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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 01 2:37 am)
Subject: A Poser Among Us?
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Wow, busted! Copyright and intellectual property issues are among the most fascinating of our time. I think it would never even occur to me to use someone elses material in this way. I wanted to use an image of a flower I found on line as a majorly blurred out unrecognizable source for image based lighting as a backdrop for your (Rhiannon) fantastic Dominique character since I was only really going to use the color parameters as a basis for Vues lighting set up and decided not to as to error on the side of caution. I instead dug up an old photo I took and scanned it instead. Many people think that fair use mean as long as you dont make money on it. Although that is one of the parameters that would be under consideration in a lawsuit, there are so many other factors in play the point becomes hardly relevant. I have the chance to do some instruction in computers and whenever we use an image from the internet (within the context of a clear fair use situation) I use the word STEALING every time to reinforce the issue. I will literally say during instruction now go find the picture you stole from the someone on line in the My Pictures folder because I feel if we dont build the appreciation for this concept in at all times we will produce people who do not understand. Anyhow thanks for letting us steal (at $9.00 I consider it a steal) your characters and keep up the good work.
:roll eyes: Well, I'm certainly not going to "love, trust, and respect" a thief! Just taking tubes is just asking for trouble. If the source is a known copyright free collection (such as Dover or Corel's packages of clipart) one has a bit of backing before using it. I figure that the only thing most tubers are good at is changing the brand on the cow they stole from someone else's herd. Carolly
Sorry this happened, Rhiannon. The infringing image has been removed. Thanks for informing us.
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Thanks very much Karen, and thank you to everyone else as well. I've never really had any experience with "tubers", although I have read some of the hotly-debated issues surrounding tubes and the people who make them, give them away, etc. I've been asked permission to use some of my images as tubes, but have never given it. Seems that tubes are much like Photoshop Brushes or Painter Nozzles, and the people who create them to sell or give away would be required to hold a license or copyright in order to do so, and the people who buy them or download them would want to be certain they are legal copies. Ah well, there will always be pirates, and unsuspecting bystanders as well. And the world keeps turning. :-) Thanks again to all!
One observation -- we are talking about the "Poser" (capital "P") gallery here......so it's the appropriate place for a "poser" (lower-case "p") to post.
Right.......?
;-)
For any that might be in doubt about it -- I am joking.
I'm probably going to generate a lot of hate mail for saying this, but all tubers aren't bad. People have to start somewhere and not all people can draw or paint from scratch, yet they have creativity within them. So they use derivative/collage art to express that creativity (the above image is not a collage or derivate form of art). This form of art is recognized under the copyright laws. I tube, have for years, but I put the artists name in the file name and on images that I have used the image within. I also draw a little, but am by no way up to par with the likes of Royo or Bowser or many of you, but I like to make pretty things, so mainly use collage and derivative art as a way to do that. I also put the artists name on the finished image. Now I've found Poser, and it allows me to be express my creativity even more. Currently I use purchased textures and hair and clothes because I'm still new to the game. However, my goal is to be able to create my own props and textures, so that my "creations" will really be MY creations. Yes, there are people out there that use existing art and claim it as their own. I don't agree with that. A couple years ago I was a member of a tubes group in Yahoo, and the tubes sent through by the 2 owners were obviously the art of others. I sent an email to one of them one day and asked if they could include the artists name in the file name so that I could give proper credit (the file name contained their own name and the date it was tubed as well as a name they gave to it, but not the artists). I was surprised to receive a nasty email in reply, and find out that I was perma banned from the group for asking that. The internet is a 'take' medium, and I realize that anything I upload to it is vulnerable. I acknowledge that and accept it. Just yesterday I was browsing a website of someone that I know casually, only to find 2 pages that had content that was 100% verbatum taken from my own. I smiled and just shrugged it off. I was secretly flattered that they felt I wrote so well that they wanted to use my wording. Ideally they could have asked seeing that I am in their ICQ list, but it didn't bother me. What I'm trying to say is that yes, while there are some bad tubers out there, not all tubers are bad.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Mizrael & Sarte, /SET mode +sarcasm "Yep Ban all them dirty tubers!!! They're not like US! I mean it's not like they do REAL art or anything /Set mode -sarcasm Now much as I hate to get in the way of a budding lynch party... Are you aware that there are "tubers" who make their own Poser/Bryce/Vue renders, then make them into tubes either for sale or as freebies? They also run "safe" Yahoo/MSN/etc. groups & mail lists where a prerequisite of membership is that you understand & adhere to copyright laws (some even maintain copyright forums to gasp educate their members :-). Not to mention that several of these "tubers" have been more instrumental in identifying illegal tubes/tube sites, notifying Renderosity artists, and getting the illegal sites shut down. And do you know what the corker is? All of the tubers mentioned above are also members here, and there are a lot of artists who are very glad they are. So next time you pull out that righteous indignation make sure you're not aiming at too broad a target ok?
