I have seen the face of ultimate bonehead dork evilness present in our world. It is called SONY. A lot of you were up in arms that SONY is virusing all your computers with rootkits installed to thier media CD's You can now add to that, that they are demanding Credit Card information for registration of thier most popular online games. They have also stopped all online support for over a full week that I can see. Anyone remember that killer game called SOCOM Navy SEALs? most awesome online combat game, released by a totally incompetant company called Zipper interactive. They make a game full of holes, bugs and exploits, and charge us $50, then when exploits become rampant because of the weak code SONY swears up and down they are going to make improvements. What happens, they sit with thier thumbs up thier asses, then make a second version of the title. Once again full of holes, exploits, cheats, and glitches to ruin play for honest players. They charge $50 for this, swear version 2 of the game is the new era of no cheating. Well they provide an 800 number, swear up and down that they will ban abusers, and for over 2 years, I havent been able to get a single racist, online death-threat/stalker abuser, or major cheater banned. 2 years of being ignored and broken promises from SONY after spending $50 2 years of additional lack of service, unfullfulment of promises for online experience, lies about having calls returned by upper level net admins to address problems, all after spending a second $50 on the second title. Now, thier customer support lines all say "sorry with our call volume we are unable to answer you CLICK", the third title is out, for yet another $50 but now to enjoy full features of the game (SOCOM 3) you must give a valid credit card to SONY. They say they dont intend to charge they just want to sit on the info. What the crap is THAT?????? And now they are expanding thier customer abuse to thier non-gaming clients with rootkits in music CD's? sorry if this isnt a "for your kid sisters eys" style comment, but FUCK SONY and everything to do with it. I think this company needs to be boycotted, I think this company needs to be flooded with unhappy emails, and I REALLY think someone in the legal knowhow needs to figure out if a class-action lawsuit is possible to create against these idiots on behalf of everyone rootkitted. Sorry to rant, but lost the last of my calm right after typing OT..... Is anyone else this appalled and upset or do I need to seek therapy or a beer or possibly beer-therapy?

They're doing that right now in Italia. That rootkit stuff might violate some Italian laws, and the government is currently investigating whether it's a case. I certainly hope more governments will look into this. For now I'll just boycot Sony music and software. P.S.: Beer therapy - I think I could like that! Cheers!

I have never been more proud to be an Italian-American than at this moment :)

Sony seems to have declared war on their customers. Are theytrying to delberately put themselves out of business or something, i wonder?

Attached Link: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-11-11-sony-bmg-suspends_x.htm?csp=24

I still don't trust them though.

I don't plan to buy any Sony CDs or DVDs, but it may expose this site to some risk if they appear to be supporting a boycott. The reason is that in their jurisdiction, boycotts are often ruled illegal. If you guys just do it informally, and maybe send Sony an e-mail, that might work just as well.

And Queen Elizabeth is a drug traficker. I have proof. Take the corporation hatred some other place, please. :] Fish

I first posted about Sony in that rootkit thread. They are a totally ruthless company.

The response to my messages sprinkled around the Net were overwhelmingly in agreement with me. As far as I know, no one has disagreed that Sony is flat out wrong.

It is disgusting the way they are conducting business of late. This is just another issue to add on to the list.

I read today though, that anti-virus companies are going to include updates to kill the Sony rootkit. Also, it looks like Sony is actually being investigated, and they have claimed they will release a fix to get rid of it.

The Net is an amazing place. We as a world community have banded together to fight what we all* consider a wrong against us!

*The use of the word all is disclaimed to not include every single person in the world. As I stated, I haven't seen anyone disagree yet, so I am using all in that sense. Thank you for not flaming! =)

It's not just Sony, FishNose, these big boys all need watching. I think a boycott of Sony is unreasonable. Kind of hard to aviod their products. Still and all the consumer should be active to protect their rights. The only tool we have to voice our opinions is our pocket books. There are a number of companies I avoid because I don't agree with their practices, mass (US Mail) sending, spamming, etc. I've NEVER shopped at a Walmart or Lowes. Those two fill my mail box with junk every week. I'll avoid Sony. If they are sending out CDs with viruses on them they should be avoided! Best Wishes All, Rance

I agree also that this is not corporation bashing in this case. Probably at least 80% of the members here will have at least a digital camera, most also will have a camcorder. Sony is a big player in both, and I for one don't want to line the pockets of a company who deliberately implant destructive programs on expensive computers that I legally paid for. Who the hell do they think they are anyway?

Sorry, but I like Sony electronics.

