I've got Poser 5, and I must say that I'm a little unsatisfied with the Don/Judy characters. I like the flexibility the Face Room affords, but there are too many sticking points with how the faces work in Poser 5 (one pet peeve of mine is the mouths; I can't figure out how to part the lips and keep the teeth clenched in a realistic fashion). Victoria 3/Michael 3 Seem much more versatile, and from the looks of it, the morphs are far more realistic, but I'm wondering how the faces in Poser 6 stack up against them. Have the aforementioned quirks been hammered out, or do Poser 6 faces still act funny? I'm just wondering what I'd rather invest in.

M3 and V3 are free, so there's no cost in getting them. They're also much better supported than Don and Judy. To get them to work well though, you'll need to get the face and body morph packages at Daz too. Each package is about $30. A better bet, if you belong to Daz's Platinum Club, is to get David and Stephanie Petite. The have the very basic face morphs built into them, and they're only $1.99 to PC members. You'll probably want to get Daz's morphs for them too, eventually, but they're a good way to see how Daz does the morphs. BTW, Daz's figures, becuase they're so much better supported, have a lot more flexability than Don or Judy. Don and Judy never really caught on, and there's very little out there compared to any of the Daz figures. On a side note: Daz figures all have a "part lips" morph, that keeps the teeth clinched while parting the lips. There's a TON of available face morphs, body morphs, pose files, textures, and clothing for Daz figures compared to Don and Judy. Daz Millenium 3 Class figures: Michael 3 (free, but you have to get the morphs for $30 to really use him) Victoria 3 (free, but you have to get the morphs for $30 to really use her) David (has some face morphs, including the "part lips" included) - $1.99 in Platinum Club, $28 regular price, morph pack an extra $30 Stephanie Petite - same as David Hiro - Anime type figure ($30, but comes with all morphs) Aiko - Anime type figure (free, but you have to get the morphs - $30) and, a Daz figure done by me: Vittorio - Male figure, comes with the same basic morphs as David, 3 muscular morphs, a to-V3 morph, and some free morphs and clothing available at another site (about 40 different items at last count). He also can take all of David's and V3's injection poses from the morph packs listed above) He's $7.99. The best bang for the buck for a complete figure is Vittorio, but he's also the least supported in the way of available clothing. M3 and V3 have the most clothing available. In my opinion, David is the best of the male figures from Daz. His morphs are better, his base figure is better. For female figures it's a toss up between V3 and SP3. Each has their own virtues and flaws. There is a new version of M3 (done by me) that will be available, but I'm not sure when. He's all done, but I'm negotiating with the store I offered him to (grin). He uses the M3 base figure, but comes with a number of morphs, can take David and V3 injections, and can still wear all of M3's clothing. Hope this helps... Jim

I'm actually just wondering how Daz's figures stack up against the Poser 6 figures ( James and Jessi, I think). I've got the V3 and M3 base characters, and I know they blow Donand Judy out of the water. I'm just thinking that, depending on how the Poser 6 figures compare to V3/M3, would I rather spend my money on the morph/texture packages for the Daz characters or take that cash and go buy the upgrade to Poser 6 and get James/Jessi included?

Tough one! I think P6 is a VAST improvement over P5, and James and Jessie are better than Don and Judy. However, they still don't stack up to the Daz figures in the way of options. I haven't seen full body morphs for either James or Jessie. rDNA has face morph packs for both of them at about $10.00 (not a bad deal). There's a little support for James and Jessie, and some people love them, but if you just do a search in freestuff and the store, you'll see how little there is for them compared to the Daz figures. James and Jessie can be used in the face room, while the Daz figures can't. That's a plus for them. But the base figures and morphs still don't compare to David, SP3 or Vittorio. It's a tough call on where to spend your money if the choice is Daz figures or P6. For figure variation and options, definitly the Daz figures. For improved software with a more stable platform and program control, P6. I'm going to IM you with some information in a few minutes with some more information.

