sycophantic Syco*phan"tic, Sycophantical Sycophan"tical, a. [Cf. Gr. ? slanderous.] Of or pertaining to a sycophant; characteristic of a sycophant; meanly or obsequiously flattering; courting favor by mean adulation; parasitic. When looking through the Hot 20, please keep in mind this definition.

.. it's not just you. It's the Buddy Club. "Ooh, you did good, hun!" or "What a beautiful render of my NEW PRODUCT, thanks for showing us!" Etc etc. :] Fish

Occasionally there will be images in the Hot 20 that are quality works that I think really deserve to be there. That said, most of it is crap, and the Hot 20 is mostly a "who has the most friends in the clique" game, and not worth looking at. bonni

Only the best of the best get voted into the Hot 20, its a place where the cream of the artistic talent can have their masterpieces admired & appreciated by their peers. /sarcasm-off/ I used to have a gallery here in a previous incarnation, but I now post my pictures where I know they'll be laughed at & I can get constructive advice on how to improve them.

I guess my question is why no one ever gets Hot 20 images and says, "And special thanks to softriver who is the coolest person on earth!!!" walks away sulkily before the long list of complaints starts

Everybody sing: "I love you, You love me, We're a happy family, with a great big hug, and a kiss from me to you, Won't you say you love me TOO!" ;-)

Hey, I'm not having a go, I love everybody and think the POV, lighting, colour (UK Spelling), artistic inspiration you all use is subliminal. If only we had a Hot Million so we could all be together feeling warm and tingly. Actually just getting rid of the email check box.

Below is a list of praise that can be found. Once you have read through read down the left to see the real motivation.

Point of view is wonderful
Like what you did with the hair
Excellent use of colour
A fantastic render
Sublime Image
Everything looks wonderful

Very Realistic
Out of this world
Totally Amazing
Even the tiniest detail is perfect

Most Wonderful
Echoes of the masters in this image

True to life, you're the best
Outstanding composition
Of the greatest Quality

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 06:00

Oh wow. It's like having a Kool-Aid party in Jonestown. ;-)

"PLEASE VOTE ME TOO" - LOL, that's brilliant!

LMAO to the "Kool-aid" party!

It's not just the Hot 20. Most of the contests around here are the same way if the general population gets to vote, it's always who has the most friends. Reminds me of being in high school....oh wait, the NVITWAS images remind me of that too! Kristta

Where is the Hot 20?

The Hot 20 is over the rainbow. Looking at some of the comments, 'We aint in Kansas anymore Dorothy'.

LOL! Gallery comments can be a little over the top.

Your anagram in post 8 is hilarious. But one of the O's should have been "OMG!!!!" ;-)

I have one in there today that is one of my best, and it's not promoting any product. :O) Some deserve to be there but a lot, I don't know how they get the votes? "I can get constructive advice on how to improve them. " I agree with Lucifer_The_Dark . I wish we could do this without being booed out of the Galleys. I appreciate all the help I can get. I know in the body of my post, I quit adding thanks to the product makers, I have them listed at the bottom, or if not from here after the story. I wish we had a box to check that we want advice and help.

maybe if they didn't do the product credits it would even the score a little. i'm in the lightwave hot 20...where we don't do the whole credit bit, since we make our own stuff, mostly. that gallery is fair, i think. poser 20 is sort of ruining the 20's reputation for the rest of the galleries.

Poser Hot20 means to me (with little exceptions): "The most boring pics around in the gallery".

Allow me to add my heapin' helpin' of sarcasm: Well gee, to be PC shouldn't we really have a "Hot (insert number of members here)"? I mean we don't want anyone feeling inadequate or unpopular, it might hurt everyone's self esteem.

My bigger complaint about the Hot Yo Mama 20 is that almost all are dependent on a big ol' whomp of post work. I wonder how many of these artists would survive if we were told the Poser Hot 20 has to be done entirely within the program?

All these posts should go into the mixed media category...They are not made in Poser, they are made in a paint program

Some postwork doesn't really bother me as much anymore. Even the pros do postwork, lots of it. Even professional 3D video gets postwork treatments, especially for CG/Live action stuff.

