Okay, im not really sure if this would be the place to put this post, but I didnt see any better place, so....here goes. This is not my usual account and name. I made it so that I can freely say what i need to say, and pull no punches. I am hurt and disappointed in Renderosity. I feel as though i am back in high school, running for a popularity contest. In all my time here on rendo, and trust me its been a while, i think i have maybe gotten 4 truthful helpful comments on my work. yes all artists love to hear you like their stuff, but it rings hollow when you see the same person saying the same things on EVERY image in the gallery. It makes me feel less like a part of a artistic community that i joined and more like a little school girl/boy who gets their butt kissed for a vote, or a free item, or more comments. I go often to the top 20 and see the same stale images, over and over and over. every now and then a unknown will be seen, but quickly gets dropped off the list. I think the vote process of the top 20 is worse then the ballots in florida. I would like to see a impartial jury of my peers once a week vote on the top 20. I would like to see some of my favorite little known artists get their day in the sun, and the props they deserve for the original and creative pieces they share with this community. I would like to see a image that needs work, filled with comments to better that artist....not stunning! beautiful! excellent! and then see that image in the top 20. I truely dont believe the top 20 reflects the best of this site. If i knew that the top images on this site and the most favored artists were already pre-destined...i wouldnt have joined. i understand that tastes vary...and im damn sure they vary past those very same stale images that are always on the top. lets see something new! lets see something original! lets be honest! rant over. to all those who speak what we all think out loud, thanks, and very courageous!

I understand how you feel, but it is a shame that you feel you have to create a different name to view your opionion. You have that right to voice your concerns and this is a place where you can freely share it. Of course not all will agree with you, but welcome to the world, that is everyone else's right also. I just feel bad mostly that you felt you had to create a different name. Sharen

ill get this out of the way ;) this name is because i dont want my own gallery, comments, or if i ever decide to be a merchant, my items affected by my personal opinions and views. besides, who i am really is not the issue. what im saying is ;)

While I certainly understand your feelings, I'm afraid I don't agree with you.

It seems to me that this community is more about "what we make of it" than anything else. While tensions often rise and fall here, and certainly different people have different motivations for their continued presence here, I don't think that it's necessary to breed hostility based upon how others express themselves.

In a book called Illusions by Richard Bach, the author points out that in many ways, we each have complete control over our own live. We determine how we feel about things. While some people prefer to view life as a series of catastrophes and injustices, it often does them little good, and brings little happiness.

Personally, I wonder why it is so important to be included in the Hot 20. In my time here, I have made some strong connections with good and intelligent people. When I produce a work, it is their opinions that I ask for, not the community at large.

In doing so, I have seen my efforts with Poser improve, so that much of my current work is now often indistiguishable from some of the works my friends are producing in softimage.

I understand that you are upset, but I think it is important to understand that nothing you can say, no political movement or well-intended campaign, will change the community. People are who they are, and you cannot change them.

However, you absolutely can change how you interact with the community. You can put less priority on acknowledgement and more priority toward accomplishment.

You can take a negative feeling away with you after every gallery search, after every topic reply, or you can choose to see something positive around every corner.

It is very nice to hear your thoughts. I certainly agree with you on many points, but knowing that things are the way they are does very little to improve my work, or further my goals.

I hope you can step away for a time and find a good reason to continue within the community. Every voice helps us to grow and change.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace,
Jean

I don't think I've ever been in the Top 20, I know I've only looked at it once since I joined back in 1999! I don't care about what's popular, I like to see what's new and in my favorite genre's so that's about all I take the time for. Comment's to me are just that, comments. When someone comments on my images, woo hoo! Somebody actually commented on my image! I could care less if they're telling me it's sheit just so long as I know they looked at it and it moved them enough to actually say something. If I want to improve my style or abilities, I use the forums and ask for help with stuff. What I post in the galleries is just eye candy as far as I'm concerned with just about the same amount of nourishment. If I want my abilities fed, I get fed here in the forums by asking for help when I'm stuck. I think people take the galleries too seriously anyway. Galleries are for Show, Forums are for tell, at least that's how I go through my life here at 'Rosity!