You're talking about new M3 :P Could you please make his body as good as or better than David? pretty please :P He has the most cloth already (eventhough it's not enough :() I really don't like how his shoulder and armpit's joint looks at all :P Thank you so much in advance:P

Interesting. A new M3? Don't forget Koji and Miki! They are pretty impressive figures, they are very realisticlly modelled, imho. Koji has climbed very quickly into my Top 3 Male Figures list. :D bB

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com/source/viewtopic.php?t=3791&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

And since you already have P5 try NeJa she is free at PlanIt3D

NeJa is a NEA-head/Judy-body hybrid

Not Face room compatible but many head morphs to play!

:^)

Personally, for a male figure I would invest in ApolloMaximus :)

Good point, PapaBlue! ApMax is a great figure, and comes with a number of morphs, it's texture, and poses. He also comes with a body suit, and I know I've done a number of freebies for him. Isn't the sale still on at rDNA? ApMax is still going for a little less than $50, and he comes with all that stuff.

I'm in favour of James & Jessi. I still think James is the best looking poser male around. The advantages of using J&J over M3&V3 are quite a lot as far as I'm concerned. 1. M3&V3 are resource hogs. J&J come with a low res and high res version making it easy to create foreground and background figures in one scene. Do the same with M3&V3 and expect slowness and crashes. 2. J&J come with a complete library of ready to use stuff. A good selection of clothes & shoes, hair, expressions, lot's of poses. M3&V3 need a lot of investment. 3. J&J just render great out of the box, M3&V3 don't, imo. The need a lot of tweaking and postwork to look good. 4. Personally I never liked M3&V3, I'm glad J&J are around now so I don't have to use M3&V3 anymore. I haven't used them for over 6 months now, while using J&J frequently. 5. J&J pose much more natural then M3&V3 do. 6. J&J belnd in with the scene, while M3&V3 often look rendered seperate from the scene, even if they have been rendered in the scene itself. The picture is for my latests comic, using James as main figure. It just takes to much time to get M3 in such extreme poses and blend in well with the rest of the scene.

pdxjims - i think you're too focussed on the guys ;). jessi's body morphs have been available from rdna since april of this year. Ultimate Body Morphs For Jessi P6 the plus side to the support issue: Jessi, James, and Apollo Maximus are all supported by Philc's Wardrobe Wizard, so you could download the free m3 and v3 and convert their clothing. right now, Vittorio isn't, but that might change in the future. i'd also say, if you're going to go with the unimesh crew, aiko wins my vote for the females. she (and laura) have (by far) the best shoulders, the second most realistic proportions (a close second to steph petite, who just isn't actually built petite imho - more like a shorter, starved victoria), and a lot of people have done interesting things with her realistic head morph. all the unimesh crew and apollo have capsces' morph sets. apollo's is on sale with him, so the combo of him and cole (capcses morphs) is only about $58. miki and koji are also pretty nice - miki a bit more so than koji. while miki's whole body is a realistic asian female (again, imho), koji's body is basically the same as james'. i hope e-frontier doesn't take their comparative populalrity as "guys just don't sell," cause i would have bought koji in a heartbeat if they had actually made him more than a really gorgeous new face for james (with accessories). james' body is ok, don't get me wrong, but i really was hoping more for a true counterpart to miki. miki and koji's expressions are spectacular, so if you're looking for portrait material, they're probably a good investment.

OK. I admit it. I may be a little focused on the guys... ...you know... well, you think I might ...uh... Nah... ;) You're right about everything cobaltdream.

Yanno, I was playing with Apollo Maximus on a friends machine, mainly because I thought about buying him (And she already had him). I'm glad I did. He's great. No really, he is. But he's not for me. I like hard, slim faces on males and AM just doesn't do it for me. At all. I still think he is a fat-faced figure. Don't like the face at all. Period. Sorry, I prefer M3's or David's face to AM. AM is just "Not my type"

To me the ultimate male figure remains Mike2*(pictured here)* has has free options to enlarge his hands to get rid of that ***"Dainty hand"*** look that plagues all poser males IMHO. and his physique also is far Superior to M3 as M3 shoulders Look like pulled taffy and his so called muscle morphs are a cruel joke at best ;-) As for Apollo max I Agree the base figure has a puffy smooth faced appearance so i can only reccomend him along with the "morpheus maximus" package also sold over at RDNA and Apollo,like Mike2, Does **NOT** use the ponderous **INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA** BULLSH*T of the DAZ unimess clones that require the presence of 800+support files to have a fully functional figure.

