Hi Natolii, Sorry you feel it's not good enough. If you have purchased any of the affected items, you will have received a refund. If you have purchased other items which aren't in violation, then you may continue to use them. Karen

And how do we find THAT one out Karen?

Gabriel, You're a talented dude. I've been watching you develop and get better and better for several years now. I've also been watching this same story repeat itself over and over for years now... Don't you get tired of this shit? How is it you haven't "gone postal" yet? Or should I say "recently"? ;) You're talking about altering the V3 model, but why not take your ability to the next logical order of magnitude and just come up with a whole new mesh? It'd seem that would give you even more control in the long run.

I use an hotmail account Karen, but I always recieve ebots about my fav artist who upload images, I used to get mails about products in my wishlist on sale, and I have never had any problems before to recieve messages from Renderosity. I also checked my spam, and there was no mail there either. I have renderosity in my secure list. When I recieve new messages I can see if there is any in the spam box too, but there has not been sent out an mail to me about this product. Maybe I have many items that are in copyright violations..there are products that I have bouht before that I haven't found in the Marketplace when I've searched to give credits. This is kind of scaring me...since I did not recive this one..maybe there are others too.

"Don't you get tired of this shit?" yeah. but what would you have me do? quit entirely? and believe me, i did go postal - just not in the forums. putting out a new mesh isnt exactly easy. in the pro 3D world you basically just have to model the character, perhaps rig it, and its ready for sale. here? modeling a new figure would be the easy part. after that it is months of creating JCMs, facial expressions and phonemes, basic morphs, etc. and creating a proper rig for it in poser - which is a nightmare. unfortunately (and some will disagree, but i dont want to get into this here), putting out a mainstream poser figure is best left to the studios like daz or zygote. an individual, or even a small team, cannot hope to compete - especially considering that V3 is free. by making V3 free daz pretty much killed any present and future competition in one stroke. if you release a free model, it had better be at least as good as V3 for people to bother making addons for it - the true lifeblood of a product line. if you make one for retail sale, then it had damned well better be significantly better than V3 or offer something she does not. so far i have not seen a figure that does this, sorry. not to mention that daz further has us by the balls by going after people who try to use similar joint parameters or UV mapping as V3. the real backbone of V3 is the hundreds of gigs of free and retail add-ons that people have produced over the years. by offering a new figure you basically are telling people 'set aside what you have, and buy all new items'. for something remarkable they may be willing to do this now and then - but surely not on a weekly basis and surely not for a product that isnt significantly better or remarkably different than V3. and, unfortunately, the only 'competing' models i see everyone making seem to have the same body style as V3, the same facial style, etc, worse joints and a dirtier mesh... and of course far less support in terms of textures and clothing. i would love to model something entirely different, but i am not willing to sign over the next year of my life to creating a CR2 and all the poserizing that needs to be done for her. not to mention that after witnessing some of the recent fiascos there are very few people i would trust to contract it out to. hopefully poser7 will have a much improved, industry standard rigging system, and with more dynamic cloth and a more natural rigging figure creation will be much more accessible to everyone. the current system of dozens of JCMs, CR2 hacks, etc are bullshit - the current poser rigging is unacceptable, it has been unchanged for nearly a decade now. the only reason it has survived so long is because of the near-heroic efforts of people like nerd, philc, anton, drax, etc who have discovered totally undocumented ways to text edit a CR2 to create workarounds to poser's shortcomings. CR2s get more and more bloated with these workarounds, however, and the end result is never as good as it would be if poser had a modern rigging system to begin with. currently poser has an acceptable renderer, a decent cloth room, support for advanced shaders, yet the thing that has remained unchanged in so many versions -- and is the most in need of revamping - is the rigging system. so please, when the 'what features would you like to see in poser7' thread pops up, dont say 'radiosity' or 'particle generation'. the way we are headed well have full physics, particle generation, radiosity, etc in Poser7 yet still an archaic POS 10 year old rigging system that just doesnt cut it. cheers, -gabriel

Can anyone provide a complete list of which products are on the "bad" list? I have one item in my purchase list that is a collaboration between U and Orion1167... Which brings me to another thought: you know, I feel really badly for the folks that he's partnered up with at various times. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that none of them knew what he was up to.