I have generally kept quiet about this subject for several reasons but maybe now is the time to voice my opinion. I have - to my knowledge - made it into the Hot 20 once. Wow, big deal. I get a respectable amount of comments on my images, nothing outrageous, but not bad. I know plenty of artists who make it to the Hot 20 most of the time, and who get many more comments than me. One of them is a personal friend, and I was the one who twisted this particular artist's arm into displaying their work here. This artist has become extremely popular because they bloody well deserve to be, because they are very fucking good. Another artist who is rather popular - and also a friend - makes totally different images from the first one, and although they seem to attract a lot of positive comments, does not make it to the Hot 20 very often. I will always leave a comment on their work, though. It seems only fair. When I have a "helpful" comment to make, I make it. But if an artist I like posts a picture that I happen to think is great, I will say so. Sometimes it's hard to say anything more than "Wow, that's damn good". Thing is, some artists are more popular than others for a variety of reasons. Some are more "original" than others in a variety of ways. That said, original doesn't always equal good, and good doesn't always mean original, and a well executed image may contain a lot more originality under the surface of what others may dismiss as a pretty picture. So, I feel kinda peeved about the blanket "stale images" statement because I know just how much work and thought some of the artists put into what they do. Short version - shut yer gob and make art. Fuck the critics, post your pictures and if somebody likes them, great. If they don't at least you still have them.

I think it would be great if People would just post some their art in the "Mixed Mediun" gallery. I hate to see overfiltered and Postworked to death art dominate the Poser Gallery. JMO, but it would be nice to go the gallery andview something that catches your eye and be able ask the artist about his/her technique. Maybe they would share and give you tips.

Well you have heard from some top members here, and hopefully it has helped you. I also have been here for eons....I have made the top 20's only once...made me smile...but all it all, I post because I am proud of what I make. If I get a good comment (great), if I get a bad comment (great), if I get a critique that helps or hurts (great), it should not matter. But I guess it does to you. As I said before, changing your name is part of the issue...small part, but still a part. You should stand tall for what you feel and not hide behind a different identity....but hey that is me, you do what you are comfortable with. Sharen

I wish I could sympathize..but I can't. Hiding behind a fake name doesn't help either o.O I could give a rats ass about the Hot20 in ANY gallery. So if you are there I'll never see it. The question I have for you is why is it so important to you to be in the HOT20, that to me is very high school, wanting to part of a "clique". I mean really, it's not like your going to get a job at Pixar/Disney or anywhere else for that matter because you are there.

This discussion happens in several forums, 3 not including this one come to mind. Who cares! I do art for me, if others like it great, if they don't they are free to passover it. I passover a lot of genres I don't care for, the artwork might be great, but since I don't care for that genre, I'm not even going to begin to critique it, as I'm already jaded, if you get my drift.

I have NO objections to criticism whatsoever, I appreciate if people point out things I have missed...ie...repeating textures/poke thru, I've forgotten to take care of, lighting sux etc.

Message edited on: 10/22/2004 19:18

Just one last comment on this thread. I know my theme is very narrow. Generally it's targeted towards Fan's of Lost in Space, and they're a small and not very vocal minority, so if I get 1 comment I'm doing a happy dance for the rest of the day! I could care less if it's critical or not! At least I get to know I'm not the only fan of this old dear show left on the planet. :)

I love Lost in Space...my favorite oldie show :) My favorite episode is when Penny goes thru a mirror with her monkey & meets some weird fellow below :). I'm going to look at your gallery now Stevejax...I don't wander much in the Poser gallery anymore...tired of tits & not willing to wade thru it all :(.