Frankly I think you guys are protesting too much to be so totally innocent! Anyone with half a brain would know that our indignation is based on the fact that there's a HUGE kernal of truth that Tuber's Steal. No, not all of them but the ones who don't shouldn't be upset by people who are angry with the ones who do steal. These "Righteous" tubers you speak of should be very understanding of why people are upset by the theft of their labors!
I protest at the sweeping generalization made in this thread about what all tubers are like. I do understand how some of you are feeling, but that doesn't give you the right to make broad sweeping generalizations about ALL people who tube.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Frankly I think you guys are protesting too much to be so totally innocent! Would you like to clarify that a little? I don't especially like being proclaimed guilty of something without being able to enjoy it first :-) Anyone with half a brain would know that our indignation is based on the fact that there's a HUGE kernal of truth that Tuber's Steal. No, not all of them but the ones who don't shouldn't be upset by people who are angry with the ones who do steal. My irritation is with the obvious bigotry of lumping everyone who makes tubes into the same basket. Substitute, "nigger" "jew" or "anyone who uses poser instead of a real CG program" into your statement our indignation is based on the fact that there's a HUGE kernal of truth that Tuber's Steal & you'll see what I mean. These "Righteous" tubers you speak of should be very understanding of why people are upset by the theft of their labors! If you're going to ask for understanding, try having a little of your own. Drop by the copyright forum sometime & browse through the dozens of threads BY tubers trying to identify tubes so the ripped off artist can be alerted or "outing" illegal sites.
Mizrael, Just scroll back a bit & you'll see.... 14. Tuber's Should Be Banned!!! by Mizrael on 3/3/05 08:23 If they can't create their own content they have no business being on this site! Seems pretty all encompasing to me but I suppose that's just the "imagined slight" I misread into what you actually posted :-). As to "examining my reasons" try rereading the second point I was trying to make in my post above. That's the only reason for me posting here, no more no less.
While you may not have, others in this thread that stated such things as "They should purge all the tubers ASAP. Those people have absolutely no qualms about stealing from talented artists here." I'd like to see someone go into the streets and shout that all Jews or Blacks need to be lynched... or "purged"... and see where that gets you (generalized and not directed to you specifically). While you may not have a problem being lumped into a catagory, some of us do, that's all we're saying. You should go and think about why you feel the need to keep justifying yourself and pointing fingers.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I could care less who Cooler is if they're hiding behind an anonymous screen name then that's all the more reason to find their opinions suspect. I never said ALL and if he/she wants to read the use of the word "ALL" into what I said then I think maybe he/she is too touchy about it and maybe feeling a twinge of guilt at their own past behaviour. I stand by my stance that those who protest the loudest are most often the ones with the most guilt. In qouting back my original post they ignore the fact that I clarified my stance with the remark "If they can't create their Own material". That hardly speaks to ALL tubers now does it?
Message edited on: 03/03/2005 19:14
You've been here less than a year, according to Rosity's database.
In any case, I said "forums," not "forum." I meant all the Poser forums - 3DCommune, DAZ, PoserPros, etc. Cooler is known as a copyright expert on all of them.
