"But it exists and until it is fixed it is a major impediment to doing anything serious with P6." That to me sounds like exaggerating the whole problem. By now I've created a full comic in P6 (it's on it's way way to the printer as we speak for a first series of 5500 to be printed) and I'm working on a second comic by now. But of course that's nothing serious at all. The problem is that some of you seem so scared by the bug, that it paralizes you, putting the same fear into others. But as we've seen from this thread, there are many using P6 with pleasure and without problems. The bug is there, but it seems to affect some worse then others, haven't figured out why that is..... For some it kicks in with even small scenes, with others only when using larger scenes. For me it only comes when using more then 9 fully textured & clothed figures and for time being I can live with that. But to claim nothing serious can be done is just stretching it way to far. "Over the last years, I have mentioned a few things here and there about P5's rendering problems. Ultimately, I was forced to do all of my rendering in Vue. Because P5 just couldn't do the job. So.......P6 comes along. Hurray! Now I can render my scenes natively in Poser......." Funny that you mention that, I was thinking the same thing. Actually I've already sold Vue 5 and am using P6 only for my creations (with some help of of TrueSpace for modeling). Fortunally for me the bug hasn't stopped me from switching completely. As for the corrupted scenes,I'm not sure if that is even related to the memory bug at all. I've encountered the bug a couple of times when pushing P6 to the edge, but none of my files has been corrupted at all. I'm using 16bits too, so perhaps jjsemp may be correct in his findings.

"That to me sounds like exaggerating the whole problem. By now I've created a full comic in P6 (it's on it's way way to the printer as we speak for a first series of 5500 to be printed) and I'm working on a second comic by now. But of course that's nothing serious at all."

Everyone uses Poser in different ways for different kinds of work. I have managed to reduce the memory bug issue by various means (posted at RDNA) and that works fine for low resource intensive scenes. Start adding figures (and I don't mean 20 V3s) clothing, hair, props and a few other goodies to the scene and it is a no-go.

I don't know your work requirements or your system or even how you work. (I have my own solutions such as multiple renders of partial elements in the same scene with Photoshop composition as the solution for the final image). However, I can render much more stuff in P5 in one pass without a Memory Bug problems than I can in P6.

That is a serious problem that needs to be fixed and it is no exaggeration to say it is one. And I am not scared to push the limits, the problems are the lost time and file defragmentation that results with a major Poser crash.

Message edited on: 04/14/2005 16:48

And in the spirit of contributing something USEFUL to the discussion

People shouldn't type in all caps like that. Yelling that way is just so gauche.

I don't think anybody thinks that this is "faked up problem". I can't recall a single person accusing anybody of complaining without just cause.

Oh?

Some things are communicated by "yelling" implications and by attitudes........rather than by the facility of explicit statements.

*Furthermore, nobody's ignoring this problem. But the memory problem has been talked about to death, this thread adds nothing new to the discussion, and more complaining isn't really going to help. I think there's a point at which complaining becomes counter-productive. It reaches its saturation point and there really isn't anything NEW to be said. And, not that you're one of them, but I am tired of hearing from people who have an axe to grind against CL and want to proudly proclaim that they're glad THEY didn't upgrade to P6 because (fill in the blanks). Who cares?

I said this back in the middle of the Poser 5 brouhaha and I'll say it again today. This is a ridiculously cheap, amazingly powerful little piece of software that's being held together by spit and glue. But the company has never abandoned it. They've managed to find a way to keep it going, and we have to have a little patience and faith, and give them our support.

If you want a higher order of perfection and sophistication for two-hundred bucks (or less), you're not living in the real world. There isn't even one piece of software that does this same kind of stuff for the same price. As of this writing, Daz Studio does NOT do animation. And I've been using Hash Animator since back in the old Amiga days, and it's always been as buggy as the jungles of the Amazon on a hot day.*

I agree with about 90% of what you have to say here. And I have consistently been one of CL's defenders on this board.

Yes.....the obssessive-compulsive Curious Labs bashers have motivations that go beyond simply pointing out technical problems. It's a personal thing with them. And I recognize that fact.

BUT (there I go, yelling again): that fact in no way mitigates a REAL (yelling) problem.

Just because certain individuals are paranoid doesn't mean that we don't have a real issue here. And an issue that's worthy of being talked about. Until such time as it gets fixed.

You know.......it's an odd approach to attack a problem like the memory bug by telling those discussing it that they need to be quiet. Just shut up.

After all, it's not bothering me -- so why should I be concerned about it for others? Those people just need to stop talking and go away.

I am not sorry to say this at all -- I have NO (yelling) intentions of "shutting up and going away" on this issue.

Some might not like it: tough.

who's REALLY feeling fiesty today

Do you have to yell like that?

How rude!

That is a serious problem that needs to be fixed and it is no exaggeration to say it is one.

Yes. I totally agree with you.

But we really should stop yelling......er......talking about the issue. Or so I've been told, anyway.

