If I make a character from scratch does that mean I own that character and would I be able to sell that model if smeone asked me if they could buy it? even though I made the character from a Poser Nude??? How do you go about what you can sell and what you can't? Have any of you made any money trying to sell your models? Or the image?

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 06:04

If you made the character from the Poser nude man or woman, no, you could not sell the model. People sell "characters" - morphs and textures for existing figures. But they don't include the actual geometry. You can use software like RTEncoder "encode" your file so that only people who own the original mesh can use it, if for some reason the geometry must be included. People do make money selling Poser models and images, but do not expect to get rich doing it. And it's unlikely many people would be interested in buying characters for the P4 nude man or woman. These days, the DAZ generation 3 figures are where the money is. My advice is to treat this strictly as a hobby. One day, you may well make money selling your models, images, or animations, but as a newbie, it won't be any time soon. Don't buy expensive software thinking you'll make the money back by selling your art and models, because you won't. Not until you are a lot more experienced, anyway.

I was just wondering not that I expect to get rich of it, I want to use something other than Poser to see if I can create my own and take it to the next level. I like thinking long term. Thanks for your respose. Would I be able to let peole down load it for free off my website? I's an object file right now. How about the images and the artwork made from Posr or other 3D apps? Would it be all non-commerial right? ;)

No, you cannot let people download an OBJ file made from the P4 characters. You will either have to distribute just the CR2, not the OBJ, or you will have to use a program like RTEncoder, so only people who already have the OBJ can use your file. If you post an image of what you've done, people could probably give you more advice on how to legally distribute it.

Rendered images made in Poser are yours to do with as you will. Give them away, sell them, put 'em on t-shirts - as long as it's your own render, it's yours.

"Have any of you made any money trying to sell your models? Or the image?" I make my living in 3D by doing commercial animation projects (which recently has included work done with Poser). I've done animated shorts for several "real-world" companies, which included product advertisements and intro spots. I've never made any money selling original models (at least nothing I can live on), but I know a few people - and I do mean a FEW - who have managed to make a living from selling their still images, but they tell me the market is tough. The big money in 3D today is in animation and games, but you could make some decent cash selling models if your stuff is good and you have good sources of distribution. I heard there's some money in "Poser porn" too, but that's not my cup of tea. ;-)

lol, not into Poser porn but, I have seen poser models for sale so was wondering how the copyright actually worked so If I render an image in Poser it's mine? Not the model it's self? But if I learn how to make cloths and props they are mine? Just not the figure? I do make very small gif cartoons from the images tho. I could never tackle a game, not that advanced as of yet, but I have had some of my friends tell me I'm getting good at Poser. randym77, thanks. ;)

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 08:40

"so If I render an image in Poser it's mine?" Correct. "Not the model it's self?" Correct, unless YOU created the model from scratch. Using a model you purchased does not make it yours to redistribute, even if you change things on it. "But if I learn how to make cloths and props they are mine? Just not the figure?" Correct.

ah ok, thanks dude. Think I'll stick to rendering the images then,for now need to learn a whole lot more. Much easier. I'll try my luck at the cloths and props so I can fillout my scenes. I might have to invest in Photoshop been avoiding it so expensive heh. so I can do better rendering. ;)

maxxxmodelz, thanks. It helps a lot! ;)

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 08:59

The "Generation 3" figures such as Mike 3 & Vicky 3 open up new possibilities to sell characters. You can create a character, and use a program such as Injection Pose Builder to extract the INJect and REMove pose files. When you sell the product, people get the INJect and REMove files to create the characters.

If I can't sell a P4 nude even though I'd be able to make my own cloths with it etc, skin, textures etc, I can't see how you'd be able to sll a V3 or M3 that way either??? Maybe it's just me but all these nude models look the same till you create cloths etc, skin, eye color and things like that. If I put so much time and effort into a figure then don't own it? but, just the image, I'm not sure I'd want to fuss over it. as long as I can hold copyright to my images, then I'm satisifed. ;)

Bobbie_Boucher,

so the only way would be take all the poser poses out of the figure?

Message edited on: 12/31/2004 10:04

Injection Pose Builder would make "pose Files" that a user could apply to their Vicky 3 (etc) character to turn it into your character. So you're selling the Pose files. Go to DAZ and look at the product description. Then go to Poser Arcana and look for a tutorial on Injection Pose Builder.