Message edited on: 10/22/2004 19:32

Message edited on: 10/22/2004 19:32

Excellent work, SteveJax! I am a Lost In Space Fan myself. I have a few .wav files of Dr. Smith on the puter. Great stuff you do. Here is a page with a bunch of Dr. Smith's insults: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art3316.asp Warm Regards, Nancy

I create art for myself. I post it, cuz I like to think that someone else out there might enjoy it as well. A kudos every now and again boosts my self-esteem, but I'm far beyond caring if people post a comment or not. When it happens, I rejoice. If it doesn't, no biggie. I certainly don't comment on every image I view - so I certainly don't expect it of others. Hot 20? What's that? I've been here at RO for over 2 years now and haven't looked at it once.

If people wish to simply post an 'excellent' type comment then that is their choice. What I frequently notice though is an image with loads of 'excellent' comments next to a technically and artistically better image which has very few comments of any sort! I'm in agreement with Niles about using the mixed medium gallery too. Apart from minor touch ups/colour work other heavily postworked images may be better suited in the Mixed Medium gallery.

i would love to see some of the fantastic lesser seen artists and their works in the top 20.and "get the props that they deserve" ...even if i never get there. the mixed medium gallery is also a good idea.

I've participated only once in a renderosity contest, to realize afterwards that the whole voting system is terrible anyway. The more friends you have the more votes you can generate. But don't feel bad it's the same at many places. I once entered a brilliant image to DAZ where they use the same voting in the pc club, only to see some much lesser works win, due to many friends voting on them. I'm not participating in such voting contest anymore, it's quite clear that it's unfair voting.

Then on the other hand a impartial judge isn't always the solution either. They have their taste and aren't always that impartial either. Example, I once entered two gaming competitions. One by the company of one of the applications I used for the game creation and another independant gaming competition. Both claimed to they had an impartial not related jury.

In the first competition my game wasn't even on the list of honerable mentions. They games that one were far worse then the games that didn't win. The guys that one were in very very good standing with the company and one most of the competitions. Some of the games were even crap.

The same bunch (and many more games) entered the second competition. My game was judged second place, while the others who one where judged by the jury as crap......

That's the way things go at times, nowadays I'm very carefull in what competition I do enter or not.

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 03:08

As somebody who has posted art onto a couple of Poser sites, all I want to say it that some people do seem to go into paroxysms of critical ecstasy at the slightest provocation, and, knowing what I sometimes did to make the picture, it's embarrassing. Heck, I'm still astonished that I won a competition, elsenet. But perhaps a part of it is that I an a trifle unconventional in my thinking, and what I do stands out from the crowd.

I've been posting here for just over a year now and I've never made it in the top 20 and I honestly don't care, I never look at it anyway. Yes it's nice when other members comment and rate my efforts ans dometimes I do feel that some of my work doesn't get the comments I feel they deserve but hey that's just my opinion and obviously they're not as good as I think or they will get more comments. I've also seen and commented on other artists stuff that I feel should have had tons of comments but haven't got any! You have to remember also that it is impossible for every member to view every image. usually when I'm on line I have time to maybe view the first 2 pages and even then I don't actually open every image, just ones that look like they might be good. THE POWER OF THE THUMBNAIL IS ETERNAL!

Thefixer is right there! If there's no Thumbnail uploaded, I won't even bother looking at most images! It takes, what, 60 seconds to do a quick Crop and or Resize of an image to create a thumbnail? If someone can't be bothered to take the time to thumbnail their images to draw interest, they can't complain about lack of comments, ratings or anything if you ask me. Just too much is uploaded here on a daily basis for people to waste their time guessing if they want to see an image that has no preview. Hell, I get tired of looking at other peoples work after only viewing maybe 3 or 4 pages and want to work on something new of my own. I'm certainly not going to wade through 20 pages of new uploads and view it all, nor should anyone be expected to try. The volume of uploads is just too great for that to happen!