I DO think some people take it overboard though. There's maybe 3 or 4 images in the hot 20 that don't look like 2D paintings.

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 10:45

If you make corrections or increase plasticity this does not bother me, but if everything is painted............(and this ugly unreal postwork hair)

Agree with MungoPark, the majority of images should go Mixed medium or Poser/postwork perhaps a new gategory is needed, still wondering the headline above Poser Gallery. ;)

"This gallery is primarily for images rendered within Poser itself. Images of Poser figures rendered in other applications are still welcome, but what's the challenge in that? See how well you can do using it's basic rendering tools!"

I was wondering about this many many threads ago...but I was turned down with it

justinwilliams - believe me, the so-called Hot 20 has been discussed all over the place jsut in the amount of time I've been on this site (sept 2004) and apparently long before; however, the site admins seem as unresponsive to suggestions to improve the fairness of the Hot 20 (which seems to be of the biggest issue in the Poser gallery) as are a handful of artists are to actual constructive and helpful critiques. I loved Turtle's suggestion of a multi-tiered system to indicate whether or not an artist wants crits or jsut a lot of ass-kissing... and Turtle's work definately deserves to be there. Though some of the stuff that appears does not (in my opinion)... I will share one thing... I got an IM from an artist who has frequently been in the Hot 20 in response to some suggestions I made on their work and they said: "Thanks Cara for the comment however I really wished you would keep some of your comments to yourself this is the second one today you just are not pleased with anything I do, I don't know your problems but really don't appreciate some of the remarks I know your going through a tuff time right now and you have tons of decisions to make I've been to your home page and your personal journal please be happy thats all anyone of us want to be and please don't take this personal either its just some of my own frustrations as well coming out take care _________" I replied that if they just wanted praise that they should say so on their posts and their 2nd reply was: "No Cara I do not want just "praise" as you put it however if you have never touched a _______ program or any other program then why?? Like your writting I know nothing about writting so why would I say anything even close to suggesting to you how to write anything. Sorry if you are offended but I honestly do think you have many issues to sort out, and I only wish you the best it is not easy and you are having a very hard time right now. Take care have a great day. ________" And that was from someone who is a regular in the "Hot" 20... cara

Here are a few threads from Poser forum and the main community forum addressing the issues with the "Hot" 20... go ahead... crucify me (Poser forum oct 2004) The Hot 20 - what it is and is not (Poser forum Nov 2004)forum To comment or not to comment... community forum oct 2004 The Hot 20 what it is and is not Community forum (same topic title, different forum) Nov 2004 Hot 20 & Voting community forum - oct 2004 There is an illness in the Poser (and all) galleries (Poser forum March 2004) so there are a few... there are probably many more... cara

These seemingly endless threads complaining about the "Hot 20" leave me cold.

Frankly, I care about the "Hopped-up 20" -- good or bad -- about as much as I care about golf. I don't go there, so who cares?

I think that some people are troubled by the fact that they aren't in the "Hyped 20".

But so long as the Hot 20 exists, I suppose that we will continue to see these kinds of threads on a regular basis.

So someone campaigns for inclusion in the "Hyped 20", and lines up a group of buddies to help them get there. Big deal. Perhaps such artists deserve to be in the "Hyped 20" -- merely as a reward for making the effort necessary to gather a clique of people around them.

I am not in the Hot 20, nor will I ever be in the Hot 20.

But I've got things that actually matter to occupy my time.

More power to 'em, and to all of their voting classmates.

You see, I like to look at the Hot 20 lists in the galleries. And it dismays me somewhat that a site with so many members allows it to (often) be a popularity contest. You do see deserving artists in there as well, but many are overlooked and you also see art that really isn't very good in there because of the popularity issue. I post in the Writer's gallery and it doesn't seem to be so much of an issue there, but we get FAR LESS posts than the Poser gallery does. And I still think the Hot 20 should be changed. I think an artist should only be able to place in the Hot 20 ONCE, that all their votes should count towards one spot which would then open to a larger version of their "featured gallery images" rather than them being able to have multiple spots. For example: right now (3:35 p.m. my time 2:35 p.m. R'osity time) I have 7 items in the Hot 20. A wonderful writer named netsia has 7, and TallPockets has 2, the other 4 spots are taken by writers with one item in the Hot 20... If we could only have one spot per artist, then there would be 13 more spaces in the Hot 20 for other writers. cara

Why not just put every post in the galleries into the Hot 20, and thus solve the problem. Only it would have to be called the "Hot 24,000", or something similar.