Wolf, she had that Morpheus thing on her AM figure and after a full day of messing with his face... I was just sick of it. I didn't get a single - and I really mean not even ONE - face morph that I liked out of him. Fatface can go hang, IMO. I like his body much much better than that of the milfigures but I loathe that face with or without morphs so I will never buy him either. I'm sorry if that offends the AM lovers out there, but he's simply not my type. Not something I want to look at. And Wolf... I often use M2 for stuff. He's much lighter than M3 when it comes to rendering, and I like his shoulders better too. Nice render above :)

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/product.php?productid=13695&cat=1325&page=2

I disagree that AM is limited in the face department. Check out the LQ morphs at CP. This package is for AM without Morpheus Maximus although I highly suggest those morphs as well. As much as I like M2, AM bends much better.

And Capcses morphs for Ap Max really go a long way in the face department. Her Cole for Apollo Maximus is amazing.

Yeah PapaBlueMarlin.... Hi! FatFACE! I'm not saying he's limited - I'm saying he's fat :P

Silke... I'm working on a face to show you. I'd have it done, but my beloved other half has started Christmas decorating. My office is in the living room, and right now my desk is piled with ornaments and my chair is covered in garland. The problem with Ap Max's face is that his chin/jowl area is fuller than the Daz figures. And his eyes are smaller. I'm taking David's head and working the morphs so Ap Max's has less jaw and bigger eyes.

LOL... his face is certainly better than the girly face M3 has.

i understand both of your statements about apollo. his morphs are good, but other than the all out monster mash ones, they all look too smooth and puffy for me. no offense meant, but all those lq morphs look basically the same to me (pretty much like most face sets for the daz crew). cole is better, but capsces (whose morph sets i adore) tends toward rounded, toony morphs, not chiseled, defined ones. apollo is quality, no doubt, and i'm certainly not going to get into the "he's not worth the full price" schtick so many seem to want to get into, but he's got less detail in his face, joints and body overall than m2. even wolf's arnold for apollo has extreme but not chiselled cheekbones, giving lie to the mesh underneath. so far, no add-on has given him much detail (except for monster mash), and i don't think anything can be done for his knees, wrists and elbows except entirely resculpting them (the join of thigh to knee, for instance, is just really off if you see a comparison). for me, it's not very useful to bend better if the joints still don't look realistic. that's just my opinion. i'm very happy that other people feel differently about him. vive la difference. people are doing amazing stuff with him. if you want to see the range he's capable of, check out the apollo maximus gallery at runtime dna. also, see lobo75's guapo both here and at poser pro's- very realistic (though still rather smooth faced). as for the unimesh support file issue, yeah, i guess it's realy kind of a pain. i'd certainly rather daz have cut back on some of their "i can do the same thing in less than a minute" poses like giving figures a catsuit mat. but morphs? you can just inject them all, save the character, and then delete the poses for injecting them. right now, i'm personally more interested in what nerd3d has been saying about the injections that don't need annoying empty channels and load quicker. do i think users should have gotten a choice? yeah. just like people could buy a high-res tera yuki that looked the same as the lo-res version with smoothing on (she was released as p6 only). i don't think daz should have just made the decision, "oh, we know you'll want to conserve poser memory in every render, so let's clutter your pose folder (which, if memory serves, does have a file limit), and make sure they're all first by adding leading !s." especially the newer ones, which have fewer morphs in their morph packs. as for hands - wolf, is that freebie for m2's hands anywhere on the web still? i haven't seen it or any replacement and his hands are way too small. i've looked for it and haven't been able to find it (even though spubba does still have freebies up). i'd be interested in using it or any other freebie that scales m2 (and v2's and s1's) hands. a lot of a figure's size can be determined by the relative size of body parts to head and hands. a lot of the "unimess" crew however, do have built in hand scaling in their bases.