I have a Sony VCR that worked great for years after I bought it used so I thought they made great products. After going through a nightmare with a tapedrive I bought from them and the lack of support, plus other things I've read over the years, I long ago vowed to avoid anything with their brand on it. Since they went Hollywood and decided to become another mini nation-state corporate kleptocracy, they've lost the qualities that made them a great company. Unfortunately, the tradition of disembowelment for incompetence has been replaced by the American one of just give 'em a bigger salary.

My brother has a Sony television that has to be 25 years old or more. It still works.

That tape drive wasn't a DVD/VCR combo was it? I bought one of those late in 2003. To make a long story short, because my TV wasn't a Sony I had so many remotes and it was a complicated process to play a DVD that I put off using it until I got a Sony TV, which was summer of 2004. Over the next few months I watched 1 DVD per month. I had to stop a DVD part way through and left the DVD in so that I could watch it another night. A month later I went to watch it, only it wouldn't play.

I tried all kinds of things from "rebooting", to cleaning it with one of those cleaning paks, but it wouldn't play any DVD's. I had purchased an extended warranty on it (by that time the manufacturer one had expired).

The company picked it up and found that it had a some kind of clause attached to it that only Sony could repair this particular model, so they sent it to Sony. I got it back weeks later, only not only would it not play a DVD, but there was something else wrong too. LOL

I called the company again, they picked it once more and they said they were going to send it back for repair. I told them I had no plan on waiting another 6 weeks and insisted on a new one. They gave me another Sony DVD/VCR combo unit, but it was the next model up. I haven't had a problem since, and I would still buy more Sony electronics.

Perhaps their quality isn't what it was 25 years ago, but that goes without saying about everything. I still think Sony is an excellent brand.

However, I don't agree with planting spyware/trojans in order to protect their interests. By doing that, by trying to catch a thief, they have become a thief themself.

Message edited on: 11/11/2005 17:35

As someone who was well up the Sony corporate heirarchy, I can assure you that Sony divisions are very, very isolated from each other. To the point of almost being a problem. Most major divisions report separately into the head of Sony directly. So what Sony BMG does to, and thinks of, their customers is very different to other parts of Sony. That's why the latest IP protection code stops Sony BMG CDs playing on Sony portables, and the HDD based Sony In-car unit! So you can go on liking Sony Electronics if you wish, just stay clear of Sony BMG. But here's a better idea - stop buying music CD's from all sources - short of directly from the artists. Such a stance would stop this customer abuse by the music studios of both us the consumer, and the musicians!!! And it's a rational stance to take, as F4I has, or is in the process of, selling their code to 4 other producers of CDs. Plus they had press released a new "improved" version of this UTICA inspired DRM enforcemnet, even before the Sony BMG code was discovered... And remember audio CDs have long lives. And this code breaks totally Windows versions later than XP (e.g. 64 bit Windows, Vista, etc.) So inserting a Sony BMG in your Personal Confuser in, say, 2008 could do even more damage than it does today!

sony who?

Is something worst that is behind Sony BMG, Microsoft! Is inadmisible that an operating system has a function that allows to hide processes when logged with administrative rights. Microsoft create the tools for Microsoft be able to control your computer, but these same tools can be used by Sony, hackers, spywares, virus, pirates and criminals. Today is Sony, tommorow some bandit will empty your bank account and meantime you continue buying Microsoft products!

I agree Sony may be an excellent brand,and my parents also have a Sony portable TV that is 25years or more old that still works, BUT when is it acceptable for these (or any) company to install,infect,spy,destroy etc anything you own just because you buy their products???? You bought their cd so why on bloody earth should it infect your computer with something that malicious? IF i wanted it illegally (as it is in the UK)i would look on a P2P, but i didnt, i bought it, so saying it prevents piracy is CRAP.... And i dont buy a car only to find that at 80mph the ejector seat activates and hurles me into the oncoming traffic because i was going too fast. This is corporate snooping gone mad, (which i thought was illegal as well). My advice to SONY and all those other companies is, STOP IT, you wont stop piracy by attacking the law abiding people. ie there are Pirate films that come straight from the film studios, so what im trying to say is... IF someone really wants to pirate something, hack something, they will, no matter what sony does, all this does is STING its customers, and in part looses them... I myself will be watching, to see if Sony does something about this or just brushes it under the carpet. Ohh and why isn't this in the Tabloids??? are they scared of being sued?

