The reason for the contests was to inspire our creativity. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, in Renderosity's Mission Statement which reads: Renderositys Mission is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists of all backgrounds. Can Renderosity be any more discouraging? And I checked the TOS and there is NOTHING in there about not having contests. This is so stupid!

Well my mom is over where the huricanes have been and that is important I assure you...but this isn't a forum about hurricanes..and you can't do naything to stop those...this post is about a whirlwind "hurricane" that has hit this community and swept away images that meant alot to many people. Mine have not been gotten to yet...so for the record I have 2....that should go. I am disappointed to say the least in how some of this was handled...I can understand why but am disappointed. I think a more appropriate thing would have been to make a Community wide annoucement that "from this point on" contest will be done this way. Previous to this it was stated more as a suggestion and not as a rule. I understand that it may violate TOS as with any contest there will be complaints and my guess is mod and admin alike get hit with them....and that does "affect the normal operations of the community" I guess....but to go and delete images from people etc is just not right...the entrants nor the contest runners did anything WRONG per say...we were being a COMMUNITY and urging each other on... there are definite problems in this "new" way and I have IMd to see that hopefully this will all get sorted...I mean honestly I just noticed there is an actual "Challenge Gallery" Did you know that???? I sure didn't does that mean challenges will be next to be hit by this. Seems silly to penalize or warn someone for giving away their products or money and just plain aweful to go and delete hundreds of images that were important to people in this community. I really hope there will be a speedy solution to all of this. ann

I do appologize if I've offened anyone. I certainly did not mean to be "tacky" as stated. I too have family in a hurricane ravaged area and perhaps I let that get the best of me. I have the highest respect for this community and all the extremely talented artist that participate within. Hopefully everyone will see the changes they'd like to see take place in this community everyone will be happy once more.

Apology accepted meekinsdh. I hope your family comes through this hurricane safe and sound. They are in my prayers.

There may be a 'Challenge Gallery' but there aren't any pictures in it. Appology accepted - hope everyone you know is ok. I have a close friend in Florida who ended up with an ensuite tree :(

Message edited on: 09/16/2004 19:13

Yeah Hawke I saw that LOL....that is the point I never heard anything about it but yet it's there...does that mean all our challenges will be moved/deleted next??? HMMMM....food for thought LOL ann :O)

Personally I feel that Rendo only did this because people have ignored the contest page...most people have stopped entering Rendo sponsered contests and maybe the PTB felt that the reason for that is more attractive contest are being run in the gallery...I feel that they could have easily addressed the lack of contest images on the contest page either in the forums or newletters or maybe having enough sense to contact the people running the contest and politely asking them to use the contest page instead of basically threatening, reprimanding, and just deleting the competition. Rendo has behaved in a very shady manner...all of this could have been easily resolved without removing images and the irreplaceable comments associated with them...this was a very childish and hurtful manner in which to address a legitimate concern...Rendo wants it's hand in the pot but there were better ways to do this...I suggest that we just boycott the contest page until Rendo formally apologizes for their underhanded and callous actions. -sits in the corner and waits for this to be locked like every other thread rendo disagrees with- Jenn

Now that I've caught my breath, had a cup of coffee, and canceled my therapist appointment. This is what I propose. I am kinda agreeing with Ann. Restore the deleted images along with the contests that's going on right now. If you want stop all future private contests without proper authorization you can do so with future contests. You can actually put this to a public vote. I think that's fair both for the contests organizers and contestants. What's not fair is pulling the contests abruptly without warning. Not only will you create animosity in the community, it will actually disrupt your staff's morale along with your merchants. Come on, if you want changes you got to give us time. JV