I'd advise downloading a character from freestuff here and examine what's in the package. You'll find texture maps and INJ/REM poses. The texture maps and INJ/REM poses are the intellectual property of their makers, and they can sell them (that's also what you find in the Marketplace). So if you make your own texture maps and INJ/REM poses, you CAN sell them. If you use a modeling program such as Blender or Wings3D, you can create your own clothes from scratch. Those clothes are yours too, and you can sell them. If you use a modeling program, then import a figure mesh like a P4 character (best way is to load the P4 character in Poser, uncheck all inverse kinematics, zero the pose and zero hip/body translations, then export as .OBJ), and create clothing by slicing off parts and scaling, then you cannot distribute that cloth "as is". You can use RTEncoder to encode your cloth with the original figure .OBJ file, and then you can distribute the encoded file (.rte extension) Objaction Mover does the same thing as RTEncoder, but you are not allowed to sell objects encoded with Objaction Mover. You may distribute them as freestuff however. WARNING: DO NOT USE RTENCODER OR OBJACTION MOVER WITH DAZ FIGURES! Daz does NOT allow distribution of their figures in ANY way, not even encoded like this. For myself, I prefer working the safe way. I model my clothes around an imported figure in 3D Studio Max, so those meshes are absolutely and completely my own and I can do with them what I want. One of the ways to get a reputation as a merchant is distributing freestuff. If you put up some good items for free download, people are more likely to buy one of your commercial products, since they already know what quality to expect. Oh, about your rendered images: the copyright is yours and yours only.

Actually, there are two different ways to sell characters: with textures and without. I think DAZ sells more "total packages" including textures, while you can get just the INJect and REMove poses here at Renderosity. So if I were thinking of selling a character based solely on morphs, I'd try selling it here.

Attached Link: http://www.wings3d.com

it is possible to make characters from scratch. There are a lot of programs out there (Wings 3d, sorry..union rules and all), Lightwave, Maya, 3ds Max, etc., that you can make a character in. Once that's done, you do the boning, skinning, cleaning, and touchups, and other stuff, and you can copyright *that*, as long as it's an original work. Studio Maya, Sixus1, Peejay, etc., make their own characters, so it can be done..here's the link for Wings, if you want to try your hand at it.. Wings Local 509

Creating a character from scratch means you start with a primitive, like a cube. If I were to alter one of the Poser characters I have (which came with P5).. that wouldn't make the character mine. And really, I wouldn't feel I should have any right to sell since I had nothing to do with creating the base mesh.

Thanks much for you input guys. It's really helpfully. Im not at the selling stages just yet however, was wondering how people went about it and to see what the copyright laws were. I might have to look into Lightwave or a small 3D program to help me out with making some models and objects for myself. I don't really want to use poser nudes for my animations. Poser's nice and all but I want to expand a little and try to make my own. I only have Poser4 & Bryce5 right now. Both are pretty limitted what you can do in a sense as it's the image you can copyright but not the model not that I want the Poser model anyway. And when I get better and better I would like to put my models on my website for free downloading. And If I make something I want to be sure I own the copyright. If I attempted to make a character model from a regular 3D program would it then be mine, right? ;)

Message edited on: 01/01/2005 02:05

I made a character using Wings3d and if I wanted to sell it I could. It is mine. Once you make something from a primitive it is your's... as long as it isn't an exact copy of someone else's work but that's a given. Wings3d is actually a good prog to start with.. easy to learn. And there's a wings forum here on Renderosity.. it's where I go whenever I have questions regarding the prog.

For the record you should create INJ/REM files for characters and not distribute character files. However this comment by svdl is actually not quite true: WARNING: DO NOT USE RTENCODER OR OBJACTION MOVER WITH DAZ FIGURES! Daz does NOT allow distribution of their figures in ANY way, not even encoded like this. I don't know about Objaction Mover but RTEncoder was created for the actual reason to allow people to distribute character files based on the Daz figures. Thats how the AEON and A3M3 characters are distributed and with Daz's approval.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/support/faq/index.php?id=3

RTEncoder and OBJaction Mover are both OK by DAZ. The FAQ says so! http://www.daz3d.com/support/faq/index.php?id=3

wyrwolf: thanks for that pointer! That means I can distribute some of the things I made for myself as freestuff.

Sounds too complex for me at this stage as long as I can retain the copyright from my images that's all that matters to me right now cos I make cartoons & avi files frm them. I'm gonna hunt around to see what I can afford to buy a small 3D program to create some props for my scenes. Since I make small, animated gifs out of characters and shorts that's all that really matters to me at the moment. Even if you bought Vickie and Mike3 and made other models from it you still don't have a licence to sell it? But yet, if you made an image from that model you can claim copyright too it? Really strange. Like I said, not that I want to actually use Poser models to sell my work but someday when I get advanced enough I would like to make my ow and see if I'd be able to sell some stuff or make freebies. It's mainly for my 3D website anyway. Oh and for the record I don't have any DAZ products or models, just Poser4. What about a generic nude model? If I made a character from that in another program would I then be able to give it away as a freebie?

Message edited on: 01/02/2005 03:31

Instead of waiting until you can afford to buy a program you really don't need, you could be learning how to create props in a free program right now. Advancing comes after lots and lots of practice.. not the other way around. You can't practice without starting.. inso you can't advance without starting. What generic nude? Make your own generic nude and make your own character to give away. Or don't.