Actually my M2 figure is based on the free spubba troll CR2 unfortunately it is no longer in poser freestuff where I found it. I tend to agree about apollo's "Smooth" look which is why i never render him Undressed But i use M2 for my more ethnic/athletic figures and i wanted a very different figure for my caucasion males so his face with morpheus max and cole is different enough for me. and I have so much aversion to the DAZ injection system that i supported apollo becuase he does NOT requires all that Additional bloatware but as you say Choice is nice ;-)

Silke, I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way. I do have Apollo and Cole morph. There are so many great things about Apollo, (easy to use, light on the system, manly face morphs, best posing ablity of all the male figures) but his default look holds him back, imho. He was designed to have weight. Unimesh Males start skinny and then you add bulk (some do this better than others like Hiro and David, and not M3), but Apollo works in reverse. He starts with mass and you have to sculpt him down. It hard to slim him down. It's much easier to bulk him up. I may have to take a stab at making a custom morph that gives him more of a "bone structure," like one would see in a male model, or a bishie. I haven't tried reshaping AM yet, so I don't know what can and can't be done with his polygons. bB

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2326382

cobaltdream do you have a link about Nerd's inj system?I haven't heard this before... As for Hands it is easy to make them any size you want using propagatingScale this is what I've made with Domus hands & feet as you see on the image The link is a thread about it

:^)

lemme see if i can find it. it's not his new system, it's what's built into p6 and i think p5. he's just one of those people who's on the forefront of researching and figuring out what the software can do. hmmmm, maybe "just" isn't the word i'm looking for. more like, "one of those people without whom i'd be throwing my computer out of the window in frustration or not bothering with the !?$! program at all." and thank you so much for the link!

If it the pmd thing there is a tutorial on his site but it is P6 only :^(
Unless it is something new!

yep, the pmd thing. i just found out about it. that makes sense that it's p6 only.

Apollo's default shape and face is an amalgam of all his morphs. It is the middle between fat and emaciated. This allows all the morphs to work so well together. It is a starting point. I did it to address the comments that too many figures are too specific and you can't get rid of their default look. Apollo doesn't have any more bulk morphs than skinny. Anything that makes a feature bigger will also make it smaller and vice versa. This is a pic with only his default morphs, not cole, morpheus, or anything else. Regarding knees, elbows, etc. People have to choose between cut joints that spin into jagged pinwheels or smoother joints than bend smoother. Just the way it works. When you rotate cuts and creases you get arched cuts and creases. Polygons skin doesn't shift or smooth over bones. I wish threads wouldn't always end with "Why I don't like Apollo". Most customer don't read the forums but the merchants do. I wish I could express the impact it has. But if that is the way it is so be it. I believe people are honest in their feelings. He's as good as I could make him. It is hard enough to make a "non-Daz" figure catch on. Merchants don't seem interested and his fans are too few. Sadly I must admit I Apollo will be my one and only independant human figure. In fairness, Apollo did offer more than any other one figure ever made. He remains the most versatile/flexible figure out of the box, both child to adult. Best UV mapped and most innovative addressing desires of so many posts over the years. Sadly it isn't enough. Thing I wasn't prepared for is that he actually seems to offend the very people I made him for. Or I do. Whatever. But that is just how business works sometimes. Just supply and demand and all that stuff. lol Since the mil people are perfered, there really isn't need for others. In the end I am sure Apollo's features will appear on them at some point by either maker or broker anyway. I already know any copyright problem would be shot down and snuffed instantly in the forums and I'd be left to handle it alone. At least it can be said he was good enough to make daz lower their prices and basically giving away their male line to snuff him. Good strategy. Didn't see that coming. Either way I'll still happily support him. hehe. They warez people will be glad for that. :)

For Apollo I believe it is far too soon to say something like that!

It takes time people "digest" something new and apollo has offered many new thing.

The fact that many people already have him on their Runtime makes me sure that when they will be bored by mil 3 people they will play with him! And even if they don't have any add ons they will have enough to make many thing since he comes with a suit and many others...

I had Natalia for a long time but started using her only after I couldn't see my V2 anymore! And since none made free stuff for her,I started doing!

Something else is that with all those feedback you have from people (good or bad) you already know what to improve on Apollo 2!!!

:^)

Anton, I would hate to see you give up on something you really enjoy because of comments in the forums. For every vocal critic, there are ten silent admirers :)

:) Thanks Jeremy. I wouldn't never give up because of forums. People are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how I or anyone else may feel about them.

It is just basic economics. There isn't enough interest, for whatever reasons, to warrant the time and resources to do another similar figure.

I haven't given up. I will still support Apollo and other venues. I just won't be doing Venus.

