Attached Link: http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Section/Content&sid=1047022946165&cid=104702

Zhann, Im getting the site but not the article for some reason. In any case, I dont know if I should be happy for you and PSP users in general or sad. I dont know if this is a good thing given our experience with Corel and Bryce. I would think they got the money from the sale of Bryce to DAZ. Wish you guys all the luck!

:( I like my psp just the way it is. :-D oh guess I don't have any worries, not like they'll do anything with it, lol.

Not with their track record, Ang, no. :^D

hahaha yea its very doubtfull, they will most likely make a differnt box for it and sell as is, and make promesses and crap, then do nothing to it, then sell it ....do I see DAZ buying JASC too lol j/jk :)

Well...i'm still a skeptic on the benefits of Daz Bryce...who knows if THEY'LL do it right, or just turn it into a poser-whore? It's one of those things, we'll just have to wait and see. Corel doesn't have ANY other 3D applications that i know of, but they do indeed have other image-editing software out there, so this might be something that they've got the guys to be able to do something really cool with. And if they screw it up, your current versions work just fine :D

Far from not doing anything with it, Corel made a very good version of Bryce; version 5 - the one most of us use happily to this day. If sales of Bryce had been rewarding, Corel most certainly would have continued development. They didn't, so we can assume sales were not sufficiently rewarding. The jury hasn't even retired on DAZ yet. To mix in another metaphor, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Oh Swell,..........darn Canadians,.....maple syrup swilling squirrel worshipers.(This post is not intended to offend any Canadians in particular or as a whole and is not meant as a national slur. [please refer any and all hate mail to draculaz, as he is a diplomat]).

No wonder psp9 was rushed out, beta testers will know what i mean!

Uh, sackrat? You have us all backwards; we're squirrel swilling maple syrup worshipers. :P

This was good link from that other thread. http://corel.rsc01.net/servlet/cc5?8hjLtQYYYABQSTVumllkxJhzfQgLlVaVS

Well...I actually think PSP will have a better future with Corel than Bryce did. Corel has had MANY products, for many years that dealt with 2D, so they already have a work staff that is working in the same direction/area of PSP, so that's good. Hopefully they will keep updating PSP over the upcoming years, and not assimilate it into "Corel Paint". AS

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1966063

To develop AgentSmith's points from the thread in Zhann's link: Painter enjoyed continued development by Corel. Bryce did not. Why? Because Painter rewarded the investment and Bryce didn't. Bryce5 was good. It just wasn't good enough in the face of enormous competition (Vue, Cinema, TrueSpace, etc) to sell. Painter hasn't really got any competition. It is excellent and almost unique. Bryce's primary problem wasn't Corel. Bryce's problem was (is) that it was (is) no longer special enough. I pretty much doubt that DAZ can make Bryce interesting enough on its own terms to recapture its one time lead, but rather think they will concentrate on increasing its user base by way of their (current and future) Poser* user base. This doesn't automatically make future Bryce bad. I just don't think it can ever be "that good" again. * We're going to eventually have to get out of the habit of using the 'Poser' word to describe 'figure content'. Poser isn't DAZ and DAZ isn't Poser. DAZ want to beat Poser into the ground. Maybe they should hire draculaz. ;-)

PSP is great, I use it as my primary image editor and I think it's great to have Corel taking it over.

A couple of points, Corel is under serious new management. These chaps had nothing to do with the fiasco caused by the former top man and his trophy wife with their spending addictions. PSP stands a better chance. PhotoPaint rocks! Serious power. I think they are looking for a lower end app for those who don't need the whole CorelDraw Suite. In this I believe PSP will be quite a good fit for them. Maple syrup is a major component of the sugar food group. (right along with the grease, alcohol and caffeine food groups) and was give to us Canadians as asacrament from the gods! Tree rats, hmmmph! Still they are more entertaining than pigeons. (grin)

It won't affect me. I have Paintshop Pro7, but I won't upgrade to 8. I much prefer Photoshop.

Well I am dying to upgrade from PSP6, so if you're not gonna be using 7 then I'll gladly take that old thing off your hands ;)

I've barely scratched the surface on Photopaint (found out it can do layers..now all I have to do is figure out how to use them..(found a 600-page book on Corel Draw, but there's nothing on Photopaint in it..;) alas..;) Don't worry about Canada..been there twice, and the only rude folks were Customs (but they're hired that way..all over the world..;)

Wow, good to hear comments about Photo-Paint, I actually know nothing about it. Maybe, it will all work out greatly for PSP users, I hope so! PJF - Bryce being "good" again. On a level you're on to something, meaning the 5.5 upgrade will make a large number of exsisting Bryce users happy (not all, but a lot), it will also make Poser/Studio users happy, as they will have a renderer with more/better features. But, it's 6.0 that will help make Bryce "better", in the way you speak of it. Better as far as a leap in progression, etc. Yet...as far as a lead goes, Bryce has held a lead over other landscaping programs all these years, even though it hasn't had but the one (5.0) upgrade. Beacuse it is so unique, is my guess. That and the near obsessive loyalty of its users. I really wish I could find out what issue # it was, but Computer Arts had a top 10 most popular 3D programs list, and Bryce was still in the top 5, even after all these years of neglect by its former owner. And, it because of something PJF (and many others) has mentioned at one time or another, it because of the users that Bryce has truly stayed alive. We love it. AS

Mojoworld 3.0 is coming out soon, I have 2.0 and I'm thinking of upgrading....looks cool..

