.

@derjimi, As for the IM's,.........I recently posted an image called "Battle Weary"(don't look for it, I pulled it), depicting a weary GI taking a few minutes of rest from whatever conflict he's been in,.......... and it recieved no comments,.......however, I did recieve 2 E-mails, very threatening in nature,........calling me a war criminal and a fascist etc.,.........Anyway, back to the issue at hand, at least you have made the appropriate comments,......every time I have tried that I got a handslap threatening me with banishment. I do not understand the level of crapola that sometimes seems to permeate the "Not 20" these days. For me, some of the members do not seem to have even the most rudimentary grasp of the app they're using,........not that I do, mind you,......my works have gotten crappier and crappier but with good reason, my eyes are failing. So what is the excuse for the falling level of competence and creativity ? Why do some post, IMO, the most insipid, simplistic, just plain awful works ? Because they can. That's the only reason I can come up with. I have to be content with the knowledge that they are dilettantes. I've gotten e-mails saying any kind of "realism" is easy with Computer art, why don't you just take a photo and have done with it ? You can't win for losing.

Any threats or intimidation should be reported to the moderators or coordinators...or to someone in authority such as Dee Marie.

I hoped this thread would be dead by this morning, but nope, it's chundering away :^( In the real world I'm an artist (a sculptor) and take years to make each work. I don't make money, I have to beg borrow and steal materials, drive an 18-year-old car, and will never make a decent living from it. Other people make work that takes a couple of days, and charge thousands, or hundreds of thousands. They do their thing, I do mine. Putting a lot of work into something, or spending a long time working on it, is no guarantee that other people are going to respond to it. Art is subjective. Just because other artists are more successful than I am, I don't consider that I have the right to criticise and insult their work. That's their means of expression. They don't work the same way that I do. That doesn't mean that I'm right, and they're wrong. I happen to enjoy the process of making, so I take a long time over it. For others 'the idea' might be the important thing, they have heads bursting with ideas that they want to make quickly. Everyone works in different ways, and you can't force everyone tolike the same things that you do. Sometimes it seems like the thought police have taken over this place. ROTFL @ Sackrat - great quote!

Hell, it's too early in the morning to be writing this. Nevertheless... Jocko, if you can only translate what I said into an attack on your style and usage of Poser figures in Bryce, don't bother. The fact is, your picture is not anti-aliased. The fact is, the placement of the top figure is messed up, so you don't get the real sense of a cage, but a jumble. The fact is that, although you separated them colouristically, your purpose would have been better served by making the shadow figures more indistinct. In short, you didn't finish what might have been a great picture. And as to my last comment... Comparing yourself to Picasso... arrogance. Simply arrogance.

Attached Link: http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~malek/Klee.html

Attached is a link to some images by my favourite painter

In 1931 he began teaching at Dusseldorf Academy, but he was dismissed by the Nazis, who termed his work "degenerate." And I couldn't care less if Dali is turning in his grave. He milked surrealism for all it was worth.

Message edited on: 12/02/2004 01:54

It's getting weird. He/she threatened me and wanted that comment to be deleted. And now he/she doesn't want it to be deleted. First three comments by artist, last one by me.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=FuzzyShadows

Aye, it's clearly a simple case of newcomers to Renderosity feeling offended. Sometimes, these people show up in the forums and ask for advice, and we all greet each other and everything rocks. Sometimes, I'll see an image from a new artist that I like or have criticism about, and invite that new artist to the forums so we can meet them. This person is either an adolescent or very insecure, and that's an entirely different issue... What muddles ME is that LFNForever actually took time to look at many, many of my images, and left frank and honest comments, in no way insulting, and even praised me! Thank you for your praise, my friend. And thank you for being objective. Almost. Then, this person sends me three or four IM's, insulting ones which I don't even feel are worth the copy-pasting. Then this person posted an even worse image than any of her other ones, and wrote a huge dialogue about how much I and other Brycers suck. Too much drama. I'm not a child anymore, I really don't feel any emotions inside about being insulted by text, even on my favorite 17" Viewsonic whose base is broken off. And as for you, FuzzyShadows... Or should we say, LFNFuzzy? You gallery is every bit as impressive as hers is, that's for sure. I really hope AS gets back in time to lock this thread... It's gonna get nasty, with all this text-warring, somebody might sprain a pinkie or something!