A few things for Petuniacan. First off, sympathy. 2. R'osity is not an artist forum. It's a shopping mall with a band, sleazeballs selling junk in the less-frequented halls, and a savvy marketing shill who knows that teens flattered come back. If you want an art forum, try some of the other Poser sites. I'd mention PoserPros, but who knows how the PTB might react.... 3. Being in the "Hot 20" is less meaningful (given the bias of the voters) than being a bestseller. And being a bestseller doesn't mean much about quality, just marketability. If you want to be in the Hot 20, create sappy saccharine cliches or find new ways to display Vickie's breasts. Not a sure thing, since the competition is heavy, but at least you'll have a chance. If you are new in the mall, see if you can find The Legend of Dr. Legume and the Pink Ponies, which drips with consolation. 4. Get to know who the good artist/critics are, and cherish their notice, not the volume of reactions. For example, I have an image that got a positive comment from Will Kramer. That's worth 2173 "Extremely excellent Dude! Love the jugs!" 5. Don't take this place too seriously. After all, what "the place" takes seriously is pretty darn silly. 6. Off to check out your gallery.... Oh, but I guess I can't do that, since you are using a new name. Which, BTW, was not necessary. Unless you are a permanent troublemaker, you can depend on most of the community to have the attention span (and volatile tolerance) of a puppy. And we're artists, so we LIKE troublemakers.... M

I don't care if I ever make the top 20. That's not why I do things. I create pictures as part of the role-play I do, or to enhance someone else's game.

I prefer constructive critism or helpful encouragement over the "It's great" post. If an artist friend of mine posts a positive comment, I take that to heart, because I know here and her work. I also know she willl point out any problems she sees in an effort to help me learn.

That is what you should bee looking for.

P.S. I don't think I've ever looked at the TOP 20.

This has got nothing to do with popularity or the top 20, and anyone who thinks it is, are unfortunately, misguided, it's a lot more simple than that.
Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this world as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character.

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 09:28

Natolli, yes, a time or two I've tried to at least point to what might improve a picture. Though some of my art could be taken as a comment on Poser art in general.

The 'Top 20' doesn't mean a thing. It's a back-patting bunch of buddies and it has just the very occasional image that actually belongs in a Top 20 list. My images get big hit numbers and I never get near the Top 20 - and who cares? LOL. Not me. Advice: Do what you like, look at what you like and to hell with the rest. About thumbs: they are very, very important. If someone uses a joke thumb or none at all, there is NO way I will look at it. If it's V3's eye at close range, I'll avoid it too :o) I like thumbs that tell me what I'll get when I take the time to open the image. After all, I have thousands to choose from. By the way, I've been here a long, LONG time. Since before this place was called Renderosity. :] Fish

Back when the Hot 20 was based on the number of views in the period, I think it was meaningful. I made it once when it was based on the number of views. Now it is based on votes, with the #1 image having only 58 votes, out of 603 total votes for the 7 day period. I think 'rosity has a lot more Poser focused members than 603. Most people either don't care, or (in my case) don't have the time to browse 100+ images a day/500+ every few days and vote for the ones we like. IMO, 'rosity should just eliminate the Hot 20 and replace it a "20 Most Viewed list".

Anyone who denies that this isn't about being popular or part of a clique is in denial because they are already popular and in a clique and don't care what ails the rest of the people because it doesn't apply to them.

Let's be real here people. Don't deny what is. I've seen too many undeserving images get accolades and kudos and seen too many deserving ones not get any. I for one comment on the merit of the art work, not who the person is or what my relationship is to that person. At the same time I don't comment on an image I like when it's already gotten 30-40 comments on it, honestly what can I say that hasn't already been said. It's like walking up to Mel Gibson and telling him "I'm a big fan".

I do art for me, every picture I do has a story behind it and what I post is my best attempt to capture the inspiration. Yeah it would be nice to get comments but knowing that this place is a clique, I don't expect it. I would rather someone leave a comment because they really truly like my art and not just kissing my ass.

I don't ever go into the top 20 either. What's the point when on any given day I can give you the 20 names of people what will be in there.