Message edited on: 11/27/2005 12:51

oh, anton. many threads are "why i think apollo is the best new thing since ." i was just looking up something on displacement (i think that was it - i've been trying to find a few old threads for info), and came across a "best product of 2005" thread in which apollo's place was being debated. considering how many utilities (and even how many figures) came out this year, that's pretty big in my opinion. i, personally, have never found apollo offensive. i've even tried to mention several times that now is the time to get him and his add-ons. i also have tried to suggest that people form their own opinions by seeking out images of him. i think your reaction to criticisms has at times been a bit more emotional than i would expect, seeing how other merchants of your caliber and level react to criticisms and knowing how popular you and your work is, but never offensive. you get so much praise and actual adulation within the community, i never would have expected you to say how the community is so much worse for just for having some negative things to say about your work. not everyone is going to like him. just like every other product out there will be some who don't chose him and say why. since apollo has come out, v3 standard has had at least as many criticisms. m3 was never well received, to judge by criticisms in the forums. that isn't to say that most don't use him, or that he isn't the defacto standard. if daz stopped making humans, even males, due to complaints, they'd have stopped at m2. i never thought you didn't have a reason for execute his joints the way you did. they're just not to my taste. lots of people like them. heck, i think wyrmmaster's gi-normous floatation devices on the fronts females are just plain silly (not to mention really boring after a while), and look at his popularity. me, i prefer posermatic's realism to wyrmmaster's fantasy, but that's just me. there's more than room enough for many merchants of different styles. i don't think i've ever gone out of my way suggest people look into m3 more when i say i think david has better muscularity and joints. seriously, i've had more good things to say about apollo than any other product i didn't want to buy. i believe i've even said- multiple times- how revolutionary his joints are just based on other people's renders and statements. conversely, i've seen several people dismiss sixus1 products of various ilks, and i've seen them do nothing but increase their product line. if you're basing this on pure numbers (money in the bank), then i'm not privy and i can't say about "worth it." i can say a female will sell a hell of a lot better than a male. it's true, the market on females is kinda glutted right now. we have (including toons but not including v3 - who in my opinion isn't free) at least 12 free females. i will say this - i didn't think that daz was deliberately trying to kill apollo. no sarcasm intended- maybe i'm just a bit naive about this. i certainly have seen them go out of their way to kill competition before. but i really thought they were basing their model on sixus1 (and somewhat in response to them)- make more money on add-ons because people do have the character. i know that the big problem with daz is how many sales they have. i've never paid full price for a daz original. and now they seem to be giving away products that have passed their popularity peak. after stephanie petite (who was a disappointment), i swore i wouldn't invest any more in what were basically recycled characters, but each time, the prices were lower and the bundles were bigger. and the figures just enough better to buy. all of this is to say- i recognize making another female would have some risk involved. and with daz as the standard, it might be hard to set the kind of price you feel would be worth it. but that said... lots of people are dissatisfied with v3. i can't say anything about what "most" people want to be better about her (except maybe a larger chest and real genitalia ;D). i can say, people have been anticipating venus for a while. to judge from "works in progress", you might have even more competition at release time than you do now, but they also have you as competition. and you've got one of the best reputations in the community. some people pursue realism with v3, but many don't. more people render unclothed females than unclothed males, so as long as she had a lot of textures, i'm sure she'd be fine. most people like their females air-brushed and smooth- much fewer like rugged women than rugged men. give her multiple high-heel morphs to go with that chest and hip thing i mentioned, and you'll be a millionaire by within a year (kidding, kidding). seriously though, there's a lot of niche's you could fill if you wanted. but please, don't do it if every time someone says, "i don't like venus and here's why," it wounds you deeply and personally. i can say, without a doubt, some people won't like her. some people will have problems with her. some people will want her to be something she isn't. but i bet many more won't.

Message edited on: 11/27/2005 15:41

"It is just basic economics. There isn't enough interest, for whatever reasons, to warrant the time and resources to do another similar figure." I'm very suprised by this statement.... I thought there was a lot of interest in Apollo. To me it seemed like many people jumped on the bandwagon and bought him.