It's VERY cool. I got a beta copy at Siggrah. MUCH eaier than 2.0, imho. Cool stuff. Perfect for planet making. AS

=)

I really wish I could find out what issue # it was, but >Computer Arts had a top 10 most popular 3D programs list, >and Bryce was still in the top 5, even after all these >years of neglect by its former owner. Buyer's Guide, Issue 101, with Le Freak. :-) Down on the page 96. It has four stars, just like Vue 4 Pro, and Mojopack has three. World Builder isn't on the list. Terragen either.

After what Corel did with Bryce I think we can all kiss PSP goodbye until such time as they decide to sell it to Daz or Adobe.

I use PhotoPaint all the time for my post work and for my photography (it is my digital darkroom). If anyone has questions I can't promise to have the answer but I will try.

Message edited on: 10/15/2004 06:43

hehehehe...I recieve a mail from Corel today. about this..And in the same time they show me A global and efficient product range at attractive prices... How can they compare Adobe creative suite with coreldraw graphic suite ( Somebody make some professional Advertising or graphic Design with this?)...or photoshop with paint shop Pro... hehehehe There are adobe with professional product and corel for amator. I payed 1000 Euro for the creative suite and you will give me for free coreldraw that i will put it away.... no thanks..... Thanks corel because you have a great sens of Humor.. lol What is the best for everything is avaible only in USA.. I'm leaving in Europe....So stupid....guys.. hehehe

Eh, I actually took a course on Corel Draw (how I got into this madness, originally), they had 4, I bought the Student version 8, with Corel Draw, Photopaint, Dream (a 3d nightmare..no export to speak of..;), and a couple other things..still using it today..it was more of an illustrator's package back then. Mebbe they're doing to PSP what Oracle's doing to Peoplesoft..;)

i use fireworks from macromedia now and its great has good structured drawing tools great for making masks on bumb maps etc. and web related stuff too is great

PJF, Corel only added the tree lab and metaballs as I remember it to the already existing Bryce 4. I remember updating to Bryce 5 for that reason only. In my mind, Corel would have had better sales of their Bryce 5 program if they had kept up with the updating. Instead for years they let it dilapidate into no-mans-land with no further program improvements and with that came the bad reviews triggering a fall in sales. At least, thats the way I see it. Hopefully, they wont do the same thing with PSP. Sometimes companies buy up other programs just to drive them down and eliminate the competition. Case in point, AOL buying Netscape while in collaboration with Microsoft to help push Internet Explorer and putting Netscape on the backburner. Im not saying that this is what Corel has in mind for PSP, but judging from what they did with Bryce, they might as well have. LOLdoes anybody know if Vue paid Corel a kick-back to suppress Bryce?

I used to do graphic arts work for a successfull commercial job printing shop before I went into aerospace (we increased the business by a factor of 10 when I was there). I had to produce! and in head to head comparisons between Adobe and Corel at that time, Corel kicked Adobe's ass (I owned both (and Quark)). The main thing for me was that given the relative equality of the tools, the user interface and output controls in Corel worked much better for me. Thus I have moved to Corel products. I have since (as an amateur) done several advertising brochures, a text book with associated work books and various letterhead/envelope/business card sets for various folks to keep my hand in. Now I don't own the latest Adobe suite so I can't say for sure if this still holds true, but Corel gives me all the tools and power to do what I need. I also do all my photography through it now as well rather than using a traditional darkroom. So please, before making assertions on the utility and value of a program, state that these are your personal opinions and put up some background so that we may judge the value of them. Richard

As far as Corel suite goes, while doing freelance CD cover work and advertising for small businesses I used Corel extensively right through Corel 6. It makes an excellent illustrative package and can compete comfortably with Adobes Illustrator and Photoshop. During that time, the Mac was the undisputed king of graphics tool, it had very little to no competition in the PC world and was widely used, and still is used, extensively throughout the printing industry. Adobe replaced Photostyler with Photoshop by buying them out and squashing them and poof, Photostyler disappeared from the face of the Earth making Photoshop king of the hill. Once learning Photoshop, I familiarized myself with Adobe Illustrator and retired Corel. I simply feel that Photoshop is more versatile than Corel as an image editor. Ive had very little experience with Quark but have seen it in operation in the color printing labs when some of my lettering work needed to be retouched. For font printing projects where lettering needs to be top shelf, then Quark, Corel, Illustrator in that order, is best for the job, IMO. P.S. I also, on occasion use PSP.

