

Girl is the first of the toon figures that had any appeal to me. Koshini was a nice change from NVIATWAS but her face is so ugly (just my perspective and I know many others love her).

My only issue with Girl is her arms. I'd like to be able to morph them to a more slender look. But otherwise she's streets ahead of the rest in terms of appearance.

Message edited on: 08/25/2004 02:48

1. Alexa is excellent as a crossover between realistic and toon. Her awful shoulders need to be tamed with magnets, but that can be done.

2. Girl is an excellent mesh with great joints and has a gorgeous face but her body is totally toon and almost impossible to morph out of total toon. In appearance almost totally true to the LW original, an excllent Poserisation.
   However she is so stylised that it is very difficult to morph her out of Girlism - the first thing I do with a mesh is make it my own, and Girl is REALLY difficult. The huge shoulders, the tiny waist & hips, the hard-edged breasts.

3. Sara ver 1 is cute, has a very difficult body and odd, lumpy legs. Free.

4. Sara 2 has an odd face. Free.

5. Staci has way too long and skinny legs, but a nice face. Lite ver free.

6. LaRoo is not bad at all but has a very strange butt.

7. Maya Doll is marvellous, very malleable. Some small messy bits and idiosyncrasies, but not serious. Free.

8. Anime Doll as above but not free.

9. Neftoon Gal is the most successful Girl copy by far.

10. Lalala is as ugly as sin. Free.

11. HER is not even close to the original by Pascale - her face is not any good to me. Free.

12. Aiko looks constantly furious and bitter and has the rather unfortunate Steph 1 body mesh to contend with.

13. AnimLisa is a fantastic mesh, the best semi-realistic body mesh of them all. A fine crossover body with a slightly awkward anime face, but still nice looking. If you haven't checked her out, do so.

Did I miss anyone? lol
These are of course just my opinions - feel free to have opposite opinions, you're welcome :o)

The order of appearance of figures on the scene has been:
Aiko, Girl(LW), Neftoon Gal, Maya Doll, LaRoo, Anime Doll, Sara 1, Alexa, Lalala, Sara 2, Staci, HER, AnimLisa, Girl.

:] Fish

Message edited on: 08/25/2004 05:16

Where's animlisa at?

Out of the two I would have to pick GIRL, it's all in her eyes which I think are just beautiful. If I had to pick my fav model though AnimeDoll wins everytime - there's no other model as cute as animedoll (but that wasn't the question so GIRL :D).

AnimLisa is in the MP here. She's by Mobius. :] Fish

thanks!

i had the first version of sara, and thought she was a good ton/comic character (i make distinct view between toon/comic and animemanga such for animedoll...) on the toon department, i think sara is nice anyway :) animelisa really looks nice too, i even think animelisa is one step on each world (comics and manga) and makes a good boundary, but she need more cloth support as many good characters...

"Did I miss anyone? lol" Koshini. I think Koshini v1/v2 are great toon products. VERY easy to work with, they morph decently (actually EXCELLENTLY if you consider the Capsces characters for Koshini are very versitile and unique) and K2 animates extremely well. I think the demand for Toon/Anime characters will only increase. I don't believe this is just a "fad" or Poser phase the scene is experiencing. Reason: money. Toon characters sell good for merchants, but far beyond that, they can make great money for artists/animators... there's much more of a demand for toon/anime style characters in things such as real-world animation (outside of Hollywood FX) and web-based flash animation than there is for realistic human figures. People who want a toon mascott for their website design will pay a respectable amount of cash, or people who are interested in making flash cartoons or even video games will seek out these figures. Toon figures are MUCH easier to animate and appeal more to the masses (the non-3D-critical eyes) than realistic ones do. Just look at the popularity of anime in Japan for a reference. It's BIG business. The Poser-world is just starting realizing the massive earning potential this stuff has for artists. Just my 2 pennies. ;-)

I agree, Maxx. Poser originally was intended for "realistic" characters, but with every new character type, it expands it's possibilites. The realistic characters have been done to death, and there are more clothing options for them then anyone can even remember. Characters like the millenium dragon, the Heavies, The Power Pixie, The toonimals, Shazam, Neftoon gal, Koshini Gang, ect all bring more to the table, and make poser more diverse, and in some cases, much more "fun". I think that's why I've grown into the community on the last year.. Koshini started it for me, because there weren't just boring "normal" characters.