A lot have people have bought him. But I think with so many conversion type things out there, new content is taking a hit. I'm still watching things. It's hard to explain, but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. There is interest, of course, but figures need bery broad merchaant interest to have a healthy and long life. I'm just not sure Apollo has enough long term merchnat support to justify Venus. You really need LOTS of deifferent merchants involved. Therein lies the delema. I think they got scared off. Or are just commited to other figures. Like I said, I am happy to support Apollo, but I can't ever fill the lists of what people want myself. If I only had more arms. lol cobaltdream, I hear ya and I agree. It isn't the individual posts I look at but rather the trend. I suppose it is like looking out the window to check the weather, but hey you have to go by something. If Apollo and his merchantbase is meant to grow and thrive it will. If not it won't and the world goes on. Just polygons afterall. But I am DNA are very commited to APollo. He'll be well taken care of. It just might take longer than with other figures. :)

I and RDNA..not I am DNA. BTW: They are awesome. As have been many people abroad. You just can't ever have enough, not with all the figures running around these days.

I didn't say Apollo wasn't a good figure. He IS. A friend of mine has him and she won't use anything else. She loves the way he looks. He's just not my type lol. At all. I can't help that, I can't get over that either. I sat on her computer for hours and hours while she was trying to convince me that I really like him. It just didn't happen. The more I rendered the more I was put off by his face. I think the rest of him is great, I just don't like his face. And since that's the prominent feature (I don't seem to render headless people for some odd reason!) I won't go there. She has those morphs (Morpheus at least, dunno which others there are) and I still never got anything out of his face that I liked. (she loved the renders lol) He's just too jowly for my taste. If you like to render butch - I'd highly recommend him. If you like to render skinny elves... he might not be so perfect.

Forgot to add: I think it takes time to get used to Apollo and the way he works. When I got the chance to sit down and fiddle my first question was 'Uh... how does all this work?' and I got a lesson in 'Twiddle this and twiddle that' sorta. Like I said, I don't have him. I've only played around on a friends computer. That's not enough time to really judge the character over and above of what I like. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone not to get him. He's not "Offensive" in the least. He's very well made and has many tricks up his sleeve. I echo Anton tho that I don't see much Apollo stuff around and for him to really take off, he needs stuff made for him. But then I don't really take much notice of what there is out there for him, so what do I know. :) But Anton - I hope I didn't give you the impression that I find Apollo offensive. That's just not the case. In many ways he's a lot better put together than the Daz figures are.

Okay let's run down the list. :) Just look from my side a moment. Just for a sec. He is too smooth. He isn't defined enough to be muscled He is to muscled to be skinny He doesn't have enough morphs He is too expensive His face is ugly He doesn't have enough stuff His joints aren't cut enough He has no back muscles He is too expensive He Doesn't have enough polygons His penis is too small Any posts with "I like Apollo but...." Now imagine you are a noob or merchant trying to decide. Do a search for Apollo here if you have a free hour and read. just read. Search for APollo at poserPros or anywhere aside from DNA and ConetentParadise. There is a lot of good yes, but wowsers, it is a hard racket. It's formidable. lol. I just poking fun but imaging it from the maker's side, competing with giveaway David and a the fact that 80% of eveyone's store is dependant on Mil Sales staying dominant. grin See what I mean. Come'on. You have to admit, people have held Apollo to standards they don't even hold to any other figure available. I am sorry. I know I made him and am biased but he is a work of cr2 art. Like buttah. I am a single guy doing this full time. Have some mercy. lol

His penis is too small? For... what? No wait don't answer that!! I'm female and I can tell you that a man's best side is... his backside. Just... turn round. There. Much nicer view! Penis too small... tsk... who cares what size it is. It's what you can do with it that counts! I know what you mean tho Anton :) If we started on M3, first on my list would be: You call that rubbery glob at the top of his arms SHOULDERS? His arms go up WAY too high on the body (on V3 too) Those are the two that spring to mind right away. I'm forever tweaking shoulders on M3. There's some really weird stuff going on under his chin, too.

It is not new that people here yell only the bad things and never admit the good!!!

I would never compare Apollo with any DAZ thing! He is an inependant figure far from anything till we've seen till now!It is obvious find him strange at first!

For me, only his UVS is a lesson for figure creation! PERFECT!!!