Quest, my apologies. My rant was aimed at another. BTW I still have my copy of photostyler (grin). I am currently using CorelDraw graphics suite at version 11.

Incarnadine no apologies needed, I realized that your rant wasn't directed at me. I just felt upon reading your post that yes, generally speaking the "good" name of Corel has be besmirched. Whatever happened between Bryce and Corel should not be taken as indicative of all products Corel has produced. It was an attempt to even the keel and put things in perspective. Of course this does not detract from what I consider the injustice Corel has wittingly or unwittingly brought upon Bryce and its users and the sour taste of it as a consumer.

Quest, very much in agreement as to Corel's behaviour regarding Bryce. The problem is that Corel's founder was a good man to get things going but like all entrepeneurs he didn't know when to step back and let a more specialised management team run things. As a consequence, he in conjunction with his success going to his head IMHO, got Corel into a serious financial mess. As a consequence, Bryce got left behind as they had to retrench given shareholder dissatisfaction. In someways it is better for the long term future in my opinion now that Corel has been taken private.

Nothing like a good old corporate shakeup to set things straight. Well, I do hope it does anyway for the sake of PSP and its users.

Me too.

Attached Link: http://www.marchand2sable.ch

Fair enough, I appreciate your response and its tone. I may not agree completely but I can respect your opinion a lot more. Thank you.

"PJF, Corel only added the tree lab and metaballs as I remember it to the already existing Bryce 4.

tree lab
metaballs

soft shadows
depth of field
blurry reflections
blurry transmissions
true ambience
network rendering (platform independent)
control over ray depth and internal reflections
improvements to light controls
major improvements to terrain editor GUI

It's also worth remembering that the already existing Bryce4 had been updated by Corel to version 4.1, wherein they added gradient lights, new texture/material mapping modes (Sinusoidal, World Front, World Side, World Cubic, Object Cubic), support for custom star fields, and additional import/export plugins. For free.

Corel did its bit in the story of progressing Bryce. I'm sure it can be fairly slagged off for all sorts of reasons, but gratuitous neglect of Bryce isn't one of them. It came down to the bottom line. Those programs that delivered a sufficient return on Corel's investment were supported; those that didn't weren't.

All this happened at a time of steep competition in the 3D market. The prices of senior, professional programs plummeted, with some even offering free versions for non-commercial use. Full modelling and rendering applications like Carrara, Cinema and Amapi were available for free on magazine CDs; and damn near free via other offers. It's no wonder that Bryce found it tough going in that environment, particularly as it faced the strong and direct competition from Vue.

The bottom line also decided the 'wilderness years' for Bryce. Corel had to maximise return on their investment, and that led to the discounting and the long wait for somebody to come along with enough money to buy the property.

There's no sense in blaming Corel for that brutal economic reality - you might as well blame DAZ for taking so long to getting around to buying it. Considering the cynical treatment sometimes metered out to software by corporations (including Corel), I'd say Bryce was actually treated with some respect by that company.

I speak as someone who is a long-term user, and fan of, 'Xara'. I have every reason to 'hate' Corel and to regard its every move with suspicion. Indeed, if I were a user and fan of 'Paint Shop Pro', I would right now be abandoning all hope for its independent existence (long term it'll be asset-stripped/amalgamated into a Corel range of image manipulation programs serving beginners to professionals). But I don't see that corporate cynicism applied to Bryce. Bryce exited Corel alive and intact.

DAZ didn't buy some rotten, dead thing with nothing but worms and centipedes crawling through its empty eye sockets. It bought a viable, functional, stable and popular program that still leads the way in user friendliness for 'normal' people (computer/techno illiterates); and until Vue5 launched just recently, was still the overall landscape/consumer 3D leader.

I'm not offended in the slightest by the Corel logo appearing when I fire up Bryce. My hope is that I'll be feeling the same way about the DAZ logo in the months and years to come.

PJF, ahhhhhthanks for the memory refresh. Nevertheless, Corel let the product and its followers down with no changes or upgrades up until now that DAZ has acquired it after all this time for whatever reason. Corels bottom line is not the consumers job to watch especially when to the users that spend their hard earned money on a product that would be left to die after a prolonged period of time whether or not it is deliberate. It manifests itself to the public as having no concern or responsibility for the product, the consumer and poor management. There are many other software companies out there surviving under the same adverse economic conditions that managed to pull themselves together and deliver above board products and provided their users with timely upgrades during that same time period. Im sure all Bryce users will be watchful and spend their money based on what is offered as you say, with suspicion.

Must admit I still have corel draw (version 9 IIRC) on one of my machines. Photopaint was a serious ccontender to photoshops crown for a while and some of the tools such as the meshwarp and some of the tonal controls seemed superb compared to what else was around, but work uses photoshop, and I have a huge great store of handy plugins :) I also user painter, but I've never tried PSP, a few of my friends seriously rate it, I hope corel can bring back some of their more cutting edge innovation that they used to have and do some good work with it.