My advice stands. Stop digging yourself deeper. You're not making any friends here.
hiya guys, No offense but go find your own troll. I get so few to play with :-) As far as who or what I am it shouldn't make any difference. The message is what's important, not who is saying it. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if Ironbear, Dr Legume, or tim choate himself would have posted what Miz had, I would have said exactly the same thing to them (and probably a lot more colourfully :-) Mizrael, You've got a chance to end this now. We've both had our say & you clarified the header in your original post to this thread. Let it go & walk away. No sense in attracting anymore of a crowd unless you're going to bring popcorn :-)
I find it funny that the people who actually start the arguments by misreading what has been said are always the first to tell the people they've misqouted to back off and shut up. I never had any need to clarify my header from the original post because the very text of the message made it quite clear I was referring to people who don't make their own content and take from others. You sir are the one who went on to Assume I ment every tuber and also to actually go so far as to put the word ALL in my message where it never was to begin with. Maybe next time you should slow down and read the actual message before getting your hackles up and starting an argument that never needed occur. If you had I'd never have associated your ire with guilt. In anycase, I like popcorn.
::sigh:: And I find it even more hilarious when someone posts something idiotic, gets called on it & then persists in trying to defend an untenable position (see also: ronknights. How about if I throw up the following post... Mizraels Should be Banned!!! by cooler on 3/3/05 If they can't contribute intelligently to a thread they have no business being on this site! Note: It doesn't say some Mizraels, most Mizraels, a few Mizraels, or even Mizraels who slip into pink lingerie & stalk small woodland creatures in the moonlight. otay lest deal with your last post... I find it funny that the people who actually start the arguments by misreading what has been said are always the first to tell the people they've misqouted to back off and shut up. care to show me where I misquoted you or told you to "shut up"? I never had any need to clarify my header from the original post because the very text of the message made it quite clear I was referring to people who don't make their own content and take from others. care to show me where the qualifier "and take from others" magically appears? You sir are the one who went on to Assume I ment every tuber and also to actually go so far as to put the word ALL in my message where it never was to begin with. Plagarism is a serious charge. Again show me where I edited anything deliberately misleading into your post & I'll retract everything I've said. Maybe next time you should slow down and read the actual message before getting your hackles up and starting an argument that never needed occur. If you had I'd never have associated your ire with guilt. In anycase, I like popcorn. And I'd strongly suggest you slow down & think about how your message will affect other people before you post something with an intentionally inflammitory title. extra butter & salt on mine with a Dr. Pepper on the side :-)
Ok, let's start with your first response to me where you started off with adding the word ALL to what I said:
- Re: A Poser Among Us? by cooler on 3/3/05 16:18
/SET mode +sarcasm
"Yep Ban all them dirty tubers!!! They're not like US! I mean it's not like they do REAL art or anything
/Set mode -sarcasm
You'll note I am acknowleging your use of "Sarcasm" mode.
It's still inflamatory and puts words where none were spoken by me.
?
Plagarism is a serious charge. Again show me where I edited anything deliberately misleading into your post & I'll retract everything I've said.
So with that very first quote from your very first response to me I've shown where you misrepresented what I said. Care to call out the lawyers on Plagerism now
Second It's not just YOU that I'm having to defend myself to. Randym77 is the one telling me I should stop posting my opinions which in effect is telling me to "Shut Up".
Message edited on: 03/03/2005 21:28
oh please... If you honestly think "Yep Ban all them dirty tubers!!! They're not like US! I mean it's not like they do REAL art or anything" is intended to be a direct quote you really need to get out more. The /sarcasm tags make it a first person statement of mine as if I were agreeing with you. and btw I was in error, what you accused me of was misattribution (deliberate misquotation), not Plagiarism (taking credit for someone elses work). and as far as... Second It's not just YOU that I'm having to defend myself to. Randym77 is the one telling me I should stop posting my opinions which in effect is telling me to "Shut Up". Aside from another flip-flop (tell the people they've misqouted to back off and shut up magically changes to in effect... telling me to "Shut Up") note: bold added for emphasis I don't see the place in post #32 that you refer to anyone but me. Despite the one generic use of "the people" you immediately limit that by use of "the first" and repeatedly the singular "you". Not that I mind taking credit :-) By the way I'm still waiting for the magic edit fairy to tell me where the phrase "and take from others" appeared in your original post and for you to show me where anything I took directly from your posts was misquoted.