** If they are sending out CDs with viruses on them they should be avoided!** If they are sending out viruses, they should be jailed just like any other virus writer..and made pay for the computers they ruin. >:(

Attached Link: http://techdirt.com/articles/20051111/1221240_F.shtml

Sony Finally Stops Producing Rootkits... Temporarily (see link) I also heard that McAfee and Norton has classified the SONY software as "malware"... but I can't find the link to the story. It should only be a matter of time before Ad-Aware and SpyBot produce updates to remove the SONY software. I also heard that someone has already created a virus to take advantage of the hole opened by the SONY software... though I can't find a link to that story either. I really need to write down these websites when I'm surfing the web at lunch. Getting off-topic" *Ohh and why isn't this in the Tabloids??? are they scared of being sued?* The tabliods probably figure that the average American would rather hear about Paris Hilton's exploits or the latest news on Tom & Katie. After all, everyone can understand a story about Tom Cruise, but what's a "rootkit" and "DRM" and "malware" and... --John

"That tape drive wasn't a DVD/VCR combo was it?" Nope computer backup drive. Kawecki is global warming caused by Windows making our PCs run too hot as well?

It's the Stinx-E trojan that is using the Sony stealth module to hide itself. This little bugger isn't new, but a rehash of a nasty one. It actively seeks to penetrate firewalls, and opens certain back doors to permit remote accessing of a computer. Oh, and just so's you all know, a friend lost their computer to this piece of garbage. the rootkit trashed the harddrive, and she has had to replace it, as the damage was irrecoverable. If you get infected with it, make backups of your perishable data immediately.....or suffer the consequences....

It is common to say that all systems are hackeable or unsecure and Windows is most hacked just because it is most used. This is not true, Windows is hackeable because is unsecure. There are no ways to hack a secure system, a secure system has no elements to allow the hackers enter. A simple analogy, you have a light bulb with a password protected switch to turn off the light. It is always possible that some breaks the code and turn off the light. Now you have another system that has no switch, there's no way to turn off the light, no codes to break. You can argue that you can cut the wires, but for cutting the wires you have to break the wall and cut the wires, then the system is not more the original system and is not working anymore! In other words, if you uninstall Linux and install Windows, Linux will not exist anymore. Basic requirements for a secure operational system 1) In user mode. There is no way to install something that can alter the operational system. You can only install programs. If the program doesn't work properly, it can crash but never will affect other users or the operational system. Installation of Sony junk or any virus is impossible because requires the modification of the operational system that is not allowed in used mode. 2) Supervisor mode You can install programs or modify the operational system. If the modification doesn't work properly will affect all users. In supervisor you have risk of hackers or virus, but all the risk are removed if the operational system doen't allow automatic installation of software or operational system modification. No more automatic updates, no more autorun, no more hidden installations, no java script installs. To install some update there is always a two step process. 1) Download 2) Install with confirmation (optional for more security, you must comfirm with a password for any installation). For more security you can run some antivirus between steps 1 and 2. Any operational system that fulfilles those requirements will be secure and inpossible to be hacked, hijacked or virused.

Be even more secure.... encase your computer in a concrete block and never ever turn it on. you miss the point. yes we know windows aint' the most secure thing around. the POINT is Sony broke the law. SONY used virus techniques. attack SONY. SONY are the ones that did this. (note - point will be missed by a certain someone as usual ;))

"the POINT is Sony broke the law."
Yes, privacy laws and private property laws.

"SONY used virus techniques"
No, Sony used the tools provided by Microsoft.
Aries.sys is the file installed by Sony to hide files, directories and task. Aries.sys performs Windows function calls that hides these elements, this function exist in the Microsoft operating system kernel!!!!

Message edited on: 11/11/2005 21:08

From Symantec site (Norton) When SecurityRisk.First4DRM is executed, it performs the following actions: 1. Copies itself as the following file: %System%$sys$filesystemaries.sys. Note: %System% is a variable that refers to the System folder. By default this is C:WindowsSystem (Windows 95/98/Me), C:WinntSystem32 (Windows NT/2000), or C:WindowsSystem32 (Windows XP). 2. Creates the following registry subkey: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESystemCurrentControlSetServices$sys$aries which loads the risk as a device driver when the compromised computer is started.

stay safe - install CP/M!

Even though it is extremely OT, since this was a posting about the problems with Sony, I will sound off on the "secure system" argument.

Did you hear the new "big threat" virus this week? Can't recall the name of it off-hand, but guess what OS it affects? Windows? NOPE. Linux? YES.

Firefox is more secure than IE right? NOPE. A critical flaw was found in the code just this past summer.