Quote - I think that if Acadia hadn't requested, late in this thread, that we all be quiet re umutov's alleged theft, this thread would have continued on in an informative way. I was liking the chat about altering original meshes, and hybridizing clothing. Acadia, you brought the thread back to what it started out to be.

You are incorrect. Go back to post 122 and you'll see that Blackhearted himself began to post the contents of private messages he received. That's when I stepped in and in post 123 suggested that this should have been kept private and not turned into a public scandal.

Message edited on: 01/28/2006 14:23

Excellent reply, really, and I hadn't looked at it that way. "...yet still an archaic POS 10 year old rigging system that just doesnt cut it. " Yeah, I agree with that. I've used the Setup Room to make my own modifications, but that's limited, because it's just f%^ked up the way it's programmed.

"...yet still an archaic POS 10 year old rigging system that just doesnt cut it." and so instead go to the other option which is a 13 year old archaic rigging system of greater complexity...

trav, blackhearted, jim burton - i look forward to the time when your work is available. the hybridizing is a perfect example of exactly why i'd like more merchants to fully support p5/p6. yeah, i can play in the material room to improve a ppp optimized product, but it won't be at all at the level it would be if done by a good merchant with a better skillset and a coherent vision for the piece. i enjoy learning, and i'm making my own forays into learning more about the material, cloth and hair rooms. i'm not just wishing for a point-n-click solution. i'm not an expert, and if most of the experts stay back with ppp technologies, i'm positive a lot of interesting and beneficial avenues of exploration will be missed. thank you all again for your information on hybridizing.

Well I just heard about this and WHOA I cant believe it... wait, actually, I can. People make me sick with their petty crap :insert pukey face from msn here: Ive dealt with theft on several occasions, but never infringements. Sad part tho is... either u quit or u put up with it, coz nothing is infallible. And quitting is sooo not an option. Hopefully we're all lucky enuff to catch things like this when they happen. Ill keep my eyes open better now for sure.

Acadia... as far as I, and it does seem many here, feel (and I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn, I do not mean to speak for anyone but myself but if you feel the same, please chime in) that thieves like Umatov can find a nice little warm corner of Hell to rot in, as far as I am concerned. He forfieted support from me and from many in the community I would surmise, when he decided to steal another's work.

I am overjoyed this thread happened not only to inform me of a criminal's actions and his identity but also for the informative discussion on technology, preventative measures in the future, and the future of hybrid clothing.

Sympathy is best spent on those of character, not thieves.

Message edited on: 01/28/2006 20:32

On the topic of hybrid outifts... Is it possible to make a piece "in the middle" of a set affected by the Dynamics and then go BACK to conforming. I am sorry if I am being unclear. As an example, could you have the upper "puffy" part of the shoulder of the dress be affected as Dynamic cloth only to return to Conforming? I ask this question in consideration of poets shirt and similar things with puffy sleeve but uniform cuffs.

and so instead go to the other option which is a 13 year old archaic rigging system of greater complexity... Actually, I've found it easier to go to a One year old rigging scheme known as LightWave 8.5, where there are neat little helpful things such as weight maps, and options which don't leave you guessing about what they mean. :)

RKane 1, to answer your question... Yes I believe it is possible to do that. I can exactly tell you how to do it yet. Not that it's a secret, it's just that I'm still working ont that very technique. So far, things look promising and I'll probably post some thing on it in the near future. mike