I don't beleive any other non DAZ figure eeeever took so much attention!!!, except the scare bears maybee:^)

This is a fact and I'm sure it will be seen on the near future. It is very nice that you support him so much and that't what a creator should do!

Beeing some years in this forum I've seen many good figures die without support not even from their creators.

Also it is a pity that people no longer create free stuff except to advertise their stores.This is something that keeps alternative figures behind too.
No good free textures any more! V2 was the last figure having great free textures, now everyones sells his cr*py texture on the store...

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/ophoto/index.php?photoid=899

*giggles* CHeck out this great and totally surreal image by Atomica.

quote: . . . but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. ah. that makes sense. which explains why sixus1 is still in business and why they did choose the route of giving away base figures. and that would mean WW and CC and Tailor might make things more difficult instead of less. i wish i could say, "making venus would be a sure bet." hmmmm. trying to think mercenary.... well, here's a good bet at least: sell a base that meets your standards (i'm sure that will meet most community standards), but looks a bit younger than v3 in default. even include some basic morphs, and make her "anatomically correct". low-ball her price (i'd say $30 to $40 is the community comfort limit, but what do i know). then sell 3 "real breast packs" as addons- breasts at different sizes and shapes, unclothed motion morphs, and breasts deformation morphs (pushing up out of corsets, pushing through fingers, etc.). then make a "real girl" hip morph pack for her that costs twice as much as each breast pack. and finally, do a "modern goddess" line: 1 runway model, 1 pinup girl, 1 fantasy art girl, 1 hip-hop video girl, etc., each with accompanying 2 to 3 piece clothing set and texture. if you can, have posermatic and blackhearted each do a character for her. i'm betting she'd sell like hotcakes (evil grin). now mind you, this isn't actually what i'm interested in. i'd prefer she gain weight as well as apollo, have great ethnicity morphs, and basically be as real as possible. but, as i've stated, my opinion and popular opinion often run counter to each other. and, um, no, i don't hold apollo to higher standards. if he had the definition and detail of any of the version 2 crew, i would have gotten him. period. and i'd say half of the complaints in your list basically come down to that- not enough detail, in bones or muscles, and no hard angles. penis too small???? yeah, as a woman, i'd have to say, there's no guy at regular temp and flacid that looks very, um, imposing or impressive. well, at least, i've never seen him. i'd say apollo's kinda large if that's his totally non-aroused, regular state. as for ugly, i don't believe i've seen that before. the last thing i'd say apollo is is ugly. again, i'd say since apollo has emerged there has been at least as much criticism of v3. too tall, too big, pin head, gumby arms, too fat, bubble butt, shapeless, too skinny, not real enough, can't do ethnic morphs, unnatural expressions, etc. m3, well, i've heard people say they use him but no real advocates for him. and his complaints seem to get reiterated less just because they're so obvious. tons of people have had good things to say about apollo, and loudly. pitklad- there are tons of free unimesh textures. mainly for v3, but they're out there. vali, a merchant has a few in freestuff. neomea has several, as does (or did) ecstasy (i found an archive of his stuff the other day but haven't been able to re-find it since). and that's just off the top of my head. not too many for the guys, admittedly.

ecstasy's textures are great but most of them are for V2 I believe I have them all but also don't have the link(I'll send it to you if I find it!)

There are many many free tetxures for V3 of course but not great free textures! Low quality free textures sure!
I feel that posette has more great free textures than V3!
The quality of the store here is droped and free stuff follow that fact!

Texture variation is a great thing for a figure and most people are bored even to change the base color!Pure James always look the same!

here's the following ecstasy textures i have for v3: lusyydia, antimony, blue geisha, vamps, red hatia, immigrant, innuendo, neon geisha, red geisha, sekusu and white wolf. somehow i'm missing his tattoo/rocker set. i dunno, i'm pretty content with the best freebie textures for v3. i'd say v2 had more high quality ones, but i don't know about p4. other than the body morpher set, i'd say most p4 textures are comparatively mid-level. other than the vicky buster, most don't even get close. yeah, i really wish there were more male textures overall. james could really use a hand.