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com/source/software_files/3dmod.htm

No need to buy a 3d modelling program. At least, not yet. There are many good ones available for free. They may not have the bells and whistles that the pricey ones do, but they're more than enough to learn on, and to make simple (or even not-so-simple) props. Link is to a list of free modelling software. Wings3D is probably the most popular among Poser users. Anim8or is my favorite, though. The Truespace program listed is an older version; Truespace is a high-end program, and downloading the free older version qualifies you for discount if you decide to upgrade and buy the current version. There's also this one, which looks interesting: http://www.artofillusion.org/ I haven't tried it yet, but it seems to be a pretty powerful modelling and animation program, and completely free.

I've looked at lots of free modelling programs, and have yet to find any decent documentation or tutorials. So I just hope to some day save enough to buy a commercial program. Shade looks interesting now, although the one Shade web site I found only has two tutorials. Both of them say beginners should not try those tutorials, and they have none for beginners... Maybe I'll just wait awhile longer.

Anim8or has a pretty good manual (built-in help). The Anim8or site has many tutorials, including some for Poser use, and there are others around the Web. (EnglishBob has one on his site on how to use Anim8or to make conforming clothes for Poser.) There's also an active message board on the Anim8or site, where you can post questions and get quick and friendly answers. The Shade manuals are excellent, and include tutorials. You get them in PDF format if you buy the downloadable version. IMO, it's worth buying the boxed version, even if you have to pay shipping. That way, you don't have to read the manuals in PDF format, or print out 500+ pages yourself.

Wings3d has a manual here http://www.wings3d.com/ and there's some tutorials out there written for Wings. At the same time many other tutorials written for max for example can be applied in Wings once you're familiar with the program. PuzzledPaul wrote plenty tutorials and the link to his site can be found at wings3d.com. Blender also has a manual. There are forums for both of these programs on cgtalk where ppl share info, tutorials. http://www.elysiun.com/forum/index.php -- a blender forum. http://p212.ezboard.com/bnendowingsmirai -- a wings forum.

I tend to only remember the "gist" of things. The last time I tried, I remember finding no manual or tutorials that helped me learn Wings or any other freebie program out there. There were some tutorials, but they were poorly done and not helpful at all. But then that is my personal opinion.

I use anim8tor to build all my models and props. I have written back and forth with the creator and he is a heck of a guy. Anim8tor has a great manual in pdf, its learning curve is pretty smooth and with each new release it gets more powerfull. It has a huge user base several forums and lots of tutorials. If you have played with my free mech you can see that it works just fine for figure construction. In fact it has a great system for making full animations and scenes. Anim8tor is the only 3d software I use besides zbrush. I use zbrush to do organic forms like morphs for V3. I tryed Max, Bryce, and several others and frankly the learning curves were too steep for me. I am soon to do several anim8tor tutorials specificly to clarify the simplest way (for me) to create full Poser characters. Wings is good stuff, if anim8tor was not around, it is the one I would most definately use instead.

I couldn't make hide nor hair of Wings3D. I tried it, but even with a tutorial, I couldn't do anything in it. Anim8or, OTOH...I found that very intuitive. I was building things immediately, without really needing a manual or tutorials. But I came to 3D from CADD, so YMMV. But I think anyone who's used to engineering/drafting 3D apps will find Anim8or very intuitive.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who couldn't follow some of these manuals or tutorials. Some of them even have forums here at Renderosity, but the forums seemed more like ghost towns, or the people there couldn't fill in the blanks, so I just gave up. I've tried this at least twice in two years.

ZBrush and Anim8or left me scratching my head as well. That's why I'm thinking or hoping Shade might be better, and the price for the LE edition looks good. Only problem is that the Shader Cafe doesn't seem to have much. Only two advanced tutorials which state beginners shouldn't try them. The forum didn't have much either.

Message edited on: 01/02/2005 13:59

You can download a demo version of Shade, with a beginner's tutorial. Try before you buy!

yup, there wasn't a manual when I downloaded wings and I failed to make a decent wine glass using the wine glass tutorial. A simple wine glass. Didn't download wings to make wine glasses anyway-- what I thought when I gave up. Wanted to make characters. My latest project is the closest I've come to actually completing one. It's ready to be rigged. http://hometown.aol.com/divinerain/page3.html http://hometown.aol.com/divinerain/wings3d.html -- completed hands and at the time a WIP foot. Followed Stahlberg's foot modeling tutorial for that 1 but I didn't follow it thru to add all the detail he has. And he's a Maya user. After I scratched the wine glass bit I came across this tutorial http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/head.html If I remember correctly it's written for max. Skipping the spherify bit, but moving edges/vertices to resemble the other screenshots the spherify bit really isn't necessary. The end result is the same regardless of method. One more url-- http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=108412&page=1&pp=15 Stahlberg's body topology thread.

If I understand, the Shade demo won't let you save. I can't get the feeling of using a program if it isn't fully functional.

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net

PhilC sells a female mesh that you can use royalty free to make figures with, in which case you could sell the mesh as your own. Obviously, you would need to Poser-fy it though.