" Can anyone provide a complete list of which products are on the "bad" list? I have one item in my purchase list that is a collaboration between U and Orion1167..." " Frankly, I would want to know the products that have been proven to be infringements. I own a few of his (Umutov) earlier products from this store and I want to know if they are safe to use..." "If you have purchased any of the affected items, you will have received a refund. If you have purchased other items which aren't in violation, then you may continue to use them. Karen" i must interject here. the following products were removed for including material from my GND2 pack, as well as material from Daz: DownUnderGirls: Nell (both RO & PP versions) DownUnderGirls: Rui (both RO & PP versions) Mikazuki (RO) Aiko19 (PP original) now i spotted 3 infringements both here and at poserpros. i noticed other infringements as well, however i did not report them all because the first 6 pulled were very blatant ripoffs and i wanted this case resolved as quickly and smoothly as possible. the first 6 were clearcut cases of infringement, while others were more obscure - i did not want a defense mounted on the harder to spot ones and deliberately diverting attention from the blatant ones. this does not mean that the rest of his store is 'perfectly OK'. there are at least two more that i saw in there that are highly suspect of using my morph, and there were some products pulled from PP that highly resembled AS Shanim's material yet they had no chance to examine them before the store was yanked. now i dont want to make this into a huge issue which shakes customer confidence, so im willing to let the others go until i see him start to set up shop elsewhere. but that hardly entitles anyone to assure people that the rest of his store is 'safe'. before my copyright claims were filed he already had a claim by a pretty big merchant, and one of his products was pulled. then my claim removed 6 products across his 2 stores here and at poserpros. i saw at least 2 more i didnt report, yet. thats nearly half his store. youre going to tell me that with such a track record you are going to give him the benefit of the doubt on the rest of his items? cheers, -gabriel

Late Bookmark Sorry your going through all of this gabriel. Tom

Thanks, Trav. I would love to see some poofy sleeve shirts and such! smile Lemme know when ya crack it! smile

Gabe, if the items haven't been investigated and found in violation, and therefore refunded, then the purchasers have a right to continue using it. If you want to prevent them using it then you're going to have to file a copyright claim on that too. Karen

done.

the "MidnightFever - Lilly" V3 character was also a copyright violation, not of Blackhearted's work, but of yet another top merchant. This particular item was officially investigated and found to be in violation.

Acadia, you say you don't know Umut, but you're sure he feels horribly. I know him well enough to respectfully disagree with you. My guess based on past interactions with him would be that he's feeling angry and petulant, and that he considers himself the victim in this situation. And I really doubt that he's holding up a mirror when he's wondering who to blame. And yes, I absolutely think it should be made public knowledge when a merchant is proven to be stealing other people's work. As a customer, I don't want to buy from someone with multiple copyright violations, and as a merchant I certainly don't want to work with them or develop add-ons for what might end up being a stolen product.

I for one am glad to know what's going on. I have zero interest in buying from a merchant that I know willfully stole another's work--and from what I'm reading now, he's done it before? Had I known that, I wouldn't have bought anything from him here. And like I said earlier, I feel badly for his partners because his actions have hurt them as well. Hasn't he recently joined up with the Pretty 3d team? And I know he's worked with Orion1167 on at least one product. Their reputations have been tarnished now because of this guy.

Well as the one who, perhaps unfortunately, started this thread, I'm kind of glad, as I was going to spend money on some of his items. I know the money would have been refunded if it was one of the tainted items but it would have still been a hassle. In addition it allows other merchanst to look as well. I hope none find any more problems, but... mike

I for one am glad to know what's going on. I have zero interest in buying from a merchant that I know willfully stole another's work--and from what I'm reading now, he's done it before? Had I known that, I wouldn't have bought anything from him here.

Exactly.

Given the number of infringements discovered, it really makes you wonder about all his products. I remember when he was a newbie, desperate to become a merchant. I was amazed at how much and how quickly he improved (and, yes, bought a couple of his products). Guess he took a few shortcuts. :-P

And I, too, appreciate the way this was handled. No public announcments until it's proven, infringer banned, and refunds given. That's the way it should be done.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2560095

Burn witch! Burn!

g

Before we burn him at the stake, we must ask ourselves: Is hanging truly 'too good fer 'em?' I mean, burning takes a lot of effort and fire control. A rope you can reuse again and again. Just trying to be environmentally conscious here.smile

I ain't burning anyone at the stake. Have you seen the price of fuel lately? There's little kids freezing in Tblisi...

"if you make one for retail sale, then it had damned well better be significantly better than V3 or offer something she does not." Mimic ready anus would be a good selling point

i just spit coffee out of my nose do you know how much that hurts?

gabe, you weren't alone. I may never be the same.

If you've got a Mimic Ready Anus, you're my newest best friend! o.O You people are really crazy you know that don't you?

I imagine the mimic-ready anus is for renders of politicians and preachers, who always talk out of their ass...

ROTFLMAO! I can think of one of those in particular but I won't name any names. o.O

rotflol

refunds are also just going out for Michiko, so add her to the list of infringements as well.