Ectasy's textures are (were) over on As Shanim's site. Might want to look there for them. :)

Anton, I'm only trying to help to start with, just so that you know before I type more. If the "expense" or perception of expensive is an issue, you could easily cut the pack down to offer entry-level pricing. I think he's not getting around as much because of the price tag - regardless of the amount of content being offered in that bundle (which I was glad to purchase myself). Why not offer an Apollo Base with a small price and then pack the other things into add-ons to get to the overall price point that you want to achieve with the full package? I'm not dissecting everything in the package but let's say you did Apollo BASE at $20 or something and had the 50% off offering going, that would be perceived as low cost at a total of $10. I know it's a headache to cut it all up, but I think it's one of those perception is reality situations on the bottom line.

Since the topic seems to have turned to an apollo discussion, I would like to say that I think it is far far far too early to discuss if apollo is a success or a failure. He hasnt even been out for a year yet. It takes a while for people to be comfortable with "new"toys. I have had poser6 since it came out, but I still do most of my development in Poserpro, just because I am familiar with it. The same will be true for figures as well. If you want the figure to grow in popularity, that will happen by steady support and growth. I have supported him since he came out, because we all know this market needs a variety of quality figures with different looks. I am sure with apollo that the complaints of the figure only having one looks will easily fade away over time as people become more familiar with how to use the figure. So taking complaints like that to heart is silly. Apollo can provide quite a number of looks and if anyone complains, that is more a reflection on that particular artists skill in using the figure and not a reflection of the figure itself. This is the same for the Micheals as well...many people are content with using them as they are out of the can...but others take time to make something unique out of them. Apollo will grow the same way. I think one thing that people miss with apollo is the female counterpart. If there was a dedicated counterpart, it will go a long way to ensure that Apollo is not a "flash in the pan" figure who will fade away. This will also bolster his support. Its a geometrical growth. I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into figure creation. But I think what has to be looked at seriously now is what it will take to make this series grow, and while clothing support is good, an additional cast would definatly make the series more solid and they will build a solid place in the community. Plus....apollo has had alot of support from some pretty big names in the community, so to say it is not supported well is a bit of an insult. For some of the bigger names to take a risk with a new figure, shows that there is no lack of interest. (my 2) Rawn Rawn

Part of the problem Apollo might have with support, is that RNDA is a closed store, and sells by invitation only. So if someone like myself does a product add on for him, I cannot sell at his "home" wher my sales numbers would be higher, but have to sell at Rendo, or Poser Pros. My sales numbers are always 1/10th or so for a figure, if it isn't at the figures "home" store. I've considered getting apollo a number of times, for possible morph expansion developement, but his high cost cuts into the profits for any possible add on products. Subtract that from a support product not at the home store, and I'll most likely end up with a shelf warmer, that was not worth producing. Also of note, is the fact that female figure's sales are much higher then male figures. If the number is like twice, wouldn't that still justify Venus developement?

Oh.. forgot.. I can also use my sale's money for purchasing developemtn figures, but since I'm not a merchant at RNDA, obviosuly I cannot do that. I suspect many other merchants are in the same boat.

Attached Link: http://www.ramwolffsworld.com/3D_Directory/Apollo-BlondeGod_r.jpg

I upload an image, it's not posted for what ever reason so I will attempt to do this using the URL option. It was Apollo with no clothes but it's not like I had him doing anything other than walking! LOL I love Apollo but I love David and Hiro too. I don't care for M3, I like M2 just fine and the Freak comes in handy from time to time!! I would love to see Athena happen Anton! It is a known fact that the female's sell better than the male figures. So please don't dismiss the idea totally. Richard ;-)~

I don't know if Anton is still checking in on this thread but on the off chance he is, I'd like to say that I've been holding off on making any more Poser related purchases in anticipation of paying for your female figure and support items for it. I'd gladly pay $50 or so for a female figure that looks and poses as good as Apollo seems to. I have not bought Apollo because I hardly ever use male figures, and I already purchased M3 and David along with support items a couple of years ago for the few times I do. If I didn't own them, I certainly would have purchased Apollo instead - and may still if for some reason I have need of a realistic looking/posing male figure. A female figure along those lines would be great as I am dissatisfied with just about every female figure that's out right now in one way or another. I really hope you'll reconsider and publish a female figure on Apollo's level - I'm guaranteeing you one sale right now and continuing purchases of support products for her as well. Unzipped