Is it just me or does anyone else find this '24 days of gifts for you from daz published artists' deal kind of lame (don't know how to express is it any else). Quite a number of these gifts are pretty much worthless without owning the orginal product and most of them I do not own. The few not to products related ones, I found kind of useless and some of them are even really cheap.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 07:55

BAH, HUMBUG

No, it's not just you. Some people are griping about just that, over at DAZ. But come on - it's free. The PAs who donated those items could have sold them instead. You may not have bought them, but others would have.

I really like the lantern (from Spencer, I think). I retextured it with some P5 materials (so it wouldn't look so Christmas-y) and it looks pretty cool.

I'm not sure I understand why people complain about FREE things. So what if you can't use most of them? Would you rather nothing be offered at all?

Yeah, I would.

It's like your company gives you a Christmas bonus check, but it's in Japanese Yen and you can only cash it at one bank in Tokyo. Sure, you can use it, but only if you buy a plane ticket to get there... a plane ticket your company sells. Of course, the people who work at the Tokyo office don't have the additional expense.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 08:29

This really takes the cake. I am not believing what I just read...shame on you! My hat's off to all the people who were kind enough to spend their time making free gifts of any kind. Thanks to all the merchants who participated not only at Daz, but all the other sites as well.

Good grief.

Okay, let me see if I hear what you're saying, and clarify our position. You feel we are being ungrateful. That by complaining about someone giving away something for free, we're being picky. What I'm saying (I can't speak for the others) is that by giving away something for free that requires an additional expediture is not giving a gift. It's a gift to their prior customers, but not to the rest of us. If DAZ truly wanted to be generous, they'd make it something that everyone could use, and not a promotional gimmick masquerading as the Holiday Spirit. You can stand on the corner and give away free keys all day long, but if you have to buy the car in order to use them, it's not much of a gift, is it? And I'm not saying it has to be every item, but 1 or 2 items out of 14 being stand-alone is ridiculous. And that's DAZ's fault, not the merchant's, because they have the final say on what goes on the list, because I'm sure they had many, many items to choose from that people offered, just as we had here. I don't like it when companies play on someone's emotions and Holiday Spirit for the sake of their pocketbooks.

I'm sure they had many, many items to choose from that people offered, just as we had here. There aren't as many vendors at DAZ as there are here, so that is not a fair comparison. Also, I highly doubt that Renderosity had the final say in what was offered here, it is a decision made by each vendor.

Renderosity didn't have to, because they didn't limit it to 24 items. I'm sure there are more than 24 artists brokered at DAZ.

So dont get any of the "useless" freebies Go $$Buy $$$ the items that are usefull to you as you would any time of the year

Just to clarify one thing, I don't have a problem with free gifts at all. I just have a problem with companies and such that give you free gifts that aren't really free at all. To utilize the free gift you'll have to buy something ( in this case quite a lot of items ). For me to use these so-called free items means I've got to spent some serious cash at DAZ, guess that's the whole idea behind this 24 days of gifts.

I'm sure there are more than 24 artists brokered at DAZ.

But not all of us had the resources to give something. For example, I'm swamped with other deadlines right now, and didn't really have anything suitable to give away. Others may be in the same boat. (And no, the deadlines aren't for things I would be selling at DAZ).

Categorizing the selection as a company that is playing on someone's emotions is very unfair. Especially in the holiday season, when people should be thankful for what they have instead of complaining about what they don't have.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 10:22

If you want gifts, be patient and wait for SAMS3D. Santa Claus is Scrooge next to them. Quality items, free-no-strings, given for the sake of giving. DAZ is, and always will be DAZ: a business. The business of business is its own survival. The sum IS greater than whole of its parts. Yeah, a blue-stater. Good holidays to all.

Well, I WON'T download any of the "useless freebies", so there. The point at issue is that what is being touted as a generous giveaway is mostly a promotional puff. In the same way, some RMP merchants use the Free Stuff section of this site essentially for free advertising. They produce a product, extract 5% of it into a separate file, sell the 95% package in the RMP and offer the remainder in the Free Stuff section as a "gift". If you think no gift should ever be looked down on, I'll persuade all your friends and family to give you nothing but discount vouchers for Xmas this year :)

As a comparison here ... Renderosity has over 1000 merchants. They gave away 82 items for Christmas, SOME of which require the purchase of a character or related clothing. DAZ has, perhaps, one tenth the number of merchants. They gave away 24 free items, SOME of which require the purchase of a character or related clothing. When you compare the two, the reason there seems to be so much more here is because there are more merchants at Renderosity to donate to the pot. So let's discuss generosity. Comparing the ratios, why didn't Renderosity offer 240 freebies? And why aren't you blaming DAZ for the Christmas freebies here that you need Stephanie, or the Morphing Fantasy Dress, or some other DAZ product for? Is that their fault too? You know, they are about to close "The Den" because the threads there "disrupted the community." If this is what Renderosity considers a community, I'll pass, thank you.