Drop the MS makes crappy OSs argument. It is old and tired now. Not to mention, totally untrue. None of the desktop OSs are fully secure. Plain and simple, if someone wants in, they will get in. MS is the big target because they OWN the desktop PC. It's simply a numbers game. Why attack the 2 people with Linux when you can hit the 12 with Windows?

Let it go already. MS has to leave the backdoors open FOR THEMSELVES. They do it so that they CAN provide updates to PROTECT your PC. MS doesn't sit back and say "Hey, who really cares if someone hacks our system? We still get paid." They work on new fixes constantly, so that they can protect their INVESTMENT. The users of Windows systems.

So let's direct the convo back to Sony, who has blatantly hijacked people's systems with their software.

Quite simply, I think it is time that laws are enacted to punish cyber crime in the same manner as "real world" property. To steal a car is Grand Theft (anything over $20k.) So if Sony hijacks say, 10,000 computers (low-ball estimate) at an average cost of $1,000 USD each, that is a total of $10,000,000 USD. That's a lot of cars. Same goes for virus writers, who infect multiples of that number, plus cause financial damages to corporations. Those are nice long prison sentences, and hefty fines. I think this might help stem the tide of copmputer-hijacking. It won't fully stop it, but it might just help keep some in line.

Actually, there's a better solution. Take MS into court yet again and force the decoupling of IE and Outlook and the scripting host from the shell, as =NONE= of that is part of an operating system. That removes the most used vectors (as MS Java has already been whacked firmly). Require an -Non- active desktop as an option, which will close the most common Active X exploits. Passing laws won't stop the script kiddies; what will is decoupling the main infection vectors (and having done just that with 98lite, and watching several nasty virii just sit and suck their widdle toes because the files they needed to damage things simply were not on my system of that time, I can speak from experience). Windows isn't targeted because it's so dominant; it's because it's so -easy- due to marketing driven engineering. MS could easily bundle all of that into an 'Internet expansion' and charge $$$ for it....and let those of us who prefer to configure their own systems alone. I spend a good deal of time -closing- those 'back doors', because I am a bit better placed to know what my security needs are (anyone who believes in the 'one size fits all' hypothesis deserves exactly what they get, IMHO), and so long as I am not violating their IP rights by reverse engineering or distributing my copy of their product, they have absolutely no business whatsoever trespassing into my home and invading my privacy. And certainly no business telling me what =my= needs and requirements are. As for Sony....they need to be slammed with every law applicable, including the DMCA and Patriot Act clauses involving malicious infection of computers and networks. As well as have to pay for all the repairs people are doing when they get caught with this piece of offal and wreck their system trying to deal with it....

"Firefox is more secure than IE right? NOPE. A critical flaw was found in the code just this past summer." Are you sure????, well is only your problem and only your computer will be hacked if you continue using IE. Firefox can have bugs but is a huge difference with IE. You can download and anyone can download Firefox source code, what does it mean?, it mean that anyone is able to analyze the code, find bugs and find solutions. You can find bugs and the correction will be made before any hacker can use the bug. On the other side, you can't download IE code, you don't know what IE is doing, maybe is good because if you know what IE is doing you will not be able to sleep! The bugs or not bugs are found and used by hackers before are discovered, once discovered the first thing that Microsoft does is to negate that is a security risk, then after several monthes and several thousands of damaged computers Microsoft decide to release a patch correcting the bug and of course, the patch will create more new bugs. The same with Linux, Linux is open source, if you don't like the security or find a risk to security with Linux you can always create and compile your version of your secure Kernel. You cannot do the same with Windows, only remains to you to believe that XP SP54 is secure before is released SP55.

" Actually, there's a better solution.

Take MS into court yet again and force the decoupling of IE and Outlook and the scripting host from the shell, as =NONE= of that is part of an operating system. That removes the most used vectors (as MS Java has already been whacked firmly). Require an -Non- active desktop as an option, which will close the most common Active X exploits. Passing laws won't stop the script kiddies; what will is decoupling the main infection vectors (and having done just that with 98lite, and watching several nasty virii just sit and suck their widdle toes because the files they needed to damage things simply were not on my system of that time, I can speak from experience). Windows isn't targeted because it's so dominant; it's because it's so -easy- due to marketing driven engineering."

Exact!!!!!
I have no firewall, I have no active antivirus and almost use FireFox/Mozilla or the old Netscape 4.80.
I use modified Windows 95 or Windows 98, never XP!!!!
I don't use or have installed Outlook.
I don't use active desktop with Win98 (use as Win95 style)
I almost deleted all the activeX (*.ax) from the disk.