Absolutely my thoughts too, Gareee. Characters like GIRL are just a pleasure to animate. Her facial expressions rival ANYTHING that can be done on V3 or the realistic characters for Poser. Plus, with your morph package (Grrrl) and a little skill in Zbrush, one can customize GIRL to no end. The same holds true for most of the other toon/anime characters too. I know the ultimate goal of most 3D artists here is "realism", but once you do that to death, what's next? In the "real world", the average person who has no interest in doing 3D themselves, doesn't CARE if you can make an image look like a photo. Sure, you might surprise someone by saying "this was done in 3D", but that's about it. Photorealism outside of holywood FX doesn't make much money for artists. Toons/comics/anime/stylistic renders can actually make artists a good living out there in the world. Outside of the 3D community. THAT is the exciting part about Poser's toon stuff.

I wouldn't even just call it toon anymore. It's more super reality, surrealism, characature and a few other things all rolled into one.

The original Sara remains my favorite. Have v2 and the morph to make her look like v1 but haven't got her installed yet.

i love all the toons :D but i think girl is now my favorite,very closely followed by the koshini family :D

" I wouldn't even just call it toon anymore. It's more super reality, surrealism, characature and a few other things all rolled into one." Yep, you're right. Stylistic renders are how I like to phrase it personally. I'm finding a LOT of demand for it professionally speaking. Of course, photorealistic renders do have their place where money can be made as well... architecture visualization for instance (but that really has nothing to do with characters or Poser). Games are becoming more realistic visually, but most of the top sellers are still very stylized, and it's not photoreal yet, and of course hollywood special FX. But my point remains, the opportunities available for using these "toon" characters is really quite abundant and profitable for artists looking to make a living in 3d.

On the subject of games.. I really wonder if one of the gaming utilites might replace poser down the road for us all. UT2004 came not only with it's own editor, but a "crippled" version of Maya, which exported 100% to the game editor. PLUS, for $50, we got not only these, and the game, and a headset mic, but ALSO 80 HOURS worth of Maya and UTeditor training. And the UT rendering engine is FAST (instant) and has amazing effects. My "dream" utility now, would be something with posing and prop placement (like poser), integrated into the UT/Maya game developement system. My wife's actually going through the tutor videos 1 by one, and learning maya and making her own map!

PLUS, for $50, we got not only these, and the game, and a headset mic, but ALSO 80 HOURS worth of Maya and UTeditor training.

You're kidding! Which version of UT was this?

UT2004 deluxe release pack, with the metal box, stickers, and chrome 3d car plaque! It came on DVD (they have a deluxe version available now, but without the junky stickers n such). Actually, we got them from EB online for $44 or so shipped, AND because we were prebuying, they ALSO sent us two online $10 coupons for their web store! I was hesitant in spending almost $90 for a game, but we play online all the time, and it was well worth the investment. BTW you cvannot export the maya stuff to anything but the but editor. I think there's a way to export things from there into "real world" wavefront files, but I'm not sure. You should see some of the new models people are creating. My lastest favorite is a mars attacks martian, complete with sound effects grabbed from the movie, custom hilarious movie oriented taunts, and a great taunt that plays that YoooooHooooo music, and he grabs is helmet, bends over in pain, his head shakes, and his head explodes! Ack Ack!

I wonder if it's still available? Might be worth it, just for the Maya lessons. Besides, I love shooter games. I never got UT because I thought it was for online play only, and I got broadband only recently.