Ungrateful wasn't the word I had in mind. More like spoiled. Nobody HAD to give away anything and just because you don't happen to own the products needed doesn't mean that nobody owns them. If you don't like what is given then don't take it. It's pretty simple really. By the way, have a Merry Christmas.

"If DAZ truly wanted to be generous, they'd make it something that everyone could use, and not a promotional gimmick masquerading as the Holiday Spirit"

Let me clarify this.. It's not Daz giving away these gifts. The gifts are from The PA's and the Daz Forum Team. Daz just host them in the forums.

And I'll repost what I posted over there. Slight editing because I am not speaking as a Moderator here.

Hey Guys and Gals,

We (including the PA's) meant this as a special token of our thanks, of the season and of the care we have for you.

The Moderators (We especially Cris) Did this for the same reasons.

This isn't about anything but the season. Nothing to buy if you don't want to. Nothing to download if you don't want to.

It's a Big Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to those who want to accept it.

We are not RDNA if we had done our give-away the same way we'd get blasted for doing it. We are not Rosity. We are the Daz Forum Team and while the idea is the same (Which by the way is as old as christmas and as old as Winter Solstice celebrations) it's not going to be the same everywhere.

In the immortal words of Santa.. Merry christmas to all..

hmmmm edited and undid it.. so edited to redo it.. :)

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 10:48

Just because you have items at DAZ, don't see this as a personal attack against you. This is DAZ's image that they've managed to project, not yours. They're the ones that need to repair it. As their customers, we have a right to question their motives.

As their customers, we have a right to question their motives. OK, using the same logic, as an American I had the right to question governmental motives in the Den. But the fact is, they are closing that forum because of the "dissention" it caused. How is this dissention any less than what was in the Den?

It's not, but then I don't agree with their decision to close the den. As adults, we should be able to tell the difference between spirited debate, personal opinion, and outright attack. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me, in fact I enjoy it a heck of a lot more, especially if they can argue their points well. Rend just doesn't want to devote the man-hours to a place where they feel they need to step in and referee all the time. Frankly, I think they should just not have a mod for the forum, and leave it up. But they didn't ask me :)

Gosh, I never saw any mention in any of the gift messages that we needed anything to make any of the items work. So now it will be necessary to go through the entire collection and analyze each item. Generosity has been perverted in the Poser community. If someone gives you a Poser item for FREE, you're supposed to accept the item without question, and be eternally grateful. It doesn't matter if they're giving away keys to a car that you can't use unless you buy the car. The stuff is FREE!!!! Now shut up and accept your gift. Get Real.

Rend just doesn't want to devote the man-hours to a place where they feel they need to step in and referee all the time. Yes, I realize that. But by the same token, this forum also needs a major amount of refereeing as well ... this thread is a prime example of one that clearly causes the same amount of "dissention" as we saw there. The difference is, in THERE, we expected it. The Poser community is no longer a community. There are too many fights, too many complaints, too many expectations. What ever happened to the spirit of just doing something because you love to do it?

I was disappointed too when the first item I saw required you to own something I don't have I figured then that most of the rest of them would be the same way as well. So what? In the great scheme of things it's hardly worth getting upset about. People can come here and air their discontent but jeez a little perspective maybe. I hate to use the old clichbut people really are starving and dying and dealing with real problems every day. The incredibly wealthy and privileged (compared to most of the world) complaining because some useless free computer fluff wasn't free enough? It's not as if no one else were giving away gifts on top of the free thing people give away the other 50 week a year. I'm sorry. I respect your right to complain but I really don't understand.

LOL, Penguinisto's image and "Now shut up and accept your gift" made me laugh enough to qualify as gifts for today. :) RDNA's having their Holiday free-fest too, why not try there and see if you can find stuff that doesn't require a previous purchase. SnowS

Ditto Pengiunisto. One day this so called "community" is going to implode on itself. Between the whiners & internet/store(s) police..there won't anything left. Geez...between people being unappreciatitve/bitching about other sites/merchant against merchant and being very selective in this process, IMHO...causing stores to be shut down at Xmas to me is beyond the pale. And we all know what I am refering to here. There are modelers like Taschen who sell thousands of models & have been for years, why not go after him, after all he uses "real" life models with logos...go after the other hundreds of sites as well....TAKE EM ALL DOWN....grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I find this all to be very depressing & disheartening.

