Maybe someone should consider an appology here for all the name calling.

And for accusing people of being thieves who have a guilty conscience?

bonni Message edited on: 03/04/2005 03:13

Funny you should mention Ron Knights. I was just thinking that his, er, style of discourse was very Knightsian. Except I think even Ron would know better.

FWIW, Mizrael IMed me under his other name, SteveJax. So he's got a sockpuppet participating in this thread, too.

Nah, Ron knows who cooler is and is quite smart enough to tackle someone more vulnerable, such as a merchant or a newbie or someone heading into the hospital. The argumentive bulldoggedness isn't limited to just one member here. (I can be quite tenacious myself, but try not to get boxed into corners when arguing a point... bad fencing technique.) Now if Mizrael is SteveJax, that would undermine his sweeping claims to be against theft... since SJ first came to my attention trying to recreate the TV version of Batman and Robin. Fan art often goes under the radar, but still is a copyright violation. If this keeps up, we'll need to rent one of those commercial-sized popcorn makers. ;^) Carolly

sneaks in with a meaningless entry so as to FINALLY make my name appear in a locked thread

sneaks in with a meaningless entry to take down ChuckEvans dream to appear in a locked thread hehehe

LOL...well, one CAN have dreams, right? (Sheesh! All the popcorn's disappearing, too...)

I hate it when popcorn husks get caught in between your teeth.

"I'm not the person who made it personal by using derogatory remarks about a person's character such as the remarks Cooler's made about mine."

Yes you did:

"Frankly I think you guys are protesting too much to be so totally innocent!" Post #18
And
"Frankly I never said ALL tubers and your indignation reeks of someone who's feeling a tad bit guilty. Those who protest the loudest against imagined slights are usually the ones who need to examine their own reasons." Post #21

So anyone who disagrees with you on any level is hiding a guilty conscience?

Hah, I'm as guilty as they come....I have to be, every time I tell someone I'm completely and utterly innocent - they die laughing.... ;)

notices the empty bowl of popcorn and replaces it with ripple chips and dip

*25. Re: A Poser Among Us? by Mizrael on 3/3/05 19:13

I could care less who Cooler is if they're hiding behind an anonymous screen name then that's all the more reason to find their opinions suspect.*

and

*53. Re: A Poser Among Us? by randym77 on 3/4/05 05:38

FWIW, Mizrael IMed me under his other name, SteveJax.*

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)

snags some of the freshly brought chips and watches as more of the scene unfolds... ;)

At least chips don't get stuck between your teeth.

On another subject, I think I just saw Posette on CourtTV. Shot and beat up yet again...

Ohhhh! What a sweet looking .gif. May I borrow it?

Feel free. :-)

And if you want to try to make your own, the popcorn cart is here:

http://www.wg3d.com/moversx.html

Thank you :) I've book marked the site for future reference. I'll give it a try, but in the meantime I'll borrow yours...it's adorable. Thanks again :)

cal (wg3d) makes some of the most charming models. His CDs are quite a bargain... chock full of all the little things to fill out a scene. :)

mizrael - I gotta say - I'm coming at this from both sides why? Because my work is constantly being tubed - so much so that when the image that began this thread became a concern I was messaged because it was believed to be mine. I am an asst. mgr in a copyright awareness group that deals mainly with tubers and snaggers et al. On top of that I also do a pretty good little business selling royalty free images & clipart in psd format to be converted into tubes (my way of dealing with the constant snagging). So I'm a borderline tuber as well. Your original comment was out of line - your claim to have been around for awhile and yet to not know who you are typing to is ignorant. Your continued ranting and finger pointing was ridiculous and frankly only made it worse, it didn't deal with the real issue here at all. In fact you successfully diverted the attention from the real issue by behaving as if personally attacked when cooler was only being sarcastic in regards to your sweeping generalisations. On top of that you stated that cooler was "suspect" for hiding behind a screen name - I don't think mizrael is your real name, on top of that you posted under stevejax in this thread which is apparantly your other nick. So who seems more suspect? Really all you had to post was that you were irate and that you didn't mean all tubers in a sweeping fashion like that. I suggest a nice step back, and a re-think, you aren't doing yourself any favors in this community with your reactions. Not that I disagree that tubers, many of them are a group of "gimme" babies, but I do know enough to know they aren't all that way.

Marked........