Well with all the assumptions and inferrals you and Randym77 have made I think it's quite fair of me to assume that the "and take from others" could be inferred by the topic of the thread which was about people taking content that they did not create and making tube out of said content.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander they say.
Point 1: The thread is about Tubers who Steal
Point 2: My post states that "Tubers who don't make their own content should be banned" this should be understood as those tuber's who are stealing other's work.
Point 3: You added the word "All" and used my name and Sarte's in your first post not stating who you were attributing the word's usage to but you added it to a variation of my own words so I could infer you were misquoting me.
So I still stand by my first posting. It's about theft incase you haven't been reading the whole thread. It's about Tubers who Steal. Do you still want to continue defending those people? I never said All should be banned. And finally, as someone who represents a company in the copyright arena, I find it a very poor representation of your employer to be getting into petty arguments where you are representing your employer. Especially taking a stance that appears to support the theft of someone else's intellectual property.
Message edited on: 03/03/2005 22:22
"Anyone with half a brain would know that our indignation is based on the fact that there's a HUGE kernal of truth that Tuber's Steal." You know? I bet I can get waaay more hits on Kazaa and eDonkey from using "Poser" as a search term than I ever would from "tubes"... so, err, be careful where you're swinging that thing, willya? Fact is, lots of folks steal lots of things - but I certainly wouldn't make a monster newbie mistake like lumping in whole swaths of folks just because of their hobby. There are legit tuber-types out there too - I happen to know two of 'em in Salt Lake City. They create and trade legit tubes as tattoo flash for their day jobs. Incidentally, I also wouldn't do something uber-newbish like slag on one of the biggest unofficial copyright authorities in Poserdom either... Well, I'd slag on Cooler, but only 'cause he likes it, the dirty little so-and-so (and did I mention he's lazy, too?) Just a thought, Mizrael - before you whip out a big ol' paintbrush, perhaps you oughta check and make sure that paint of yours don't splatter all over everybody else, eh? ;) Be excellent to each other, /P
Frankly I never said ALL tubers and your indignation reeks of someone who's feeling a tad bit guilty. Yeah, cooler, quit making those damned illegal tubes! We all know you're doing it and just trying to cover up for it by working as the Copyright Enforcement Rep for DAZ3D and posting all those helpful copyright information posts! Admit it, you're a snagger and a tuber! ;-) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Mizrael:
Randym77 is right.
Cooler is both very well known and very well liked within the community.
In addition to which -- he's generous and helpful.
Totally aside from the "rights & wrongs" of the situation: you'll not win any joy of this one.
Well, I'd slag on Cooler, but only 'cause he likes it, the dirty little so-and-so (and did I mention he's lazy, too?) Yeah but I make up for it by being cute, fuzzy, loveable, & a teriffic dancer :-) Yeah, cooler, quit making those damned illegal tubes! We all know you're doing it and just trying to cover up for it by working as the Copyright Enforcement Rep for DAZ3D and posting all those helpful copyright information posts! Admit it, you're a snagger and a tuber! ;-) the only hard part is trying to disguise all those illegal tubes as free models :-) Thanx Xenophonz... need a job as a press agent? :-) Now on to you Miz, Look you can't have it both ways. On one hand, despite the title of your 1st post, you're pissed at me for "inferring" you meant ALL tubers (bad thing). Then you pull a John Kerry & tell everyone else to "infer" that you ACTUALLY meant "only tubers who steal" (good thing) although you don't clarify that until later. Bad logic based on a poor premise isn't going to win many arguments. As far as who I work for it wasn't germane to my initial post & it's even less relevant now. In fact it never would have been an issue if someone else hadn't mentioned it. However if you really think that my taking exception with your call for banning tubers reflects badly on DAZ feel free to take it up with Eric Allen (he's my day-to-day contact at DAZ) or ultimately with Dan Farr/Chris Creek (they own the place) You can give them a call at 1-800-267-5170 any time M-F 9:00am-5:00pm MST. Tell them I sent you & you'll find that, unlike me, they are really nice guys :-)
Thanx Xenophonz... need a job as a press agent? :-)
I call 'em like I see 'em.