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 11:44

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 11:46

...causing stores to be shut down at Xmas to me is beyond the pale. And we all know what I am refering to here.

No, we don't. What store is being shut down? o_O

or..you can get Wings 3d (http://www.wings3d.com), Uvmapper (don't have the site, but someone should), something Like the free Dogwaffle (painting)..and make yer own..all the above programs were free last I checked (not sure about UVMapper, but Wings has uvmapping)..and you get anything you can think of for free..works for me..

He's referring to a modeler of real-life cars whose store was shut down due to trade-dress infringement. Couple of points on that: Any income lost now would not affect the store owner until the 5th of January, since that's when Renderosity cuts the checks. The vendor wouldn't have been in this position if he hadn't been infringing on real-world logos. Lets reverse the position... how would you feel if you modeled a totally original concept car for Poser, and one of the big car companies decided to take your concept and make it into their new model, without compensating you or asking for permission? Not too cool, eh? Same thing. Regarding the rest that is ON topic, it's not the fact that the strings require money spent that bothers some of us, although it does me because we're broke :) What bothers us is that using a "free gift" with strings attached looks an awful lot like greed from this end, which is the exact opposite of the true spirit of the holiday. In principle it looks bad. Whether it's DAZ's call or not would probably make a difference, but the prevalent perception that it's another big company using Christmas as a commercial gimmick.

another big company

Big company? I don't think there are even 30 people there!

And read my post 16 again, and compare apples to apples. The same accusations can be made of the Christmas freebies here, but you don't seem to see that.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Renderosity or any other freebie donators here, they are giving PURELY from the heart. But perceiving this as DAZ's marketing ploy is way off the mark. I happen to know this for a fact, because I saw the thread where people donated items. This was PURELY from the DAZ brokers, no different than the donations here.

You need some of DAZ's stuff for some of the Rendo freebies as well, but that is NOT DAZ's fault. It was a vendor decision here as well. And guess what? YOu need some DAZ products to use some of RDNA's freebies as well! Go figure!

You have the right to think what you want. But don't bring it in public and cause yet another lynch mob. That is beyond old.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 12:30

Ya know this thread is disgusting. As a PA at DAZ I was not able to contribute to this gift giving this year, due to problems in the "outside" life, but I would have happily done so. I am a texture artist, so all my gifts would have been for existing products that people would have to have to use. Does that make my interest in trying to give something to people any less charitable? No. People made these gifts because they wanted to do something nice, and offer what it is they were able to offer. What more can you ask of people? A texture artist now has to learn to be a modeller for their gift to be "honest"? That is sad.....what ever happened to "its the thought that counts"? It is Christmas afterall. These people took time out of their lives to make something for the community...and instead of a thank you, they get told their gifts are worthless. These kinds of reactions explain why alot of people give up trying to do anything in this community.

Okay I'm done. If I can't generate enough empathy for the other point of view so that everyone can stop taking it so personally, I must be doing something wrong. Merry Yule, Christmas, whichever holiday you celebrate. I'll go back to debate club and take notes this time.

Where are these freebies? I can't find them anywhere

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=11522

Aha, thanks

"I'm giving you a gift, out of my own generous spirit. Now sure you'll need to buy something from me to make it work. Stop your complaining, you cretin. While you're at it, shine my shoes." Humbug.

Okay I'm done. If I can't generate enough empathy for the other point of view so that everyone can stop taking it so personally, I must be doing something wrong. Yes. Your attacks have been directed at DAZ, who has nothing to do with the items other than to host them. Therefore, the ranting is misdirected and inappropriate. And, because the brokers were the only ones behind this, is it any wonder they are taking it personally?

Look, some of the Daz freebies are add-on's to for sale items. Some are stand alone. It's a mix. Just like everywhere else. When someone gives you a gift, it's polite to say "Thank you". If it's something you don't like, or can't use, you still say "Thank you", because at least they tried. Just an FYI, I haven't contributed a single item to the "Days of Christmas" freebies. I've done a few other's though. You might want to check the free archieve. IN the past 3 weeks there's teh Aiko 3 base, my Imagination set for David, and today the Gorilla LE. I think those are stand alone, aren't they?