As a member of several Poser-related sites out there, what I've found is that there are places you go for information, places you go for gossip, places you go for gallery work, and places you go for freebies and products. Rsity has its place in that spectrum, just like PoserPros and Planit3D and the Commune and two other sites I cant mention because it would upset the more sensitive minds around here. The Top 20? A waste of time, unless you like images of glamorous women with heavy makeup and lots of postwork. Yes, on occasion, something unique will crack it, but face it: that's what the 20 is. If you're looking for originality, this aint the place for it, pure and simple. This is the Sears of Poser sites, where the common denominator comes to shop -- and the common denominator likes a particular kind of image. And just as fans of Arnold Palmer clothing will go to Sears, fans of big titty women with too much mascara will come here.

I don't think I'v ever looked at the Top 20. I don't even know where it is.

But I did like that thing they did for awhile, where some of the mods would gather together the best images of the week and point them out. I guess it was too much work for them to keep doing it, but I found that very enjoyable. There was a wide variety of styles and subjects chosen, including stuff I'd probably never click on on my own. Some by very popular, well-known artists, some by unknowns, but all worthwhile.

We could all do that. If you find an image you think deserves wider exposure, post a message here, and a link. Maybe even start a "pick of the week" thread, where everyone can post links to their favorites.

SeanMartin "fans of Arnold Palmer clothing will go to Sears, fans of big titty women with too much mascara will come here." ROFL. So now I know where not to shop and why I don't get into the Top 20. It's not the lack of talent like everyone say's after all. LOL. I would be lying if said comments don't mean anything. They do, it makes you feel great, like you are not waisting everyones and your own time. I also think it's true that the artists that get so many all the time forgot what it was like to maybe get one or two on something they spent a lot of time on. I think my average is 1 image per month, if that. A few look, some leave comments, then of to create a new character. I spend more time creating the stuff than I render. I find that more rewarding when I finally post something and I get a comment on the new character. You would be hard put to, to find a double of something in all my renders. There is the odd thing but not much. So your not one of the Top 20, welcome to the club, all 100,000 of us. If you enjoy what your doing, that is the main thing. Contest don't change. That's the way it is. Most often you don't need to see the image, just the artist list and you can pick the winners. Better odds than horses. Even I broke my own rule not long ago and bothered with one, won't happen again. Get used to it, it is alway going to be that way here. Still, all in all, there are good people here, so make the most of the good things. I guess I should take a gander at my last image, I haven't looked 1 day after I posted it. Should be fun, it was my first in Shade before I read the Instuctions, a guy thing.LOL

know the feeling,beryld..just started playing with Blender, made a pic 'o primitives and 34 hits in 2 days..;) there are some bored people out there..;) I've had 2 votes in 3 years..but I'm still smilin'..just put up what you like, and don't worry about the popularity part..

Make that 37 pakled, just had to look. LOL. OK, so I'll bit. How do you know if you get a vote? Can you tell I've never had one?

i think like most places, the real meaning and idea behind the first post is completely lost on some people. who cares who the person who wrote it is? basicly seems like they are saying they are not going to be complacient and say nothing about dishonesty and following the masses. Anyones whos advice is oh well just deal instead of trying to instigate change is just as bad. The top twenty is supposed to reflect the best of this site and it doesnt,does anyone even give two shits ? i think some people are focusing on some minor not important points in that post. its not who it is, or if their images get into top twenty it's more about unfairness, in a place where it should be about the ART. Seeing amazing artists getting very little reconition for their amazing contributions to this site, Honesty shouldnt be crucified when it goes against the masses if the opinion is honest. how can we change that? can it be changed? If you say you dont care what others think or if you get comments why do you post in a public gallery that focuses on comments, why not make a private web page where people can just look? I think alot of people post here to get help by constructive comments and encouragement so that they can develop and grow. The flocking to the "popular" artists just to stroke egos by giving them comment number 100 on image 300 that looks the same as the previous 299 is really non productive and doesnt encourage growth and development. Some of these people post several times a day and I rarely see them take the time to comment on others. To me, this looks like a butt kissing session than a display of qaulity art.If they arent doing for ego sake maybe they should disable comments. isnt the point of poser gallerys anyways to display poser images and not images that have been totally redone in postwork. Shouldnt that be mixed media or photoshop? just my humble opinion :)

my mom always says it better then me......