Everybody wins. And everyone enjoys the dream of forced equality.

No one would have anything to worry about. After all, it's been tried before -- with wonderful results.

We can all get the same feeling that those privilaged few who make it to the top 20 get. Just do the "POSER CHANT OF STRENGTH" every morning in the mirror when you wake up. It goes like this: "OMG!! I'm speechless! No, actually I'm stunned! You must be the greatest Poser artist that EVER LIVED!!! YOU ARE A MASTER OF ALL THAT IS POSER!!" There. Problem solved. ;-)

Ok, I have heard of this and heard of this from friends laughing over it, grumbling over it and just palin B--ching about it. Who cares?? I don't! I don't vote very often and now I will not vote at all, because the people I think deserve a spot in the limelight will never get there. If you want to change something force it!!! Take a stand! And no it is not sour grapes that I have never been there, before anyone says it is. Not everyone is here to be adored. Anyway I think everyone here that posts should get an award for bravery!!!! :))

Those lists are a lot more interesting. Some examples: SCIENCE FICTION: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=3&MostWanted=Yes PINUPS: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=66&MostWanted=Yes FAERIES: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=42&MostWanted=Yes FANTASY: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=2&MostWanted=Yes MYTHOLOGY: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=57&MostWanted=Yes You'll see lots of Naked Vickies of course, but that's not exactly a surprise :o) :] Fish

Each time I see threads on this topic, I make the same suggestion, and will continue to do so until it actually has some effect. ;) It should not be up to site admins to fix, nor is adding additional ranking options going to do any good. WE are expected, as gallery submitters and viewers, to give our comments and rankings, not only to those we feel are "OMG! Incredible!" but to those works on which we can offer suggestions for improvement. If you see an image in the H20 that does not belong for some reason, add your comments as to how the image could be improved, and give your ranking of it. Over time, those who are simply getting friends to vote for them to get into the H20, will stop wanting their work critiqued "Honestly" and will stop asking for votes. Personally, I don't submit works to see them in the H20, but for constructive criticism and/or simply to share inspirations. IMO that is the real purpose these sort of galleries were intended for in the first place. If I simply wanted people to Ooh and Ah at my work, I would take it someplace Poser had never been heard of and let them beg me for my secrets. :p

The problem is that you end up getting bitchy IMs from people when you make an honest comment. I think that the whole "Hot" 20 process needs to be overhauled, the admins should heed the many suggestions about improving it and do so, that way there is a better defined guideline and usage so that perhaps artists would be more accepting of honest comments rather than raves. Did you see my post above with the IM examples I gave? And in my comments on that artist's images I was honest and kind... cara

Whats the big deal? I am steadily improving, and I think some of my recent work is my best and thats all that matters to me. If you think the Hot 20 is nothing more than just some high school clique with buddies just voting for the sake of voting why continue to look at it??

Just curious though-- since I do paint the hair myself...and I do use filters in ps7 - does that mean automatically I should be considering adding it to a mixed medium category? I have never been in the Hot 20, so maybe that suggestion only applied to those that are...

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 16:44

"why continue to look at it??"

Because it's there. No, seriously. It's for "shock value", like you get watching a train wreck. (Ok, not that bad) ;-)

" Whats the big deal?"

The "big deal" is (apparently) some folks who post work here would like to see the Hot 20 actually mean something for a change, instead of being the farce that it has become. They like the idea of being rewarded publicly for their efforts, and don't like the fact that it has become nothing more than a popularity contest instead of a true representation of the category's top examples of work. That's not an unreasonable request, and I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to gripe about it.