Gosh friends, it sure looks like some one is about to start losing customers over this little ditty that they've pulled out of thin air or hidden rules!!! shaking head There's one thing I learned first in working as management in the retail industry, is that you don't p_ss off your customers without trying to solve things in a way that both parties win!! The reason I say this is because just last night I bought something from two merchants at Renderosity's store so that I could participate in Progs contest. No I didn't have to, but I wanted to so that my entry could be the best it could be. Thank goodness I haven't uploaded it yet. I've not entered any of the challenges except one, and it didn't use the word 'contest', so I haven't gotten anything deleted as for as I know. While I'm not personally effected by this silly tactic/action, I'm so sorry that so many of you my friends and fellow artist have lost yours!! You all have my sincere support!! -SeaC-

tink...it's lost...sadly :O( I have 3 a day but sadly when mine get hit I won't be able to repost...they gone...I had taken them off my PC and put them on a CD and the CD was damaged so...poof all gone :O( Just waiting for it...although I could delete um myself but I didn't have the heart to do it LOL ann :O)

Attached Link: http://rendervisions.com

I rarely enter contests, only because I know my limitations. But they have been a fact of life in this community for awhile now. They are fun, they are inspiring. People sometimes do their greatest art in a competition. I've entered a couple...even got an Honerable Mention in one and if I find that that image has been deleted (haven't looked yet) I am gonna be seriously pissed. Ok, so I am already seriously pissed....all that aside...did I wake up in friggan RUSSIA tonight??? I cannot believe this BS. WTF is going on here?? Since when did artistic expression become something that goes agains the TOS here. This whole situation makes me SICK. Someone in TPTB needs to get a grip and realize that the spirit of competion is a part of life, and there ain't nothing wrong with contests. GAWD...now peeps gotta get some kinda sick permission to even hold one??? The more I am here, the more disallusioned I become. I long for the good old days when this site was about ART and the Expression thereof. I am pissed....seriously PISSED>

Well now i am definitely not considering there Gallery Plus service << Actually...thinking about it... How about if the images that were deleted were a part of the "more than one and you pay for 'em" deal here? Would the artists be entitled to some sort of rebate?

Come on people, this is Renderosity's sand box. They can make the rules however they want and can change them every 20 minutes if they are so inclined. They pay for the bandwidth, they call the shots, Period. We are the beggers here. It's not their responsibility to keep an accurate portfolio for you, or document your work, its YOUR responsibility.

Ok Hisminky but without us purchasing or uploading images they'd have an empty big house.

Yes, well the worst reason in the world to do something is just because you can. At any rate, it certainly doesn't help moral in the community, merchants and customers alike~ without which there would be no "Renderosity".

Ok Hisminky but without us purchasing or uploading images they'd have an empty big house<< Its a very bad assumption thinking we are indispensable. For everyone one persoan that "leaves this site for good" three more take their place. So, it's doubtful that they would ever have an empty house. They know it too. Besides, more than 90% of those that "leave this site forever" eventually come back, even if they are banned in every known incarnation.

Hisminky, that's all well and good if you don't pay for hosting, as many people do here. That being said... I am very sorry to everyone whose work is deleted. I hope this is cleared up - and that the pictures are restored. RC

yep, Renderosity's sand box, which would be empty without members, and one way to get members to go away quickly is to not be predictable as far as what is OK and what isn't. Another is to delete images with out warning. People like to deal with businesses that they can trust.

Hisminky, I disagree, this is not a sandbox, this is a business site. It is all about money pure and simple. They make money from advertisments, from a portion of the sales and probably other ways I have no idea about. And as a business they want that almighty dollar, we (the posters) are the consumers if we do not spend our dollar here, yes they will listen or go out of business. Look at what Sears did years ago, took away the floor help, downsized, customers were disenchanted and took their money elsewhere. Causing them to reevaluate their policies. Will be the same here when the customer gets upset and does not return. Takes awhile but that is what will happen. We are not the beggars!! As far as portfolio's go, I would bet that 99% of everyone here has their works backed up in at least one other way than in their galleries here.

Actually we sorta pay for the bandwidth when WE as customers buy through this store.. People offer Gift certificates as gifts.. that money goes into rosity as well.. i really don't understand how come they couldn't send out a mass emailing or atleast msg the actual people RUNNING the contests and let them know.. instead of deleting everything and the put a warning on everyone. It really does seem unfair.