I just wish we could check a box to allow or not allow for voting, much like you can for allowing or not allowing comments or ranking.

Maybe they should post in the forums and get noticed once in a while for having something to say textually. I for one am more prone to click on a person's name in a thread that's actively about something that catches my interest and check out their gallery and leave a comment than I am to just go search the galleries for hours on end! I've also gone back just this past week and used HTML to link to the thumbnails of their works that caught my attention when I list them as Favorite Artists so when people view my home page it's full of thumbnails of other peoples work and not just all about me. If you want traffic and comments, get involved! It's that simple!

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 14:25

I think alot of people should "get over" this preoccupation with the Top 20 and everybody else's comments to their work...You are the artist, you know what looks good and what doesn't...why do you need 15 other people's opinions....use your own judgement and quit caring so much what the posters think....if you're that insecure then you'll never make it as an artist of any kind...if I like what I rendered then I don't give fat rat's arsh what everyone else thinks about it...the pleasure for me is in creating it and looking at it, not in what others critique about it.

Yannow, the only pics by me that made it into the Hot 20 were parodies of the typical image.. One where Vicky refused to take off her clothes (on the excuse that it would make the monsters ogling her go away. "What? Hey, why do you think I CARRY this sword!"), the other a baby in medeival armor with a sword...

I just dont get it, you claim you dont care about comments then why post it, keep the image to yourself and look at home all you want and save the gallery space. I for one am looking for honest opinions and helpful suggestions so that I can better myself, and hopefully people will see something I might have missed. I am learning poser and am pretty new to all of this so I am here to learn. But to say you post and dont care if you dont get comments, why post to a gallery that is for that???????? yer bullshittin us on that one!

I post because I'm looking for Constructive Advice and Comments. Not bullshit "It's great."

There's the difference... I'm looking for advice from people other than those that know me. Not for the popularity contest. I have one friend that will offer me those comments because she is an artist. I saw her hand drawn stuff and it's awesome. Poser gave her another media to work with.

well uh.... isnt that what we have been saying?

The gallery is just that, an art gallery! If you want constructive critism post your images in the forums and ask for help! Conventional Artists don't hang out in their galleries and wait for passer's by to comment on their artwork to improve what they've already done with the paint, ink or pencil! They Take art classes for that sort of criticism and that's basically the difference in posting directly to the forum versus posting directly to the gallery! The Gallery's are for the Ooo's and Ahh's of admirer's. The forums are for asking for critiques and improvements! Look the words up in the dictionary if you don't believe me!

What use are friends that lie to you? (I.E. comments)

I can hardly see posting to the forum and wading through tons of posts to find images, not a very productive way to do it.

Ummm Kate, You see that white box you're typing your reply in? You see the check box below that says E-Mail me when someone replies? That is how you get replies to your questions ASAP and That is how you bypass wading through the whole forum. Just click the links in your ebots and you're brought right to the thread with your much needed critique and help. (When the e'Bots are working of course which by looking at my hotmail inbox I can see they are.)

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 16:43

Really, can someone tell me how you know you get a vote. I've been around for a couple of three years and I have no ideal on this. Don't make me get out my old decoder ring and search for the answer. I think it's out of date, do they still make Cracker Jacks? Yes, it's snowing right now, my cat is taking it out on me, so I have decided to find the answer to these questions, trying to ignore the cat climbing all over the computer, bitting me, like it's my fault it's snowing.