Result. I never have problem with hackers, virus, spies and don't care about them.
I can play a Sony CD and my computer will not be hacked.
And the Windows run very fast and never crash. I can push the reset key or turn off the power switch of the computer and it will start without entering "safe mode".
Windows can be secure and fast if you modify it!

Message edited on: 11/11/2005 23:09

If you want to see more relationship between Sony BMG and Microsoft you have the facts:

Sony protection is only for Windows XP and doesn't work with Mac or Linux.
You can argue that most of users use Windows, I agree but there are 10% or more that don't use Windows so why Sony has ignored those 10%?
The main source for piracy are the CDs from China and P2P, Sony decided to ignore them and only attack common legal users, so why ignore this 10%.
The copy protection scheme is something that RIAA has worked for a long time, they had time enough to release Windows, Mac and Linux versions.
The only explanation is that with Linux and Mac it cannot be done.
Now remain 90% of Windows users but the protection scheme doesn't work with Win98 or 95 too.
Users of Windows 95 are very few instead there are more users of Win98 than WinXP.
Why the Win95/98 users were ignored too? and there are not so few as 10% of Linux or Mac?
The answer again is, it cannot be done with Windows 95 or 98 users or in case to be possible cannot be done in the way as was done with XP.

• There is no way to hide files with Win95/98.
• Win95/98 has no CD drivers.

You can see that only with Windows XP Microsoft has created the means to Sony DRM or Microsoft DRM will be possible. And the last and definitive argument: Sony DMR CDs cannot be used with Apple's iPod but can be used with Microsoft's devices.

Message edited on: 11/11/2005 23:44

Trust Seno not sony ;)

Seno CD Explorer!

Kawecki you make some good points but you would be more effective if it weren't for your habit of jumping into every thread even remotely connected with a computer problem and going into your anti-Microsoft tirades. Linux is a fine OS but unfortunately too many of its adherents exhibit such a sense of contempt for anyone who hasn't drunk the KoolAid that their enthusiasm smacks more of religious zealotry than reason at times. Relax. If Linux is indeed so superior then it will triumph in the end. If not, well, you can have the satisfaction of being borne up in the rapture while the rest of us are lost in the Windows tribulation.

" If Linux is indeed so superior then it will triumph in the end." Not necessarly true. Mac/Motorola had much better hardware/software than PC/Intel for many long years, but Mac users were only a few percent. People use to decide by other factors and not for the technical characteristics. I am a Windows user and not Linux. I have Linux installed in a disk partition and use it very little and for learning about. I managed to make Windows fast, stable and secure so I continue to be a Windows user. About Mac I don't know anything!

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1885334,00.asp?kc=ewnws111105dtx1k0000599 http://www.eweek.com/category2/0,1874,1258734,00.asp?kc=ewnws111105dtx1k0000599 This may help some regarding this issue as well. If this is not allowable here on this board, please feel free to delete it. Thanks

"Microsoft hasn't decided yet whether it will identify Sony's DRM software as malicious code, a spokesperson said." A big problem, what to do? Microsoft has DRM included in his Media Player 9!

Unix/Linux was designed to run in a networked/multiuser environment from the beginning, Windows wasn't. Microsoft has been too slow in adapting. As an applications programmer, I love the fact that the ease with which you can integrate applications and build powerful solutions with scripting and other technologies but clearly security in a hostile environment wasn't high on the design specs. At the same time, one can't simply dismiss the market share factor. The original internet worm ran on Unix because that was a fat target. Hitting Burroughs mini-computers wouldn't have been nearly as much fun. Today, where else can you create 20,000 zombies except Windows--unless you hack Google's server farm where everything is under one security policy and a customized kernel at that--not an easy task. All DRM sucks but it's the way things are going to go. No company wants people making perfect digital copies of their products and giving them away. The only alternative I see is a tax on internet useage which would be unfair to those who don't copy material. Of course some would say school taxes are unfair to those who don't have children. You can bet the artists would probably never see their fair share of the money though.