{stares in shock} unbelievable to me. I have on at least three occassions bought something specifically because I wanted to use it in one of the contests! this is just so sad! jen

I think JenyK needs a holiday.

The galleries were not meant to be a place for contest, and contest there will not be allowed and would have never been had we even known. If someone wants to sponsor a contest, there are proper ways to do so. Renderosity could be held legally liable for something we didn't even approve or know was going on. The TOS does address a general term for using the site improperly. "Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service)." When developing a Terms of Service, there is no way to know of every single way our service, site and tools could be misused. I will be updating the galleries info tomorrow to make sure everyone is clear. I've found a total of 6 contests (so far) in the galleries, which just started in the last 2 months. I'm cleaning them out so future members won't attempt to have independent contest outside of our approval and procedures. This is for everyone's protection, Renderosity, contest sponsors, and contest participants. I've notified those holding unauthorized contest to go through the correct channels so they can still exist. Renderosity loves having contest and we don't want to discourage anyone from sponsoring one or participating in one. However, we have to know there going on and they need to use the part of the site that's built for them. Images (if they don't break the tos are okay to repost with a title of it's own (instead of whatever contest) and no reference that it's a contest entry. This is for consistancy sake. We will be working with the members & merchants that want to sponsor contest to get them in the contest area. Thanks for all the understanding and not jumping to conclusions :) Jenifer Renderosity Admin

Oh, please! So what if this is their sandbox? They're the ones who said we could come and play here. Whatever happened to just friggin' common courtesy and letting people know there was going to be a change in how things were done and giving people a chance to make the changes as well? I don't consider myself indispensable but I do consider myself part of this community as I have for the past six years.

As much as I hate to say it, Hisminky is right. Their sandbox, their rules. And they can change them with no input and with no warning. Of course, doing so will make more people leave. The really bad thing is the only to show dissatisfaction is not buy from the Renderosity store. That would get the 'sity's attention, but it'd also hurt the merchants that are exclusive here.

Thanks for deleting my Posts. Censorship is so fun....

Renderosity is well known for its strange and unpredictableness. If you're looking for a new place I suggest www.rendervisions.com

I think you went beyond discouraging contests for me, I don't think I will ever enter a Renderosity contest again after the way you delt with this. Why would I want to repost when you could think of a new reason tomorrow to pull the image again without warning. Disgusted.

PandyGirl, For the record, I did send message the actual people RUNNING the contests and let them know.

contests have been held in the gallery for as long as I have been a member.. there never seemed to be a problem before.

One of the reasons I hardly ever post in this site anymore. Not a community anymore, just a strict business run as a monarchy. Contrast my participation here with that of another forum I attend more regularly where post counts are recorded and I've posted almost 3,000 times in less than 2 years. To me, this place is just a store. That's about it these days. I give this site the same consideration I give a flyer in Sunday's paper. (which, of course, I assume, makes them fat and happy..."Give me your money and don't cause problems)

I think the term here is "customer relations"

eg

informing everyone that this is against the terms here and giving them a chance, say 48 hours, to rectify it.

that way ppl actually feel wanted here and don't feel like they have no say whatso ever.

I, of course, refer to the site as it is called in it's logo "art community" - maybe time for a change in that terminology?

Message edited on: 09/16/2004 20:14

Hey what happened to Paintgirl's last post??!!?????? I was just reading it...

ok, apology accepted, but I must say something. I lived through BOTH hurricanes and have been without basic ammenities like power, phone, etc for almost a month between the two, closed up in a house with flooding waters outside and over 90 degree hot muggy weather. Don;t you think us, the ones down here in Florida, that frequest this place, deserve a little enjoyment from the dreary existance of life this past month? To have ones images deleted and all those comments and excellents and pats on the back is just another devastating blow in my humble opinion. This is supposed to bring enjoyment from that pain, not more pain and sorrow. ok, off my soap box, but I just HAD to post an opinion that sheds a little different light on this particular comment blessings Spiritfoxy

Why fight cityhall, afterall their Monday seems to come around pretty fast. It is indeed sad to deal with your paying customers in this manner, it still stinks!!!!!!!!!!