Pointing out a genuine problem is bad form.

;-)

I never said yelling wasn't fun (it's GREAT fun) or wasn't allowed in this forum. I simply pointed out that yelling at CL about the memory bug problem wasn't going to achieve anything. And it won't. CL said right up front that they were aware of the problem and were going to fix it. What more do you want them to do? That's not a rhetorical question. I'm really curious --EXACTLY what more do you want them to do? And I never told anybody to "shut up and go away." That IS rude, offensive and gauche. What I asked was, what more can be gained by shouting at CL to fix the problem? If they were ignoring us and not responding, then we'd have every right to raise the hue and cry. But the problem was announced, CL said they were aware of it and were trying to fix it -- end of story. We can discuss our common "memory bug" experiences or try to solve the problem temporarily ourselves by sharing information, but constantly shouting at CL to fix it gets us nowhere. And it smacks of gratuitous CL-bashing, which I find counter-productive and pointless. It's like shouting at Blackhearted to let go of his head. -jjsemp

CL said right up front that they were aware of the problem and were going to fix it. What more do you want them to do? That's not a rhetorical question. I'm really curious --EXACTLY what more do you want them to do? How about a refund of our purchase price if it doesn't get fixed until Poser 9? >:) HOW ABOUT, IN THE FUTURE, NOT SELLING CRAP UNTIL IT'S BEEN THOROUGHLY TESTED AND DEBUGGED. (I know, that's way too much to expect from them. If they didn't learn that with P5, they're probably not going to learn it at all.)

"How about a refund of our purchase price if it doesn't get fixed until Poser 9? >:) HOW ABOUT, IN THE FUTURE, NOT SELLING CRAP UNTIL IT'S BEEN THOROUGHLY TESTED AND DEBUGGED. (I know, that's way too much to expect from them. If they didn't learn that with P5, they're probably not going to learn it at all.)" ___________________________________________________ Good point. Follow your own advice. If you're unhappy, return the software and get your money back. Last time I checked, that was an option that every respectable vendor offers to every repectable purchaser. I'm sure CL is no different. I doubt that they've skipped town in the middle of the night with your paltry two-hundred bucks. See there's a difference between endlessly bitching about something and simply acting proactively. Unhappy? Return the product and get a refund and go buy 3D Studio Max. Why complain to us? P6 isn't crap by any stretch of the imagination, and NO piece of software arrives "thoroughly tested and debugged". What planet are you living on? Oh, I get it. It's simply more fun to bitch, bitch, bitch. "CL are crooks. P6 is crap." Blah, blah, blah. Fine. You have every right, so I'll just leave you to it. -jjsemp

My Computer AMD Athlon 2400+ (1.8ghz) 768MB dual DDR RAM Geforce 2 MX 64MB (my lordy! thats old) Windows XP sp2 I keep task manager running ever since I heard of this memory problem, and Poser 6 generally sits at 500Mb commit, and ups to over 800Mb commit while rendering, but always drops to the 500-600Mb commit mark when rendering stops. For me the only problem with P6 I have is the EXTREME interface slow down compared to Poser 5, it's never crashed on me (i've had it cancel the render by itself) My rendering settings : Shadows : yes Texture Filter : No RayTrace : yes Raytrace Bounces : 6 Min Shading Rate : 0.00 Pixel Samples : 10 Max Texture Size : 4096 Max Bucket Size : 64 Min Displacement Bounds : 0.00 Smooth Polygons : Yes Use Displacement : Yes Post Filter Size : 2 Post Filter Type : Sync I always use IBL and AO at the moment (cause there new!) the most complex scene I have worked on so far is V3, C4U clothes, over 15 pieces of furniature, a room with windows and doors modelled, 90% of stuff has textures. V3 has one of my famous overly-complex node setups on her. has anyone considered that the problem that might be occoring (and why some are not effected) is due to windows, and in particular, the updates? I have not updated my windows for over 3 months (because everything works great, and I always say, "if it aint broke, dont fix it!)

If you're unhappy, return the software and get your money back. I requested an RMA this morning. I'll give them a couple of days, request again, and then go to my credit card company if I have to. See there's a difference between endlessly bitching about something and simply acting proactively. Couldn't agree more. However, members of this forum have the right to see both sides.

Okay, I have not piped in on these discussions (and I use that term loosely!) I have an AMD 2800 with 1GB of RAM and a nVidia GeForce 6200 with 256MB. I am running WinXP with AVG and Wins own Firewall. I just finished a 10 second animation with 8 figures, several of them Mil3 figures. The lighting was simple, due to the nature of the animation, but I had no trouble whatsoever with Memory issues, any crashes, saves, etc... This is not a powerhouse machine, but it is set up for Graphics work only, and no games. I run Works Calendar, IE, Outlook Express, Bookshelf(I can not spell well!), Bryce, Shade, FastCAD, PSP, and Poser along with several other programs at the same time. So far I have not crashed a single program (out of all of these, the most unstable is the stupid Calender and its reminders!). When I had issues in the past similar to what many are describing with other programs, I finally traced it to the latest game and something it had installed on my system to make the game work with my soundcard and video card. I did a complete uninstall of the game and issue went away. Since then I stopped playing games on my machine that I use for work. I do not know if this may be the cause, but I mention it, because some people were having an issue with Norton (I think) at one time.