When I think highly of someone -- then I don't make a secret of it.
Likewise, when I think....uh......"less than highly" of someone (or of their behavior) -- I tend to not make a secret of that fact, either.
Frankly, I am mildly suprised that this thread hasn't been nixed.........I'm not asking for that to happen......some issues are allowed to play out, I suppose.
I may get trashed for this, but I do not see anything wrong with using tubes. It is a form of art as well like a collage, you know what the kids do when they cut images out of magazines and make a picture with them. Now for the other hand, people selling or giving away tubes of peoples work who they do not have permission to use is wrong, but if they make their own tubes and what not, do not offer them to anyone else then I do not see what is wrong with it. I would consider it flattery that someone wanted to use my art to make art :)
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Post 17: Cooler Misrepresents what I said and puts words in my mouth I did not use. Post 20: Cooler Paints me out to be a Bigot because of his own misrepresentation of my words. Post 31: Cooler paints me out to be a Troll (Someone who's only purpose at Renderosity is to start arguments, something my history here proves not to be the case) Post 35: Cooler calls me idiotic. Now if you'll excuse me, but saying I'm only pissed because you misread my first post is going a bit too far. I've not called you any names, as you have done to me. Beyond pointing out your assumptions and misrepresentations, I've done nothing to justify this "Make Miz out to be a villan" hijacking that you've done to a thread about Tuber's who Steal. In fact I've stuck to the point that Tuber's who Steal should not be allowed here. You are the one who's time and again made it personal and about me which has nothing to do with the original poster's intent of the thread. So when you can admit that, then, maybe, You'll earn my respect. Til then I have nothing else to say to you except you're wrong.
OK folks... I do not really want to lock this thread. It seems we ALL agree that SOME tubers do steal others' work, and that is Wrong. After some clarification... it seems we also all accept that there are some tubers who do work within the law, creating original and creative images. Mizrael, your initial post was perhaps made in the heat of the moment, and on reflection, maybe you can see that you did make some rather sweeping statements which have upset others. Rather than clarify your intent and clear up misunderstandings, you have chosen to go on the attack, which I do not understand. May I suggest you reread your initial post and consider just why it has annoyed others? And then perhaps we can drop this matter - on which we all seem to agree the fundamentals anyway (that theft is Wrong) - and get on with creating some art of our own? Thank you. Karen Poser Moderator
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Karen, I "Clarified" my post not just once but several times during this whole fiasco by stating I never called "All" tuber's theives. I'm not the person who made it personal by using derogatory remarks about a person's character such as the remarks Cooler's made about mine. Does theft anger me? You betcha! Does name calling piss me off? Oh Yeah! You can consider the matter dropped by me. I've no need to drop to Cooler's level of name calling and misqouting to make my point. I made it in my first post and clarified it by Post 25. Cooler even acknowledged that I clarified my stance in post 31 where he also used his second derogatory and inflamatory statement directed at me. Maybe someone should consider an appology here for all the name calling.
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Seems that now we do not have to even move outside the Renderosity galleries to find people willing to take our work and use it as they see fit.The image on the left is mine, it's still in my gallery. You can find it here.
BikerBitchNo01's image is here.
That tattoo on the model's back is one that I handpainted myself ... I haven't even used it on a product or for anything else ... only in this image. And I certainly didn't share it with anyone. Anyway, it's obvious that this person is using my work as her own, and I'm sure I am not the only one.