JenyK has told me that her IMs are personal Messages and not allowed to posted in forums. So if anyone wishes to read them, contact me.... Have a happy and sunshine filled day =+}

Right, because then she'd have to explain why she told you you had til monday, but then yanked the images immediatly anyway.

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com/index.htm

I hope then that Renderosity will consider some of the more original member contest ideas in the future if we are to go in this direction. I found the "H&H" contest to be quite interesting and unique, and was considering entering it just to challenge myself. I have a feeling that the usual Renderosity-approved contests will require no nudity, no violence, and the use of a product from the Marketplace...which is fine, but there should be variety. I also don't quite see how these contests really effect Renderosity when it's members who are supplying the prizes. The entrants all seem to know that these are not "official" contests, and I haven't heard anyone complaining about the results of past ones. I owe my best and favorite image to a contest recently held here, as I would not have finished it otherwise. Just my thoughts as always. I'm usually quick to defend this site from the usual whiners, but I do agree that this could have been handled a lot more smoothly. SnowS

Well at least that would give us time to move the contest to another site.....

Yeah, I really like your Merchant and Freebies section, some of the best Ive seen!

There isn't a person in the world who could possibly have interpretted the TOS to imply (let alone state) that running a contest in the galleries was not allowed. This has been handled in such an unfair and unprofessional manner, not giving anyone any kind of heads up before taking these drastic steps. I can't imagine how it could have hurt anyone to have posted a story on the Renderosity front page stating that "From now on, contests MUST be handled in this manner..." and then explained the exact policy. I know that admins and mods regularly look in the galleries and MUST have known that these contests were being held. EVERY contest invariably has at least a couple of images make it to the Hot 20 page. Why all of a sudden this had to be handled this way MUST be explained before any fences can be mended! jen

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com

now how can one resist such tempting tidbits from Planit3D? smile must meander over there now...

Well JenyK, I have to admit that in all my years of being in the business sector, that is the most feeble attempt at explaining away an ambiguous clause as ever I've seen. I won't even mention the unprofesstional manner with which you've approached this whole situation. What that clause now dictates to me is that any posting can be deleted simply based on an administrators perception. I'd dearly love to know what 'reliable' sources have been sought for opinion before such an outlandish act, such as deleting images and comments, was both deemed necessary and actually carried out.

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com

"A forum to host your challenges and contests in. Announcements in the Contests and Challenges forum please.
Normal P3D TOS applies"

You all seem to want this service - We look forward to seeing your artwork in our galleries real soon.

Message edited on: 09/16/2004 20:31

Well personally if this they way they choose to run things with no respect for the customer, then fine. I'm voting with my pocketbook, I've ponied up a hefty chunk of change here, some of it from gift certificates that I purchased for contests I've run. This may be their site and they may be able to set rules that they don't inform people of, but I can also say that I will no longer purchase here if they do not something to make up for this. I will stay here since this is still a useful community with many nice helpful people, but their will be no more mney spent here by me. If you won't respect us...maybe you'll respect our money. Well, better get this out before it get yanked to some forum that hardly sees the light of day.

OK just to let you know...Shoshanna in the Contest Forum has been EXCELLENT and the H&H Contest will be posted there...and will procede. There are no changes to anything at all save one thing by hosting it there...and that one thing was that you can post the image in the gallery but no comments or rankings till after the contest is over....nudity etc is all still allowed and anyone wishing to run/sponsor a contest shoshanna has been incredible and helpful...the juging is as you want it to be etc...only it is in the contest Forum and overseen by them :O) Still doesn't aleviate everyone's upset but atleast we have an excellent contest coordinator to work with :O) As for the rest of this...just rediculous...not fair to anyone at all....and even more unfair to all the participants that were caught up in all this for entering and working so hard...just sad :O( ann

I wonder if the Rendo's comics challenge and contest area is violating copyrights laws. I think JenyK's explanation of copy right issue of Paintgirl's contest was weak. (I was reading Paintgirl's post that mysteriously disappeared after I refreshed). I smell a double standard.