Well, in defense of not knowing who cooler is...I must confess, I didn't know who he was either. Yeah, I've seen his posts here and there but I didn't know he was the copyright guru (makes mental note for future question bombardment). Only thing that caught my attention was the (very) artful way in which cooler made his point. Now, post #17 was just pure art. But the "cherry on top" was in post #31: "No offense but go find your own troll. I get so few to play with :-)" Had to explain why I was laughing so loudly to the co-workers in the nearby cubicles on that one!

This is a bit off topic, but I have to insist that the use of screen names is not "hiding," unless it literally is, as in the case of RK, who has been popping up at various forums that he's been banned from lately with new screen names.

As the result of my own foolish use of my real-life first and last name in a a Usenet group some years ago, I was stalked, spammed, and received harassing phone calls from some anonymous troll there who took an intense disliking to me, evidently for being happier than she (assuming it really was a "she," which I don't.) It was a most unpleasant experience, and is specifically why I'm careful about who I disclose my full name to these day. To be fair, I've never had any such trouble in the Poser community, whew!

By the way, cooler has posted his real-life name numerous times in Renderosity forums.

I don't know what problem some of you have had with Ron Knights in the past. I tend to ignore the gossip and form my own opinions. Sure he has strong opinions, but so do many other people. However, he was very kind and helpful to me when I first came to the Poser community last summer/fall. He helped me, and from what I saw, others, a great deal. I rather liked the guy and have wondered where he had vanished to :(

He hasn't vanished. He's just posting under different nicks, because he was banned under his own. He's Bobbie Boucher here, and Elliot Ness at PoserPros, I believe. Not sure about DAZ. I think he was only suspended there, so he may be able to come back under his own name eventually.

"I rather liked the guy and have wondered where he had vanished to :( " He didn't vanish, he's just using another of his many SN's created after being banned from virtually every site in Poserdom.

That's good! :) I'd hate to see someone so helpful to new Poser users banished. He was one of the first to jump into my confused state and try and get me settled into using Poser.

He is currently here as AlteredEgo. That is the same nick that he is also currently using at PoserPros and DAZ, where he has been banned. He was also banned at 3dcc and 3dcommune. (It is possible that he is still the only one banned there.) He has been permanently banned numerous times under a long list of names. He has a unique way of disrupting the operations of a site, harassing merchants, arguing with admins, all while gathering attention to himself as the poor victim. I've never seen anyone else operate so successfully as a manipulator and martyr, despite coming from a family of professionals. It is almost awesome to watch him in action: the affair of x2000 and the restaurant unfolded at PoserPros like a slow-motion 200-car train wreck. His history would be more clear, but so many threads were locked and scooted out of sight because they got too heated, and we've lost entire forums. Carolly

He has never been anything but kind and helpful to me :) Regardless of experiences by others, I give people the chance they deserve and don't prejudge based on what others say. I think it's unfair to keep dragging up history. As I said, I like to keep an open mind about people and form my own opinion. However, not evenyone is like me and some tend to judge based on what others have said, which is unfair.

Message edited on: 03/05/2005 20:59

As I recall, if he is the "same" Ron Knights, he is a preacher. Odd behavior if so.

His "helpfulness" toward newbies is part of the problem. He loves to "help," but the info he gives is sometimes dead wrong. And he will never, ever admit that he was wrong, even when it's plain as day. He also barges into other people's tutorial threads and tries to argue with the person teaching, and direct the people trying to follow the tute to his web site instead.

He had a tutorial accepted at DAZ, but parts of it were incorrect. And rather than admit he was wrong and make the corrections, he pulled it.

"I think it's unfair to keep dragging up history. As I said, I like to keep an open mind about people and form my own opinion. However, not evenyone is like me and some tend to judge based on what others have said, which is unfair." I don't judge by what others have said. Ive seen RK's antics. The man is a Troll of the first order. Period. He's been banned at sites that PRIDE themselves on NOT banning members.

"Ive seen RK's antics. The man is a Troll of the first order." I think people should leave their problems with others at the door and allow others to form their own opinions. Gossip is a terrible thing.

Exactly. It's not based on what others have said, and it's not dragging up history. We've seen Ron in action, first hand. And he was banned from DAZ last December - hardly ancient history.