You have to get UT2004! Tons of maps, GREAT eyecandy, and outstanding team based online play. My clan (finally joined them after years of playing with them) plays capture the flag, and Onslaught mainly. (team based goal oriented play) There are vehicles as well. I'd say since it was released a few months ago, we've played an average of at least 1/2 hour a day.. since we don't play every single day, you can see how much we play it. You'll want to get a headset/mic as well, communitcating via voice make coordinating team movement much easier! (Plus you can harass your freinds to no end!) We have a network here, and the wife plays it as much (if not MORE then I do now, and she doesn't really like just "shooters". I'm [DC]Gareee if you do get it. Just make sure you are getting the version on DVD with all the tutorials. You might even find it cheaper on ebay...

"I really wonder if one of the gaming utilites might replace poser down the road for us all."

I guess it's possible, but we're talking some time down the road (minimum 5 years from now), when gaming engines can truly handle the detailed realistic qualities many Poser users seem to demand in their renders. Plus, a gaming utility that's as advanced for developers as 3dsMax/Maya is would be even further off I'm sure, so by that time the standard programs will have advanced far beyond their current state anyway, offering much more to game developement and beyond.

There's no doubt that gaming is the dominant driving force behind the progression of 3D right now. That, and the seamless integration of 3D and real life for movie and television FX. Message edited on: 08/25/2004 09:39

I'd say since it was released a few months ago, we've played an average of at least 1/2 hour a day.. since we don't play every single day, you can see how much we play it.

Hmmm. That might be a good reason not get it. I'm already wasting enough time playing Doom 3! ;-)

Amazon.com has a DVD version, but I wonder if it's the same one. It's only $30. They don't seem to have the deluxe version. Maybe I'll venture out to the mall and see if EB has it.

Uh, have you looked at UT2004, or doom3 yet? It is just amazing how detailed and realistic some of the things are in them. The models in Doom3 are low poly by our standards, but some of the ut characters weigh in at 30,000 polys.. almost the same as lower res poser characters. And they use bones, karma physics, IK ect already as well. If I could get the Martian guy into Poser, I'd be a happy camper. (His textures need to be higher res, but other then that, he's great

The deluxe packs sold out right away. go to atari's official UT2004 forums, and ask around,, I'm sure someone will know who has the set with the tutorials. Plus, you can look at some of the pictures, and see what I'm talking about.

Attached Link: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=bf13df5ce0234d9b8321c88906fcfc5b&threadid=345

Attached Link: http://eliheuer.com/gameart/teamskins640.jpg

Attached Link: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=bf13df5ce0234d9b8321c88906fcfc5b&threadid=406

I have to vote GIRL. If I'm gonna use a toon in a render, I want a toon, not a Vic with toon head which is what Alexa reminds me of. The first time I saw Alexa, I saw just her head and fell in love. Then, I saw her bod and fell out of love. I've not really seen anything of Neftoon Gal but would love to know where to find her. I have Koshini but haven't had the chance to work with her. Kristta

Check out Polymage.com for Neftoon Gal.(And Neftoon Pal, her male counterpart). She also has a toony bod, and neftis is a master when it comes to eye mats, Hair, and expression morphs. She also did a dress for Girl that's KILLER.

yeah neftis's gal is very good too... but it all depends if you wanna stand on freebie or commercial item. sara was free once, that was why i mentionned her. but neftoon gal is really nice. More into the comics/cartoon style, like GIRL and such. but well, regarding neftis's eye mapping, i did not tested neftoon gal, but I had started working on a version of my new eyes for "Elle" and i really had hard time, as a texturer, regarding the way the eye props were mapped :( but i am sure she will correct this whenever she can... Anyway i don't know if Neftoon gal carries at least one share of Elle's facial morph capabilities, but knowing neftis's goal to provide expressive characters, i bet she does !

I'm not sure how Elle's mapping is, but NG's is pretty standard. Her eyes just always look SO good.

garee: do you have a sample texture (a free one) avalable somewhere and a seam guide for eye templates ?

I posted a freebie eye texture over at Polymage in the freebies ages ago. I just looked at what the base eye textures were, and worked based on that. They also have a more V3 like uv mapping option over at polymage as well.

will give a look then, but i already am working on universal version now, and i don't think my work would really suit on comics/toon character such as neftoon gal or sara anyway