And is going to be worst. The problem is that they are attacking legal users, for they you are the criminal and must protect themselves from you making copies. If you look the activation code scheme has only caused troubles and headaches to people that had legally adquired the product, for whom uses the pirate versions, beside that is cheap or for free, there are no problems and no headaches just because the pirate version comes without activation code. The activation code almost has killed Poser5, only Poser5 start to work when the malign code was removed. Now Sony stopped the DRM in the CDs, but soon other recording company or Sony will come back with another try and another scheme, soon you Windows will monitor/control online what you are doing with the computer. They are fighting a lost war, any new attempt will turn against them, meantime your life will be worst and worst. Sony BMG believed that had an infalible protection scheme against piracy and what had in return?, a lot of people boycoting Sony and much more people that were pissed off and turned the side. They are making with any new attempt people that never buyed pirate CDs or downloaded will begin to do it, it is becoming not a wrong thing to be done, is becoming the correct thing to be done.!!! If they don't change their actitude soon will be out of the market, you have mentioned Burroughs, I have worked in Burroughs and Burroughs was killed by the PC. Burroughs has the first microcomputer chip, but has no vision about their potential and only used it in their products, some years later the cost of its chip was $50 and you could purchase an OEM chip for $5, Burroughs microcomputer chip died! IBM was expert enough to see the potential market of the old Apple and created the PC. IBM is still in the market, Burroughs (Unyses) has little importance.

You know, the "I like Sony products" defense really touches a nerve with me. Many years ago, I worked for a company that caught an employee skimming nearly $10,000. I was in the band of four managers who had to decide what to do. In the conversation, our boss revealed that the guy was having an affair with another employee, and that he knew about the guy's routinely demanding sexual favors from his female contractors. We wanted to fire and prosecute him. The boss vetoed us. The bottom line: "He brings in a lot of profit. We just need to see he doesn't do it again." The stealing, not the porking. The saddest, sickest thing about our culture is that we seem to have no moral or ethical principle that matters more than our own personal convenience. Sony makes good products, so who cares if they rip off their customers? Just don't buy the dangerous products. Right-o. And buy your car from the local child molester, as long as he stays away from your kid. I bought a Sony Digital Recorder about a month before this story broke. I'm going to check my computer to see if the recorder's interface tools messed it up. I can't afford to throw the thing away, but if I had learned about this before buying it, I'd have an Olympus, in spite of the huge difference in quality and features. Sony may make great TVs and stereos, but I'll be buying another brand for quite some time. Folks, learn to pay for your principles. Oh, and have some. M

I am not going to defend Sony, but there are many things that cannot understand.
For me was a big surprise that Sony has done this, this actitude is not compatible with the normal behaviour of Japanese companies, maybe can be explained by:

1. Sony is a huge multinational company with many divisions dealing with different products.
2. Sony adquired Columbia Pictures, I don't know how much remains today of Columbia Pictures and how much control they still have.
3. I don't know how much autonomy and power has each branch of the Sony organization.
4. If you go to a mall and one of his employees rob you, who commit the criminal act is the employee, the mall doesn't commit the crime even is responsable for the act of having bad employees and you probably never will go to buy something in this mall.
   In this case Sony BMG is the employee of Sony corporation.
5. I don't know how many control Sony corporation has over Sony BMG.
   I don't know if the control is direct or is due the majority of stocks, in this case the other stock holders have some power of decision.
6. I have seen illegal actitude toward workers in Wolkswagen do Brasil which were solved when the sindicate entered in direct contact with Wolkswagen headquarters in Germany.
   A friend of mine had the garanty of a printer recused by HP do Brasil, he solved the problem by a phone call to the headquarters of HP in the US that sent the order to HP do Brasil to accept the garanty.

I don't know how it is, probably Sony's televisions, cameras, PS2, PS3 has nothing with Sony BMG.
One thing you can be sure, don't buy more from Sony BMG!

Message edited on: 11/12/2005 10:38

"3) I don't know how much autonomy and power has each branch of the Sony organization." Huge, see my post above. They are to all intents and purposes separate companies. This is even more true of those based outside of Japan ('cos the top-level parts of Sony common to all divisions conducts business in Japan, in Japanese obviously). Sony & M$ have had joint (Internet) development deals for last 6 years. M$'s anti-spyware product already flags as "OK", and by default does not remove, spyware from vendors who advertise with M$ - this includes a couple of the hardest to remove and the one which opens the "backdoor" to other spyware. (More sypware coming in makes M$'s anti-spyware tool look more valuable to "average Joe"?) Media, e.g. LA Times, CNN, Associated Press have corporate relationships with Sony.

"Folks, learn to pay for your principles." Any principle other than profit seems counterintuitive to the corporate organism and so you have Enron. Any principle other than saving a buck seems counterintuitive to the consumer organism and so you have WalMart. Exceptions are always refreshing but seem to be increasingly rare.

Very well said, Imckenzie. Very well said. Rance