"I think people should leave their problems with others at the door and allow others to form their own opinions. Gossip is a terrible thing." And I think I'm entitled to my own opinion. You don't agree that RK is a Troll? Terrific. As for me, I gave him a chance when PP's first opened, he had a bad rep but I felt he deserved a second chance. He blew that chance. Now if you want to lead the RK's fan club, by all means do so, just don't expect me to join. Oh and I think you will find I speak my mind and will continue to do so regardless of what you think.

I think we've all been in that position. We've all given Ron chances, and been burned. I used to defend him, too. I learned my lesson. You don't get banned from every site in Poserdom without a reason.

You don't get banned from every site in Poserdom ...sometimes more than once... without a reason. Yup. I used to wonder what the "big deal" was about him, until he went off on one of his tangents in a situation in which I was involved, the Xmas give-away items the DAZ brokers provided. He is one of the primary reasons that I will never again participate in a big special occasion give-away. His badgering and nasty commentary on the topic completely ruined it for me, and I'm never going to put myself in a position to receive that kind of negativity again. And by the way, he's changed nicks again, both here and at Poser Pros. bonni

I am saddened by the lynch mob mentality demonstrated here. I can't believe moderators allow people to discuss bans and gossip about fellow community members like this. What transpired between him and some people here, is past history; let it go and stop spreading your poison. It doesn't concern those of us who were not involved, or even present at the time. Let those of us who weren't around when those things happen, form our own opinion without interference and the obvious prejudices that some here have against him. What happened between him and some of you is PRIVATE and no one else's business.

It's not private when it was publically posted. And still is, if you want to look up the threads. Sorry, but I find your request unreasonable. It's like asking us not to mention something that's up on the ticker in Times Square.

What happened between him and some of you is PRIVATE and no one else's business. Actually, it's not. It was all very, VERY public. And people most certainly are welcome to form any opinion they wish. I am sharing ONLY my personal experience, nothing more or less. bonni

"What transpired between him and some people here, is past history; let it go and stop spreading your poison. It doesn't concern those of us who were not involved, or even present at the time. " Not my problem you're a noob that hasn't been around for the RK show. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will state my opinion any damned time I feel like it. Is that plain enough for you or should I be even more blunt?

And a permanent BAN is supposed to be permanent, and only used against the worst offenders... people who poisen a community, deliberately hurt other members, or who disrupt the operations of a site. He is not a member. He is banned. He is not one of us. It is like being "outlawed", which was one of the few ways the Vikings dealt with offensive people. They had no jails and death was reserved for people practicing harmful witchcraft. For minor crimes a fine could be imposed. For major or repeated offenses the person was banned and put outside the protections of the law... this meant no food, no shelter, no entitlement to payments... Nothing. They usually had so many days to leave the country... and if they returned, they could be killed on sight by anybody without penalty and without bloodprice. If they couldn't live within the law, they were outside its protections. (Our word "law" is from the Old Norse, as is the concept of trial by a jury of one's peers.) Here on the Internet, we have few ways to protect members of society from baneful influences. If somebody continues to be unsocial despite warnings, the only recourse is to outlaw them. A banned member is outside the community. If they return, what then? Decide the laws don't apply to anybody and leave the community open to anarchy as all the animals shred each other? Or enforce the law and evict the trespasser each and every time he enters a place where he has been thrown out? Laws knit a society and without them, this will all unravel into the nastiest feuds and flamewars you can possibly imagine. If a site declares that someone is permanently banned, they have an obligation to all members to enforce that ban. If a site will not stand behind its rules, why should we? Carolly

All these sock puppets and secret identities are making me paranoid. Now I'm starting to wonder if Acadia is Ron. :-/

"All these sock puppets and secret identities are making me paranoid. Now I'm starting to wonder if Acadia is Ron. :-/" You know, I was thinking the same thing :) hauksdottir, Cooler is working on a paper where he supposes that gaining access to a site one has been banned from is tantamount to trespassing. I don't know all the details, he could explain much better than I. It is an interesting concept. Websites are personal property. By using a web site you have been banned from, your are using bandwidth and services you are not entitled to.

Ummm, k. I guess Ron's been lurking around these parts desguised as me since Monday, January 06, 2003 when I joined this site :)

Oooohhhhhkay, I think the Miracle of Thread Drift has transported us far enough for one day... Can everyone please pick up their empty popcorn containers and soft drink cartons, I'm locking up for the night :-)