"Yes, it's snowing right now, my cat is taking it out on me, so I have decided to find the answer to these questions, trying to ignore the cat climbing all over the computer, bitting me, like it's my fault it's snowing." My cats have always expected me to find them the sun on a rainy day. Like the Heinliein book, "A Door Into Summer", they walk from one door to the next in the hope of good weather. As far as your cat knows, it is your fault it's snowing. You're the top cat around there, right? So, stop the snow. ;)

"My cats have always expected me to find them the sun on a rainy day. Like the Heinliein book, "A Door Into Summer", they walk from one door to the next in the hope of good weather." That is exactly what he's doing. He knows the weather is totally different at the other door and no one can tell him other wise. They do make life interesting, eh!

Top20?I do not care about the Top20,if i would get ever in this list,okay i would be happy,if not it is okay,too.And why?A place in the Top20 doesnt give me money,doesnt give me something to eat.Point!I enjoy all the comments i get.Sometimes there are many,sometimes there are only a few.I for myself comment many images if there is something in it that is of my liking.Every person sees something different in an image and so are the opinions and the willingness to wrte a comment.Create your art and be happy because first of all,you create your images for yourself.

I tend to agree with petuniacan on a few levels: (1) Not sure where s/he is from but in the US, we have freedom of speech. But, it's really kind of a "mistruth" because, you see, a person can't espouse a belief or opinion without (perhaps) being subjected to the wrath of those "other US citizens" who believe freedom of speech entails being able to exact their own brand of "justice". For example (and JUST an example), an athiest attaches a bumper sticker to his/her car saying, "There is no god". Now, the US government isn't going to haul him/her away for speaking freely but I can virtually asure you that the vehicle will be vandalized by those who are upset by her/his bumper sticker. Hence, we really don't have freedom of speech unless defined as, "The right to say what you wish so long as it's acceptable to the majority of citizens". So, I can understand petuniacan's preference to hiding under a different name as the consequences for espousing an opinion is sometimes quite a negative surprise. (2) For all the people who keep saying (not in these words exactly), "Do your art. What do you care about the Hot 20? Post for your own enjoyment", etc. All I can say is that your advice may just apply to the way you look at art. For example, this is the biggest site of its kind. For an aspiring artist who wishes to become known (and perhaps) be able to sell her/his art, being able to claim repeated appearences in the Hot 20 would be quite a feather in a cap. After all, people seeking artists to hire might only have time to look at the Hot 20 (in any particular category) to get their insight on whom to contact. So, while some might consider this site an artist's community, I'm sure others view it as a window for the display of his/her wares for possible advancement in their endeavor to achieve some monetary gains and other noteriety. (3) The Hot 20 has been the subject of complaints of bias for the entire time I have been a member. It is definitely flawed. While the images I view in the Hot 20 are very good, they are certainly not (always) the best. Like life itself, it is largely a matter of who you know and who your friends are. One might say, use the bias here as the same bias one would expect to see in real life. This site COULD do something about it but they seem to be reluctant to satisfy the years of complaints. Which brings me to this comment, that this place is really just a store and not overly concerned about it being a "stepping stone" for quality artists seeking acknowledgment. There are, in my opinion, easy ways to make the Hot 20 less biased...so, since I am wasting my time, I'll post one such suggestion: (a) Add a (secret) indicator to the profiles of 100-200 random people each week. This "indicator" records any votes these selected people make during their "tenure". All other votes cast by viewers without this "indicator" turned on are disregarded for Hot 20 purposes. In other words, a person casting a vote for the Hot 20 never knows if their vote is really being counted. I would suggest just counting the views these selected people make but due to the nature of the "beast", it would result in an abnormal number of views of nudity instead of art in any form. To me, this would be an easy solution to implement. All one would need is a develop a routine that ran automatically each week and set indicators for members. After that, the counting of the votes would need an adjustment to check to see if a voter had her/his indicator turned on (so the vote would be counted). Seems easy to me.

Cuck Evans wrote: (1) Not sure where s/he is from but in the US, we have freedom of speech. For about an hour, i've read a comment of edmundo_kalashnikov, but now, the comment is deleted. What's the matter?

I seem to have missed it, too.