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 17:07

well said! :> cara

I never said anyone shouldn't be allowed to gripe about it- this is a public board for one and two I am all for freedom of speech regarless of whether or not I agree with what people say so there is no need to put something in there that I never said. The Hot 20 has become the way it has because people have allowed it to. Being rewarded publicly for your effort should be the comments you receive, knowing that someone was inspired by your art enough to take the time to comment or critique it, not whether or not it is on some so called popularity list.

This thread has jogged me into a fresh way of thinking. I have decided I LIKE the Hot 20. It functions like one of those ant traps loaded with a sugar lump. The overpainted and underdressed Vickies and the "OMG! Best Render EVER!" commentators all go into the box leaving the rest of us free to ignore them and go about our business. Just as long as the smell doesn't spread too far...so far, it is safe to give detailed constructive comments in Historical or Science Fiction, and there is nice work happening in those and other sub-catagories.

I don't care about being in the Hot 20. I rarely post anything here anyway. But I would like to see "the best of Renderosity." The galleries are overwhelming. I can't possibly look at all the images. So I'd like recommendations. And I'd like to be able recommend an image that I really like.

FishNose
Since all images (that have ever been rendered) are of women in bikinis, with swords and near a temple in the woods!
This is the only way left to identify the categories:

SCIENCE FICTION: chrome bikini

FAERIES: leaf bikini

FANTASY: ornate bikini

MYTHOLOGY: leather bikini

PINUPS: no bikini

ROFL!

If someone wants to produce renders of V3's with slapped-on textures by the truckload -- and if others consider such work to be "the best of Poser" -- then so be it.

When one begins to argue about taste, then one is fighting a battle that you've already lost before you even started to debate the issue. You aren't going to get "them" to like something "better". The hoi-polloi like what they like. Attempts to make it otherwise are simple acts of howling at the moon: not to mention exercises in self-aggravation.

"The best" is a highly subjective thing.

To some, another Victoria in a bikini is just another Victoria in a bikini. To others, it's ART.

sigh

[[Why can't they just like/vote for the right stuff? The things that I happen to like? Nothin' but cold cuts in the refrigerator, and pin-ups hangin' on the living room wall. How awfully blue-collar of them. Don't they understand that we're talkin' HIGH ART here? After all, it's POSER!]]

If the "Hyped 20" were to be determined by anything other than a straight-up vote -- then we would no longer be talking "democracy". We'd be talking top-down assignments.

Technically, one could argue that every majority vote about anything (presidential elections) constitutes a "popularity contest".

But what can one say? It's the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.......but "the People" are too stupid to know how to vote the right way. Unless if they happen to vote MY way, of course.

Then they're pretty smart.

I don't think it's a matter of taste. What people are griping about isn't that they don't share the other voters' taste. It's that popularity is what is determining the winners, rather than any quality of the image.

I mean, look at what happened with the PC Gallery over at DAZ. The entries were supposed to be anonymous, in order to eliminate that clique element. You weren't supposed to post your images elsewhere until after the voting, in order to keep them anonymous. But people were cheating, posting them here, then deleting them before the winners were announced, so that if people complained, DAZ would have no proof the image had been posted elsewhere with a name attached.

Why would people bother to do that, if it was taste that was dictating the winners? They wouldn't. They were doing it because they wanted to let their friends know which image was theirs.

Welllll, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just wonder about some of those eyes! lol Why look at the hot 20 if it makes your blood boil. No one is twisting your arm to open the gallery. It is of your own free will you decided to peek.

Not me. I don't even know where the Hot 20 is!

Why did everyone rate SargeantJack's work so highly?

Message edited on: 12/03/2004 19:06

"Technically, one could argue that every majority vote about anything (presidential elections) constitutes a "popularity contest"." Well, if the presidential elections were anything like the Hot 20 here, then there would be a damn good case of voter fraud going on. whispers - I see dead people. ;-)

Maybe we should boycot the hot 20? I've been doing it since the first time I ever looked at it (I've looked ONCE). I enjoy the criticism and I post my own work here at R'osity. The reason I post my own work is to get criticism and help since I am a beginner but also because it's "free" and it's my own little gallery. Just a semi decent place to post my work so that my family and friends can view it (only my husband is actually registered here). Again, I say boycot and let the world know you are boycotting and FORCE the changes you want. Kristta