This is so horrible. I can't believe people are so ungrateful. I am truly sad if you can't take a free gift and accept it in the spirit that it is given. If you don't own Poser should someone buy that for you so you can use the gifts? If you don't have a fast enough computer to run whatever program, should DAZ buy you one? And the artists who GAVE these textures away, so what if they then see an increase in sales of their base product? Like that's so different that what they do at Victoria's Secret, or the GAP or any other store in our capitalist society? Argh. People make me crazy. Free is free. These things are free. If they are useless to you, that's your problem. Some of them are useless to me, some I am going to horde until I have the product I need, some I enjoy right now. Dang, it's not like they knew you didn't have any feet, and gave you shoes or something. Oh, people make me nuts. Go look up pictures of women in Darfur whose lips and noses have been hacked off by militant groups, and then come back and whine some more about how you want more free things that are tailored to your unique needs. Argh. Argh squared.

My point Tilandra...is said merchant has had those vehicles here for YEARS..now all the sudden...you get my drift....When there are literally hundreds of other sites and the well know Taschen models that do the same exact thing!!!! I don't see anyone hounding them....That's my point. This is just icky. :( Gonna go work on a happy picture and take my mind off this insanity.

In all fairness to the PA's who graciously donated freebies for the 24 days of Christmas, not every PA is a modeler, a lot of them make textures so obviously they are going to make a texture for an existing item, other PA's specialize in poses etc.... Those PA's that are modelers, myself included, had very little time to make a new mesh, (it takes me 2-3 months to make a clothing pack),so you can't do much in a week's time. If you look under the tree there are nice original props there and I am sure more to come :-)

Exactly, Dominique! Not only that, but it takes just as much time to create something that requires another item as it does one that does not. To the merchant, the donation of time is the same.

@ Penguinisto: Could you please post the link to... 'Joe Sixpack's House of Mesh'... I NEED more Crismouse Freeebies... and am grateful for every one who has been kind enuff to give them to us. There's only one thing better than Free stuff.... MORE FREE STUFF...! ziggie

As one of the PAs who put up a gift (maclean's toybox and gift package), I find this thread incomprehensible. I am NOT surprised at the lack of gratitude from some people. But I didn't sit down for 4 days and make 2 models and their textures, so people would be grateful. I did it because I thought it was a nice idea for christmas. Still, there's always someone who complains, no matter what you give them. (And, please note that my contribution doesn't require any product at all). What DOES surprise me is how DAZ got dragged into this and now gets blamed for all the evils of the modern world. DAZ had NOTHING to do with this initiative. It was suggested and developed in the PA forum, then we asked DAZ if they would host the files. OK. It's in their interest to host them, but that doesn't make them responsible for the content. Each individual PA decided what to make, not DAZ. You don't like our gifts? So, sue us! mac PS Thanks to all the other people who are appreciative of freebies.

"Could you please post the link to... 'Joe Sixpack's House of Mesh'... I NEED more Crismouse Freeebies... and am grateful for every one who has been kind enuff to give them to us. " Err, shit... I sorta made that name up. I can give you the texture for the bomb I used in the render up there, tho'...but you'll, umm, have to get the Mk82 mesh from 3d cafe and umm, remap it :) /P

LOL

Anything for you, Zig. More free stuff:

FaerieWylde:
http://www.faeriewylde.com/forum2/index.php
(look for daily "Fairy Solstice" gifts)

RDNA:
http://www.runtimedna.com/news.ez?viewStory=708

Poser Corner:
http://www.poser.desideria-design.com/kalender/adventskalender.html

The Sara Extravaganza:
http://www.3dsaracreations.com/3dsaradownloads.htm

Some of them you have to check daily, others leave the previous days' stuff up.

Dear Editor-I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, If you see it in The Sun, it's so. Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus? Virginia O'Hanlon Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the scepticism of a sceptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to have men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. Editorial Page, New York Sun, 1897 Editor: Francis Pharcellus Church Just posting to get rid of bookmark

Isn't that a faulty premise? How do the ppl that made the free items know that you don't have the things things to make them work? Are they supposed to aske everyone? A lot of ppl have them and they've been available for a while. After all the effort they've gone through to give them away, you want even more to make sure everyone has whatever else they need for them?. Isn't that looking a gift horse in the mouth? Sounds fairly selfish to me since they've taken the time to make improvements to them at no extra charge for ppl that can't do it themselves.

okay, a couple of thing about the start of the thread. 1) if there is an free item that you don't want, or have a required item for, don't download it. 2) making new items for giving away is time consuming, not everyone was able to have the time to do so. ( it took 20 people six weeks to get 3D Sara Creations package together, and that was a lot of stress on us to do so. ) maybe just say thanks, and only download the items you do have a use for, instead of worrying that people were to busy to make all new stand alone items.