And I never told anybody to "shut up and go away." That IS rude, offensive and gauche.

No, you didn't word it in that fashion.

But that is the thrust of what you've been saying.

What I asked was, what more can be gained by shouting at CL to fix the problem? If they were ignoring us and not responding, then we'd have every right to raise the hue and cry. But the problem was announced, CL said they were aware of it and were trying to fix it -- end of story.

I don't really have any problems with this statement.

But since what you suggest isn't what I am doing, your point here utterly escapes me.

However, I have to admit that your own approach to the problem puzzles me.

We aren't allowed to discuss the issue.

How very strange.

I'm really curious --EXACTLY what more do you want them to do?

I'm really curious -- WHY does this matter to you?

For someone that apparently regards a serious flaw in the software as a thing to be overlooked, and not to be discussed too thoroughly by others.......you shouldn't care. Why does it matter?

However, I will say this much: it would help if they would keep us updated on what's going on.

constantly shouting at CL to fix it gets us nowhere. And it smacks of gratuitous CL-bashing, which I find counter-productive and pointless.

I agree with you.

That's why I'm not constantly shouting at CL. Nor am I CL-bashing.

If you care to re-read my posts in this thread, you will note that I give full credit where credit is due.

Likewise, I make no attempts to hide from reality. Even when that reality is a negative one.

That would be counter-productive and pointless.

I have not updated my windows for over 3 months (because everything works great, and I always say, "if it aint broke, dont fix it!) A co-worker of mine received a virus on his office computer. The virus would have been fended off of his machine if he had performed regular updates.

P6 isn't crap by any stretch of the imagination On this point, we agree. Outside of the memory bug, P6 is golden.

jjsemp, XENOPHONZ, how 'bout we let it go? I mean passion can be a very good thing, but why not save it for the ART? And as for CL bashing, I at least was mostly clowning. I only meant to convey that I like Poser 6 a lot, and it is just very frustrating that I can't really use it as effectively as I'd like.

how 'bout we let it go?

I suspect that this thread is about done anyway. It's on the second page. 3rd page: and not many people will notice it any longer. Including moi.

Frankly, I agree with about 85 to 90 percent of what jjsemp has to say.

But just like the memory bug -- it's that 10% at the end that causes the render to crash.

Ah, well......we haven't heard the last of this issue. Not by a long shot.

I hope that anyone who objects to discussing the subject will take the simple expedient of avoiding the conversation.

Better for all concerned.

Because some of us aren't going to leave off talking about a flaw this central to the program that we are addicted to.

Poser works fine for me. Oops, forgot I'm using Poser 4. But seriously folks since this thing seems to be cumulative to some extent, kicking in after a certain amount of use, has anyone tried using one of the RAM freeing utilities periodically while running P6--possibly a stopgap help until the (demons/victims) at CL git 'er done? "If the police arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain silent?" - George Carlin

geez, i had no idea it was such a mystery.. im holding my head because im dead tired, it was like 4am and after some out of focus and underexposed shots i was just hoping to get the damn thing over with. as for P6, ill buy the darn thing when the bugs are finally ironed out - im on slowass dialup now and i can't afford to be downloading hundreds of megs of patches. CL has a history of releasing bug-laden software that should have been in beta testing for a few more months, i hope they smarten up by P7.

Lol! I'd be holding my head too if I had to have my pic on the front page here and ended up with remarks like, maybe he's bald! Big pimple or wart anyone? Maybe covering up a third eye?? A forehead nipple? Wooooh, creepy! I might be tempted to holding or covering up other areas too, never know what kind of imaginations run rampant here. The TOS only covers posted pictures, the thoughts are still there!

"because im dead tired, it was like 4am and after some out of focus and underexposed shots i was just hoping to get the damn thing over with." --- Oh c'mon Blackhearted, you expect us to believe that? What kind of fools do you take us for? ;*)

Very foolish! It IS a third eye he's hiding you know, and it's always watching!

notice the one on my artist page has it covered too... its a conspiracy. (speaking of which, i should ditch the santa hat since xmas was like 5 months ago. the next photo will reveal that i actually have a little guy growing out of my forehead - like quato from total recall.. he holds my cigars for me sometimes)

nice... LOL

(speaking of which, i should ditch the santa hat since xmas was like 5 months ago. the next photo will reveal that i actually have a little guy growing out of my forehead - like quato from total recall.. he holds my cigars for me sometimes) Handy, a "nicotiene co-processor!" ;)