** really hope AS gets back in time to lock this thread... It's gonna get nasty** It's been nasty right from the start. If someone insulted my work I'd lose it, and start lashing out as well. I wouldn't be able to control myself at the time, even if I regretted it later.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying in my rehash statement. It starts .. it continues.. and it goes from bad to worse to downright nasty, pretty damn quick. Nobody can just quit! Normally I keep my mouth shut but: "This is just bad. I can't understand why this is in the Hot20. It lacks of professialism, art and creativity." IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A TOTALLY MALICIOUS, NASTY AND UNCONSTUCTIVE CRIT!!!! Yes I just woke up and I'm crumpy and I have to go work 12 friggin hours and I'm so angry about this escallation of this thread. Angela goes off to shower now and mull over this disgusting stuff thats going on here. And wonders if some poor kid is getting told their work sucks simply because they are too young to understand how the adults here view things like the hot 20

I have to agree with Ang I see nothing constructive in the comment, although I do respect Derjimi as an artist. The one thing that caught my eye though was in the artworks comments was 'Is this because you have no friends of your own???' which implies to me that there is an element of voting for friends going on, not on merit of the artwork. TO me nuff said, I prefer to be neutral in this I see good and bad on both sides.

**"Call yourself surreal and you'll be hot! Hot I say!"**I guess some of those "crap" artworks are probably Dadaism or abstract if not surreal. Maybe you should suggest moving them to the abstract or weird category. As for Dali rolling in his grave? As far as I know, Dali never seemed to present most of his work too seriously. (Or even take it seriously. Maybe it was part of his showmanship nature, but that's what I recall from some art books.) From what I understood he had great fun with it.

I can see them locking this thread soon......

I think that's one thing almost everyone will agree on Bryster :)

Shadowdragon... thanks for promoting my gallery ;). It was only meant as a little humor. >>>Or should we say, LFNFuzzy? You gallery is every bit as impressive as hers is, that's for sure.<<< And as for your conclusion that I'm some how associated with LFNForever, is a bit off. I don't know her at all. I used to frequent these forums under the MuddyGrub nick. But quite frankly, I became embarrased at some of the antics that go on here about the hot20, the proreneder thing, the lack of positiveness, on and on. Of course there are great people here with good attitudes. But if there is one thing I dont like is whiners. We should be greatful for every second that we have to do art, since there are people in the world that literally CAN'T creat art. I still drive by the forum now and then, to see if things have changed... Not much.

Well, I for one have never made the Hot 20, and I thought for sure my Le Glorieux pic was going to be the one that did it for me, since I did put alot of work into it and it took awhile to do, but, it was not meant to be and I could really care less come to think of it. I've actually just stopped looking at the 20 because some of what is called "art" just astounds me that it got the views and votes. My daughters could probably do better with no training. I peruse the galleries and find my favorite artists and then visit their galleries on a regular basis and hopefully learn a few things on the way. I'd have to agree that the Hot 20 should be taken down, because it's not a proper reflection of some of the best Brycer's out there to name a few bs58, CHAY, ICM, striving, ocddoug, FLAK, Rochr...and on and on....these guys should have their own Hot 20, or at least be in the Hot 20 all the time. I guess I'd have to agree that one man's trash is another man's treasure, but how does trash hit the Hot 20 and so many treasures rarely even get a comment. Strange. And, to top it all off, 3dcommune has gotten just about as bad with it's rankings. I see total crap over there getting ranked with 10's and I'll so something I know is better and get a 6.75 ranking. I think some people just do it to make that person feel better about what they may secretly feel is crap. Well, that's just my opinion.

Has this thread gone overboard? - Guess you could say that. Was this what I intended with my original post? - Not really. Does this thread provide anything positive at all? -YES! Yes it does. It proves once again that the Voting system and the Hot 20 (esp in the Bryce Gallery) is a fruking mess and a LOT of members are fed up with it. It should show the Big-wigs here at R that the system they say isn't broken, doesnt work. All the personal insults aside. This issue of the H20 is one that NEEDS to be addressed by R and its leaders. They have been made aware of this over and over and continue to ignore it like it is one or 2 people that are upset over it. I have suggested a couple things to R in terms of helping to remedy some of the problems. They have all gone ignored. 1. Make the Vote button just like the rankings, in that; when an artist upload their work, they can choose to allow or NOT allow Voting. (why should I or anyone be forced to participate in a sham like the H20 Voting?) 2. Take a page from DeviantArt.com and allow the artist to select the degree in which they want crits. DA has a menu when you upload to say if you dont want any critical comments. From basically "I only want praise" to "rip me a new one" kind of thing (that is not litterally what it says, just the idea of it). Unfortunatly, I think R is all about keeping as many members here for the sake of another wallet at their store. They fear to make any move at all on these issues wondering if it will have a backlash in their pockets. Happy Venting to all..... -B

AgentSmith is unavoidably offline at the moment so I'm locking this for him & he can deal with it as he sees fit when he gets back. Please DO NOT post screenshots of ims in the forum - I've deleted the relevant post. Thanks, Shoshanna Renderosity Moderator.